IFR Rating Experiences?!

[alex79]

Hi

I'm about to start my IFR rating, working on the theory at the moment and was thinking ...

So I know that it takes roughly 40h of dual instruction (my goal is Private and SE), half of it in the sim. But what I would like to from from you, how many flights/sim sessions did you do. Is it better to fly shorter but more often or do fewer flights but 3h long? Or whatever you feel like?

If anyone did the the rating part time, is it realistic to do 2 flights a weekend (ie. one on SAT, one of SUN) ?

Thanks for your comments!

[skkm]

Your time estimate sounds about right –*I did 40.1 hours' IFR training before my MECIR flight test (not counting ME endorsement training), split about 60:40 aeroplane:synthetic trainer, in 23 sorties of which 8 were in the aeroplane.

[50 50]

The length of sorties will depend on which aids you require, and your distance from them. I.E if the nearest VOR is 120nm away then the flight will be a long one.

I suggest you look at the type of aircraft you will be flying after your rating, which instruments it is equipped with, and the approaches available at some of your intended destinations. Remember, private IFR you can nominate which aids you want to be endorsed on.

RNAV/GNSS approaches are everywhere (almost) but unless you are flying into some serious aerodromes, or military, then ILS is probably a waste of your money.

I did the MECIR part time, and as long as funds are available 2 flights in a weekend is certainly do-able.

[Ultralights]

find an instructor that will take you in actual IMC conditions..

[Howard Hughes]

find an instructor that will take you in actual IMC conditions..
I second that, best advice ever! :ok:

[Bankstown Boy]

Yeah, but then you just end up complaining about all the blue sky!

I've always HATED the 'hood' ... So what happens every renewal?

100% cavok and deep blue skies!

You can't win!

[Homesick-Angel]

And if your in Vic, you can do navs with lots of short legs aid to aid / approach to approach etc and then mix it up with a longer leg NAV if you want. The short legs are good to keep you under pressure.

When you start, Getting your process in order can be the biggest challenge and staying in front of the aircraft. Also your head can go a bit mushy after a couple of hours under the hood particularly at this time of the year with thermals and heat etc. 2.5 hours a pop may well do you until you build a bit more experience.

Do heaps of extra sim if you can get into one cheap.

Use the little IFR nav trainers as well available for desktop or tablet etc.

Definitely get into real IMC if you can find it..

Have fun.. flying IFR is the ducks nuts..

[Atlas Shrugged]

find an instructor that will take you in actual IMC conditions..

I second that, best advice ever!

PPrune needs a "Like"button! :ok:

[Capt Fathom]

actual IMC conditions

Plenty of Big Cu's around at this time of year...:uhoh:

[Bankstown Boy]

I am waaaay too much of a wuss to want find IMC in the inside of a rully big Cu.

I want IMC, not unusual attitude training:)

[Howard Hughes]

Plenty of Big Cu's around at this time of year...
Ya don't learn weather avoidance in VMC! And let's face it, that's what it's all about! :ok:

[Nose_Wheel]

Three quarters through mine at the moment and have done a couple of longer navs. One from Melbourne to Adelaide! Did plenty of approaches on the way there and back. Had to divert due to storms over Adelaide all in all a really good learning exercise. Going to do a few shorter exercises in the next week and maybe a long nav up north to finish it off before a pre test.

I would suggest finding an instructor that will take you into imc and make you hand fly it for the most part. AP is good on long sectors. But if you get the chance to get into IMC make sure you hand fly it!

Not sure how sophisticated your aircraft is but also be very familiar with all the wizardry (glass) prior. would be good for you to be shown the steam version and glass version of instrument flying. Quite different!

[Humbly Reserved]

*use the sim as much as possible (for as cheap as possible) the approaches should be your bread and butter before stepping into an aircraft

*Prep for each flight as much as possible (these will be the most expensive flights you will probably do)

*In the real world unless the sh*t really hits the fan, you'll be doing only ILS and RNAV approaches

*In my view too much focus is applied to the approach end of IFR training. I've encountered too many people who can't detail a departure from a ctaf in IMC/ radio calls for the flight or various cruise procedures (diversions, bad weather, traffic) I suggest you have management plans or even schematics to help make things easier

Remember finally, because you are allowed to fly through CU cloud doesnt necessarily make it a smart idea...

HR

[alex79]

Thanks for the comments and I think you are all right saying "get into real IMC conditions". Watched a few things on youtube and its looks much different to my good weather flights ;)

I had a better look at CAAP 5.13-1 - Private IFR, and it only give any required or suggested hours for the FPAs.

Anybody who did the Instrument Departure FPA or the GPS/NPA approach with Visual Circling FPA? Sure it will vary between students, but what would be a good number of hours for the FPAs ?

@Nose_Wheel - I plan to do most of my training on a Archer with 2x G430W and an S-TEC 50 AP.

Many Thanks!

[Unusual-Attitude]

Go see Bob Harris in IFL...preferably this time of year. :E

[Ramjet555]

A long time ago, I did an Australian ME IFR and did that very long initial flight test etc.

After several renewals, I moved to Canada where I had to do a fresh ride and a type rating.



Then I experienced real IFR not just that fluffy white stuff but real unexpected icing.

I could tell stories till the cows came home but for anyone getting an IFR, I think it is very important to realize that In Aus, you are not really likely to be seeing or experiencing any serious IFR weather.



There is ONE unique Place, Halifax Nova Scotia, where you are dam near guaranteed to have the best IFR weather ever.

IF you check out the cost, its even cheaper to do it in Canada or north east USA than to do it in Australia. Just return, do the IREX and a ride with lots of stories to tell when you get back, stories you will never ever get in Aus.



Now, once I used to fly night freight. On one very dark and dirty night, we looked at the forecast and decided to go. It was a very careful decision. We chose our altitudes wisely.

In the space of about 40 minutes, we were called up twice to call and listen to 121.5 when their transponder went out.



On each occassion, a Cessna Caravan had suddenly disappeared from Radar, and the last one that disappeared somewhere underneath us.

We called and of course there was no answer. Both were fatal. The last one splashed down in a large lake invisible to us.



We had two janitol heaters, one broke down, and not long after, the other broke down, in -40C, and while we were dressed very well, it was still a bit chilly in the cockpit.

You learn all sorts of tricks, like putting a bunch of pepper on your feet covering it in a thin cloth or tissue paper, sock, plastic sock etc, that creates a chemical reaction that keeps your toes toasty in your snow boots.



As we approached Halifax, our alternate went down as did any other possible alternative within reasonable fuel.

We were "cold soaked" and knew we would pick up a hell of load of ice as we descended into warm-er air just packed with moisture, while we were well and truly cold-soaked.



We went for the ILS, and kept upping the approach speed as we saw the windshield turn into a massive ice block.

That's when the electric heater on the windshield failed.



One long final, we left the flaps up, and the tower was accustomed to our call out of numbers to adjust the intensity so that it did not blind us but helped confirm the localizer.



We knew it was down so we planned a blind landing on the ILS.
That cloud was down to around 50ft, with heavy snow, and with a windshield full of ice.

The landing was first class, needles centered all the way.

We came to a grinding halt as if we were doing a Carrier landing in an F16.



We had to sit there for about two hours for a snow plow to make its way to us, and then clear the taxi-way back to the hanger.

It's the Inter-provincial airlines hanger, incredibly famous, and friendly.

We did the usual Freight Pilot stunt, as our huge block of ice was towed into the hanger to melt, we hit the sleeping bags in the loft.

It took several hours or more for that ice to melt.

We both learned from that experience and changed our own rules of how we would decide on the weather in the future.


.

[Capt Fathom]

ramjet,

If you are doing an Instrument Rating in Australia, and plan on flying in Australia, does it really matter that the conditions are much worse in Canada?

I did my initial IF Rating in QLD. It was most eye opening when I ventured to NSW & VIC. Guess what! I learnt quickly an survived!

As professionals we learn and adapt!

[AdamFrisch]

I did haphazard training, spread out for many years. Never could get it to work - by the time I got back in the air I had forgotten all essential stuff. In the end I did one of those 10-day intensive courses they have here in the states (PIC). Although mine was 11-days because I did it on a twin. It was flat out. 4-5hours of flying each day, cramming, theory, sim. I breathed, ate and slept IFR for 11 days straight. And I can tell you I would not be an IR pilot today if I hadn't done that. I have terrible memory, so cramming and making it all fit together in one go was the best solution for me. If you can retain info easily and have the ability to digest, then slower training might work for you. It's all individual.

[Ramjet555]

Capt Fathom,
It does not appear you read my post.

For those starting out, and considering Where one can do an IFR,
Where you do your training does matter and Australia simply does not have the same differences in air masses or the same extreme range of temperatures that result in some places like Halifax N.S.

Just as you had an "eye opener" when you went south of the Gold Coast, your eyes would open a little wider after another learning experience in Canada.

[Ramjet555]

AdamFrisch (http://www.pprune.org/members/152041-adamfrisch)
There are a great many people like you who go on concentrated courses of several hours per day every day for a week or two.

I'll comment more on the cramming for the written exam rather than the practical flying of such a course which I'll leave for another post.

I've seen the results of those courses and generally, as time goes on, they forget probably half the written and oral questions.

Take any experienced IFR pilot and ask them, years later, to re-write the Instrument Written exam in Aus, USA or Canada and most would score a lot lower without study to relearn what they have forgotten.

Most pilots never ever want to have to re-write that exam.

The IFR written exams, tend to be academic examinations in English comprehension, riddled with diversionary questions with double negatives that make even someone who knows the subject well practically likely to give a wrong answer.

While many of those double negative questions could be rephrased, it does make people think and a study a little harder which tends to add to retention.

The single biggest problem with IFR training is not the "initial training" but the absence of "recurrent and or on-going training".

Throwing IPC's every year or so in an exam style does not foster "on going training".

I believe IFR pilots and aviation safety would be better served by having a requirement to provide evidence of having spent a number of hours per month or quarter on "ongoing training".

I would suggest that you sign up and register for the FAA's large number of options for on-line ongoing training.

While there is nothing improper about 10 day cram courses, anyone going that route will need to spend significant hours studying AFTER their ride to maintain that level of knowledge.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Ramjet, do you wear a tight blue t-shirt with a BIG red "S" on the front? :D

[Ramjet555]

ForkTailedDrKiller (http://www.pprune.org/members/164064-forktaileddrkiller)
The only red T-shirt I have is red, with a Maple leaf on it and its only worn on Canada day. I meant no offense. I hoped newbies getting their IFR might gain perspective from it.

Now studying to return to Aus and convert the foreign qualifications, is a humbling but challenging experience. I'm going to miss the bedroom temperature dropping to -10 when I do the old Ausi custom of opening the window for some fresh air. But it has certain advantages.

As a typical old Ausie, you get skin cancer, and after it gets literally burned off, your nerve endings still feel like they are burning. That nice cold Canadian air works wonders in tricking your nerve endings into believing the temperature is normal.

The obvious benefit is that it does not cost a dime to get the temperature down that cold.

The disadvantages are that just as Ausi pilots get skin cancer, here you get frost bite and after that happens, typing goes into slow motion. It's what you get from getting to wait in primitive waiting rooms where the thermostat set up near the roof, is set to kick on at -20 while its a balmy -40 outside. Right now is dam near tropical at -6 with enough fresh snow to go skiing.

Just Drool over Halifax for some IFR Training?
It's now 2:40 am

METAR: CYHZ 120700Z 18009KT 15SM FEW040 OVC060 M03/M05 A3045 RMK SC2SC6 SLP319

TAF: LATEST TAF REPORT FOR CYHZ TAF CYHZ 120538Z 1206/1306 18008KT P6SM SCT015 BKN030 TEMPO 1206/1214 3SM -SHSN BKN015 OVC030 FM121400 20012KT 2SM -SNRA BR OVC008 FM121700 20015G25KT 1/2SM -RA FG VV003 BECMG 1222/1224 24012KT FM130300 22012KT 2SM -SNRA BR OVC008 FM130500 34012KT 3/4SM -SN VV008 RMK NXT FCST BY 120900Z LATEST FC REPORT FOR CYHZ *** NO MESSAGES FOUND ***



Moosanee - A typical destination for Ontario medivacs.
CYMO 120700Z AUTO 25006KT 9SM OVC120 M24/M27 A3028 RMK SLP255

Edmonton, Home of the Oilers, and conservative politics. Not far from here, I ran into two former prime ministers walking down the street by themselves in a single day. It's where I found some nice people that helped me pass the local exams and get a job.

METAR CYEG 120700Z 14007KT 15SM FEW100 M20/M23 A3021 RMK AC1 SLP302

TAF: LATEST TAF REPORT FOR CYEG TAF CYEG 120538Z 1206/1306 14005KT P6SM FEW180 TEMPO 1210/1218 2SM BR PROB30 1212/1218 1/2SM FZFG VV002 FM121800 VRB03KT P6SM FEW040 TEMPO 1218/1220 2SM BR BECMG 1222/1224 24008KT RMK NXT FCST BY 120900Z LATEST FC REPORT FOR CYEG *** NO MESSAGES FOUND ***


INUVIK - Just north of 60, ideal place for your first job.

Metar: CYEV 120700Z 17007KT 130V200 10SM IC OVC002 M26/M29 A3022 RMK ST8 SLP244


TAF" LATEST TAF REPORT FOR CYEV TAF CYEV 120638Z 1207/1219 14005KT P6SM OVC003 TEMPO 1207/1213 3SM IC BR SCT005 OVC010 FM121300 VRB03KT P6SM SCT008 BKN030 TEMPO 1213/1219 4SM -SN BKN008 OVC030 PROB30 1213/1217 2SM -SN BR BKN005 RMK NXT FCST BY 121300Z LATEST FC REPORT FOR CYEV *** NO MESSAGES FOUND ***



Now, I can't finish this post without telling you about a place in Ontario called "Red Lake", CYRL, its the gateway to many reservations up north.
It was from "CYRL" I got my first turbine job. The captain, was a legend and he now lies under many meters of ice at the top of a mountain in Antarctica.

Notice the nice clear sky. The temperature will drop up there tonight.

METAR: CYRL 120300Z 32006KT 15SM SKC M24/M27 A3033 RMK LAST STFD OBS/ NEXT 12 1000UTC SLP320

LATEST TAF REPORT FOR CYRL TAF CYRL 111938Z 1120/1203 25012KT P6SM BKN040 TEMPO 1120/1202 5SM -SN OVC040 RMK NXT FCST WILL BE ISSUED AT 121145Z LATEST FC REPORT FOR CYRL TAF CYRL 111938Z 1120/1203 25012KT P6SM BKN040 TEMPO 1120/1202 5SM -SN OVC040 RMK NXT FCST WILL BE ISSUED AT 121145Z