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Matari
3rd Dec 2014, 01:02
Let's see who hops aboard this one. My guess is not many... but why would that be?

Well for starters, this tragic event happened in Germany, not, say, Ohio. Second, the brutal murder was committed with a bat, and not a gun. And finally, the demographics involved would reveal some troubling aspects of German minorities and assimilation, and that subject just won't fly when we have Ferguson to talk about.

But heaven forbid, if this sad event had happened in the US, all the PPruners who surf for murder porn would have made the post count climb higher than a European climbing on his high horse.

German woman killed trying to help harassed girls - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/German-woman-killed-trying-to-help-harassed-girls/articleshow/45342344.cms)

Romeo Oscar Golf
3rd Dec 2014, 01:14
A terrible tragedy for all concerned except the Serbian attacker. I trust he gets the full force of indignant justice.
However not something to try and make petty political and personal points from. You're a wind up merchant and total pratt Matari.

Dushan
3rd Dec 2014, 01:22
First of all Matari let me correct on a couple of things here.

Number one, it is American's fault. It happens in a MacDonald's restaurant. Need I say more?

Two, Serbs and Turks. How did you think it was going to end? Serbs still celebrate their defeat from the Turks in 1389 and are still getting revenge for 500 years of Turkish occupation. What do you expect from people like that? Twisted doesn't even begin to describe them.

I'm just not sure how Kiwis, sheep, and North Korean business etiquette are going to be worked into all of this.

brickhistory
3rd Dec 2014, 01:27
Hey! You are completely out of bounds.

To take an isolated, if tragic, event and try to paint everyone within that country with the same brush?!

Shootings?

Racism?

Abject barbarism?

It is completely different if it happens in Europe.

I mean, really...





Or it could be that nobody, including them, cares. So stultified and jaded that atrocities in the Old World are literally thousands of years in the making.

arcniz
3rd Dec 2014, 01:32
I'm just not sure how Kiwis, sheep, and North Korean business etiquette are going to be worked into all of this

Certain Influential North Koreans negotiate hard but ultimately pay big for introductions to certain NZ sheep.

Matari
3rd Dec 2014, 01:32
Full force of indignant justice? The Germans have charged him with manslaughter (which if I can believe what I read on these boards is something less than murder).

And will the Turks demand extradition of the Serb for the crime committed against a Turk? It all relates, right? Is it bumpy in the back there? These shocks are pretty worn out.

con-pilot
3rd Dec 2014, 01:34
He is in police custody and is under probe for manslaughter and causing grievous bodily harm.


My goodness, manslaughter and grievous bodily harm. I'm very sure he will get at least six months in prison for that. Any more would cause him to have grievous mental damage.

Poor lad, I’m sure pressure from American TV shows caused him to commit this crime. Not his fault at all.

Dushan
3rd Dec 2014, 01:44
I hope he gets Internet and TV while I the stalag, or can I say that.

pigboat
3rd Dec 2014, 01:54
By golly, being beaten to death with a baseball bat is about as grievous as bodily harm can get I reckon.

Gordy
3rd Dec 2014, 02:50
Hmmmm.... Is there not a "Turkish" connection in the Montana case.....

It is a conspiracy I tell ya....the world is against us......

Krystal n chips
3rd Dec 2014, 06:13
And the number of baseball bat related deaths in Europe is ?.....

However, whilst the main point of the article is the bravery of the young lady concerned.....this has, not unexpectedly escaped the notice of our American fruitloops, here's another young lady of similar stature....


Brutal attack of goths Robert Maltby and Sophie Lancaster unite supporters around the world | UK news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/03/ukcrime.sophielancaster)

MagnusP
3rd Dec 2014, 07:01
And the number of baseball related deaths in Europe is ?.....

A very cursory search indicates at least 3 baseball bat murders in the UK alone in the past 2 years. I won't pander to your idleness by searching the statistics for other European countries. You may also wish to read about Karen Aim, murdered with a baseball bat in New Zealand.

bcgallacher
3rd Dec 2014, 07:06
Brickhistory it is different in Europe - as you say it is an isolated event, in the USA it would not even make the news as brutal killings with a racial aspect seem to be a fairly frequent occurrence. The homicide rate in the USA is almost 5 times that in the UK for example.

chuks
3rd Dec 2014, 08:08
There's a movement here to try and get more people to intervene when they witness something happen, asking for Zivilcourage, exactly what this unfortunate woman exhibited.

My daughter became involved in this movement when neo-Nazis were proselytizing outside her Gymnasium, in fact. It's nothing to make fun of. We all went on marches, with neo-Nazi thugs on the sidelines glowering at us and taking our pictures.

The woman died after falling back and striking her head on the pavement. That's probably why it's a charge of manslaughter and not murder. On the other hand, one reads of people fatally stabbing the hell out of someone with an assumption on the part of the prosecution that, well, they didn't really mean to kill the victim.

German justice can come off as a bit wishy-washy sometimes; it's much more focused on rehabilitation than on retribution. We had a murder here in the village, when the minor who killed a playmate was given a closed trial, outcome not known, and then a new identity. He's out there somewhere now, either rehabilitated or else waiting to kill again.

meadowrun
3rd Dec 2014, 08:13
I once had a VW Super-beetle. I was quite outraged when one day the engine caught fire.

Fliegenmong
3rd Dec 2014, 08:40
I once had a VW Super-beetle. I was quite outraged when one day the engine caught fire.

Yes, I remember about 35 years ago 4 women burnt to death following a VW beetle engine fire, happened about 30km from here...although I never knew them, and this way before road side 'Shrines', I still think of them whenever I drive up that hill.....:(

However not something to try and make petty political and personal points from

Agreed

Lord Spandex Masher
3rd Dec 2014, 10:27
Let's see who hops aboard this one. My guess is not many... but why would that be?



It could well be that most regular contributors, at least on this side of the Atlantic, are not into petty point scoring over the death of a young woman.

Matari
3rd Dec 2014, 10:32
Page after page in this forum is filled with murder porn stories culled from US news outlets and websites, grandstanding discussions about shoddy police procedures, cowboy behavior, indictments of the grand jury system, federal vs. state law, T-tail statistics bandied about .... all under the false pretense of caring about poor, oppressed victims in the US.

The only thing missing is any sense of irony.

Bronx
3rd Dec 2014, 10:39
The only thing missing is one member of the team.

You 21:02
Dushan 21:22
brickhistory 21:27
con-pilot 21:34

Four out of five in 32 minutes.

Did BenThere get delayed? :confused:

Lord Spandex Masher
3rd Dec 2014, 10:42
And you posted your own little piece of murder porn for what reason?

Fliegenmong
3rd Dec 2014, 11:20
The only thing missing is one member of the team.

You 21:02
Dushan 21:22
brickhistory 21:27
con-pilot 21:34

Four out of five in 32 minutes.

Did BenThere get delayed?

BRONX!! There is no 'Team'! You're as misguided as that John Hill Chap......please keep up! :p

Matari
3rd Dec 2014, 11:48
For what reason? Why, to get your and others' learned input on the German legal system, to better understand the tension within minority communities in Germany, and to discuss the weapon used in this tragic case.

Let's hear it, Lord Spandex. You've had an awful lot to say about the US. This thread is about Germany, much closer to your home. What do you think of the charge of manslaughter? The poor girl was brutally attacked, but because the fatal blow was apparently suffered when she hit the ground, the charge is only manslaughter. How would you do it in the UK? What would the Crown Prosecutor say?

Boudreaux Bob
3rd Dec 2014, 11:55
ll under the false pretense of caring about poor, oppressed victims in the US.

There does seem to be a bit of confusion over the definition of "Victim".

Most of us see the Perp as the One who does the Criminal Act that kicks off all the fuss and the One that is harmed by that initial criminal act to be the "Victim".

Lord Spandex Masher
3rd Dec 2014, 12:01
You've come to Pprune to gain insight into tension between racial minorities in Germany? Really, you're just stirring.

I'll hold my own council in this case though, thanks.

Maybe you'd get a better response if your opening post had been less antagonistic.

Fliegenmong
3rd Dec 2014, 12:05
LSP..... suspect the opening post was intentionally antagonistic, suspect it works as an 'Invite'.... :hmm:

Stanwell
3rd Dec 2014, 12:53
C'mon, Fliegs.
Bronx may just have a point there.

As a casual observer, I've noticed a similar pattern on other threads - OK?

What's that phrase... "The usual suspects", I think.

chuks
3rd Dec 2014, 13:04
I suppose that Matari wants to point out that a killing in the States attracts more interest than a killing in Germany.

The main difference seems to be that the young woman who died in Germany was killed by a young man she had been protecting two young girls from; she may have died because of her good deed. The young man who died in Montana, however, was shot after doing something wrong; he may have died because of his bad deed, if you will.

There's not much to mull over when it comes to the death of a good Samaritan, because there's no need to find a balance between the good deed and the undeserved death; that's just good versus evil, a cliché.

The death of this young German man though, that might be considered bad versus worse. It's wrong of course, to steal stuff, even just a beer from an unlocked garage, but might it be far worse to kill someone for doing that, even with the law somewhat on your side? That seems to be what the court shall have to decide.

There's a conflict of cultures in both incidents. Germans of the old generation tend to avoid trouble, even when that means not helping someone in distress. There's an attempt now to change this, to expect people to speak up, even to act, as this woman did. People may draw the wrong lesson from this, that it's a mistake to step in, to put yourself at any risk. So perhaps the dead woman gets a medal ....

Shooting someone is right out there on the edge of what is an imaginable act, for the average German, but it's part of everyday life in the States. The interesting combination of "bad versus worse," and this deep cultural difference when it comes to the use of firearms might be what makes the death of the German in the States so much more interesting than the death of the woman in Germany.

I expect that the trial in Montana will be back at the front of the news tomorrow and through to its end, but for today the focus is on this woman, a dead heroine, and her funeral.

brickhistory
3rd Dec 2014, 14:35
But not here.

Then when such barbarism is pointed out, the "poor form" police suddenly make an appearance.

Nothing hypocritical about that sort of reaction from those who so like to criticise America/Americans?

It is obvious "they don't like it up 'em." Too bad. We 'Muricans are usually better armed and better shots.

Is it too much to point out that the Holier Than Thou High Horse Brigade are doing so via an American company?

Ironic, innit?






(full respect to Danny for the idea and building the concept. I hope he and whomever else takes gold infused baths with the money they made by selling)

flydive1
3rd Dec 2014, 16:32
https://www.change.org/p/joachim-gauck-verleihen-sie-tugce-das-bundesverdienstkreuz-f%C3%BCr-ihre-zivilcourage

Lonewolf_50
3rd Dec 2014, 16:41
A terrible tragedy for all concerned except the Serbian attacker. I trust he gets the full force of indignant justice.
However not something to try and make petty political and personal points from. You're a wind up merchant and total pratt Matari.
Maybe, ROG, playing the ball rather than the man would further the attempts at conversation.

flydive1
3rd Dec 2014, 17:02
. Second, the brutal murder was committed with a bat, and not a gun.

Do not know where the bat info comes from.

All the report I've seen talk about a punch.

Here the video

Tugce: Beweis-Video zeigt, was in der Nacht wirklich geschah - News Inland - Bild.de (http://www.bild.de/news/inland/totschlag/tugce-fall-das-beweis-video-38781816.bild.html)

Krystal n chips
3rd Dec 2014, 17:10
" A very cursory search indicates at least 3 baseball bat murders in the UK alone in the past 2 years. I won't pander to your idleness by searching the statistics for other European countries. You may also wish to read about Karen Aim, murdered with a baseball bat in New Zealand.

That's terribly gracious of you....I, in turn, won't pander to your inability to understand the term....in comparison to which.

It's amusing to read the justification for not being critical of any aspect or topic that may be perceived as anti-American, by some, subjective / objective criticism ( and thus valid ) by others is the fact the site is based, in America.

You might as well apply that deluded logic to any website, hosted in any country, in the world.

Lord Spandex Masher
3rd Dec 2014, 17:11
Maybe, ROG, playing the ball rather than the man would further the attempts at conversation.

Maybe not starting the thread the way it was started would have the same effect and not elicit such responses.

Jus' sayin'

Lonewolf_50
3rd Dec 2014, 17:14
LSM, you and I have demonstrated that we can disagree with one another without personal attacks, have we not?

If you think Matari was trolling -- which is as likely as not -- does one need to make a personal attack in order to poke fun at or criticize a troll, or an attempted troll?

No.

For example, your response, about posting murder porn.

No personal attack involved, point made.

radeng
3rd Dec 2014, 18:08
Brick

>We 'Muricans are usually better armed and better shots.<

The pastor who shot the intruder wasn't that good a shot. Neither was the woman on Thanksgiving Day - although she did hit him in the stomach. The perps were still alive afterwards......

To my mind (being a woolly minded, sandal wearing, tree hugging liberal), a good intruder is a DEAD intruder.

Saves the taxpayers money......although the county should pay for the bullet(s) or shot gun cartridge(s).