No wars in December, please. UK military sent home to save on heating costs.

[airborne_artist]

Army sent home for a month to save on barracks heating bills - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11278995/Army-sent-home-for-a-month-to-save-on-barracks-heating-bills.html)

"The measure is understood to have been put in place by the Ministry of Defence, at least in part to save on utility bills. Many of Britain’s Army barracks are outdated and inefficient, and the Army believes shutting them through most of December will help to meet tight Whitehall budgets. About 100 barracks around the country will be managed by a minimal number of staff providing basic security and answering telephones.

It is estimated that out of Britain’s fighting Army force of about 80,000 troops, only a few hundred will be on duty. Army barracks abroad in Germany and elsewhere, and training units in countries such as Kenya and Canada, will also close to all but skeleton staff. It is understood the Ministry of Defence in Whitehall will be run by a minimal number of people."

Still, those new carriers will be warm, I'm sure :ugh:

[NutLoose]

Why not convert all the unused grass areas into allotments, they can then grow vegetables to use in the messes, thus saving more money while keeping them warm and helping develop their trenching skills....

They may send these guys home to save heating etc, but one bets those remaining are probably scattered amongst all of the accomodation blocks, thus ensuring they all still need to be heated. You couldn't make it up.

[foxvc10]

How much is it going to cost to fix all the busted pipes?

Seem to remember that happened before....

[Whenurhappy]

Why not convert all the unused grass areas into allotments, they can then grow vegetables to use in the messes, thus saving more money while keeping them warm and helping develop their trenching skills....

NutLoose, NutLoose...you poor, naive fool. You don't don't grasp how support services work, do you?

The MOD would lease all the land at a peppercorn rental to a well-known FM company (Aspidexto) for, ooh, let's say, 30 years, in return for the right to supply exclusively vegetable to the Services, bill (of course) at above-RPI accelerated prices. The MOD, of course, would continue to pay for water, fertiliser, plant machinery and kitchens (as well as routine upgrades of all of the above). What could go wrong?

[BEagle]

New Year 1974 was very cold. I'd spent Christmas at home in Menorca, but had to be back at RAFC earlier than ideal due to New Years Day being a bank holiday for the first time in England, with no flights available. This was also the era of the '3 day week' which had come into effect on New Years Eve...and so I arrived back to find the whole place freezing cold as 'they' had decided to turn off the heating for the Christmas/New Year period. There was no catering in College Hall mess, so a chum who had also returned early (Wildpig) and I went into Sleaford to find something to eat. Next day, after a night buried in as many clothes as I could find, I drove around just to keep warm - but then the heating was restored later that afternoon.

Whereupon the condensation which had frozen in various parts of College Hall thawed and caused enormous damage to some very expensive décor as the walls streamed with damp. It was several days before the cold-soaked building was back to normal and the eventual cost of repairs was way more than keeping the heating ticking over would have cost......:rolleyes:

Penny wise, pound foolish!

[Wander00]

Happened in the early 80s too

[Sandy Parts]

This has happened every year for about the last 10 years if I recall correctly. Different levels of publicity given to it depending on level of warfare ongoing - I'm guessing we must be in a 'warfare-holiday' to use the MoD bizspeak! As an aside, loved the comment on the Bastion documentary last night about how the final stages of the drawdown were no longer the 'austerity period' but were re-named the 'expeditionary-period'. Always good to change the name - never mind the underlying issues...

[Pontius Navigator]

And 1947 IIRC:)

More recently is was SOP to close the computer network down. Having run continuously for 340 days it would take 10 days to get back online with the contractor coming out to repair it.

My final year I left it up. Went in post Christmas and it was working AOK.

[dctyke]

All very well however last time they did this at an army establishment near to me (ex lightning MU) all the civilian staff had to continue working thus the heating staying on....

[Just This Once...]

Apparently if the civil servants make an effort to come to work but find the doors locked then it is ok for them to have a day off too. Right now a whole load of key authorisations are being changed to 'uniformed personnel only' so that the civil servants have no possible way of getting in.

I really wish I was making this up.

[langleybaston]

same old, same old.

Brize Mess early winter 1997 .......... heating zilch.
meals taken rapidly or not at all, and in multilayered clothing.
ablutions freezing.
bar empty.

Rooms almost without exception with private purchase electric heater going full chat, microwave in good use ..........

Barking mad.

[VX275]

Apparently if the civil servants make an effort to come to work but find the doors locked then it is ok for them to have a day off too.
I remember being a Civil Servant stood outside my locked office at 0800 waiting for 'someone from the Guardroom' to turn up with the keys. This happened every Tuesday following a Bank Holiday when the RAF didn't expect to slope in until lunchtime(ish) and that included those who I'd been drinking with all weekend in the Mess.

[Wrathmonk]

Sandy Parts posted

the final stages of the drawdown were no longer the 'austerity period' but were re-named the 'expeditionary-period'....[SNIP]...never mind the underlying issues...

Apologies for the slight thread drift, but what amused me was the direction the Major gave next - direct from the Commander himself (I assume a 1*), all soldiers are to be reminded that they must change their underpants and socks!! Underlying issues indeed!

[Jimlad1]

"Apparently if the civil servants make an effort to come to work but find the doors locked then it is ok for them to have a day off too. "

Really? How strange that in fact the rules are actually completely different, but lets not let truth get in the way of a slagging off of the civil service.

[NutLoose]

Really? How strange that in fact the rules are actually completely different, but lets not let truth get in the way of a slagging off of the civil service.

Yep as jimlad says, it's incorrect, it is a week and trauma counselling is offered :p

[Just This Once...]

Really? How strange that in fact the rules are actually completely different, but lets not let truth get in the way of a slagging off of the civil service.

Bit sensitive tonight sweetheart; nobody slagged anybody off and the creative measure has been introduced to give the civil servants time off when their rules try to forbid it.

:rolleyes:

[Hangarshuffle]

To be honest I'm not surprised-MOD has often struggled to keep it all going. They used to switch the heating off onboard (sorry on the base) at RNAS Yeovilton in the Winters of 88, 89 and maybe 90 as I recall (I moved between Somerset farms, digs and onboard around this time) as I felt appropriate).
Used to make a warning pipe, "heatings going off this weekend to save cash" or words to that effect. Although we had paid for food and accomm in advance this didn't matter to anyone in charge.
A lot of people just PVR'd and went outside, as per standard.


Wonder if they do or did the same in HM Prisons?

[Stendec5]

Still, at least the Foreign Aid budget is going up again. Also, this fine and able government of Dave's is going to enshrine it in law as a permanent commitment.
That should warm the hearts of our armed forces.

[NutLoose]

I wouldn't mind aid if it was given as goods built and produced in the UK, that way the Government would be generating jobs and keeping companies going in producing the said aid, but simply giving wads of cash over that can be used to line someone's pocket and never gets used for the purpose it was intended is another thing. Far better it is given as credit that has to be spent in the UK PLC only.

[ValMORNA]

Sorry, NutLoose, but that is far too sensible idea to be adopted by government officials. No seat in Parliament for you!

[D'pirate]

Seem to recall that early on a Sunday in December was chosen to start a war quite effectively :ugh:

[Stendec5]

Seriously though. The Foreign Aid budget is about £12 billion +/-. The amount that Dave hands over to the EU yearly is about £11 billion +/- (plus an extra £800 millions recently on TOP of the eleven bil')
That's an eye watering £23 billion simply transfered out of the country at a time when the army are sent home to save on heating bills.
Am I living in a Monty Python sketch?

[NutLoose]

No, Monty Python was credible.

[skydiver69]

Seriously though. The Foreign Aid budget is about £12 billion +/-. The amount that Dave hands over to the EU yearly is about £11 billion +/- (plus an extra £800 millions recently on TOP of the eleven bil')
That's an eye watering £23 billion simply transferred out of the country at a time when the army are sent home to save on heating bills.
Am I living in a Monty Python sketch?

The police budget is around £14 billion per year as well.

[kintyred]

Thread Drift warning.

A Geography lecture at Uni on the subject of foreign aid still sticks in my mind. Foreign Aid is almost exclusively tied to buying goods and services from Britain with strict controls to ensure that the aid reaches the end user and bypasses corrupt officials.
On a personal note I think charity giving should be a personal decision rather than government imposed. All my charitable giving goes abroad (Sightsavers) as I believe it's important to meet basic human needs before improving the lot of poor people in a highly industrialised country like ours....so actually I approve of Foreign Aid.

[Jimlad1]

"Bit sensitive tonight sweetheart; nobody slagged anybody off and the creative measure has been introduced to give the civil servants time off when their rules try to forbid it."

Why should CS get free time off just because the mil have gone on leave?
Speak to a lot of CS and one thing that annoys them is when the Military try to shut a base down on block leave, without realising that plenty of CS have jobs to do, and don't want to be forced to take annual leave at that time. Mil can be forced to take block leave, CS can't (different T&C), and plenty of us don't want to have to take a full 2-3 weeks off over xmas, and instead use leave at a different time.

While there may be goodwill in trying to prevent them gaining access, actually if the work is not done, then all thats being done is preventing stuff happening which could, in a small way, help support the front line.

Bluntly, we're paying these CS to do a job, they have no entitlement to not being in the office unless they take leave, and there is a system in place to ensure that if they can't get into the office, they make arrangements to go to another place of work, rather than go home.

The problem is that in the Mils eye, all thats happening is people are seeing CS turn up and go home again, rather than what should be happening, which is them turning up and doing their job.

[tucumseh]

Mil can be forced to take block leave, CS can't (different T&C), and plenty of us don't want to have to take a full 2-3 weeks off over xmas, and instead use leave at a different time.
Jim, agree with your sentiments but enforced block leave is, or was, very common. Typically, 2 weeks in summer and 1 at Xmas.

Also, in my first staff job in London, my T&Cs stated I was not permitted to take leave for 2 months following publication of the Main Assumptions; that is, roughly mid Feb - mid Apr. Also, for 2 weeks when the Alternative Assumptions were issued in the Autumn. You will appreciate both periods were variable, so you couldn't book holidays in advance. No TOIL or OT, but in return MoD allowed a certain flexibility; for example, you were allowed to wander off during the day to sign on for Family Income Supplement. :(

[NutLoose]

I still think overseas aid should be spent getting the poor buggers sleeping rough off the streets of this supposed "First World Country" and address the issues behind having to have food kitchens in the UK. Once that is solved then by all means use it to help those less unfortunate abroad. But, I believe it should be a statutory right that everyone should have the opportunity of a roof over their heads and access to food and warmth in this Country. After all, without a fixed address, the poor souls are caught in the trap of no address, no job, and until that is rectified they simply cannot get out of that trap.

[ShotOne]

Why " no wars in December"?? Just because they aren't gathered in a particular building, all the servicemen are still there, fully trained and available to respond to any national emergency

[HTB]

SO


All where? In all likelihood they will have dispersed widely, don't think they all come from the same nearby town any more. Public transport over the 'festive' season, sparse, I would say (not everyone on low pay can afford a motor car), so recovery of meaningful numbers of bods could take some time.


In RAFG during the Cool War, we reckoned the best time for Ivan to make a move was after about 1800 on any Friday, or over Easter and Christmas leave periods.


Mister B

[Ogre]

Back in the 90's Kinloss got stood down a week early to save on heating and lighting, and we all thanked them very much for it.

A few years later there was a cold snap of -12 for a week, we were fine but we'd foolishly agreed to keep any eye on the house next but one as they were going home for Christmas. We'd agreed to do it on the condition they switched the water off and drained the pipes.

New Years day I nipped in to check everythnig was alright to find a river of water coming down the stairs, a frantic search for the stop cock followed by a call to the guardroom for a plumber then a stern phone call to the occupants mate to tell the occupant that he had water everywhere.

That was the first winter after they'd rebuilt a stack of MQs on Northside, and at least one of them was serious damaged by water when it would found that someone had skimped on the insulation.....

[ShotOne]

Sorry, HTB I don't buy that. Any serviceman without the initiative and resourcefulness to get themselves somehow; bus/hitchhike/ mates car/ ask Mummy, to where they're needed within an agreed timescale, frankly, isn't likely to be of much use in defending our nation.

Similar argument re. Frost protection. Considering the billions of £'s of highly complex equipment we have, is keeping some plumbing from freezing really such a big ask?

[HTB]

Oh that I could join you in your ideal world.


They'll find a way to RTB alright; just wouldn't put money on any degree of urgency in that recovery (especially with a couple of duty clerks valiantly ringing round the prime, secondary and tertiary contact numbers - even with a cascade system this can easily break down). Bus counts as public transport - we get one a week in my rural village, and it doesn't go where I want it to go; hitchhiking - wouldn't count on it in the depths of Winter; mate's car - might be going to Leeming when you want to go to Marham (and he might not want to go anywhere at all if he's a civilian).


I've seen the scenario on a relatively small scale (and listened to some imaginative excuses from late returners).


So, sorry that you don't buy that, but I don't buy that you don't buy my not buying that - and never pooh-pooh another man's pooh-pooh... (sorry, Blackadder)


Mister B

[gr4techie]

I remember being told one snowy winter a few years ago, you can go home on a weekend providing you WILL be back Monday 07:30. There's no defence for not being in work, look at the weather forecast before you leave and if theres a risk of you can't make it back due to snow and ice then don't go.

bus/hitchhike/ mates car/ ask Mummy
Does anyone still hitchhike today ? Good luck trying to get from South England to Lossiemouth.

[NutLoose]

New Years day I nipped in to check everythnig was alright to find a river of water coming down the stairs, a frantic search for the stop cock followed by a call to the guardroom for a plumber then a stern phone call to the occupants mate to tell the occupant that he had water everywhere.



Had similar, travelled 'Oop Norfh to visit my Mum over the Christmas period a couple of years back, there was a heavy frost and snow over the period, on return I found that the downstair toilet (which isn't heated) the water pipe had departed company from the joint in the cold and was standing proud by a few inches on an icicle... there was no spillage, so a quick visit to a local plumber store and some new fittings in hand I chipped the icicle off flush, fitted the new union and swages, tightened everything up, then heated the room which allowed me to unfreeze the water valve, several flushes to ensure no leaks, I turned the now turning valve off, ran the tap and flushed the toilet to empty the system, then lagged the pipes... total result and no spillage at all. :O

[ShotOne]

I'll ignore the pooh pooh, htb but in 2014 if someone's not contactable it's because they don't want to be contactable -and if you're telling us servicemen will respond to a recall in a national emergency with "imaginative excuses" that's pretty insulting.