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tony draper
20th Nov 2014, 11:01
I'm beginning to lean more toward Christopher Marlowe as the author.
:)

Back Pressure
20th Nov 2014, 11:19
Kurt Vonnegut Snr :eek:

RJM
20th Nov 2014, 11:20
You'd need pretty good Latin to write like Shakespeare. Marlowe's Latin, by all accounts, wasn't much good.

tony draper
20th Nov 2014, 11:28
Watched a documentary on Shakespeare last night,what it set out to show is that we know almost nothing at all about the life of Shakespeare,and most of the stuff mooted is pure supposition.
It also put forth quite a interesting theory about Mr Marlowe's death being a put up job.
:)

meadowrun
20th Nov 2014, 11:34
I know this........ Shakespeare used 31,534 different words. We use over 60,000. (well, some of us do)


A good case of quality over quantity.

tony draper
20th Nov 2014, 11:43
Quite a few of which he invented,ere whoever he was.:rolleyes:
http://www.shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.html

teeteringhead
20th Nov 2014, 11:55
You'd need pretty good Latin to write like Shakespeare. Marlowe's Latin, by all accounts, wasn't much good. Didn't Ben Jonson say he (WS) had "small Latin and less Greek"?

I think I go along with the theory that the Works weren't written by Shakespeare, but by somebody else of the same name! ;)

oxenos
20th Nov 2014, 12:00
"Mr Marlowe's death being a put up job."

You mean he is still alive? Ask him if he wrote the stuff attributed to WS.

joy ride
20th Nov 2014, 12:51
It is true that we know very little about Shakespeare, but then we know very little about most people of that time.

Blacksheep
20th Nov 2014, 13:26
The Shakespeare works were written by someone who signed himself as Shakespeare (or Shakespear or even Shakspur) but it matters not who was actually behind the pen, they're all pure Shakespeare and the loveys love them. Writing plays or anything else was a risky business in Tudor times. Saying the wrong thing could get one free lodgings and a serious haircut, so ghost writing would have given an element of safety.

603DX
20th Nov 2014, 14:01
You'd need pretty good Latin to write like Shakespeare. Marlowe's Latin, by all accounts, wasn't much good.

An observation that's lost on me I'm afraid, since I didn't know that the plays and sonnets attributed to the bard might have been written in Latin. Can't imagine that the romantic plotline of Romeo and Juliet was much influenced by young schoolboy Bill having chanted parrot-fashion "Amo, Amas, Amat, Amamus, Amatis, Amant", or that the tortured soliloquies of Hamlet were drafted having regard to the grammatical niceties of "a, absque, coram, de, palam, cum, quam, ex and e" (prepositions taking the ablative case, for those who might have forgotten) ... ;)

Lonewolf_50
20th Nov 2014, 14:07
Tony, similar conjecture surrounds the authorship of various sayings attributed to Sun Tzu, the alleged author of The Art of War. When one peels back the onion, sources vary point various advisors to emperors by names of Wu Chi, Wu Li, Sun Lu, Sun Wu or even Sun Tzu ... which might have been a nomme de plume in the first place.

What matters is the collection of those aphorisms were found in a big enough pile for someone (and editor some ages ago, perhaps) to put together into a coherent whole. As a body of work, it is pretty good stuff.

Back to the Bard: if he only wrote half of it, and had help with the rest, does it matter? As a body of work, it's pretty good.

tony draper
20th Nov 2014, 14:45
The idea put forth is this, Marlowe was not the hot head loud mouth he pretended to be and that he utilized this ruse on behalf of the the greatest spy master and flim flam artist this country has ever had, Francis Wolsingham.
His apparent rebelliousness encouraged others who should have kept their thoughts to themselves to spill the beans to him on plots and such and this information was passed on to Mr Wolsingham who dealt with them harshly as was the norm in those days.
However life became very dangerous for Mr Marlowe so Wolsingham arranged for hm to be spirited orf to Italy a recently scragged catholic priest played the part of Marlowe's corpse and to this day occupies Marlowe's grave(the grave prepared for said priest being found empty)
Now this gives Mrl Marlowe the time and opportunity to write all of Mr Shakespearse's plays and ditties.
Hmmmm, interesting.:rolleyes:

dazdaz1
20th Nov 2014, 17:38
Could it be possible? Oliver Cromwell DOB April 25th 1599 Shakespear DOB April 26th 1564 only a 35 year difference. Was Shakespear really Oliver Cromwell?

wings folded
20th Nov 2014, 20:35
I read a theory not long ago that the works of J.S.Bach were in fact written by Mrs Bach.

I still like them.

Was it Mrs S who wrote all those plays? Who cares? I still like them. (Titus Andronicus requires stamina to get through to the end, however)

I reckon Mrs Bach wrote them Brandenburg concertos, and all the rest, but said it was hubby so she could carry on drawing Family Allowance

Lonewolf_50
20th Nov 2014, 21:01
(Titus Andronicus requires stamina to get through to the end, however)
Titus Andronicus was one of the most popular plays in London when it came out. Perhaps it was first performed as a farce.

I went to a performance in the early 1980's that gave you Titus Andronicus in an over the top, farce, somewhat Monty Python Holy Grail style by a theater company in Washington DC.

It was a funny and enjoyable romp through a play with some seriously dark plot elements.

wings folded
20th Nov 2014, 21:11
The thing about Mr S's works, or Mrs S's works if 'twere she, or Marlowe's works if 'twere him, or the local Head of the Inspectorate for Privet Hedge Conformity's works, if 'twere him, is that they can be played in so many ways, including in a modern idiom, a century or few after them being penned.

tony draper
20th Nov 2014, 21:15
The entire BBC 1965 production of Shakespeare's Wars of the Roses is available on youtube, watched it last week, a warning, you will need to take a poo and empty your bladder if you wish to watch it right through.
:rolleyes:

wings folded
20th Nov 2014, 21:20
Not sure that you are certain of getting the job as literary critic with that remark, Mr D, but I know what you mean.

I once watched a non-stop screening of all Tom & Jerry episodes. It was better to turn off all bodily requirements for the duration

probes
21st Nov 2014, 09:09
The entire BBC 1965 production of Shakespeare's Wars of the Roses is available on youtube
thank you for the tip, Mr. D! :)


P.S and he didn't even make up the plots himself! :\ :)

joy ride
21st Nov 2014, 09:12
At about this same time, Britain's first recorded piece of espionage equipment was bought and given to "001" to use to spy on the King and Queen of Denmark. The Agent could speak Danish but obviously had to pretend complete ignorance. He was Composer and Lutenist John Dowland, the special equipment was a Lute. It was quiet, giving him the excuse to play it within eaves-dropping distance of the monarchs and their courtiers.

tony draper
21st Nov 2014, 09:14
I download youtube stuff I want to watch to me desktop then transfer it to a memory stick and watch it on me big new posh telly now.
:rolleyes:

Pinky the pilot
21st Nov 2014, 09:27
Does it really matter if there is a possibility that 'Bill Wavadagger'* was not the author of some (or all) of the works attributed to him?:confused:

Couldn't give a rats m'self! I just have the view that I'm glad that someone wrote them and that they are available to be seen/heard/read now!:ok:



* The name my late Father used to irreverently but good humouredly use on occasion. And he could (and did on occasion) quote whole scenes of various plays!:ooh:

tony draper
21st Nov 2014, 12:20
Well it's a mystery, it challenges the curious,bit like who exactly old Jack of Whitechapel was.
:)

radeng
21st Nov 2014, 15:25
W.S. Gilbert considered Shakespeare a very obscure writer. He asked a friend "what do you think of this passage?"

'I Would as lief be thrust through a quickset hedge as cry pooh to a callow throstle'.

The response was 'That is perfectly plain. A great lover of feathered songsters, rather than disturb little warbler, would prefer to go through a thorny hedge. But I can't for the moment recall the passage. Where does it occur?'

'I have just invented it' said Gilbert 'and jolly good Shakespeare it is too'.

He had a very good point..............

421dog
21st Nov 2014, 15:40
Oh really...
("Be firm, my pecker")

PLovett
21st Nov 2014, 20:08
At about this same time, Britain's first recorded piece of espionage equipment was bought and given to "001" to use to spy on the King and Queen of Denmark. The Agent could speak Danish but obviously had to pretend complete ignorance. He was Composer and Lutenist John Dowland, the special equipment was a Lute. It was quiet, giving him the excuse to play it within eaves-dropping distance of the monarchs and their courtiers.

Given that John Dowland was a Catholic and believed that he had been denied the position of lutenist at Queen Liz the ones court, I somehow doubt that he undertook espionage missions for Cecil. Even though the Wiki entry for Dowland is ambiguous as to whether he was a spy in Denmark but seems to come down on the side of "not". Nothing to do with Will Shakespeare but Dowland was one very fine musician whose works are still performed today.

joy ride
21st Nov 2014, 21:00
Like so much else of that time, it is rarely possible to prove or disprove anything! Apparently it is recorded that the country bought his lute for espionage but from there on it is hard to prove if he was actually given it and if he was actually sent on his mission. Rather partial to Early Music myself.

tony draper
21st Nov 2014, 22:58
Orson Well's 'Chimes at Midnight' is also available on youtube Mr Probes, another excellent Movie type production of Henry IV 1/2,only bettered by the BBCs Hollow Crown IMHO.
:)
Chimes At Midnight (Orson Welles) Part 1 - YouTube

beaufort1
26th Nov 2014, 19:14
Who would have thunk it? :hmm:

BBC News - Shakespeare Folio found in French library (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30206476)

SpringHeeledJack
26th Nov 2014, 19:21
Apparently it remained hidden in plain sight, as it were, due to the fact that it being in English it attracted few readers who were naturally more drawn to works in French. What a find indeed :ok:


SHJ