Ex-GR Nav, Wg Cdr (Retd) Paul Smyth, to run for Parliament

[TdotEdot]

Wg Cdr (Retd) Paul Smyth, current UKIP Councillor in Norfolk County Council for Swaffham and ex-Tornado GR1/4 Nav, has been selected by UKIP to run for Parliament in the 2015 elections against the current incumbent, the Secretary of State for DEFRA, Elizabeth Truss. Details here - UKIP pick councillor to take on Truss - Politics - Eastern Daily Press (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/ukip_pick_councillor_to_take_on_truss_1_3859170)


Made me think, are there any other recently retired RAF officers in Parliament? I cannot think of any and, if elected, it would be good to see an ex-light blue officer in the House.


Good luck Paul :D

[The Stimulator]

Having known Paul in the past his choice of UKIP surprises me a bit.

Elizabeth Truss seems on the face of it to have done a fair bit of good in her constituency, so she may be a tough one to oust.

[Take That]

Steve Baker, serving MP for High Wycombe is an ex RAF engineering officer, Tornado and Jaguar background.

[jayteeto]

Beats selling Big Macs...........

[diginagain]

Beats selling Big Macs...........The staff at MaccyD tend to get more respect from Joe Public...

[Courtney Mil]

...and have more contact with us!

[Training Risky]

So ballast has other uses...

[skydiver69]

TdotEdot

Made me think, are there any other recently retired RAF officers in Parliament? I cannot think of any and, if elected, it would be good to see an ex-light blue officer in the House.

This isn't quite what you were thinking of but Sir Clive Loader is PCC for Leicestershire.

[Whenurhappy]

I had dealings with Paul Smyth when he was at RUSI - as head of their OPRE Programme. He seems a good guy, but again, UKIP? Probably a better chance of getting in to Parliament, to be fair.

Edited to add: In today's Daily Heil: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2847282/Toxic-Nigel-One-four-voters-fall-friends-discovered-Ukip-supporters.html

[teeteringhead]

Most recent one I can recall is Keith Mans, who was a Tory MP from '87 to '97.

He'd been a Canberra and Vulcan driver (serving '67 to '77 IIRC), and subsequently was Chief Exec of RAeS.

Think he's now Chairman of the Air League.

[Wander00]

Keith Mans was a cadet at the Towers, and I am currently in touch with one of his relatives regarding Children in Need at the kids' sailing club (Salterns) in Lymington. Small world.


Regarding the candidature of Paul Smyth for UKiP, I am reminded of the kid who told his dad that when he grew up he wanted to be a fighter pilot (probably applies to navigators too). His father told him to "make his mind up". cf UKiP - do you want to be a politician or represent UKiP. - members of UKiP will grow up sometime, and realise they are being sold a pig in a poke - but then they will find there is not even a pig! (IMHO and allegedly)

[Capt Scribble]

Supporters of the main parties seem to forget that under Lab/Con/Libs policy the country has been brought to its knees, socially and financially. UKIP have some different ideas which some of us think may work, they certainly can not do any more damage than previous cretins.

[Whenurhappy]

Perhaps it's time to dust off this thread:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/513830-ukip-defence-policy-released-2.html

[Wander00]

Whenurhappy - thanks for the reminder - have re-read, and no more impressed as last time.


Capt Scribble and others - IMHO none of the UKiP policies stands up to scrutiny - what they do is pander to the biased prejudices of, mainly, tabloid readers. What the current Government has done, faster than some would have liked, is to address the deficit they inherited and address the global financial crisis caused partly by bankers and partly by governments that over-reached themselves then borrowed their way out of the consequences. There is another issue that appears not to have been addressed directly, but is evidenced by the slow growth in wages and salaries - before the crunch we, collectively and internationally were paying ourselves over the odds, the UK given its poor levels of productivity, way over the odds. Rant over!

[Whenurhappy]

Not having a go at Paul Smyth (who is a decent bloke) but a country run by UKIP would be like a country run by the local golf club or bowling club. Naivety mixed with xenophobia.

[Clunk60]

Sir Clive PCC for Leicester!!! I feel sorry for them.

[haltonapp]

I've flown with several navigators I would not trust, so I'm sure that one or two might have all the attributes to make an MP!

[muttywhitedog]

Jason McCartney MP is ex-RAF.

[Rosevidney1]

Ah, this must be the place for UKIP bashing for all those adherents to the three main parties ........

[Capt Scribble]

Golf or bowling clubs would normally run a balanced budget or the management sacked. The present crowd have hardly touched the deficit and have allowed the £700Bn Government debt run up by Brown to balloon to £1400Bn. Its still increasing at £5000 per second. Those with a narrow view of the world can not imagine anything but Lab Con failed policies. Its time for a change.

[Willard Whyte]

three main parties

There are 3?

Right now Con/Lab are on around 33/34% apiece.

UKIP are on 15%

LD 8%, Green 5%

From here. (https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/q4rrapo5ra/SunOnSundayResults_141121_whole_sample_Website.pdf)

[MG]

Watch out for Sophie Gardner standing (we stand for parliament, the US run for congress!) in the General Election for Gloucester as a Labour MP.

[Whenurhappy]

Watch out for Sophie Gardner standing (we stand for parliament, the US run for congress!) in the General Election for Gloucester as a Labour MP.

You are joking, aren't you?

[MG]

Nope!
http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Labour-s-Sophy-Gardner-eyes-Gloucester-MP-seat/story-18769154-detail/story.html

[salad-dodger]

First thought was, who?

Looked her up. Fairly typical ex-RAF officer CV, full of overblown hyperbole.

S-D

[TdotEdot]

Thank you all for your replies. Although I am was aware of Sir Clive I was unaware of Keith Manns and the two current ex-RAF MPs, Jason McCartney and Steve Baker. I guess my ignorance was a result of not seeing either of the two current MPs speak up about the RAF cuts on national media whereas I have seen several MPs, all ex-Army, make quite a noise about Defence cuts to their old Service. Maybe I just missed them.


I just hope those future MPs who have served in the RAF, whichever party they represent, remember their roots and speak up for us as we go into SDSR next year.


T.E.

[salad-dodger]

I just hope those future MPs who have served in the RAF, whichever party they represent, remember their roots and speak up for us as we go into SDSR n
I reckon you've got more chance of finding pixies at the end of your garden. It won't be long before they join the majority of the other MPs dipping their snouts into the trough and doing/saying whatever they need todo to keep their seat.

S-D

[Rosevidney1]

Willard Whyte:


I stand corrected and should have said the three traditional parties.

[iRaven]

From Sophy Gardner's web-page, I will now add my own suggested spin :

I grew up in South London. I joined the Royal Air Force after completing a degree in Geography, becoming an air operations officer [[I]isn't it Flight Ops Officer?]. My first posting was in the South West at RAF Lyneham during which time I also deployed to the Congo.

Subsequently I was posted as the sole RAF officer of the Ship’s Company of HMS Invincible which included a deployment to the Balkans in 2000. I was in charge of all RAF transport and refuelling assets worldwide at the time of 9/11 [Really?] and was subsequently awarded the MBE for my Service during this period, when I also oversaw tasking of UK assets in Afghanistan 2001 [along with many others, I hasten to add!] and the transfer of Milosevic to the Hague [did she personally oversee this or was she just 'there']. I became personal staff officer to Commander UK Forces Iraq 2003, visiting most Arab countries in the region. Subsequently, I worked on US-UK Air Force liaison working with the Pentagon.

Later, I deployed to Helmand province, Afghanistan, to assist the arrival of the UK forces in 2006 and then went on to military staff college where I wrote my thesis on military intervention and the US-UK relationship, following on from an MPhil in European Studies in 1994. I then worked in the MOD in Media and Communications before taking command of operations as a Wing Commander at RAF Valley, Anglesey. During my RAF career, I was promoted at the earliest opportunity at every rank, was the first woman in every job I was posted to [is this something to brag about? I thought we were all equal these days?], and worked hard to ensure that I left the opportunities for those coming up behind me in a better state than when I found them. My best experiences have been working with my teams and colleagues, women and men from all backgrounds and of all ages [likely below 55, I would suggest?]. I am a graduate of the US State Department’s International Visitor Leadership Programme.

Frustrated with military life [that must be a different one that you have just 'crowed' on about then!] and the restrictions that imposed on my political views and ability to participate actively in politics [thems the rules since the English Civil War!], I left the RAF in 2011 and set up my own business working with Service charities [is that supposed to be noble? most people give their time to charities for free!]. I worked as the Event Director and Media Lead for the unveiling of the Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park in 2012 which was a demanding brief working with many stakeholders from all over the world. I now work with a variety of charities and also volunteer at a foodbank.

Since becoming politically ‘free’ I have campaigned actively and continuously for the Labour Party [because like all other 'champagne socialists' the other parties won't have me?], including campaigning during the Bristol Mayoral Election and working with the Shadow Defence team on Forces issues [how's that gone then?]. I was selected on 20th April 2013 to be Labour’s Prospective Parliamentary Candidate for Gloucester, 38th on the list of Labour’s target seats.

I’ve moved over 35 times since I left school and so I am very much looking forward to making Gloucester my permanent home [what was wrong with your native South London then?]. I am a member of the Cooperative Party and of Unite [sucking up those lovely Union votes, thank you], and an active supporter of the Labour Women’s Network

I agree with Salad-Dodger's assessment. I would suggest that she appears to be just another incarnate of the current political crop. If only Farage's gang could deliver something more than a gurning, beer supping, nice bloke you'd feel at home with chatting down the pub; then they might get another vote! :(

iRaven

PS. It is Flight Ops Officer - maybe she can't remember! https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/roles/air-operations-support/flight-operations-officer/

[Whenurhappy]

At least she has been on a few Ops, a lot more that can be said for most MPs. And no, she was not the first woman to be in the DMC/DPR(RAF) SO1 slot. IVLP - a week in the US? I'm not sure that I'd put that on your CV, although it does sound good.

[ian16th]

Lord Stansgate, Anthony Wedgewood-Benn, Anthony Benn or Tony Benn et al did his National Service in the RAF.

He would wear an RAF tie when talking about anything aviation, particularly Concord(e).

[teeteringhead]

And of course Norman Tebbitt, who flew Vampires and Meatboxes before his BOAC career (he also flew with the Auxies after his regular service).

Had the immense pleasure of sitting next to him at a Dinner in Westminster last year; amazing to chat to - 95% aviation and 5% politics! :ok:

[RHKAAF]

My wife has just told me of a definition of " POLITICS "

POLY --- Many
TICS ----Parasites

Just about sums it up.

[Fg Off Bloggs]

Ah! I vaguely remember her at The Towers, in the 90s! So she must have done bloody well to be:

in charge of all RAF transport and refueling (Sp - see me!) assets worldwide at the time of 9/11 and was subsequently awarded the MBE for her Service during this period.

Seems she was an acting sqn ldr in Sep 2001 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/56735/supplement/9 - so, yes, in her world that would figure! I suspect, however, that the AOC would have a view on who was in charge!

Bloggs:8

[Thelma Viaduct]

He'll make a great politician if he's a liar and a thief.

[Evalu8ter]

Bloggs - think your dates are about 5 years out. She was doing BFT at Cranwell in the mid 90s. Strange that all that Pilot and Nav training isn't on that CV, along with other 'distractions'.....

Perhaps her career was a lot to do with 'right place, right time' (as are so many...); she stopped flying just as Ops Spt was taking off, had spent years in the flying training system and therefore stood out in a junior branch trying to populate the So2/So1 cadre almost from scratch. Against many of her peers she would have seemed experienced and capable, hence the rapid promotion. Maybe the job at Valley was a step too far - can't comment, wasn't there.


Who doesn't exaggerate the good and attempt to hide the bad on a CV?

[Wrathmonk]

You beat me to it Evalu8ter....

This links to the London Gazette (https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/52726/supplement/18092/data.pdf) of 29 Sep 91.

[Hangarshuffle]

Tebbitt was arguably a very nasty piece of political work, when it mattered to a lot of people. Jury is still out on our recent history and his murky role in it, as far as I'm concerned. Its only in his latter, very elderly years that (some) peoples attitude have softened a little towards him, because he was crippled by the bomb, along with his wife-he didn't deserve that, who would?
Anyway back on the thread, vaguely remember her from way back when and good luck to her.


iraven is a tory spook? Mole? Or just jealous?

[99 Change Hands]

I thought the thread was about Paul Smyth. He had some rather 'old fashioned' ideas when I knew him. Should fit right in.

[Bill4a]

They're a funny bunch in West Norfolk, and as Elizabeth Truss is held in very high esteem, he could have a fight on his hands! I shall watch with interest.

[iRaven]

iRaven is a tory spook? Mole? Or just jealous?

Answer: None of the above.

I just can't stand weasley, half-truth telling champagne socialists - but not so keen on weasley, half-truth telling 'job for life' PPE at Oxford spin-merchants either!

The world would be better off without a profession where there are no real qualifications and all you need to do is is lie and connive in order to save one's chosen job, when you don't really believe it. :mad:

All party colours seem to have them (even UKIP :eek:)!

iRaven


POLY --- Many
TICS ----Parasites :D:D:D

[Willard Whyte]

Hmm, wouldn't vote for a labour candidate even if I were married to one. Can't say I wish anyone good luck just because we once worked for the same company, hope she crashes and burns.

[Training Risky]

Tebbit was arguably a nasty piece of political work

Whoa there tiger. I am not a tory voter, but i think you are spouting some particularly vile labour spin.

What possible 'recent' history could you be referring to? The 80's?

This is a man who had to stand and watch with dignity as the terrorist who disabled his wife was released early.

[Sophy Gardner]

Hi. I don’t have much time to look on the web these days, but I saw this thread and thought it was worth answering because this forum has been so important to me (re Nimrod and Chinook in the past most importantly where this forum was instrumental in campaigning) for what it can achieve. Popped in for a look and saw this about me. Which is a bit weird but fair enough considering I’m a candidate for the General Election.

I wanted to say a couple of things about the comments. In the spirit of PPrune I will probably (definitely!) get a hard time for this - but the RAF is the most formative part of my life so mad though I might be, thought I should…

Air Operations Officer - that’s there because people understand that better plus that’s the title I had in the joint roles I had in my time in the RAF. Flight Operations is fine with me too.

At the time of 9/11 I was OC ASCOT (we all now how unpopular that makes you) and I was the person sitting on the end of a phone trying to sort out where all our assets were and what we needed to do on that morning (I was in the US that day) and subsequently. As you know, the only air assets in Afghanistan for sometime after then were AT/AR assets - and did an amazing job despite a total lack of defensive aids (don’t get me started on that) - and I was the person overseeing that - alongside great planning and tasking squadrons. Clearly, there were many other fantastic people working in the same HQ - I think they would also concede that I was the one mainly on-call 24/7 for ASCOT for several months then.

Re Milosevic - even my bosses didn’t know about that - there were only a handful of people in the UK who were aware - and so I was not just ‘there’.

Re working with military charities - I have done lots of that work free of charge and have been asked to work (paid) at times.

I chose to be member of the Labour Party and so there is no way that I can be accused of ‘other parties won’t have me’. Many of you may not share my politics but those who know me know that I have the same principles and politics I had 20 years ago.

What’s wrong with South London? - Well I’ve not lived there for 26 years and I don’t belong there anymore - I am happy to be living in Gloucester as the first home I have not been posted to. It’s a great place in case you haven’t been here.

How’s it going on Defence issues? We need more people in Parliament who understand the military and will stand up for the people with whom we have served. I am on different sides of the political divide from some, but I love the RAF and will do my best to represent the RAF that gave me the most brilliant experiences of my life. There are MPs on the Conservative side that I am glad to see are ex-RAF and do the same.

I know many of you won’t agree with my politics but I genuinely think we need more of us (RAF/military) involved in politics to stand up for serving military and veterans. Give me a shout if you want to discuss any issues.

With the very best wishes

Sophy

[Whenurhappy]

Sophie,

I think people here should be pleased that you responded. Good luck - whatever anyone else says, you are prepared to stand for something you believe in and I wish you success in this endeavour. Whatever happens, it will be a bit of a roller-coaster experience, I'm sure.

[Thelma Viaduct]

MPs work for corporations, not the electorate. It doesn't matter whether they're self centred sub-human tories or labour, the outcome will be the same.

Same ****, different coloured wrapper.

Just let the MP pricks get on with it, one day soon it will all unravel and they'll be the first to feel the consequences of their nefarious dealings with the corporations and war machine, unless X-factor is on TV that particular evening.

[salad-dodger]

I might be mad to post this but...
I wouldn't say mad, deluded perhaps, like most politicians. Some of us read your webpage. What a waste of time that was. As I said in my earlier post, full of BS and hyperbole. I would like to wish you luck as an ex member of the RAF, but I won't. Not for as long as you associate yourself with the likes of Miliband, Balls, Harperson, Cooper etc

S-D

[iRaven]

Air Operations Officer - that’s there because people understand that better plus that’s the title I had in the joint roles I had in my time in the RAF. Flight Operations is fine with me too.

What a load of rubbish. What next "Directional Consultants" and "Driver Airframe" for Nav/Pilot? If you really love the RAF as much as you claim then you would use the correct title of your branch and be proud of it. :ugh:

I'm sorry Ms Gardner but your Bio/CV would appear to have more spin and 'sexing up' than I care for - did you take advice from Comrade Tony? :E

No wonder there is such a swing towards the gurning Mr Farage away from both main parties; people are plain fed up with the whole politics piece. The latest I'm hearing is that Mr Shapps (Chair - Con) has been sexing up his CV too with conveniently forgetting his lacklustre performance at Watford Grammar School that led him to the local technical college instead of 6th form (unlike the new Global CEO of McDs and also ACAS who went to the same school around the same time). Why can't politicians just be themselves? Which I suppose is the current attraction of Mr Farage.

Thanks for the debate, though! :ok:

iRaven

PS - here is the piece on Mr Shapps http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/sep/08/grants-shapps-altered-wikipedia-entry

[thing]

I wouldn't bother with the diatribes, polies have skins like rhinos.

I believe that Guy Gibson was prospective Tory candidate for Macclesfield.

No wonder there is such a swing towards the gurning Mr Farage away from both main parties; people are plain fed up with the whole politics piece.

Er... isn't he a part of the whole politics piece? Nicely esconced in Europe enjoying all the perks that office entails. At least the man is fairly straight forward about being a chancer.

[Lima Juliet]

Sophy

Gutsy move to come on here, but I can't help thinking the disection of your web page has forced you to. I also feel compelled to disect your latest post as well:

Re Milosevic - even my bosses didn’t know about that - there were only a handful of people in the UK who were aware - and so I was not just ‘there’.

So now it's OK to tell the whole world what only a handful of people knew? Did you get clearance to release this or did you not have an extant non-disclosure agreement of what sounds like a need to know op? If it was so very "hush-hush" then I am suprised to see it on your CV! Or is it convenient that no one knew about it?

Thank goodness you have the 2 Eds at the helm of your chosen ship - if it were his brother David and Alan Johnson then I would be worried!

LJ :cool:

[Lima Juliet]

I've just noted that the quote by iraven at post #29 is different to what is posted now on your web-page:

Sophy is the ex-RAF wing commander who is fighting the Gloucester seat for Labour in next year’s general election. She is deeply committed to establishing a fairer Britain, with an economic recovery working for all, not the few.

She lives in the heart of Gloucester. Having served our country for 19 years, she left the Royal Air Force in 2011 and was one of the youngest women to reach the rank of Wing Commander.

Sophy saw active service in both Iraq and Afghanistan and was awarded the MBE in 2002. During her RAF career, she was promoted at the earliest opportunity at every rank, was the first woman in every job she was posted to, and worked hard to ensure that she left the opportunities for those coming up behind her in a better state than when she found them.

She left the RAF in 2011 and now runs a small business working with military charities.

"The coalition government’s track record of broken promises, failure to tackle mounting debt, and general lack of decency towards Britain’s families inspired me to commit myself to campaigning for a Labour victory in 2015. I promise that I will be Gloucester's representative in Westminster, not Westminster's representative in Gloucester, working my absolute hardest for a bright future for our City."

About - Sophy4Gloucester (http://www.sophy4gloucester.co.uk/about)

Why is that? No mention of Air Operations Officer, either?

I've also found another little nugget of yours:

I supported, and continue to understand, the motivation for the UK’s actions in 2001 when we participated alongside the international community to stamp out Al Qaeda who were embedded and comfortable operating in the mountains of Afghanistan. The RAF led that operation and I was in charge of Air Transport Operations during that time. We were asking a lot of our people, operating old aircraft not properly equipped for the threat, and I think our servicemen and women acquitted themselves well in 2001/2. Later I was in charge of squadron operations as we deployed the Harrier aircraft to Southern Afghanistan in 2005. Again I am proud of the determination of military personnel to make a challenging and complex operation work well.

Read more: Sophy Gardner: My time in Afghanistan | Gloucester Citizen (http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Sophy-Gardner-time-Afghanistan/story-20974302-detail/story.html#ixzz3QRgVDpAd)
Follow us: @GlosCitizen on Twitter | GlosCitizen on Facebook

I am sure there is a Harrier Sqn OC and some Flt Cdrs that would beg to differ on who was "in charge".

Also, I noted "The RAF led that operation" - that's not really true either. Yes, it was Air Marshal Stirrup but he was appointed the UK National Contingent Commander by PJHQ which is a joint operation. There were quite a few assets from 40 Commando and others actually taking the bad news to AQ and the Taleban whilst the RAF provided AWACS and AAR assets. So even though I am light blue, I wouldn't be so bold to state "The RAF led that operation"!

LJ

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Taking you at your word, Sophy.


Please explain why Labour's top 3 priorities (Education,Education & Education) caused a drop in PISA rankings in Science from 4th in the World to 20th?
And why, for the first time in history, every scientific institution in the UK put aside their differences and united in opposition to Labour Government policy, joined by the Select Committee on Education of the House of Lords?
If you can't, I can.

Please explain why Gordon Brown decreased the Defence budget 4 times during wartime, then lied about it.
If you can't, I can.

Please, please, explain what happened in Rotherham?
If you can't, I can.

[Corporal Clott]

I now know what Air Operations Officers (read Flight Operations) do...

http://mhpccom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/election2015/files/2014/06/sophy-gardner.jpg

...they stand in front of the Visual Control Room Staff and get in the way so that the the Tower Controller can't see the aircraft.

Genius!

CPL Clott

[Skeleton]

I was there as a PFOM when the Flight Operations Officer role was introduced and they initially received no training on how Operation rooms, Squadron Ops etc went about there business. Little surprise then they generally floundered when expected to supervise a Station Operations room etc. What ever training they had in my experience had also made them adverse to learning about the workings of TG9 and the role of a AATC within it, the very people they were supposed to supervise.
Fast promotion was available in a new trade, I have no idea of the criteria but the more "experienced" IE failures from other trades did appear to be the ones promoted first.
I remember the prospective Candidate for Gloucester well, not surprised she has chosen to describe herself as a "Air Operations Officer" because she ticked all of the above boxes and then some, libel laws prohibited me from posting what i actually think about her performance.

[thing]

they stand in front of the Visual Control Room Staff and get in the way so that the the Tower Controller can't see the aircraft.

That looks uncannily like our Gazza with the headset on...

[Mahogany_Bomber]

Skeleton,

while you are perfectly entitled to your opinions, including those on the introduction of Flight Operations Officers, your second paragraph is quite odious and indicative of the worst aspects of the casual casting of aspersions that internet anonymity enables. An individual who is courageous enough to come on this forum overtly and is prepared to argue their case, is to be given at least a modicum of respect, whatever you think of their politics or how their CV (which no doubt is trying to be all things to all men) is written.


You say you are unable to speak freely due to libel laws, a poor excuse to attach to the insinuations you are willing to anonymously put into the public arena. As I understand it, you state that she "ticked all of the...boxes" (your words not mine) of:

no training
generally floundered
averse (I presume that's what you meant, no "d") to learning
I've no personal axe to grind here (a Flight Ops Officer myself, you and I would no doubt agree on a wide range of issues about how the specialisation was introduced and subsequently (mis)managed). That said, I never served with Sophy and I know nothing of any detail about her career (and as I'm not a Gloucester voter her political views are of no interest to me), but I do know that she became OC Ops at RAF Valley. Not a bad achievement for someone you suggest had no training, who generally floundered and was averse to training.
MB

[Two's in]

The disappointing thing about US politics is it has become so polarized that civilized discourse is no longer possible. No sooner has candidate A made some announcement, regardless of whether they are a Republican or a Democrat, before Candidate B's media team hit the media with actual pictures of the pig they had carnal knowledge with, the dope dealer they used in high school, and the defrocked priest they shared a summer cabin with.

It's all very tedious and predictable, and as a result, the country is now a run like a 3rd world festering ****ehole, while the DC politicians frantically fiddle over the flames of Rome.

How uplifting it is to see that back in blighty politics is still the arena of well considered dialogue, careful and analytical dissection, and non-partisan support from lofty intellectuals who always play the ball, not the man (or woman).

I'll be writing to my sister in Gloucester and asking her to vote for Sophy Gardner as a matter of principle.

[longer ron]

I'll be writing to my sister in Gloucester and asking her to vote for Sophy Gardner as a matter of principle.

Before you do that - you might want to take a look at the useless dipsticks in charge of the Labour Party - they are atrocious :)

And before anybody says it - I am not a tory fan - I have been screwed by tories and labour all my life - I have an extremely low opinion of most politicians !
However to vote for somebody just because they are ex 'something' would be a little naive - having said that politicians of all parties rely on naivety from many voters LOL

When some of us vote we probably vote for whom we believe will do the least harm to our country rather than whom we believe will be the best.

Our previous 'leaders' (Broon and Mandy) were absolute shockers :(

[Tankertrashnav]

Well I still won't be voting Labour, but congratulations to Sophy for stepping into the lions' den. A mauling was predictable knowing the political views on PPRuNe which generally range from slightly left of centre to barking mad hard right.

By the way, K & C is being strangely silent on this! Maybe he doesn't look at Military Aviation?

[Chris Kebab]

Regardless of the politics I do find it rather unedifying seeing those having a pop for whatever reason doing so by hiding behind a shield of anonymity whereas at least Sophy had the balls (metaphorically speaking) to post under her real name.

[Flap62]

I am also rather hesitant to get involved in an anonymous debate about politics and personalities and it is appreciated that Ms Gardner has come on here to defend her position, but....


I was in charge of all RAF transport and refuelling assets worldwide at the time of 9/11

That is not bigging up one's CV, that is quite simply a lie to make her look more important. Ms Gardner, you were not "in charge", you simply were part of a very large team involved in the day to day running of some operations with responsibility to senior officers above you for that management role. Like many other posters on here I have, in the past, programmed, phase run, been duty authorising officer with direct responsibility for day to day flying on a Sqn (oh, and occasionally flew too!). In no way would I ever say I was "in charge" of a Sqn despite arguably having more direct control over the assets "under my command" than you had.

While other parts of your "CV" could be excused as being slight hyperbole, that part above is simply an untruth and leads me to question your integrity (not that integrity is in any way a requirement for a Member of Parliament).

[The B Word]

I'll be writing to my sister in Gloucester and asking her to vote for Sophy Gardner as a matter of principle.

And there was I thinking that Mrs Pankhurst's Suffragette's had won a hard fought battle for women to have an independent vote! :rolleyes:

If you are doing this just because she was in the military that makes you equally silly in my opinion.

As for another poster's "not being a Gloucester voter then her political views are of no interest to me" - I would strongly suggest that they are! If Ms Gardner gets into Westminster then her views will have a voice that could affect every single one of the UK population, especially if we head towards another 'hung parliament'.

The B Word

[The B Word]

Chris Kebab

Re: anonimous posters

The issue is that Queen's Regulations (QRs) specifically exclude those serving from having an identifiable political view in public - so if our personas go public as you suggest then we would be guilty of breaking QRs!

As iraven eluded to in post #29, the military has had to be non-political since the times of the end of the English Civil War - as he says "thems the rules".

Now that Wg Cdr (Rtd) Gardner is retired she is now free to spout her political views and also post whatever nonsense she likes on her own webpage - that is the beauty of our free country that the military we all serve/served in protects.

Make sense?

The B Word

[sharpend]

Well I live in Gloucestershire but will not be voting for Sophy.

But before anyone springs to the defence of any political party over military matters, tell me one party in the last twenty years that have ensured that the defence of our nation is safe. Since Mrs Thatcher, we have never had anyone who had had any idea of military matter (amazingly she did, but only listening to those who were in the know). Billions of pounds have been wasted!

I have just had the new notice of where my taxes are spent... twopence on defence, billions on welfare and oversea aid. Where would we be now without politicians like Churchill who not only understood the importance of defence, but had some experience?

Chamberlain or Churchill; you choose!

[Chris Kebab]

Well aware of that B-Word me old. I simply called it unedifying, that's all. And I still think it is.

[The B Word]

CK

That is, all well, if the poster is of course 'Sophy Gardner' - it could be someone joshing with all of us! Ah, the pitfalls of a bulletin board! :ok:

The B Word

[JAJM]

Sophy, if Labour wins the general election in May, what can the Armed Forces (realistically) expect to see in terms of personnel and equipment increase? How many front-line flying Squadrons could the RAF realistically see, from each aircraft discipline? Apart from the new (or relatively new, depending on type) aircraft that have already been planned and ordered (and even delivered), realistically, how many more aircraft could also be implemented in to service? What other aircraft types (such as Gripen, F-15SE, for example) are also being considered for potential service, by Labour, as replacements for the Jaguar force? Again, what would the realistic likely numbers be?

I am asking you this here, because I am yet to see anything interesting with regards to defence, from all of the main parties.

[Biggus]

Sophy,

My advice, for what little it is worth, is that, while you are perfectly at liberty to do so, you are wasting your time posting on this particular website.

In attempting to become a UK member of parliament (for non UK readers) you have chosen to join a profession, that of full time politician, that I believe is generally held in very low regard (perhaps even contempt would be accurate) by both members of the UK armed services and the UK population as a whole.

I also believe that, with the possible exception of Harrier pilots (that is an attempt at humour!) most members of the UK military are generally quite modest about their accomplishments while in the service. Exaggerating, or "bigging up", ones CV might be standard practice, or even a necessity, in the "real world", but it doesn't sit well with military readers.

Finally, once again in my opinion, your politics themselves are not natural bedfellows with the majority of serving members of the UK military.

Thus, in summary, I consider you are on something of a hiding to nothing on this particular website. Perhaps you should take a leaf out of your party leaders approach to this election, and stick to your core vote rather than trying to persuade anyone.

I wish you neither good nor ill fortune in your quest to become an MP. I suspect that since you seem to ideally fit the Labour Party's criteria, especially in times of all female selection lists, that if you don't succeed in your first attempt then you will be parachuted into a safe Labour seat in the next year or two. Thus it is likely to be a case of "when" you become an MP, not "if".

Time will tell.

[Corporal Clott]

Anyone got a bag, I think I'm going to be ill...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_309hJB_4Bo

...I don't who is the bigger sychophant, 'the leader' or 'the led'? :eek:

CPL Clott

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Putting the sicko into sycophant, eh?

Thanks for doing the dirty work, Cpl, saving the rest of us the bother.

[Lima Juliet]

Whilst trying to hold down my Sunday Lunch I thought I would see what Paul Smyth has written about him - as Biggus so righly points out 'less is more' when it comes to bio/cv writing.

Paul Smyth will be trying to oust Environment Secretary Elizabeth Truss from her seat at the 2015 elections after he was selected at a party meeting in Thetford.

Mr Smyth was unanimously selected by party members.

A former RAF Tornado Navigator, Mr Smyth spent 25 years in the air force and retired at the rank of Wing Commander.

He undertook two tours of duty at RAF Marham and worked for a defence think-tank, RUSI, after leaving the forces.

Mr Smyth joined UKIP in 2013 and was elected as Norfolk County councillor for Swaffham the same year.

He is Chairman of the County Council’s cross-party Communities Committee which has oversight of 13 Service Delivery areas including the Norfolk Fire & Rescue Service, Libraries, Trading Standards and Public Health.

LJ

[Whenurhappy]

Irrespective of the politics they may represent, if these two people were standing in my constituency, I know which one I'd vote for. (and I've managed to hold down my supper...just).

[Lima Juliet]

If the Labour spin doctors had written the same press release it would have read like this (probably):

Mr X will be trying to oust David Cameron's Environment Secretary Elizabeth Truss from her seat at the 2015 elections after he was selected at a party meeting in Thetford.

Mr X was unanimously selected by party members against the hardest of competition.

A former RAF Tornado Directional Consultant Mr X spent 25 years in the air force and retired at the incredibly exalted rank of Wing Commander. He has saved the planet on a number of occasions and was God's right hand man against the evil dictatorship of Kraplakistan for which he recieved an OBE.

He undertook two exceptionally high pressure tours of duty at RAF Marham where he was in charge of everything and his intellectual prowess was essential with his leadership of the defence think-tank, RUSI, after leaving the forces.

Mr X joined the Party in 2013 and was elected as Norfolk County councillor for Swaffham the same year with an incredible majority.

He is Chairman of the County Council’s cross-party Communities Committee which has oversight of 13 Service Delivery areas including the Norfolk Fire & Rescue Service, Libraries, Trading Standards, Public Health, kittens and crochet. In his spare time he rescues disabled children that have fallen into the Fens, he gives all his wordly wealth to any charity that will take his cash and has a 3 legged greyhound called "Trotski".

Here is a picture of Mr X whilst in charge of everything in his normal working dress

https://filmgordon.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/the-dictator-movie-trailer-comedy1.jpg

Allegedly...

LJ :cool:

[1.3VStall]

this forum has been so important to me (re Nimrod and Chinook in the past most importantly where this forum was instrumental in campaigning) for what it can achieve.

Funny, then, that your earlier post on this thread is your first, and still only, post on PPRune.

A clear politician in the making: smoke and mirrors in spades!

[kintyred]

It's a great pity that someone who aspires to one of the most important roles in our democracy has no shame in posting a CV like Ms Gardner's. She clearly held a number of reasonably useful, if not exactly critical positions in the RAF and as far as the public is concerned it should only be necessary to know some salient facts about her past. An ex RAF officer with management experience in assisting operations.
I thought I'd read the CV of a new prospective candidate for my local constituency.....a thumbnail sketch that says he's an economics graduate and worked as an accountant, involved in local politics as a councillor before telling me about his pastimes. Seems like a decent bloke but he's not trying to big himself up and I'll make my decision to vote for him on his politics, not how he audited some company accounts.

[iRaven]

After watching the video and being tweeted the picture below, I don't think I'll sleep for the next 90-odd days. :eek:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8ciRDLCEAEo6D2.png

[SimonK]

That video is so beyond utterly cringeworthy.

"hi Ed, I'm Sophy Gardner (PPC!) just in case anyone doesn't know me and I love you and really love her. This is great, I love it here!"
"Sophy, you're great too and we love you more!"

People disconnected from reality.

[minigundiplomat]

As you know, the only air assets in Afghanistan for sometime after then were AT/AR assets

Untrue.








Characters added to make up the requisite number

[Tankertrashnav]

Irrespective of the politics they may represent,

I really hope that when you go to the polls you won't be voting for anyone "irrespective of the politics they may represent". No matter what sort of top bloke the wing commander was when serving (and the fact that he was a nav gets him brownie points in my eyes!), I nevertheless would rather tear up my voting slip than vote for a UKIP candidate.

[Exascot]

At the end of the day, who votes for the individual in a national election? You vote for the party. Look at my last UK constituency, Witney, yes I know, I call him Dave in the pub. When Douglas Hurd retired, Shaun Woodward took over. When he defected even if he was a good guy (doubt it) do you honestly think that the Chipping Norton set would vote Labour. They would prefer to run themselves over with their Range Rovers or hang from the beam of their 17C farmhouse by their Armani scarf.

[salad-dodger]

Agreed. I don't think you could get much worse as an MP then Jonathan Djanogoly, but he will get in again. Huntingdonshire doesn't choose MPs of any other party.

S-D

[Clunk60]

Let's look on the bright side, at least us still serving don't have to put up with Ms SG anymore, with that sort of self promoting aren't I great hyperbole she'd be at least a Gp Capt pushing 1* by now....I'd rather she be an MP than that!!

[Haraka]

Huntingdonshire doesn't choose MPs of any other party.
I remarked to John Major when he was on the campaign trail (before he was P.M.)
"You could tie a blue ribbon around the tail of a donkey in Huntingdon and it would get in"
He came straight back,
" I wonder if I should bray somewhere else?"

[Wander00]

JM was a much liked and respected MP in the constituency, and was a good supporter of the RAF locally. Indeed after a "Freedom" parade he came to the civic junket afterwards and spoke to every man and woman who had been on parade. Norma was similarly well-liked and I met her several times presenting cheques from Wyton to her particular charities. Several years later the Majors appeared at the yacht club of which I was Secretary for a relative's "wake". John and Norma came straight over "Hello, W, how are you", from both of them. I was quite taken aback, but well impressed. my staff were too!

[Megaton]

Edwina Currie was fairly impressed by John Major too.

[Wander00]

Wot, even the (allegedly) grey shreddies!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Back to the very Basics, indeed.

[sharpend]

I note that Anne Soubry Minister of State for Defence is speaking in the House as I write his. Looking as her history what on earth are her qualifications for her post???

[Wander00]

She got elected..........

[sharpend]

She got elected only very recently and only as an MP. She was appointed as a minster. I asked what qualifications has she to decide what is best for our Armed Forces.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

1. Doing whatever DC wants
2. See point 1.

[Lima Juliet]

I shouldn't worry about Anna Soubry after May as she has the 20th smallest majority in the house as she won with a majority of 389 or 0.74% of the vote in 2010 in her constituancy. I would predict that her replacement will be wearing a red or purple/yellow rosette if the local populace get their way.

LJ

[Biggus]

In post 44 Sophy Gardner says:

I am happy to be living in Gloucester as the first home I have not been posted to. It’s a great place in case you haven’t been here.

However, rather than being a specific location of choice, it would appear to be more a case of where she could finally get chosen as a Labour Prospective Parliamentary Candidate. It would appear this was her third attempt, as the quote from the Gloucester Labour website states

Gardner was previously shortlisted for the Feltham and Heston and Rotherham selections. Shortlisted twice previously, but not selected, see

Gloucester CLP select their PPC | LabourList (http://labourlist.org/2013/04/gloucester-clp-select-their-ppc/)

and see:

Feltham and Heston ? The Shortlist | LabourList (http://labourlist.org/2011/11/feltham-and-heston-the-shortlist/)

http://labourlist.org/2011/11/feltham-and-heston-candidate-selected/

Rotherham by-election shortlist announced | LabourList (http://labourlist.org/2012/11/rotherham-by-election-shortlist-announced/)

http://labourlist.org/2012/11/soarah-champion-selected-in-rotherham/

No doubt Sophy also thinks that Rotherham and Feltham are "great places"?

I'm sorry if Sophy or anyone thinks the above comments are unfair since I am anonymous and she isn't, but they all come from Labour Party websites, are in the public domain, and as a prospective politician Sophy must expect her actions to come under more scrutiny than most - it goes with the territory I'm afraid!

[dragartist]

Haraka, Re your #82.
Do you recall the "Dead Ferret in Blue" reports in the Hunts Post of the same era as your Donkey sketch? That caused quite a fuss and rumbled on for quite a time. I think it even prompted me to contribute to the HP letters page as I have on several occasions. most famously on Alconbury runway not being exploited due to poor transport links and noisy aircraft. Almost 20 years on I don't see many of the jobs promised.


The lady opposite me was one of his canvassers. the night he was elected she received a visitation as he wanted to personally thank all his supporters. I looked out of the bedroom window and thought it was the men in the black Omega coming for me after midnight! Surprisingly this was on the Oxmoor estate!!


JM is several orders of magnitude better than the current incumbent. He was on first name terms with my daughter when he called in at Hodsons chip shop on a Friday night until a year or so ago.


Wander, I concur. He and Norma did quite a lot for the local community. I was involved in school governing and other community work at the time and met Norma on a number of occasions.

[Thelma Viaduct]

He was on fist name terms with my daughter when he called in at Hodsons chip shop on a Friday night until a year or so ago.

You should correct that.

[Haraka]

dragartist ; see yer PMs :)

[smujsmith]

Tell you what fellows, I would vote for a dead ferret rather than any LibLabCon representative in modern times, none of whom put our country at the top of the priority tree. Maybe that exposes my ignorance as an ex SNCO, rather than a recipient of the wisdom of a Commission, but just like all of the Commisioned votes, I have one too, and I will use it, not follow family routine. UKIP, Greens whatever, if it's not LibLabCon, it will get my vote, at 62 years old, I've seen enough two faced CaMorons in my life.

Smudge:ok:

[salad-dodger]

Maybe that exposes my ignorance as an ex SNCO, rather than a recipient of the wisdom of a Commission, but just like all of the Commisioned votes, I have one too, and I will use it, not follow family routine.
That ignorance is not because you were a SNCO smuj, that is just plain ignorance. If you think your ability to cast your vote is somehow demeaned by having given non-commissioned service rather than commissioned service, then that is really rather sad. Unfortunately your attitude is all too prevalent.

S-D

[Vasco dePilot]

Is this the same Paul Smyth who was on 27 in 1984?

[thegypsy]

Many years ago when he was a F/O I flew with an ex Harrier Pilot who was a big wig in UKIP at the time. Name escapes me but I think he lived in Hants/Isle of Wight area.

[99 Change Hands]

Is this the same Paul Smyth who was on 27 in 1984?

Yes it is.

[Thud105]

I think that she clearly has all the attributes required to be a politician, being duplicitous, disingenuous, and with an over-inflated sense of her own importance, that no one else seems to share.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Whatever you may think of Sophy Gardner..

Meanwhile, a third Labour candidate has rejected Blair’s donation. Gloucestershire candidate Sophy Gardner served in the RAF and says:

“I have taken a personal decision that given my criticism of the Iraq war, in which I served, it would be hypocritical of me to accept it. Therefore, I can confirm I would decline this money.”
http://order-order.com/

[Union Jack]

....Therefore, I can confirm I would decline this money.”

Whatever......:rolleyes:

Jack

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

TBB (That B@st@rd Bliar) donated £106,000 to the Labour party for its 106 target seats; Gloucester is #38. Thus Ms Gardner's form of words is probably because she hasn't been formally offered it yet, but fully expected to be offered it.

[Lima Juliet]

I have taken a personal decision that given my criticism of the Iraq war, in which I served, it would be hypocritical of me to accept it. Therefore, I can confirm I would decline this money.”

Well maybe if you'd have served in a more operationally focussed role over the previous 10 years that led to GW2 and had been closer to the high-level intel then you may have a different view? Instead, by apparently sitting behind a similarly 'sexed-up' CV on your website and making a political point about your own service in the RAF, then you are, in my personal opinion, no better [edit] than Mr Bliar.

Furthermore, why your Party would support donations of such kind is beyond me. Why you did not take the money and gift it to the underclass, I don't know either - that would be true socialism. That is just another reason why the 'Champagne Socialism' of today's Labour Party will never, ever, enjoy my vote again since I voted for you in 1997.

LJ

[Pontius Navigator]

Leon, should that be 'no better' rather than 'no worse'?

[Lima Juliet]

Thanks :ok:

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

since I voted for you in 1997.

Leon, your involvement in the incident with the pig, the banana and the vicar's wife could be forgiven as 'high jinks' , but this ?!?! ;)

You know what to do...

[Lyneham Lad]

Well Leon, if you believe Ed Balls, you might repeat your 1997 choice... :eek:

Mr Balls made political capital out of the splits in Tory ranks, assuring voters in a speech last night that Labour would go “nowhere near the huge scale of defence cuts you are going to see under the Conservatives”,

[Lima Juliet]

Reference my foolishness in '97...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4fxr1ww1H1ql1579o1_500.jpg

Or shall I fetch the Mess Revolver...

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/488834585-view-of-a-long-barrelled-revolver-and-six-38-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXk3F%2B4VuOXG6AWfpouL%2Fr99wed%2FQZ4rc 5DOjDwoqCqiS

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Good to see a chap doing the decent thing..................you've got no chance in Politics LJ ;)

[Lima Juliet]

Well done people of Gloucester - you made the right choice! :D:D:D

IMHO, of course...:ok:

[Lima Juliet]

It would appear that I was wrong about the Rt Hon Anna Soubry MP - she has increased her share of the vote by 6.2% over Labour in the Broxtowe marginal seat.

Credit, where credit is due. Well done. :D

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

Equally glad that Galloway has gone. I can remember his PR stunt in a red London bus to Baghdad whilst I was being shot at about 20-30 miles south by AAA!

[Surplus]

Leon, please tell me you that you didn't have 'lock' on the bus and didn't take the shot! Far worse than the '97 incident.

[Secret1]

Very sensible people in Gloucester. OBVIOUSLY!:ok:

[Flap62]

I'm sure that by Monday morning her online profile will reflect that not only did she win her seat but she was made Prime Minister, Secretary General of the UN and captain of the England Rugby World Cup Squad, the first time that a woman has held these posts simultaneously. Well done Air Chief Marshall Sophy VC, Nobel Prize for Physics and Gold Blue Peter Badge winner.

[NutLoose]

Leon, I am puzzled, why six rounds with the pistol, are you such a poor shot at close range? :}

[F.O.D]

I know I am a bluff old traditionalist, but returning to the thread title for a brief interlude, in fact Paul Smyth came second to Elizabeth Truss. This was a significant achievement as he polled nearly 12,000 votes.

[Bladdered]

Picture Gallery: Richard Graham returned as MP for Gloucester | Gloucester Citizen (http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/pictures/Picture-Gallery-Richard-Graham-returned-MP/pictures-26463854-detail/pictures.html)

Sophy looking magnanimous in defeat.