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gileraguy
28th Nov 2014, 23:10
had an associate put petrol in his Peugeot HDI 307 Turbo Diesel and his damage bill was $9000 AU for a new pump, injectors and cleaning out the tank. 30 hours labor included. Injectors are $800 AU each!

I have the pump but haven't dismantled it yet to see the damage.

With the sophistication of modern cars, it amazes me that the engine management system doesn't shut down as soon as it is aware of the fuel difference...

From research I have found that this event happens every three minutes in the UK...

charliegolf
28th Nov 2014, 23:20
I once put 11 litres in my VW (2010 car) bfore I realised. Filled it with diesel, went round the corner to the dealer. He said, "Eleven litres out of 60 ish. It'll be fine." Not a chirp from it. Lucky.

CG

superq7
28th Nov 2014, 23:28
I did it this week put about a fivers worth of unleaded in my skip lorry shit ! anyway topped it to the brim with Diesel and fingers crossed all has been well :eek: Stu.

ShyTorque
28th Nov 2014, 23:34
Truck drivers used to deliberately put some petrol in the diesel tanks in the winter to stop the fuel filter waxing up.

G-CPTN
28th Nov 2014, 23:48
I suspect that there is a degree of 'sucking' (the sound made when the tradesperson tells you that "it's gonna cost you") and 'suckering' - with the easiest solution being to 'change everything' rather than apply common sense and drain and replace and then 'flush' through with the correct fuel, though:-

Diesel fuel pumps operate on very fine tolerances and at very high pressures modern systems run at between 350 and 1600 bar) and are lubricated by the fuel. Petrol in diesel acts as a solvent, reducing lubrication, and can cause damage to the pump through metal to metal contact.

Metal particles from the damaged pump can be deposited in the fuel causing further damage to the rest of the fuel system.

Some fuel system seals can be affected by the compounds in petrol too.

The further the contaminated fuel goes in the system the more expensive the repair. In some cases it can be cheaper to fit a new engine!

Common rail (or HDi) diesel engines are particularly vulnerable if fuel contaminated by pump wear debris gets as far as the common rail system you may have to replace the low and high-pressure fuel pumps, injectors, fuel rail, line filters and the fuel tank.

Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) petrol engines are particularly susceptible to damage too.
From:- Filled with the wrong fuel? | AA (http://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/wrong-fuel-advice.html)

Arm out the window
29th Nov 2014, 00:14
My sister-in-law recently filled up her 2012-ish Mazda common rail diesel ute (pickup for our non-Aussie readers) with petrol and then drove it about 50 km whilst it was coughing and spluttering.

Her husband was all doom and gloom, it's going to cost $10 000 and insurance won't cover it (apparently true), but simply draining the fuel system and changing the filter was enough to get it purring like a kitten again.

Fuel filter had some tiny particles in it, but nothing like the remains of the blasted-out high pressure pump and injector system we'd been fearing might be there.

junior.VH-LFA
29th Nov 2014, 00:26
Put about 10L of petrol in my 70L diesel about 4 months ago. Topped it to the brim with diesel and pushed it out of the way. Called the mechanic up the street and he said it would be right.

It actually runs a bit better now.

Lesson learned, 5 hours of driving non stop and associated fatigue means I stop reading signs properly!

oldpax
29th Nov 2014, 00:32
Here in Thailand diesel colour is black others are green!!

crippen
29th Nov 2014, 00:52
Petrol in Diesel
had an associate put petrol in his Peugeot HDI 307 Turbo Diesel and his damage bill was $9000 AU for a new pump, injectors and cleaning out the tank. 30 hours labor included. Injectors are $800 AU each!


these wear out very easily on bio diesel anyway.:sad:

TOWTEAMBASE
29th Nov 2014, 01:30
In the UK they are also black and green. And if you want to pay a tad more, even a blue one. I thought cars now a days were designed so that the wrong pump won't fit in the filler ?

A A Gruntpuddock
29th Nov 2014, 03:30
My daughter put petrol in her diesel car - local garage charged 100 to sort it. :)

FullOppositeRudder
29th Nov 2014, 04:10
Here in Oz the system has several checks to make it difficult to wantonly fill diesel into the fuel tank inlet of a petrol vehicle. The inlet throat of the fuel filler in a petrol vehicle is of a relatively small diameter; the nozzle of the petrol hose is also smaller and matches more or less exactly the diameter of the fuel filler it's designed to work with.

Most diesel fuel bowsers have a flap which you have lift to release the hose from the bowser storage fitting - usually with a sign you cannot escape noticing which says "Caution DIESEL" - or similar. The Diesel fuel nozzle is of a much larger diameter and it would be difficult to convincingly mate it up into a petrol vehicle inlet pipe.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any sort of safeguard to prevent the reciprocal option - other than perhaps a "Caution Diesel Fuel Only" sticker near the fuel tank cap - which our diesel vehicle has.

It seems to be easy to get it wrong, a situation not helped by the variety of confusing ways in which different fuel companies label their products. If you drive a mixture of vehicles you need to be very astute about the refueling protocol.

It's the same with aeroplanes. Occasional misfueling has happened in the past - with very bad consequences. Happily our system has a few more checks and balances ......

innuendo
29th Nov 2014, 05:21
[QUOTE][
It's the same with aeroplanes. Occasional misfueling has happened in the past - with very bad consequences./QUOTE]

That happened to a whole bunch of RCAF CF-100s that were a target force for an exercise, (a long time ago).
They were to start from the far frozen North, Frobisher/ Iqualuit, and head towards the North East of the continent as an attack force.
Unfortunately they were filled up with Avgas instead of jet fuel and ended up diverting en masse all over the place short of their planned routes when the fuel gauges started going down far too fast.
Nobody was hurt but it caused a bit of a kerfuffle.

As to gas Vs diesel, A friend did that in a fairly recent Volvo model and got about half an hour up the road before the whole thing quit.
His local mechanic drained the system and filed up with diesel and the car has run just fine since.
I am not sure what the situation will be if he sells or trades the car in.
Would this show up when the servicing electronics are connected to the car and if it is sold without disclosure of the event would that create problems with the sale that could come back to bite him?
It seems that gasoline fillers are protected by size of nozzle against putting diesel into them but the reverse obviously is not the case as evidenced by the number of instances.

sitigeltfel
29th Nov 2014, 06:22
My sister-in-law recently filled up her 2012-ish Mazda common rail diesel ute.....Her husband was all doom and gloom, it's going to cost $10 000 and insurance won't cover it (apparently true), but simply draining the fuel system and changing the filter was enough to get it purring like a kitten again.

Just wait until the injector seals slowly disintegrate :eek:

Ogre
29th Nov 2014, 06:26
I did something similar a couple of years ago, put 10 or so litres of unleaded into the 90 litre tank of my 4x4. Topped up with diesel and had a chat with a couple of friends who are knowledgable on the subject.

The concensus of opinion was that that ratio was not going to be an issue, and the best thing I could do was run it as normal but top up in small amounts (20 litres or so) as I used it to dilute the mix further. Do this for the equivalent of the next tankful or so and it should be fine.

Guess what, no problems whatsoever.

Not like a former colleague who phoned me at work one morning to say he would be late in. When I asked why, he said "You know that nice new diesel Rover I bought a couple of months ago? Well I filled the tank with petrol and took it for a thrash down the motorway on the way to work...."

rh200
29th Nov 2014, 07:17
The difference in Oz with fuel fillers has nothing to do with prevention of diesel contamination.

Originally they where the same size, well on the low volume ones anyway. When we still had super (leaded) it was bought in to stop cross contamination between leaded and unleaded.

The damage done by using diesel is down to several factors, ratio of contamination, and type of fuel system. Diesel is a good lubricant and is used as coolant in some systems. A common rail system has extremely high fuel pressures, so are even more acceptable to damage.

Stanwell
29th Nov 2014, 07:33
rh,
I hope you mean 'susceptible'.

Solid Rust Twotter
29th Nov 2014, 07:46
Don't know if it still applies, but we used to add 3% diesel to the petrol to help lube stuff in the petrol engines, and 3% petrol to the diesel in order to clean out any sludge and crap in diesel engines.

More than likely some reason why it can't be done any more. Sucking of teeth by mechanic no small part of that reason, I'll warrant.

OFSO
29th Nov 2014, 08:34
Truck drivers used to deliberately put some petrol in the diesel tanks in the winter to stop the fuel filter waxing up.

Yeah....many many years ago. Used to put up to 25% petrol in my 200D in winter for the same reason - diesel engines were not happy with temperatures of -25c. These days winter diesel (which is in the pumps, slightly obviously, in winter) can easily deal with that. Modern diesel systems don't like petrol up 'em.

gruntie
29th Nov 2014, 08:39
As rh200 says the restriction on the filler neck that is now effectively universal on petrol-engined cars was originally introduced to differentiate between leaded and unleaded petrol, when both were available (leaded petrol destroys catalysts): it has nothing to do with diesel.
A common 'dodge' having put petrol in diesel was to add a can of engine oil to the tank, to restore lubricity, and then just run it. The modern stuff with an ethanol content plays havoc though with non-compliant seals and is causing problems in older petrol systems let alone when bunged by mistake in a diesel tank.

Effluent Man
29th Nov 2014, 08:54
I ran a garage for many years and this was a problem,particularly when people bought a diesel car having previously owned a petrol. With the earlier engines it wasn't a problem at all. As some have observed just run it through and continue to top the tank to dilute.

The real problem has come with the newer engines that are set for low emissions. This has made them far more temperamental and I think that Peugeot engine is one of the worst from the point of view of misfueling.

om15
29th Nov 2014, 09:29
I have done exactly the same, 10 litres of petrol by mistake then topped up with diesel, ran perfectly normally but no idea of long term damage.
I have a SAAB 1.9 diesel, as standard practice I use half a litre of Redex fuel cleaner about every third fill up, ( about 1500 miles or so), never had any problems with fuel pumps or injectors.

Takan Inchovit
29th Nov 2014, 09:36
That does it. The next diesel I buy will have to be brand new.

Tankertrashnav
29th Nov 2014, 09:39
Most diesel fuel bowsers have a flap which you have to lift to release the hose from the bowser storage fitting -

Puzzled about that statement for a minute or so, as I couldn't see why you would be refuelling your car from a large tanker vehicle normally only used to refuel aircraft. Then I remembered that a bowser is what you guys call a petrol (or diesel) pump down under!

So what do you call bowsers? ;)

Takan Inchovit
29th Nov 2014, 10:31
So what do you call bowsers?

Tankers, trashnav. ;)

1DC
29th Nov 2014, 10:33
I did it yesterday, put a few litres of petrol in the diesel tank, luckily the tank was nearly empty so i filled up with diesel. I then took comfort from the words of the gurus on jet blast the last time this was discussed and decided everything would be right, so far it is.. Funny how as age creeps upon me a slight change in the routine can affect the concentration. I went to fill up and their was a queue for all pumps except pay at the pump. I went to pay at the pump and as i was figuring out how to do it the brain went into neutral and the next thing is i notice i am using a green nozzle instead of black. Wouldn't have happened a few years ago, maybe!!:(:(

Lon More
29th Nov 2014, 10:57
we used to routinely add 10% petrol to diesel in the winter months to stop it waxing. Never any compaints from customers (almost all trucksback then) IIRC it was standard practice at most garages. Technology makes it unneccessary now with different formulae for winter and summer fuels.
Filled a van with petrol several years ago by mistake. It ground to a halt some 20 miles down the road. Tank emptied and injectors flushed through and no problem. Did it again a couple of months later (we had two almost identical vans, one petrol, one diesel ) this time realised what I'd done directly. Road patrol arrived and simply pumped the tank empty. It still ran perfectly when it was sold on some 75000 miles later

Effluent Man
29th Nov 2014, 11:08
Lon,

The modern diesel engine is a very different animal.The rugged old Peugeot 504 had an engine that would virtually run on anything. I think the initial Sierra diesel was a version, and the BMC one fitted to the A60 was pretty much the same.

They were however very agricultural,noisy and low powered. It's the same as anything I suppose, like comparing a DC-3 with a modern airliner.

OFSO
29th Nov 2014, 11:41
that would virtually run on anything

My 200D would run on heating oil with a dash of the oil we'd fried the chips in that lunchtime (well-filtered of course, and doing that took AGES.)

And yes it stank to high heaven on that mix.

Lon More
29th Nov 2014, 11:51
EM this was a 1.9 l Peugeot turbo, not cutting edge but not all that old, it had about 15% vegetable oil added to the fuel most of the time. Smelt like a mobile chip shop. Not even thinking of trying it in my 2.0l VAG unit
There was a fad some years ago recycling oil from the local chip shops for road use. Lots of work involved and when the gubbermint stepped in to claim their share it lost most of its charm especially as a lot of work and a not insignificant start up cost was involved

MadsDad
29th Nov 2014, 11:54
A few years ago a friend told us of the time a couple of them were going out night fishing and stopped to pick up fuel on the way. As they left the garage he realised he had filled his diesel Landie up with petrol. They then stopped a quarter mile or so down the road, over a roadside drain, uncoupled the fuel line and let the tank drain into the drains. They then used a spare can he had to fuel up with and continued on their way.

They were somewhat surprised a few hours later as they came back from their fishing trip to find lots of fire engines parked on the road where they had emptied the tank and the firemen pumping huge quantities of water into the drains in an attempt to prevent the petrol exploding and blowing up the neighbourhood. They just quietly went about their business.

Effluent Man
29th Nov 2014, 12:54
Lon, I had a customer with a Xantia who ran on chip shop oil. I think that was exactly the same engine as the 406. It did smell of Haddock,and smoke.

419
29th Nov 2014, 15:34
had an associate put petrol in his Peugeot HDI 307 Turbo Diesel and his damage bill was $9000 AU for a new pump, injectors and cleaning out the tank. 30 hours labor included. Injectors are $800 AU each!


30 hours labour. What was the tank cleaned with, a toothbrush?

Gertrude the Wombat
29th Nov 2014, 15:52
There's them as has and them as will.

Cost around 100 in my case, just cleaning stuff, nothing broken.

OFSO
29th Nov 2014, 15:55
Interesting that you can run a diesel car on cooking oil but can't cook fish 'n chips in diesel fuel.....

I blame the EU for this.

dazdaz1
29th Nov 2014, 16:06
If I recall :confused: are not the filling pump nozzles different diameters for petrol/diesel? Maybe I'm confused, been a long day.

OFSO
29th Nov 2014, 16:10
Yes, one is bigger than the other, or possibly the other way around.

It has indeed !

Mariner9
29th Nov 2014, 16:15
I'll see your 10 litres in a car tank full and raise you 500 tons of gasoline in 60,000 tons of diesel.

That's the latest shipboard contamination that I am busy sorting out.

dazdaz1
29th Nov 2014, 17:05
Mariner9

Ummm very interesting..... BBC News - Inquiry into Morrisons contaminated petrol from Murco, Milford Haven (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-30211532)

G-CPTN
29th Nov 2014, 17:08
There was a rash of 'fuel contamination' from supermarket sources about a year ago (maybe more).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_Kingdom_petrol_contamination

xtypeman
29th Nov 2014, 17:18
Guilty of doing once. 40 of UL in my then Diesel XF. But as soon as i knew what I had done I did not start the car and called the RAC. I blocked the Tescos forecourt for an Hour but all the fuel drained out refilled with Diesel and all ok. Also many years ago ran a 205D. This had vegetable oil when it cost less than a litre of Diesel also a few gallons of Jet A1 plus engine oil and some home heating oil as well. The engine never missed a beat.

OFSO
29th Nov 2014, 18:04
Re contamination: an old rule used to be never fill your car just after the filling station tanks have been filled, as the new fuel going in stirs up any sediment lying at the bottom. Someone will probably say it's not true, but in small out-of-the-way filling stations, why not ?

G-CPTN
29th Nov 2014, 18:12
Many years ago (more than 60) we received water-contaminated petrol from a filling station during torrential rain (as we later worked out).
We were travelling 'down south' well away from our home base.
It took a long time to diagnose.

Capetonian
29th Nov 2014, 18:13
I don't understand why the car manufacturers and the fuel distribution outlets don't get their heads together and work out a way of shaping the outlet nozzles and the filler socketsa on new cars so that diesel and petrol ones are simply incompatible.

I realise that there would be a phasing-in period during which older vehicles would either have to be converted, not a major undertaking, or alternatively the customer or attendant would have to remove the keyed nozzle in order to insert the hose.

Not rocket science?

G-CPTN
29th Nov 2014, 18:19
It is currently not possible (in the UK) to insert a diesel-pump nozzle into a petrol car.
The change to the nozzle was introduced when petrol changed to unleaded I believe. The petrol nozzle was made smaller, and the filler socket on the car was also made smaller to prevent leaded petrol being used.
I don't know if you can still get leaded petrol (from a filling station).

om15
29th Nov 2014, 18:22
Anecdotally, and I have no idea who, where or when, it is said that you can run one of the older less sophisticated diesel cars on Jet A1 with a dash of hydraulic fluid added for lubrication. For example I am lead to believe that a small Vauxhall Corsa van has achieved an impressive mileage fuelled in this way, an old wives tale perhaps.:E

Krystal n chips
29th Nov 2014, 18:26
Our motoring and travel correspondent writes :

I don't understand why the car manufacturers and the fuel distribution outlets don't get their heads together and work out a way of shaping the outlet nozzles and the filler socketsa on new cars so that diesel and petrol ones are simply incompatible

Oh dear....how to put this gently to one of such standing and unrivalled expertise in the travel sector.......

They have.

Still, as a paid up UKIP member, the 1950's are so much more appealing .... possibly this is one reason this technical development has not come to your attention in recent times ?

Capetonian
29th Nov 2014, 18:40
It is currently not possible (in the UK) to insert a diesel-pump nozzle into a petrol car.I know that, but as others have said, the reverse is possible, and petrol into a modern diesel with a DPF could result in worse damage than diesel into a petrol car.

OFSO
29th Nov 2014, 19:43
On the same lines, I have had friends who have mistaken suppositaries for medicine to be taken aurally. One wonders why some form of sizing could not be introduced to ensure the right orifice is selected.

vulcanised
29th Nov 2014, 20:48
mistaken suppositaries for medicine to be taken aurally


'For all the good that does, you might as well stick it up your arse'

Krystal n chips
29th Nov 2014, 21:00
"One wonders why some form of sizing could not be introduced to ensure the right orifice is selected. "

Possibly because several prolific right wing posters on JB prove beyond all doubt the larynx has, in their case, been genetically adapted to function from the lower of two options available to homo sapiens.

er340790
29th Nov 2014, 21:06
Up in Yellowknife, they supply W30, W40 and W50 diesel and home heating fuel... Predictably this stands for Winter, -30c, -40c and -50c...

So yes, the days of diesel not being suitable for Winter use really are long-gone.

We did actually get some days below -50c. Though if you drove on those days, you had other things to worry about. Like breathing.

Personal record-low was -65c in the Winter of 2010/11. :eek:

wings folded
29th Nov 2014, 21:26
I have had friends who have mistaken suppositaries for medicine to be taken aurallyI believe ear drops are the only medicines to be taken aurally, and it's hard to confuse a suppository with ear drops.

Medicines to be taken orally could be confused with what you are supposed to stick up your arse, but only if you are a wee bit dim.

Capetonian
29th Nov 2014, 21:38
I believe it is only the Gallic nations who enjoy sticking things up their backsides. They certainly enjoy talking out of their rear orifices.

TBirdFrank
30th Nov 2014, 01:04
A friend filled my brother in law's Peugeot with petrol and then realised what he had done. He was pretty close to me, so we used my RAC membership to tow it home without starting the engine, drained it and filled it up with the right stuff while the RAC guy went native in my shed.

It hasn't missed a beat in three years - but the lawnmower smokes a lot!

BeechNut
30th Nov 2014, 03:58
Mixing petrol in the diesel fuel on modern common-rail diesels is a recipe for disaster. The high-pressure fuel pump pressurizes the fuel rail to somewhere like 20k psi. The pump itself is lubricated by the fuel. If the fuel has insufficient lubricity (e.g. from being diluted with petrol), the pump will eventually self-destruct and send metal shards throughout the fuel system. You basically have to replace the fuel system from the tank to the injectors.

I live in Canada and diesel cars are fairly rare except for VWs and a handful of Audis, BMWs and Mercs (and now the Chevrolet Cruze), but my wife, son and myself all drive VW TDI diesels. My son's is an older unit injector engine so doesn't have this issue. But on the newer common rails it a huge problem.

Because diesels are so rare here people who previously owned petrol cars were buying TDIs then mistakenly filling with petrol, destroying the fuel systems. So VW put a restriction in the fuel filler that requires the larger diesel nozzle to press on toggles that open a flap, to prevent accidental filling with a narrower petrol nozzle. A real Rube Goldberg apparatus designed to protect the stupid from themselves. But then fuel system replacement is somewhere around $7-9k here.

There have also been issues with poor quality fuel especially in the US, eventually destroying the high-pressure fuel pumps. Not so much in Canada where fuel lubricity is somewhat better. The Bosch design that VW used is particularly sensitive to fuel quality.

On older diesels, accidentally filling with petrol was more embarrassing than anything else. But on a common-rail, if you've accidentally filled with any amount of petrol the car shouldn't even be started, it should be towed to a garage and the fuel system flushed and refilled with uncontaminated diesel.

More on this on Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community (http://www.tdiclub.com), search for HPFP failures.

LTNman
30th Nov 2014, 06:49
I have a Ford Mondeo which is impossible to fuel with petrol due to the design of the filler cap. Ford call it the Easy Fuel system which prevents the expensive mistake of misfuelling

Capetonian
30th Nov 2014, 07:48
........... a restriction in the fuel filler that requires the larger diesel nozzle to press on toggles that open a flap, to prevent accidental filling with a narrower petrol nozzle.Sounds very much like what a friend of mine used to say about his ex-wife.

OFSO
30th Nov 2014, 08:42
LTN Man, my Ford Mondeo is the same. And has no filler cap, either.

Thread Drift:

it's hard to confuse a suppository with ear drops.

True story. Friend of a friend in Italy was married to an ENT specialist. Woman goes to him with ear infection. He prescribes antibiotics in suppository form. Says "come back in a week". When she does so she says now her hearing has gone completely and her pillows are in a mess. He lifts up her great mass of wavy black hair (if you know Italian women...) and finds ear completely blocked with half-melted suppositories....

crippen
30th Nov 2014, 09:21
Make filler pipes like this?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gFndjjr9L.jpg

child proof! ;)

Takan Inchovit
30th Nov 2014, 09:32
Sadly, when Mr Murphy fits the new shape nozzles to the pumps .....

ShyTorque
30th Nov 2014, 10:10
If I misfuelled a moderate amount of petrol in my diesel car, I'd be likely to add some modern, ashless 2 stroke oil to the tank to replace the lubricity (available at most fuel outlets), top it right up with diesel and carry on. Then top up the tank as often as possible to dilute the petrol further and drive the car so that the fuel system self flushes, rather than standing with diluted petrol in the lines.

About this talk of "engine seals" being destroyed as soon as they sniff a bit of petrol. What seals do they refer to? Why aren't they made of better materials in the first place?

It wouldn't surprise me too much if "engine seals" on diesel systems are made of the same materials as the ones in petrol ones.

Or, has this been mainly overstated by companies wishing to make money by jumping on the misfuelling bandwagon, as I tend to suspect? I wonder what they do with your expensive fuel, once they've charged you through the nose to relieve you of it? Run their vans on it? ��

Capetonian
30th Nov 2014, 11:18
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gFndjjr9L.jpg

Exactly what I meant in #44.

I don't understand why the car manufacturers and the fuel distribution outlets don't .......... work out a way of shaping the outlet nozzles and the filler sockets on new cars so that diesel and petrol ones are simply incompatible.

OFSO
30th Nov 2014, 13:38
A friend with a 30 year old petrol Mercedes has just had to change the seals on the engine because the old ones were incompatible with modern fuel and were disintegrating.

Does this help ?

(No, I suspect.)

Democritus
30th Nov 2014, 14:33
The local Sainsbury has put in new pumps since my last visit. There is now a pay at pump or kiosk option and two days ago whilst trying to work this one out the means of choosing distracted me and I picked up the petrol nozzle instead of the diesel one. My car is a two year old Audi A6 and I found out that fortunately you can't get the petrol nozzle into the diesel filler orifice.

Capetonian
30th Nov 2014, 14:41
My car is a two year old Audi A6 and I found out that fortunately you can't get the petrol nozzle into the diesel filler orifice. Then things have changed, because about 4 years ago I unfortunately put a few litres of petrol into my Audi A3 TdI. As it happens, not having started it, I was able to drain the tank and then tank up with diesel so that any remnants of petrol were diluted sufficiently to cause no harm.

ShyTorque
30th Nov 2014, 16:26
A friend with a 30 year old petrol Mercedes has just had to change the seals on the engine because the old ones were incompatible with modern fuel and were disintegrating.
Does this help ?
(No, I suspect.)

This is a well understood issue amongst classic car owners and builders of specials/kit cars (e.g. rubber diaphragms on fuel pumps designed for old fashioned leaded fuel being affected by unleaded has been one aspect of the problem for some years). But modern materials and petrol/diesel applications might be another matter. I don't know the answer, but I do know that you can buy standard sized seals of all types from bearing specialists (I have done so a number of times in the past) and I don't recall ever seeing information to to bar use because of the fuel type.

Dushan
30th Nov 2014, 16:27
On the same lines, I have had friends who have mistaken suppositaries for medicine to be taken aurally. One wonders why some form of sizing could not be introduced to ensure the right orifice is selected.


I knew a few girls in my life to whom it would have made no difference. :p

Dushan
30th Nov 2014, 16:31
"One wonders why some form of sizing could not be introduced to ensure the right orifice is selected. "

Possibly because several prolific right wing posters on JB prove beyond all doubt the larynx has, in their case, been genetically adapted to function from the lower of two options available to homo sapiens.


And some left wing posters have their head firmly implanted in the, said, lower orifice, this preventing insertion of anything especially sound logical thinking.

Dushan
30th Nov 2014, 16:37
Make filler pipes like this?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gFndjjr9L.jpg

child proof! ;)

Not quite the round will fit into the square one.

OFSO
30th Nov 2014, 16:51
An Irish friend told me that when he accidentally filled his 220TD with petrol instead of diesel, on the advice of the filling station owner, he removed the "TD" from the chrome badge on the back and the car ran perfectly.

cockney steve
30th Nov 2014, 17:33
Customer hada Jaguar XJ6....He'd called at a garage about 2 miles from me...As the owner was occupied ,he helped himself....topped-up the half- tank one side and filled the other empty tank. The garage owner then told him he'd filled with diesel...due to a misunderstanding, he left the car and family walked back to the village, whiled away a couple of hours and he then walked back to collect his drained and refilled car.....only it wasn't!....garageman was off home, so,I advised our man that he should select the side that had been "over half full with petrol"
and drive it to me......it pegged out about 1/4 mile away, I towed it in,drained the tanks and carbs, chucked in 5 gallons of petrol,purged the fuel lines and eventually got it started.....put the auto-box in 1-lock and thrashed it down the road, smoking like a destroyer on Convoy -duty...It took a couple of miles to clear, then topped the tanks with petrol.
car was fine.

Ethanol is a major problem with older vehicles. IMO, that is why the Government has limited the percentage in petrol. If the concentration were higher, the cause of problems would be obvious and motorists would be sueing en masse......same with Biodiesel.
Many a Delphi fuel injection system has come to an untimely end due to that and it being a crappy pump anyway.
~ 10% cross-contamination is unlikely to cause major damage. If in doubt, drain, refill with correct fuel and check if , indeed,there is any damage. panicking and just blitzing the system because it "might" have suffered damage, is daft.

OutlawPete
30th Nov 2014, 18:10
If it's just a few litres (up to around 5 ish) then most likely there will be no long term effects at all, not even to the seals, provided the fuel in the tank is diluted fully by topping up with diesel on a daily basis for the next week or so. If you have gone much above this amount then don't even try to run the car, you'll kill it or set yourself up for some expensive bills down the line.

Don't phone main dealers for advice, they will tell you to unnecessarily replace most of the injection system for a bill in excess of 4k.

This happened to a friend a while ago, with an VX Astra. Main dealer wanted an obscene amount of money so he followed the above advice from a small independent garage and there are no issues with the car at all, not even with the cat or emissions which all still well within the limits a couple of years later.

If you have filled the car up, the advice of around 100 for a drain and flush is accurate.

Interestingly, the emission laws for diesels are set to change so much that manufacturers are struggling to get new engines running clean enough. Some have even made plans to drop diesels from their range. Good news if you ask me, horrible things diesel cars. Yuk.

unstable load
3rd Dec 2014, 09:10
The older vehicles with the all mechanical systems will take to petrol dilution a little better than the moderns, but only up to a point. A mate had a Golf 1 that got half a tank of 5 Star on top of the remaining Diesel and it croaked 50 km later, and I topped a Merc 240D up with 15 liters of Petrol and it's still going...
Same 240D ran very well on JetA-1, too.....:ok:

G-CPTN
4th Dec 2014, 17:06
'Bungling' police forces spend more than 23,000 on repairs after filling cars with wrong fuel (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11644975._Bungling__police_forces_spend_more_than___23_000_o n_repairs_after_filling_cars_with_wrong_fuel/)

Mechta
4th Dec 2014, 18:07
Older diesel cars (i.e before 1997) with mechanical injectors had injection pumps which typically ran at around 1500psi. Solenoid common rail injectors have pumps which run at 15000 to 35000psi. The latest piezo injectors have pumps running at around 44000psi.

Given the numbers, its not hard to see why less lubrication in the pump, and softening of the seals, from using petrol (poor lubricant) as opposed to diesel (good lubricant) is going to affect modern engines far more than the old ones.

Being somewhat averse to large unwanted bills, I'm going to stick with the mechanically injected diesel cars until I can't get one that isn't falling to bits.

Seals are not all the same. The materials which enable sealing at the high pressures in diesel common rail injection pumps are not tolerant of the ethanol used in petrol.

Romeo Oscar Golf
4th Dec 2014, 23:16
Originally Posted by crippen http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/552065-petrol-diesel-post8763642.html#post8763642)
Make filler pipes like this?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gFndjjr9L.jpg

child proof! ;)
Not quite the round will fit into the square one.

Not if the square is smaller than the diameter of the round one!;)
However the square one might squeeze into the round one..........shite----failed again!!

Romeo Oscar Golf
4th Dec 2014, 23:31
Yes, also done it...65 ltrs unleaded into diesel Citroen. No engine start, pushed car to local garage...across the street. I was in the Ardennes and didn't speak Dutch, they didn't speak English so we did OK with mutually bad German.
They did a fine job and then robbed me...................29 Euros and that included 14 Eur for the diesel to start the engine.

I gave the boss 75 Euros.

RAC international (my year membership finished a month previously)wanted 250 Eur to attend plus the cost of towing and doing the job!!

In fact I was quite mean in retrospect.