G day workers

[joblow]

We still have people giving up Joker GDOs to go flying . Seriously what hope is there of Contract Compliance being totally effective whilst our own ranks sabotage us

[monster330]

Are they hkaoa members? If so, contact the union and ask that they contact the individual with a reminder of what is at stake.

It coulda been a swap, but if not, then reminders may be the order of the day.

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

Seriously what hope is there of Contract Compliance being totally effective whilst our own ranks sabotage us

Here we are, 11 months later, and still no C C campaign. :rolleyes:

All has gone very quiet from the ranks of the HKAOA GC. Are we waiting for another 11th hour, final FINAL (not so Good Faith) deal, or are we flogging a dead horse here?

[Sam Ting Wong]

I find it astonishing, truly remarkable, that a whole group of professionals ( well, 51 % at least) is willing to accept an argument without ANY proof, without any hard data, nothing.

Has anyone of you heroes any real information about how many g days are used to solve crewing problems? Any idea?? What difference would it really make if nobody would use a gday for a duty? Do you think the secretary is right when he talks about the significance of three people resigning? Why? How many could resign before it would be significant? Do you know, for a fact, what difference it would make if we would not be contactable when not required? What about reserve duty instead of a roster?? Do you know any relevant numbers, e.g. average flight hours per pilot, number of guys on reserve, etc etc? How many freighters could be operated by other carriers? Are they cheaper or more expensive than our own ops? Why? Do you really think the current crewing numbers are insufficient?How do our crewing levels compare to other airlines? How many do we need? Or is the current level the result of misplanning? Why? Any hard facts to back this up? Is there a causal relationship between total crew numbers and our pay deal?? Why? How many are missing, on which fleet?? Do you think overtime is bad for the company? How many flights are delayed/cancelled because lack of crew? How much is that in $? Do you think one ore two flights delayed for 10 hours makes a difference? How much does it cost? How much does it cost to have more crew? Do you think crew numbers are what they are because of crew planning or a result of our terms and conditions? Would it be difficult for CX to increase/decrease crew numbers? Why? Why not? How many trainers have we? Is that enough? Do you think because trainers say they work too hard/too much this reflects the actual facts? Do we really need more trainers? And if we would need more trainers, would it be so difficult to produce more? Do you think the amount of trainers is a result of misplanning/ because there are not enough capable/qualified people in Cathay? Could it be that there are actually enough trainers? If not, how many are missing?? On which fleet? How many crews could be trained outside if necessary? Would that be cheaper or more expansive? What are the savings on the other side of the balance sheet? How much more does it cost to have 10 % less trainers versus X numbers of upgrades less? What is the difference?

Why do you care so much about crewing levels in general ( with a contract that honours overtime) ? Do you see a correlation between crewing levels and your pay? If so, how?

I see a group acting purely emotional, driven by rumors and opinions, blaming the invisible other guy for being responsible. For the last 10 years some individuals talk about " interesting times", "the wheels are going to fall off", etc etc, but they never do!

I know you will now fall over me, call me names, etc. But I bet my red lanyard, nobody of you is able to come up with evidence.

[Just Do It]

Yes
No
Yes
Yes
I will get back to you on that one
Yes
Yes
No
Good point...not sure
No
No
All of the above

HOW MUCH TIME DO I HAVE LEFT?

Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
Clearly not on the Airbus!!!
No

[Sam Ting Wong]

Dan, my sincerest apologies. I didn't know that your roster shows a missing crew member next week. Of course that changes everything.You win.

[ColonelAngus]

I see a group acting purely emotional, driven by rumors and opinions, blaming the invisible other guy for being responsible. For the last 10 years some individuals talk about " interesting times", "the wheels are going to fall off", etc etc, but they never do!

Sam Ting,

Spot on.

[White None]

Man up and grow a pairAnyone else bored with hearing this as a battle cry? The implication by the accuser ( not just you Dan ) is that the accused MUST - CLEARLY be in agreement, (I mean there's only one viewpoint right? - Yours), but for reasons of pure lily-livered cowardice is taking the opposite stance.

Ever thought that your colleague may have made a carefully considered cost/benefit analysis, trying to cut out the emotion because, ITS A JOB! in order to come to his opinion? Thought not....

[Yonosoy Marinero]

What are you complaining about STW?

You got awarded the paycut you wanted so badly. Or should I say shoved down your throat?

As long as you don't answer the phone when you're asked not to...

[Weary traveller]

STW, valid argument but don't we receive the same mindset from our supposedly learned managers upstairs? Cost index lowered to reduce fuel burn yet there hasn't been any data considered for the entire equation relating to the additional crew EFP inherent with flying more slowly, additional engine and airframe time etc. Just fuel. Just so that some 'manager' can boast about his personal cost saving measure.

[monster330]

Back on thread

A TC was for second time called on leave and he dropped everything to come do the empires bidding.

Off leave! Again!

Would have thought our Canadian friends would know better.
But to do it twice! What a ****

[Sam Ting Wong]

monster,

can you tell me how many g days per month are transformed into duty days by "g day workers" ??

If you cannot answer this question it is impossible to know the impact of CC. It means you chose to start a war without knowing your own force.

History( and about half of Shakespeare's dramas) should tell you how that can end.

To put it into perspective: if the average pilot in CX works on 15 days per month, there are about 45 000 ( in words: forty-five thousand) regular duty days per month. That means the one case you know represents 0.002 % additional work days.

All I want is to know the facts. No emotions, no fury, no blind attack, just pure facts please.

[monster330]

1. My post referred to a captain on the airbus who again, for second time, came OFF LEAVE to operate as a SO

Not G days- L DAYS

2. Regard your mathematical point, there are times when the minute measurable effect of ones actions transcends its measurable quantity and becomes something far more fundamental and game changing.

It's not all about the maths.

[Sam Ting Wong]

It doesn't matter if it was a G day or L day, that's why I used only 15 average duty days per month, hence another 15 G ,L and U days each month. It is a conservative number I think. But feel free to use only 10 duty days per month, then your case would represent 0.003 %.

The point is that we do not know how many of those extra days are being used, and therefore what impact CC would have.

It's only about math (=money). What else???

[broadband circuit]

STW, you want facts.

At a focus night a few months ago, one of the GC gave an exact number of G days utilised in the previous 12 months. This was a factual number from the company in a JRC meeting.

The exact number is a bit foggy in my memory, but it was about 1010 - 1020. I do remember someone using the calculator their phone to divide it by 365, and the answer was 2.8.

That's 2.8 G day workers EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR, or, 5 every 2 days. Obviously that's an annual average, so during quieter times it will be less per day, and during busier times more.

If those 2 or 3 guys would stop helping out EVERY DAY, then either flights would be cancelled (less likely) or they'd be forced to use reserve coverage and pay EFP to people on reserve (more likely). Either way, it would be an increased burden on resources.

[ColonelAngus]

2 or 3 guys out of 2000 (the average number of pilots who might be available to work on any given day)

Wow. That's gonna make a difference.

[Sam Ting Wong]

BC, thanks for engaging with some interesting numbers. I really appreciate it.

So,let's assume 2-3 G's per day.

I agree with the theoretical severe impact of a possible flight cancellation. Whether that would happen in CC is unclear though, as you said.I personally highly doubt it, but I admit I have no proof for that. But neither have you or anybody else.

If it is only about overtime, clearly 2-3 G's a day won't create a cost problem worth mentioning for the company. We are talking 0.00something %...

Anyway,it would be very easy for the company to increase staff numbers by a handful, it probably long happened.

I think we agree that attrition is something that since I can remember only is "about to happen", but actually never does. The actual figures are just too low to make an impact.The Americans don't leave, as the most of of the MAN or CDG guys have eventually remained putt.

I really do not see a logical correlation between pay and staff numbers, it is totally irrelevant to our pay debate!

Much ( and dangerous) ado about nothing.

If you want to fight, fine. But you need more firepower. Unless you come up with some new ideas I am not impressed.

[dash4blind]

If CC is not going to make any difference then why do you or the company care?

[Sam Ting Wong]

“Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content.
But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life.”

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[broadband circuit]

I really do not see a logical correlation between pay and staff numbers, it is totally irrelevant to our pay debate!

Maybe not so STW, so lets look at some of the other mathematical facts.

The real underlying issue of the matter is the ability to increase staff numbers.

Do you think it is easy for them to recruit qualified applicants with the current package?

There has been a trickle of resignations, admittedly not a flood yet, but let's see what happens in the next 12 - 24 months. A few have resigned in NAM, and at least 2 very senior captains recently in Australia.

Aside from resignations, there's the unfortunate fact that (statistically) a few pilots will lose their medical each year.

And then the biggie - the retirement curve. By extending people to 65, they didn't get rid of the problem, they just deferred it. That happened 5 & 1/2 years ago, so does that mean the problem is in the background for another 4 & 1/2 years? I say likely not, because (once again using historical statistics) most people don't actually go to 65. Most go somewhere around the 60 - 61 mark. So, that wave is possibly about to start.

Add in the fact that the airline is starting an expansion phase. Yes, some of the orders are replacements for -400s & 340s, but the nett result is an expansion. They need to recruit to crew those aircraft plus anyone leaving.

Whether you agree with my figures or not, I'm sure you'll agree there's interesting times ahead.....

[Sam Ting Wong]

Again, I would challenge your claim by asking you for some factual data.

Do you really think any airline in the world would order aircraft worth billions without planning ahead the corresponding crew to fly them? Seriously?

Name me one example, any proper airline in the world, in the history if civil aviation, that prolonged grounded aircraft due to lack of crew. One.


It is distracting and unhelpful to waste energy judging our management and regarding them as retards. Firstly because I think they are not, and secondly because even if they were it would be irrelevant to our pay discussion.

Let's assume for the sake of your argument that Cathay has indeed miscalculated crew numbers, forgot about retirement, expansion needs, fat fingers hitting the wrong key on a calculator etc.

All that would happen is a slower or no expansion, deferrement of orders,the infamous lost opportunities.

What does this scenario has to do with our pay deal? Nothing.

Or,are you saying you fight for a better pay deal because you are afraid of Cathay not attracting enough pilots in the future?

That doesn't make any sense either.

If pay would be a problem regarding recruitment, they could increase the package anytime.

So, again, what has that to do with our current negotiations?

[airplaneridesrfun]

They haven't had to raise enumeration because instead they have been focused in recruiting the lowest common denominator. A warm body over 18 willing to deal with the silliness of CX.

Fortunately, that pool so almost dried up too. Airplane orders are about to offset retirements with -400's and the 340 on the way out, so that gives them a little breathing room.

Just remember, EFP does not get a raise this year, just like last year. Don't let this job slowly kill you from fatigue before you get out of Honkers. You'd likely be better off living on a teachers wage at home, all the while, having a more fulfilling life.

[NoseGear]

STW...Qatar Airways. That's one. Over to you.

Personally, I am sick to death of being treated the way I am by this company. It is utterly disgraceful. The really sickening thing? I WISH that we had leadership and morale as it used to be, when as a pilot body we would willingly pull together in times of crisis to help, knowing that it would be genuinely appreciated down the track. I WISH that this company could be making as much money as possible, it's good for all of us. I WISH to be part of a company that values it's employees and their overwhelming contribution to the overall achievements and accomplishments annually, after all, it isn't the 3rd floor or the 9th floor that wins awards, it's our front line staff. I truly WISH that the company would see us as an asset and not a combatant or a liability. But I fear that I wish too much and I will never see a period of morale and success as CX did in the 80s and 90s....and the really sad thing is? It would take so little effort to get us onside and back to that state:ugh::ugh:

[Lowkoon]

STW - Peach, Another. Cancelled hundreds of flights for the entire summer schedule, reason, lack of crew and unable to upgrade their FOs.

Budget carrier Peach to cancel 448 flights due to lack of pilots | The Japan Times (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/04/24/business/corporate-business/budget-carrier-peach-to-cancel-448-flights-due-to-lack-of-pilots/#.VHW6cIeCJe4)

[Sam Ting Wong]

At that time Peach just more or less started to operate, total numbers of pilots 58..

As far as I remember Qatar grounded 787 because of tech reasons, I don't recall any serious ops interuptions because of lack of pilots.

But ok, accepted.

It actually proves my point, since neither Peach nor Qatar is offering an attractive package today. So either pay was or is not the issue, or higher pay would be costlier than ops interruptions.

My main argument is that it doesn't matter to our pay discussion now. If you are right and Cathay is facing a crew shortage in the future, and it would be a shortage because of people leaving/not applying because of inferior pay, then management could raise the package with a key stroke.

It is irrelevant to us now.

It is further irrelevant how some of us judge the recruitment policy in general, quality of SO etc. All that matters is if enough applicants, suitable in regard of the companys profile, get attracted. And if if they don't get enough new pilots, it doesn't mean an automatic pay rise. It just don't.

Sadly, it is also irrelevant what we wish for, NG, although I personally agree with your assessment and sentiment.

[ColonelAngus]

Sam Ting Wong,

American Airlines Group said Friday that it will transfer at least 50 planes away from its Envoy Air unit, leading to more shrinkage at the regional carrier.

A spokeswoman wouldn’t say how many jobs would be cut, but the pilots union said each plane represented 10 flying jobs — 500 total. Envoy has about 2,400 pilots.

American has been shrinking Envoy since March, when union pilots rejected a contract offer that they said included a pay freeze and benefit cuts. American is trying to limit the cost of its regional service, called American Eagle, partly by outsourcing some of the flying. American uses 11 regional carriers to operate Eagle flights.

American Senior Vice President Kenji Hashimoto said in a memo to employees that the decision to move the planes was based solely on forecasts that the regional carrier won’t have enough pilots to operate its planned schedule next year.

Read more here: American Airlines shifting more planes away from Envoy | American Airlines | American Ai... (http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/11/21/6309025/american-shifting-more-planes.html#storylink=cpy)

[plainpilot11]

JoBlo. Steer clear of picking on G-day workers until our weak-kneed Association actually calls for it. Anything less than a concerted effort will fail to produce the desired results, as we can all see already.

They haven't called for it yet, so back off.

[Shep69]

It may not be a flood yet.

But the shenanigans and dishonesty that's occurred over the past 6 months has ALOT of people updating logbooks and sending out applications/resumes.

Folks previously happy have been seeing things they had heard of (as what they though of as simply whinging, legend, and rumor) but didn't believe to be true--now being proven in front of them. And are contemplating a change of direction they hadn't been considering before at all.

Folks reach a breaking point. They don't want to go, but they sit wide eyed at the goings on thinking things like "you have GOT to be kidding me--these are the people at the helm ?!!?" And that other airlines are senority driven (with MANY, MANY slots to open up--for whatever reason) have to make a rational decision to get into somewhere new and have decent senority 10 years down the road, or to stay here. If it comes down to folks being unhappy with staying (especially if it means the next 20 years are like the past year) they WILL leave. How anyone charged with operating an airline at a profit wouldn't see this is beyond belief--yet that's what is happening. Doesn't matter how many toys are in the pipe.

People are an investment--skilled labour takes ALOT of money to make it skilled. And it takes ALOT of money to train someone to replace a mid-level experienced person who suddenly decides this isn't the place for them. ALOT more than a reasonable pay rise and reasonable rostering.

Used to be a future in staying here seemed bright for many; maybe now not so much.

[Pucka]

She's, the whole crux of the CX mandate towards pilots is this..they have decided to factor OUT experience..it simply has no place in their future ethos. Witness the starter packs we get as SO's..proven to date that as they gestate towards command...small...c.. That to date...no hulls have been lost..bottom lines haven't been degraded as such, so the simplicity of not accepting experience is key in this industry, will become the norm.

[OK4Wire]

I heard a rumour that the training school in ADL wants to chop the ENTIRE course.

Needless to say, our mangers (sic) are not going to stand for that.

[Will IB Fayed]

Heard the same a couple of days ago. I believe it was because none of them could speak English.

[Trafalgar]

F@ck the G day workers. Every one of them. They are undermining the long term best interests of the majority. Every one of them will pay a heavy price their entire careers.

[Threethirty]

It seems most of them are on the 777.

[bm330]

We could start with the guys who actually call CC looking for flights.

[kenfoggo]

Crikey! Pilots actually calling up to go flying and earn some money?!?! Where will it all stop?

[Anotherday]

Kenfoggo, you sound like one of them. Did you decide a few weeks back to go to LHR, call up crew control and ask them to boot the crew off the LHR trip so you could do it on your G days. And not give a rats arse that it was a requested trip for the crew you had booted off?
Nice

[kenfoggo]

Nope, that was not me. Can I do that? I wouldn't mind a trip to LHR. BUT until somebody in the AOA gets off their butt and activates CC which 90 odd per cent voted for (twice), if I was so minded, what is to stop me? ( just playing devils advocate).

[Pucka]

Axing of the whole Adelaide course apparently wasn't the issue..it was a complete overhaul of the course, it's content and the way it's core components could be reworked and that included a fast track of English Language level skill. The requirement is to parallel with CTC Hamilton and a wee bit more, ie less. The plan is to reduce the ATPL freeze to around 100 hrs. Ab initial SO's would then undergo in house CX development courses via extra CBT, Fixed Base and sim. Easy J are doing something similar and cadets get an "Easy Degree" in the bag as well, making the academic incentive a higher priority than the aviation segment. Welcome to the new world.

[crewsunite]

I recentely turned down a very handsome overtime G day call.
Its so annoying to see the G-taker to complain about roster instability and working and then collecting handsomely from it.

There are not many out there, but seriously guys. You need to show some respect to your work mates.

We're in this for the long haul, lets fix this proper!

[Anotherday]

Disagree,

Just did my third block of reserve in as many months. Not called out once, looked through the large number of flights missing crew, nearly all (90%)filled with G Day workers. I'd say there's at least 300-400 guys calling up crew control to work G days and help the company out.
Has the number of guys working Gs increased in the past few months?

[missingblade]

Its fairly obvious that the G day boys are getting most of the overtime.

CC has a list of willing G day workers and reward them with juicy flights that lead to some overtime. Win/win.

Thats why you and I sit on reserve and don't do much....

[BlunderBus]

Several airlines have ordered aircraft they couldn't crew including us. We took ZK-NBS a brand new 744 from air NZ for 2 years along with our first 2 A340-200's from PAL before your time I guess!
Your summation of 2-3 G' days comment is ball park accurate though because the 'company' had an accumulated deficit of 9,000 G days that had been worked but that they refused to pay for and simply 'wrote off'. They used to pay you AND reinstate the G day.
Before making sweeping remarks you might want to brush up on local history. In addition I just had four consecutive 100+ hour months and 3 consecutive months of incomplete crews transpac...obviously no shortage there!!
"Sometimes, a shortage of pilots forces them to keep the planes grounded. For example, Biman has to keep a new Boeing 777-300ER on standby four days a week"... financial times.
"The decision to ground the Army's brand new Apache helicopters for up to four years because of a pilot shortage was today branded as "wasteful"...usa today
Japanese carriers ground aircraft and cancel large numbers of flights due to lack of crew"..seattle times.
"mismanagement at boeing crashes replacement 737 jet"..CBS
NO it just couldn't be possible that managers screw up!

[Sam Ting Wong]

Maybe you are right, hard to proof, but point taken.

I still believe we vastly overestimate the impact of CC. I am never ever in significant over time, and I do not believe you flying 100+ hrs is so hurtful for the company. I bet you haven't had a sick day in a long time, neither did you refuse to go into discretion.

At CX we have the tendency to ask the invisible, evil "other" to fight. All the people I talk to on the line never bring forward anything they will change themselves. We instate recruitman bans, demonize "the G day worker", talk about inferior cadets, etc etc. And if that doesn't help we turn to the CEO, the SCMP, or to some sort of moral conspiracy theory, a big evil plan smouldering behind the curtain. But it is never US who has to change, to do something significant, something that could be harmful for my OWN career. I am not impressed and extremely sceptical about CC in its current outlay, much too easy for the company to simply sit it out. I think it will harm us more than we can imagine today. I respect other opinions of course, if the AOA calls for it I will do my part,clearly I am in a minority here.

Time will tell.

[Ex Douglas Driver]

How about the Friday Firelighter comment that they had to cancel LAX and LHR flights last week? Was it due to pax loading as they claim, or was it crewing.... who really knows the true story?

[Sam Ting Wong]

That is precisely my point. We do not know.

[Lowkoon]

Truth isnt exactly a strength of the organisation, hence one of the lowest 'engagement' scores in corporate history in that last embarrassing survey.

[ColonelAngus]

At CX we have the tendency to ask the invisible, evil "other" to fight. All the people I talk to on the line never bring forward anything they will change themselves. We instate recruitman bans, demonize "the G day worker", talk about inferior cadets, etc etc. And if that doesn't help we turn to the CEO, the SCMP, or to some sort of moral conspiracy theory, a big evil plan smouldering behind the curtain. But it is never US who has to change, to do something significant, something that could be harmful for my OWN career.

Sam Ting Wong, you are correct. How 'bout the guys who took upgrades to replace the fired 49ers stating, "well, if I didn't do it, someone else would," while sitting back and pointing the finger at those who joined during the "recruitment ban?" No risk to them, no change for them, but the new guys are demonized.

Typical around here.

[BlunderBus]

Actually STW I follow your point of view and it is somewhat valid however I would be thrilled to hear you actually suggest something. I don't expect too much from CC but at the least it should define in real terms the measure of goodwill and it's effect on real line operations. If the company interpret CC as industrial action or disruptive then by definition they must admit to relying on it and abusing our basic contractual terms....as they obviously do.
Where does it say that C/CTL can change a break day to a duty? EXB is defined in vol A as "free from ALL duties" yet I'm constantly assigned duties on rostered EXB's...all for free of course. Like 30 days unpaid reserve on a base? really? Who DOES that?
Nope..things must change and if you view CC as unpalatable so be it but I for one no longer wish to work for nothing on either L G or break days..(which I most definitely DO NOT)
When I turn up I want to be paid and I want that pay to keep abreast of it's spending value.

[BlunderBus]

And Angus..if you choose to join any airline seniority based during a dispute that included illegal random sackings..then you better expect to cop some flak!!
your choice

[ColonelAngus]

Blunder is a good name for you.

In any airline where the majority of the pilots had any backbone, the sacking of 49 pilots would result in the immediate shutdown of the airline and picket lines across the front of Kitty City and the airport terminal.

Even if every one of the pilots lost his or her job, that is what pilots, when directed by REAL union, do.

Anyone who crossed those picket lines would be considered a scab.

A recruitment ban is just another pu$$y-ass attempt at pretending to care while RISKING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Have members of our GC who took upgrades to fill the places of the 49ers copped any flak?

Get real.

[bm330]

Have members of our GC who took upgrades to fill the places of the 49ers copped any flak?

The group of GC members that were in Elementary School at the time might want to ask around to find out what went on.

[etopsmonkey]

You will probably find G-day workers at the company party on 12 Dec.

[BlunderBus]

You're about to see a demonstration that defines the difference between living in a country that values and upholds labour laws and the one we work in.
You can talk 'pussy assed' all you want.. I'm betting you weren't there to see it... Or pay for it...

[ColonelAngus]

Blunder, you'd lose your bet. I will still talk "pussy-assed" about those who failed to risk losing THEIR jobs by shutting the company down the day the 49ers LOST THEIRS!

[Shep69]

At this juncture, anyone working G/L days for any reason whatsoever is a

Selfish
Counterproductive
Alienating
Bonehead

No other word for it.

[BlunderBus]

At the risk of using the forum for a slanging match perhaps you'd care to enlighten us with exactly what action you took during that time?? For (near) future reference of course.

[ColonelAngus]

I took any and all actions as directed by the AOA. Oh, wait, the AOA didn't direct any actions. Yup.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Blunderbus,

I don't think it is my turn to suggest anything. I voted yes on the pay offer because I didn't know any alternative, and I don't know a better ( and achievable) strategy now. In my opinion it is up to the guys who voted no to come forward with a feasible and effective strategy.

I said it before, and I will say it again, I voted yes not because I thought it is a fair and generous offer, but for the reasons above and because the GC recommended it

[BlunderBus]

Well said STW..a perfect example of just let everyone else do the work and you collect. Just to set the record straight the GC's 'recommendation' was in fact a condition imposed by the company during bargaining. A red flag if ever I've seen one. The commitee's viewpoint was to take the payrise offered (unconditionally) and continue to lobby for a better deal..which I agreed with.
Angus..if that is/was your sentiment regarding the AOA's handling of proceedings pre/post 49-ers then why be a member..then or now? As with any 'industrial action' there are legal boundaries much as the UK/EU guys are facing now. The escalation, in increments including a hiring ban, was fully endorsed by the international pilot union bodies at the time. Your reaction to it makes me wonder if you were actually one of those inconvenienced by it. Why else would it bother you? A full blown strike may or may not have done the trick but with DT, a particularly aggressive ceo, at the wheel the consensus at the time(not just local sentiment)was that he was prepared to shut down operations..and re-employ everyone on much reduced contracts. The precedent of the Australian domestic debacle in the late eighties set the tone and showed that airlines can and will bring operations to a complete halt, and a country's travelling public to their knees(with a little help from the govt of course), in the course of breaking a union and destroying thousands of pilot's lives. I believe personally that he was prepared to do just that. That occurred in a country that far outweighs this one in the delivery of justice.
I too became disgruntled so when the self elected and short lived MG sold our FTL's and contracts down the river and pushed through a pro company motion to turn their collective backs on the 49-ers...I and a few hearty souls formed the CPU (at great expense) solely to fund the court case(s) being fought by those illegally terminated pilots and to continue financially supporting their wives and children...for 11 years.
So whatever you think of my opinions here...Whereas you advocate striking (anonymously)..There are many others who have put their money where their collective mouths were for years, stood up financially and legally for their sacked colleagues, and actually did something to bring about a successful legal result (albeit the hk version of one) for the 49-ers and made the ratbags who perpetrated these events admit their actions in the public eye.
What did YOU do exactly....errrrr....I thought so!

[valhalla634]

Well said Blunderbus. There are many fighters here (anonymously) that state all sort of actions that should have been done but your reality check on HK and DT was spot on.

[Sam Ting Wong]

So, Blunderbus, what are YOU going to do?

[BlunderBus]

I know for a fact that the company relies on thousands of G days worked 'off roster' every year. They always have. CC is a small start I admit but if it is indeed as ineffectual as they say then why do they make such a big deal about it? Just leave us all alone on our days off and Leave days. Do they do that? Ask yourself. Captains being the most expensive to employ full time will get the most requests to work as do relief qual F/O's. Extensions of duty, split duty, reduced rest and ULH crewing...none of these disruptions would be happening if, as they say, we are fully crewed. There's no intimidation from the top (tongue in cheek) so what's the problem politely refusing to do anything we're not paid for at penalty rates? It's a bit hard to ask for a pay increase when it's obvious we'll do it all for free! Let's give it a try and see.
Productivity, scheduling and crewing are all tighter now than previously managed so what's the harm?
It doesn't require much effort.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Great debating skills, respect.

Honestly, what are you ( and valhalla) going to do?

[joblow]

Well now that CC has been started let's see how many G day workers are out there
Irrespective of whether you are in the union or not, you are hurting your fellow crew members by working on G days so it's about time you took the inconvenience with the rest of us .
Once all the facts are known and this is very important. Perhaps instituting a name and shame should be considered . Be it here or the union web site I care not , but there should be consequences should you choose to screw your compatriots for your own personal gain