SAX sinking? (And maybe Mango too)?

[Bob3213]

Are the rumors true?? Are these companies busy folding: pilots being retrenched?? :sad:

[ChiefT]

I say: It is pretty difficult, but not hopeless...

[Capetonian]

SAA, the ultimate owner of both, is kept on life support by infinite amounts of government - sorry - taxpayers' - money, so I think it unlikely that either Mango or Sax will be allowed to fail, particularly since they seem to run on more businesslike lines than SAA which is the ANC's private taxi service to ferry the club members and pals between JNB and its dwindling number of international destinations.

I would be very sorry indeed to see Mango go. I've used them a lot and hope to continue to do so.

[nugpot]

SAA has no shares in SAX, so cannot in any way shape or form be seen as "the ultimate owner of both."

[Capetonian]

I think you'll find that SAX is owned by SAA which is owned by the 'government' or the ANC.

[ChiefT]

I think we have a classical misunderstanding here:

This is obviously about FlySAX, the former East African Safari Air / Express; it is owned by the Fly540s mother company Lonrho Ltd. Fly540 is also owned by Fastjet (49%).

Mango is the LCC from SAA, South African Airways, which belongs to the state.

[Capetonian]

There is also an airline in ZA called SA Express, often referred to as SAX. I incorrectly assumed, as Mango is also a ZA airline, that the title referred to SA Express of South Africa.

[nugpot]

Capetonian.

SAX is not owned by SAA. Mango is owned by SAA. SAX is a seperate SOE owned by the government (SAA's sister company in other words).

[Capetonian]

In practical terms, the same.

[nugpot]

I initially wanted to know how you came to that conclusion, but I realised I really don't care.

For everyone else, SAX and SAA are completely separate limited companies, each with their own boards. They operate in alliance, but due to competition legislation, the idea which Capetonian presents as reality, is neither legal nor practical.

[Capetonian]

You're presumably talking about SA Express, not FlySAX, the former East African Safari Air / Express?

Check the shareholding, but then if you don't care ......... why bother?

Since when did the ANC care about legality? Are you aware of the gemors going on with the board of SAA?

[nugpot]

Check the shareholding,

Airlines SA Express
IACO YB
IATA EXY


Parent organisation/shareholders (Owner) Department of Public
Enterprises (100%)

Sometimes you should take your own advice.

[Capetonian]

I knew that. What difference does it make?

[B Drive]

La différence est peut-être vous devriez juste aller attraper des poissons.

[Capetonian]

You lost me there. Something to do with catching fish?

[Fuzzy Lager]

Down sizing at SA Express is an inevitability rather than a possibility. After a decade of living on hand-outs funded by the tax payer including single mothers and everyone else trying to scratch a living together finally commercial reality is set to make its premier at this circus. I just hope it happens before your collapsing standard result in someone getting hurt.


I feel nothing for any of you.


I hope that fat pig that runs the place goes to jail for the gross financial mismanagement that continues there to this day.


Escom and load shedding, the collapse of the post office, SAA, SA Expess, Denel, Transnet, SABC, etc etc all filled lazy, greedy dishonest people trying to think of new ways to justify why their work day should be subsidised. The state owned 'enterprises' have brought this country to its knees. The squillions lost has resulted in runaway debt and a falling currency.


The pain of reality is going to be brutal. I can't wait.

[Capetonian]

Escom and load shedding, the collapse of the post office, SAA, SA Expess, Denel, Transnet, SABC, etc etc all filled lazy, greedy dishonest people They are, literally, following the 'example' set by their leader. A fish rots from the head downwards. Zuma is probably the most corrupt leader of any country that has a significant economy, and he is rapidly reducing it to basket case status.

In the old days in Rhodesia we used to say' look across the river' meaning look across the Limpopo to South Africa who supported the Rhodesians. Now, in ZA, we can look northwards across that same river to see a country, once the finest in Africa and the breadbasket of Africa, turned to **** by a despotic lunatic. It may well presage where ZA is going.

[Propstop]

Tis very sad as you have a beautiful country. My wife and I travelled around many years ago and the hospitality was great.
I do see that aviation is slowly closing up; Fugro, now CGG at Lanseria is finishing up as also others I do not know about.

[Whenwe]

Escom and load shedding, the collapse of the post office, SAA, SA Expess, Denel, Transnet, SABC, etc etc all filled lazy, greedy dishonest people
They are, literally, following the 'example' set by their leader. A fish rots from the head downwards. Zuma is probably the most corrupt leader of any country that has a significant economy, and he is rapidly reducing it to basket case status.

In the old days in Rhodesia we used to say' look across the river' meaning look across the Limpopo to South Africa who supported the Rhodesians. Now, in ZA, we can look northwards across that same river to see a country, once the finest in Africa and the breadbasket of Africa, turned to **** by a despotic lunatic. It may well p
resage where ZA is going.


+1 Another sad day in Africa

[handbraketurn]

Couldn't agree more with FuzzyLager - the CEO should rot in jail, he has been found guilty for procurement fraud by an independent forensic investigation years ago, but has top down cover at the Department of Public Enterprises - a teflon man, so to speak - no accountability, no consequences.

It is a pity the union is so timid. Perhaps his latest scheme will spring them to life; he is planning to save the company by slashing salaries. Tighten your belts boys, the tax funded ponzi scheme may just end soon.

[Duch]

I hear that they want to reduce pilot salaries by 30% and have also asked the pilots to sacrifice their 13th cheques. Can anyone confirm?

[BeechGecko]

No salary cuts, no holding back 13th cheque and no retrenchments.

I understand this is a rumour network but at least get some facts before posting unsubstantiated rumours

[handbraketurn]

South African Express (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airline/YB) (XZ, Johannesburg O.R. Tambo (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/5460)) is insolvent the carrier's management has said. During a parliamentary fact-finding mission to the airline's Johannesburg O.R. Tambo (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/JNB) home base, SA Express's board admitted reports in the local press concerning the carrier's precarious state of affairs to be true.

According to a statement issued by Dipuo Letsatsi-Duba, the chairman of the South African government’s portfolio committee on public enterprises, while an interim agreement with South African Express' service providers has been reached, CEO Inati Ntshanga said efforts to secure additional funding via a bank loan had proven problematic given that a shareholder agreement was needed to secure the loan.

As the carrier has yet to hold its AGM on account of its financial records not yet being finalized, this could not be done resulting in an application to the country's National Treasury and Department of Public Enterprises, Ntshanga said.

In the meantime, while SA Express awaits a response, various cost-cutting measures have been enforced including wage cuts.

In early October, South Africa's Minister of Public Enterprises, Lynne Brown described SA Express' financial position as "extremely difficult".

The airline has been beset by allegations of financial mismanagement which culminated in Brown's predecessor, Malusi Gigaba, firing the carrier's board and external auditors in 2012 after they were unable to present him with audited financial statements at its then AGM.

Source: CH-Aviation

[ian16th]

efforts to secure additional funding via a bank loan had proven problematic given that a shareholder agreement was needed to secure the loan.

A lot of words to say that the bank wants the tax payer to back the loan!

[oompilot]

We are the most incompetent generation of fools "running the world". Because of political correctness we allow fools to govern countries and large corporations and reduce the economies to rubbish status. Until we abandon the do good attitude of uplifting the incompetent and putting them in positions they shouldn't be in, the world will chug along going from bad to worse. That warm and fuzzy feeling of how nice we are to the cripples, woman and people of all kinds of colour clearly doesn't translate into successful countries or corporations. Pretending doesn't improve the bottom line.

[ChiefT]

SAA, SAExpress - both badly managed airlines. Burning money is what they can - and buying new aircraft without knowing how to operate them profitable. But for that cases they hire expensive consultants from large consultancies - which sellig them old concepts which do not work in RSA.

Sad stories as there are enough possibilities. If you have the right leaders with an understanding for the industry...

[davidjh]

"Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing and, where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers!"

[Solid Rust Twotter]

AKA socialism.

[Capetonian]

It's a bit worse than socialism in ZA. It's more of a kleptocracy than an ineptocracy.

[handbraketurn]

The apathy of ALPA-SA is staggering. They have an obligation to challenge management to protect the interests of their members and nothing is being done.