New CP for Jetstar

[VH-Cheer Up]

Congratulations to Captain Georgina Sutton on her appointment as chief pilot of Jetstar.

Jetstar promotes Georgina Sutton as its first female chief pilot (http://www.theage.com.au/business/-11zd47.html)

[Wally Mk2]

God another M/T kitchen:E

Wmk2

[Duck Pilot]

Great news, the world (and industry) needs more ladies in the top jobs.

I don't know Georgina, although I know a few people who have worked with her and they speak very highly of her.

Redsnail, about time you come back down here to take one of these top jobs!

We need more women in aviation.

[noip]

I think Georgina is a good choice.

If you are straight with her, she will be straight with you.

N

[toolish]

there is a difference between being a CP and Fleet Manager.
Lets hope she doesn't get to influenced by commercial like her predecessors

[CaptCloudbuster]

She has previously worked under one of the best Leaders in a CP role at AO CNS Capt Peter Quinn. So she has had the best of example upon which to emulate herself.

He was that rare combination of someone in a structural leadership role who commanded respect through his integrity and actions. Just one example of the calibre of the man was his insistence on being rostered on every Xmas and New Years Morning for the early morning departure CNS/OOL.

I've heard reports of B767 Fleet Capt Sutton regurgitating the kool aid to persons who knew her in her former iteration as a brilliant line Capt in AO.

Time will certainly tell but IMHO in order to climb the greasy pole in QF these days one must behave a certain way.

[Desert Flower]

My goodness - she has come a long way from her days of flying scenics at Wilpena Pound then later RPT for Augusta Airways.

DF.

[triadic]

And at Air North in DRW .... Well done!:D:D

[Australopithecus]

Will she be required to return to mainline after three years? :confused:

[Derfred]

That's gold!

[ramius315]

Succession planning.

No need to return to Mainline after 3 years, she'll be the Chief Pilot OF Mainline in 3 years when JQ is re-badged.

:8

[The Green Goblin]

In three years she will be at mainline. Jetstar will be bigger and boast that title.

[correcting]

Did such a good job winding up the 767 fleet, it is now time for her to do the same at the one time Amazing business ;)

[Popgun]

She already has a new nick name.

Mrs Doubtfire.

:}:}:}

PG

[Madame Bandit]

Oh, so does that mean there has not been any "doubt" in regards to the current bunch of incompetent recalcitrant swinging dicks? :ugh::ugh:

[Keg]

I didn't always agree with Georgina and we had our share of spats over a myriad of issues but she always had my respect as a person. She'll succeed or not on her ability and no doubt nicknames may well come from that but sexist nicknames like Mrs Doubtfire are appalling.

[Madame Bandit]

Well. Hopefully she brings a bunch of QF guys and gals over there and completely obliterates the Ansett cartel. The name calling obviously comes from the current mismanagement vermin who are currently arranging the band for one final "auld lang syne" which was sung out in 2001.

[C441]

She already has a new nick name.
Mrs Doubtfire.

Given Georgina's previous experiences (particularly her pre-airline career), I don't think a simple nickname will bother her too much.

[Lookleft]

Well. Hopefully she brings a bunch of QF guys and gals over there and completely obliterates the Ansett cartel. The name calling obviously comes from the current mismanagement vermin who are currently arranging the band for one final "auld lang syne" which was sung out in 2001.

Lets not forget that one of the senior Ansett managers was an ex-walloper who had been a Fleet Manager with a large iconic national carrier. His performance and people management skills was largely responsible for CASAs response to what should have been a negotiated solution. BTW Ms Sutton does not as yet have CP approval from CASA so MR will stay in the job until she does. In the meantime she is off to get her 787 endorsement.

[RFN]

While gaining the required "management" experience that CASA requires for this role..

[Mstr Caution]

787 Endorsement?

Surely with decades of Boeing time & such a large Airbus Fleet to manage.

Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to get an A320 endorsement?

Easier to keep current on Domestic sectors
Easier to manage & understand the issues that the majority of her pilots face.
Expand the skill set to cover both Airbus & Boeing

I would have thought there was enough Boeing Widebody time in the logbook.

[Lookleft]

I would have thought there was enough Boeing Widebody time in the logbook.

But to be the QF CP having significant 787 time will be a distinct advantage over any other internal candidate. You don't think being Jetstar CP is to be the pinnacle of a stellar career?

[Mstr Caution]

Can someone tell me how many female 787 Captains there are at JQ?

[Ollie Onion]

Must admit to being very disappointed in her decision to go for a 787 endorsement. She already has heavy Boeing experience, the vast majority of pilots she is representing are A320 pilots. Doing her airbus endorsement would give her exposure to:

External type rating providers
Short haul network with true low cost elements (25 min turnarounds)
Some 'interesting checkies
Much easier to get out of the office to do a days flying.

Also I have heard that J* are running a 'specially' organised course for her. So much for cost cutting.

[Eastmoore]

Not a good move at all.

Most of JQ pilots fly Airbus.

Looks like they have circumvented the seniority system to employ a 787 direct entry captain if she doesn't get CP approval.

How can a Boeing pilot talk to an Airbus pilot about Airbus. Those who have flown both will understand.

Unlike JQ as well they usually go for the cheap option.

:ugh:

[Iron Bar]

Ummmm I think it's simpler and cheaper to endorse an experienced 76 pilot onto the 78, than a non Airbus rated pilot onto 320/330?

[Snakecharma]

There isn't a lot to the casa chief pilot approval for high capacity operators such as jetstar.

The focus is on making sure the person is an appropriate person and they have the appropriate support systems in place.

[Ollie Onion]

Iron Bar, nope, she is doing the FULL 787 endorsement. My comment was more about the fact they are running a non scheduled course specially so the new CP can be endorsed. Surely the fact that she doesn't have A320 experience would push Jetstar towards rating her on that aircraft.

[Iron Bar]

Ah, ok fair enough. Who knows, probably small stuff in the bigger picture. JQ flight ops have enthusiastically spent stacks more money before, for much less result.

[Snakecharma]

Every course is unscheduled until they schedule it.

Sounds like a daft statement, but type rating courses are scheduled for when they need them, they aren't like the number 8 bus that comes past at the same time each day.

I wouldn't read anything into the fact they they have scheduled a 787 course for her. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if she does an airbus course as well.

In any event I think you would find it will be much harder for her - or any other person in her position - to actually concentrate on the type rating course as she will be still doing some tasks associated with her management role. This will also impact on her ability to do any line training (I.e. I would think it likely that the line training will be disjointed) and any consolidation will be limited, so it will be quite difficult from that perspective.

Just as a side comment, it seems that plenty of people are happy to bag out management pilots, be they jetstar, Qantas, virgin or wherever. There are exceptions to the following statement, but most management pilots are, in my opinion, doing their best to juggle all the competing priorities and and do not go out of the way to screw over their respective pilot groups. Many are happy to bag them out, far fewer are prepared to put their hand up to offer themselves as a viable alternative

[Lookleft]

That's all true SC but most courses are scheduled months in advance. Your analogy is correct in that the GS course is like the number 8 bus going past.

I also agree with your statement about the majority of management pilots. The pilots I was always suspicious of were those who made a big noise in the Union then at the first opportunity went to management and those who made a big noise about wanting "Their Command!"and taking the first management spot that came along without wanting to spend much actual time in the LHS.

[Mstr Caution]

There isn't a lot to the casa chief pilot approval for high capacity operators such as jetstar.

Are you serious as Snakecharma?

If your statement was correct the CP to be, would already hold the CP approval.

Isn't MR hanging around a little longer than planned as CP?

[Capt Fathom]

Does it really matter what type she flies?

The 787 may have been part of the deal.

She has given up a secure position at Qantas to join another airline in the perilous position of Chief Pliot.

A Gutsy decision! Good luck to her.

[Part 121]

To me the 787 makes sense from a technical and ease standpoint. If the troops dont like it then stiff, she's not there to be popular.

If the nominee is 'light' on relevant experience, I would expect CASA to require some form of mitigation, i.e. a deputy with extensive Airbus experience.

Why would anyone think she has resigned from QF, or is even emplyoed by JQ?

Now, as for rumours, is there any truth to the one about a certain jump seat refusal?

[cloudsurfng]

Sha also handled the recent RIN very well. Something worth keeping in mind.

[International Trader]

A perilous mission without a parachute.......... doubt it.
Think of all that Super at risk.

[OzSync]

I tend to agree with the above.

An A320 endorsement would have made far more sense for so many reasons.

Perhaps she made it a condition before signing up. Who knows.

[BPA]

Comparison to Virgin;

General Manager Flight Operations flies the B737
CP Domestic flies the Embraer 190
Deputy CP domestic flies the B737
CP International (B777 and B737) flies the B777
Deputy CP International flies the B777

The current GMFO was the previous CP International and flew the B777, however when he moved to the GMFO he decided it was more appropriate to return to the B737 as it makes up the majority of the fleet plus it's far easier to fit domestic flying in around the office days.

[4Greens]

As management pilot I switched to a short haul aircraft as I could keep in practice without being too long away from the office.

[C441]

Don't Jetstar have Fleet managers who report to the Chief Pilot?

The current Qantas Chief Pilot is an occasional A-380 Captain and, from memory, has never flown the 744 or A-330. Does that matter?

The previous Qantas Chief Pilot did not fly anything for about 4 years before he relinquished the position.

It seems to me the Chief Pilot's role is largely regulatory these days and it's up to the individual Fleet Manager and his/her administrative staff to keep track of the specific issues relating to any one fleet.

[A320 Flyer]

She couldn't possibly be any more out of touch than MR.... Seems to me that the CP role at JQ is all about being a yes man/ woman who will tow Carla's line

[Madame Bandit]

Well sort of. Good ol WINEo is on a self mission of greed and financial gain at the expense of all and sundry. It is one garbage of a "human being". One must pay the boat bills somehow. And..."it" actually would be the yes man to bogan ears whose parents were no doubt brother and sister, not Carla.

[ratpoison]

Good ol WINEo is on a self mission of greed and financial gain
Yes well, the decent "folk" that wore the blue shirt could not stand the snake excrement, as well as the Singa's locals. But that's probably for a separate post in itself. :confused:

Anyway, what's happening over there? It appears as though the "girl" may not make it, as a particular "regulator" (for want of a better word:ugh::ugh:) is having second and third thoughts for probably good reasons.

Carla may also be on the hit list for pre-planning over and around certain heads and recommending her. :cool:

[Led Zeppelin]

The certain "Regulator" is indeed not happy with this nomination with fourth and fifth reservations.

Not only Carla, but the other one will regret this absurd situation where the nominee can't hold any of the required delegations:confused:

They will be scrambling to surround her with people who can exercise the required functions of a CP.

What a pathetic joke this is:mad:

[unseen]

What delegations are the issue?

[sid-star]

It is normal customary practice to talk to your regulator before appointing a post holder. It saves a lot of time and possibly wasted effort for all concerned. I think it's called due diligence.

[neville_nobody]

It is normal customary practice to talk to your regulator before appointing a post holder. It saves a lot of time and possibly wasted effort for all concerned. I think it's called due diligence.

Except you usually don't announce the candidate until AFTER that is done. No point announcing to the world your CP appointment only for the regulator to find them unsuitable. :rolleyes:

[V-Jet]

NN - Disagree with you. The likes of OW would have seen that as a triumph. The publicity was generated for a Female CP and that was the purpose (qualifications aside and nothing against the person involved) of the announcement. Whether a Female CP happens or not isn't really relevant, as with most things Qantas/J* its the press coverage that is object of the exercise.

There won't be a half page Press Release saying there isn't going to be a Female CP - I don't think they care, they've already milked it - someone is in line for a bonus, well done!

Would have expected you to know that!!:):)

[Capt Fathom]

You guys really think someone would resign from an airline, to take up a position with another, if that position was not guaranteed?
You'd want to have a pretty good nest egg up your sleeve!

[Lookleft]

You guys really think someone would resign from an airline, to take up a position with another, if that position was not guaranteed

What makes you think she has resigned from QF? Even Jane and David don't work for Jetstar they are still paid by the mothership. Have a look at the Jetstar seniority list and you will still find the Qlink CP with a number. Watch what happens when that number is eligible for a 787 Command.

[Dale Hardale]

Disagree with you NN,

If what you say is true, there is a gross dereliction of duty and responsibility. This is not an advertising exercise, but a search for someone who actually has all of the qualifications to do the job (and I mean absolutely no disrespect to the selected person).

It is indeed good policy to sound out the regulator before any appointment is made public.

This process has been a rush of blood to the head of a few people who should have known better.

But remember, this is Jetstar and a hallmark and further example of many "odd" things this outfit does.

[Snakecharma]

I think some of you people are blowing up nothing into something.

The head of flight operations doesn't need to be a check pilot, so doesn't need any delegations from that perspective. They need to be a fit and proper person and know how their management structure works - that is about it.

Casa needs to know that the person is going to do the right thing and not be a puppet, but don't forget the designated CEO is also the "responsible person" so the HOFO Is only one part of the accountability chain.

I would think that it will happen when it happens. It was never going to happen over Christmas and new year.

[Ollie Onion]

"going to do the right thing and not be a puppet", that is the funniest thing I have seen. A 'puppet' is exactly what the current chief pilot is.

[busdriver007]

Mrs Doubtfire may have good intentions but the money will soon sway her to just toe the line! History will be your guide! Nothing is going to change in the Qantas Group.

[smug basher]

Boy, some people will cling to '89 in every possible way.

[Willie Nelson]

To Popgun and busdriver007 and anyone else who chooses to run a character assassination based upon a woman's appearance without knowing of her skills or strength of character as a professional aviator, you only diminish yourselves.

While you sit on your computer late at night chucking rocks at your betters, Georgina Sutton has been building her career and leaving a legacy for her industry that in time will have real men and women judge on its professional merits not her appearance.

Have you ever had a go at any other male chief pilot based upon their appearance. Let's be clear none of Georgina's predecessors have been particularly attractive and yet in your world they will sink or swim based upon nothing to do with their appearance.

Your daughters, wives, sisters and mothers would be ashamed of you. So am I. Crawl back in your caves and take your cheap shot pejorative nicknames with you.

The nickname I refer to has been used twice on this thread and only Keg had the balls to call Bull$#!t. To the rest of you that let it slip through to the keeper, grow a pair and speak up for the girls and women in you lives, lest they become victims to this quiet insidious filth that serves nobody.

[IsDon]

The nickname I refer to has been used twice on this thread and only Keg had the balls to call Bull$#!t. To the rest of you that let it slip through to the keeper, grow a pair and speak up for the girls and women in you lives, lest they become victims to this quiet insidious filth that serves nobody.

I call BS too.

I have also butted heads with Georgina over a few issues, but I was one of the first to congratulate her on her appointment. She was certainly not the best boss I've worked for, but she was far from the worst. Her gender, sexual preference and appearance are not relavent to the way she does her job, just as the same factors are not relavent to the way we do ours.

Those calling names, and hiding behind pseudonyms are just spineless arseh0les.

[Des Dimona]

Her gender, sexual preference and appearance are not relavent to the way she does her job.....

Absolutely correct and I agree 100% :ok:, but her qualifications sure as hell are relevant.

Her appointment reeked of another agenda rather than the qualifications that should have been the true test of selection to this position.

Go figure.

[IsDon]

Her appointment reeked of another agenda rather than the qualifications that should have been the true test of selection to this position.

Then please all stick to the facts rather than name calling.

She put in her CV, did an interview and put forward her case for why she should be appointed. If she was given the job, it's clearly not her fault if CASA decides she is not qualified. It is clearly the fault of those who appointed her for not doing their homework in the first place. Probably some overpaid HR parasite.

Or maybe it's CASA being incompetent twits. Not as if they don't have form of incompetence and inconsistency in these areas.

[Con Catenator]

It would not have been "some overpaid HR parasite".

There would have been 2 people who ultimately made the final decision. I'll leave you to work out who they were.

[lotsta]

Why don't you wait and give her a chance before writing her off? Sheesh you JQ guys are just so sensitive!

[Hoofharted]

The GMFO at NAA holds an F100 rating (gained months after taking up the position) and does not fly at all. The DMFO has not flown for more than 6 months and it does not appear that he will for the next 6 months. It is rumored that the yet to be announced replacement GMFO has not flown a jet at all or had any experience flying within WA and the peculiarities of FIFO ops.

What both the current and replacement (rumored) GMFO have in common is that they are both the product of long Qantas indoctrination. Read into that what you will :hmm:

[LeadSled]

Folks,

I have known Georgina since she first joined Qantas, she is a first class operator, with a good track record.

Given her CV, I fail see what CASA qualifications she does not have for the job.

Would some of you in the know care to enlighten us!!

Tootle pip!!

[Pinky the pilot]

I really wasn't going to comment as I have never progressed to the exalted heights of the big Jets but given some of the recent posts....

I first met Georgina when she was still a member of the South Australian Police Force and was doing a Night VMC with the same Flying School I attended. And I have been kept aware of her progression through the ranks by fellow members of the "club' (it really felt like that at times, and an exclusive one at that:=) that was that particular Flying School.

So I endorse LeadSled's remarks 100%!
she is a first class operator, with a good track record.

Given her CV, I fail see what CASA qualifications she does not have for the job.


Good luck 'Georgie Girl.':ok:

[Strewth]

There would have been 2 people who ultimately made the final decision. I'll leave you to work out who they were.

Appears the regulator has called them on it.

I have known Georgina since she first joined Qantas, she is a first class operator, with a good track record.

One of many I expect, frankly this is not in question. What is, it would appear is the decision making process itself.

[Flava Saver]

Quit the bleeding heart emotion some of you. She applied. She was anointed. And she wasn't approved. So many appear shocked. Due process. Next. :rolleyes:

[LeadSled]

And she wasn't approvedFlava Saver,

Is that so! I presume you mean she was not approved by CASA. Do you actually have proof of that?? Or is it your wishful thinking?? What "CASA due process" do you think she failed??

CASA "due process" is usually nothing of the kind.

That would be an extraordinary move by CASA, to refuse to approve a company nominee of a major airline, for such a position, given that the "CASA required qualifications" are largely subjective.

We shall see what the future holds, she is held in very high regard by the parent company of Jetstar, and in my personal opinion, was an excellent choice ---- that would have been ticked off by the highest levels of Qantas management and the QANTAS Board.

Tootle pip!!

[Part 121]

Is this about culture or capability?

Would Qantas pilots readily accept an outsider as a CP, Say EK? What if they were JQ? :O

I suspect you would see similar rumblings

[Con Catenator]

Flava's on the money,

Emotive aero club assessments are hardly a valid endorsement.

Let's see whether she actually does the job of the current CP or is CP by name only, with others having to do the functions of the position.

If it's the latter, then why was the appointment made ?

[Iron Bar]

The "job" of the current Chief Pilot? Surely you jest?

[RFN]

Given the "months..." that it'll take for her 787 endorsement, her "time..." near the present CP's desk will certainly help her "eventually..." get CASA accreditation. Too many ego's riding on it..!

[Capt Fathom]

I've never seen so much angst over the appointment of a Chief Pilot before. Why are people here getting so worked up! :confused:

[C441]

Would Qantas pilots readily accept an outsider as a CP, Say EK? What if they were JQ?

I could be wrong, but the Chief Pilot position is now so removed from the average line pilot both physically and practically, that I don't think many really care who holds that almost ceremonial position.

[DirectAnywhere]

I don't think many really care who holds that almost ceremonial position.

Agreed. I don't even know who the Chief Pilot is at QF these days, or how many there are, or who my direct manager is. There are so many acronyms these days, base managers, HOBOs, HOFOs, Chief Pilots, managers etc. I have no idea who any of them are or what their role is.

Never had anything to do with Georgina but all of her pilots say good things about her, particularly during the RIN, as opposed to other managers who disappeared on leave for weeks. :mad:

[Prince Niccolo M]

What are the mandatory prerequisites for appointment as Head of Flying Operations of any high capacity airline?

CAO 82.5 operations do not require a Chief Pilot per se so it is hard to imagine the basis on which she might not satisfy CASA, particularly looking at the standards and experience of those that they have anointed previously...

Is that good old Blue Shirt fanatic Mad Max still surviving in CASA ML? :E