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Aus ATC
19th Nov 2014, 11:13
I'm trying to recollect how we flew from LHR to BNE in 1974.

As a 10 year old I can clearly remember departing BNE in August 1973 aboard a BOAC VC10 Super for a trip to the UK. Our routing was BNE-DRW-RNG-CCU-BOM-KWI-LHR. Connecting to a Vickers Viscount to LBA!

But the return journey in August 1974 is hazy! I suspect it was via either AUH or ADD and then SIN, but I'm not certain. I think it was also a VC10, but not 100%. Any help appreciated.

Thanks,
Aus ATC

renfrew
19th Nov 2014, 14:52
It was still a VC-!0 in1974.
The summer timetable has 3 flights a week---
Mon LHR/DAM/BAH/DXB/CMB/SIN/BNE.
Fri LHR/KWI/BAH/CMB/SIN/BNE.
Sun LHR/BGW/DOH/CCU/SIN/BNE.

Airclues
19th Nov 2014, 19:35
I have found five entries for Brisbane flights for 73/74 in my logbook.

They are;

13th May 1973 SVC10 G-ASGO SIN 12.42 BNE 20.05 BA722

23rd March 1974 SVC10 G-ASGL KUL 13.41 DRW 18.29 BA710

23rd March 1974 SVC10 G-ASGL DRW 19.12 BNE 22.35 BA710

27th March 1974 SVC10 G-ASGL BNE 06.03 DRW 10.00 BA737

27th March 1974 SVC10 G-ASGL DRW 10.48 SIN 15.08 BA737

Hope this helps.

Aus ATC
20th Nov 2014, 04:40
Thanks for the replies. Those routes don't ring any bells though - maybe my memory is worse than I thought!!

Halcyon Days
20th Nov 2014, 12:00
I was VC.10 Cabin crew at that time.
I did a BNE-DRW on 09/09/73 G-ARVC. (Standard VC.10)
We then positioned on Qantas 707 to HKG and then operated back
HKG/CCU/KWI on 13/09/73 on G-ARVE another Standard VC.10.
KWI/LHR on 17/09/73 on G-ARVE again.

I dont recall us ever going to RNG on any fleet and dont think BA flew there then?

arem
20th Nov 2014, 13:10
RNG - no I don't think BA or BOAC ever went there but we did go to RGN Rangoon as was - Yangon as it is now known.

Airclues
20th Nov 2014, 13:22
RNG - no I don't think BA or BOAC ever went there

We certainly never operated to RNG (Rangely, Colorado, USA) but we did fly to RGN (Rangoon/Yangon). I operated SVC10 G-ASGA there on 17/12.72 en-route from Delhi to Hong Kong (BA732).

beerdrinker
20th Nov 2014, 17:59
Thread drift. Remember the BA888, known by 2UE in Sydney as the Late Late Late.

BD

Capetonian
20th Nov 2014, 18:02
Can't help with routings but I do remember that BA and Qantas, around that time, introduced what they called a one-way excursion fare with a designator YOX, from LON to SYD/MEL, for 196. It seemed cheap at the time but in real money compared with fares now, quite expensive.

primreamer
21st Nov 2014, 01:46
I'm drifting the thread a bit here too but around that time in the 70's there were obviously several permutations of the UK-Australia route operated by BOAC. My JJC log book shows Heathrow-Winnipeg-Los Angeles in a 707, then transferring to a VC-10 and flying Los Angeles-Honolulu-Fiji-Sydney in December 1973. The return in January 1974 was Sydney-Fiji-Honolulu-Los Angeles-New York in a VC-10, then transfer to a 747 for New York-Heathrow.
Was this flag flying in both east and west directions a throwback to Empire days and the desire to have a worldwide presence? Or was there genuine corporate thinking behind it in order to pull in business from as many stops as possible along the way?

ozleckie
21st Nov 2014, 06:03
I travelled London to Brisbane on 30th April 1973 in a BOAC VC10 via Bahrain, Dhaka[ Dacca then ] and Darwin. We weren't allowed to disembark at Dhaka because of the political situation. Many buildings around the airport were shell damaged.

ExSp33db1rd
21st Nov 2014, 06:18
I recall SFO-HNL-TYO, and SFO-HNL-FIJI-SYD with 707's. Once had to divert a Fiji-SYD service to BNE due SYD Wx. Navigation Fiji-HNL was almost entirely by Astro, Loran a bit sparse on that route

707's had 3 month flight deck crew "postings" to SYD, HNL & HKG in the early '60s. before SYD was taken over by the VC-10. The 747 took over "postings" again in the late '70s.

My HNL posting was notable because the RAF had a small detachment based in Hawaii, at Hickam USAF base, which "shared" the same airfield as HNL Intn'l. They were there to service a Hastings that transitted once a week for the Atom Bomb testing ranges on Christmas Island at the time. The USAF base school let the kids out early on Tuesday and Thursday, to go see a Limey tail wheel aeroplane ! (I kid you not )

The RAF had a water-ski boat, and we had Stewardesses. We came to an "arrangement" !

We ski'd in a lagoon at the side of the airport, later re-claimed land to construct the present runway 06R, "Reef runway" - in later years I would tell my co-pilot that I learned to water ski on this runway. "Brakes released, check full power, V1, Rotate" Silly old Fart, I'm sure they thought !

Quote. ".... known by 2UE in Sydney as the Late Late Late." Thought it was the 'Late 8 8' ? but won't argue.

Ian Burgess-Barber
21st Nov 2014, 08:07
My other half (Purser Paula) says certainly BOAC went into Rangoon. When she was an 'A' Lady on 707s she remembers being on the flight deck in a poor weather approach and the Captain asking all present to try and spot 'The Golden Temple' to establish their position! The CC were told never to uplift any food or water from Rangoon - definitely not safe.

I remember that DJ in Sydney announcing one morning "Right Folks Ive got some shokkin' news about the Pommie Eight Eight Late 'plane, it's just arrived on time! But don't get too excited Folks - it's not today's plane - it's yesterdays.....

Ian BB

bosnich71
21st Nov 2014, 10:18
Myself and family flew from Heathrow to Melbourne by B.A. Boeing 747 in Feb.1974 via Bahrain, Bangkok, Darwin. Don't recall any flight numbers as I was and never have been that interested. Too busy mending airplanes for that.

pax britanica
21st Nov 2014, 12:58
Indeed I remember going to Rangoon on the way back from Hong Kong to LHR on VC10 around the mid 70s. I got off and spent 30 mins with a small number of other pax in a tiny terminal building and watched a Burma Airways F27 arrive to occupy the other stand.

Next stop was Calcutta, also no catering options. Back in the day BA (well still BOAC in all but name) seemed to have a different route every day to HK.

VC10s took me to a few other places BA no longer go to
Addis Ababa, Khartoum, Entebbe, Seychelles

Bergerie1
21st Nov 2014, 15:18
primreamer,
One of the reasons for so many stops was that the aircraft in those days had a relatively limited range. I can't remember the numbers, but London to Barbados was stretching it a bit on a Super VC10.
I have just looked through my logbook and see we certainly went to Rangoon on VC10s. One trip in 1973 shows the following itinerary. London-Beirut-Delhi-Rangoon-Hong Kong-Singapore-Darwin-Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne-Auckland-Sydney-Brisbane-Melbourne-Perth-Singapore and then passenger back home on a 747. 14 days away and all so much more fun then I guess it is now!

VC10man
22nd Nov 2014, 11:15
I enjoy reading about the VC10, all very interesting. But I keep thinking it would have been quicker on a ship to Australia!

You would think with 4 engines on a relatively small plane that the VC10 could have carried more fuel, so it wouldn't have to land so often.

My parents used to go on a BOAC VC10 to Cape Town. I think they refuelled in Nairobi, but where else would they have refuelled?

Capetonian
22nd Nov 2014, 11:25
I don't think it went to CPT, but to JNB. None of the VC10 variants quite had sufficient range to do LON-CPT (6011 miles) or JNB (5636) nonstop with a viable payload.

The reason for the NBO stop was most likely that, as well as refuelling, they could carry revenue traffic on both segments (LON<>NBO and NBO<>JNB). I think some services went via Lagos, Accra, or Kano.

Hobo
22nd Nov 2014, 11:40
You would think with 4 engines on a relatively small plane that the VC10 could have carried more fuel, so it wouldn't have to land so often.

One of the reasons for so many stops was that the aircraft in those days had a relatively limited range.

Of course the main reason they stopped so often was not for fuel, but because that is where the pax wanted to get to. LH was more operated like a bus route in those days. On the 707 we frequently did LHR-FCO-Far East, or Karachi Rome Frankfurt London. Short sectors done by an aircraft that could stay airborne for 9-10 hours.

nonsense
22nd Nov 2014, 15:27
My parents used to go on a BOAC VC10 to Cape Town. I think they refuelled in Nairobi, but where else would they have refuelled?

Zurich.
December 24, 1973, we flew from Nairobi to Zurich to Heathrow in a Super VC10 with about 10 passengers on board. Manchester was fogged in so we then travelled by train from London to Manchester, eventually being picked up by my uncle in his new fangled Morris Marina in the wee small hours of xmas day for the 25 mile drive to our final destination near Blackburn, Lancashire (of the 10,000 holes).

In early December 1971, when I was 8, we were on the first BOAC 747 service from Melbourne to Hong Kong via Darwen. The 1971 India-Pakistan war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971) fired up almost immediately, closing Indian airspace and stranding us in the far east, before we eventually flew Hong Kong, south of India to Tehran, Beirut, Heathrow and thence to Ringway, Manchester to get home in time for xmas.

I have no idea what the aircraft or airlines were, and I missed out on seeing hippy era Kathmandu as originally planned, but I do remember the mountains to the north of Tehran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alborz) and the Crusader Castle at Sidon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidon_Sea_Castle) very clearly.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/SidonSeaCastle.jpg/300px-SidonSeaCastle.jpg

pzu
22nd Nov 2014, 17:27
Slight digression

'74/'74 used to commute to Singapore (& on to Balikpapan), outward choice was BA VC10 - LHR - DOH - SIN, this flight then went on to MEL and was reckoned to be the fastest to Oz!!!

Flight got us to SIN in time to check in at the Singapura Forum (top of Orchard Rd) and down to 'Bugis Street' so we could prep for an 0600 check in at Seletar for onwards to Balikpapan

One drawback the Gin could run out before Doha and BA couldn't organise a top up in Doha (on one occasion they couldn't even refill the Tonic!!!)

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

Pom Pax
22nd Nov 2014, 22:36
A bigger digression,
SQ were I think the first carrier to serve free drinks in all classes of travel. Traveling BKK - LHR in a classic 747 we were allowed off in Bahrain where the transit lounge was full of oil rig workers celebrating finding a bar after a 3 month dry. At Rome the 'plane half emptied as Aussie-Italians got off, not to be replaced as no traffic right Rome to U.K. After take-off I ask for a scotch & soda.
"No sir, very sorry bar closed. Not allowed to serve drinks on flight to London English rules". Pause "You may have gin & tonic sir".
I am puzzled but accept offer and am served. "How come I can have gin but not scotch?"
"Well sir in Rome we lock away the stock. Not allowed to serve free drinks on sectors to England. Only opened bottles not locked away. I have only 3 more measures of gin and some cognac left sir."
My G&T lasted to Heathrow, Happy Days.

ExSp33db1rd
22nd Nov 2014, 22:59
...........The 1971 India-Pakistan war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971) fired up almost immediately, closing Indian airspace I was airborne at that time one night, twixt Singapore and Calcutta, somewhere near Phuket. (one pronounced that VERY carefully )

We were told to avoid Dacca, and navigate to a point in the ocean due South of Calcutta and then establish inbound on the 180 radial of Calcutta VOR.

Out came the sextant, and having reached the required position I handed navigation decisions back to the pilots, to maintain the 180 radial as instructed. Except ....... they couldn't receive the VOR signal, so called Calcutta ATC, who said - "we have switched off all navigation aids, maintain the 180 radial of the Calcutta VOR inbound !"

We called Company in Dum Dum, and they told us that ATC had switched off the VOR and NDB, and turned off all airport lights, including the navigation identity beacon, and the runway approach lights, but when we were established on finals they would switch on the runway lights for 30 seconds to "assist" our landing. We asked the current weather - 800 ft overcast in rain, we were told. We diverted to Rangoon, and told to reverse our track and maintain the 180 radial of the VOR back to the same oceanic position,with the VOR switched off.

INS ? GPS ? don't make me laugh.

Indian airspace was indeed closed, and all aircraft were ordered to land at Calcutta or Bombay for clearance before continuing across the Country, we were bound for Calcutta so that was OK but a following KLM aircraft advised he was bound for Bombay, so would continue - we never heard from him again, tho' to be fair we didn't hear of any KLM aircraft being shot down by a musket, either.

6473LONPERTHDUB
26th Apr 2016, 21:11
I have found five entries for Brisbane flights for 73/74 in my logbook.

They are;

13th May 1973 SVC10 G-ASGO SIN 12.42 BNE 20.05 BA722

23rd March 1974 SVC10 G-ASGL KUL 13.41 DRW 18.29 BA710

23rd March 1974 SVC10 G-ASGL DRW 19.12 BNE 22.35 BA710

27th March 1974 SVC10 G-ASGL BNE 06.03 DRW 10.00 BA737

27th March 1974 SVC10 G-ASGL DRW 10.48 SIN 15.08 BA737

Hope this helps.
On the 3rd June 1973 we left Perth, Western Australia on a BOAC VC10 Flight BA 725 at 15.35. It took us from Perth to Singapore-New Delhi-Beirut-Frankfurt-London. Would it be possible Please to find out what was the Registration on That VC10? Thank You!

Alan Baker
27th Apr 2016, 09:42
Lots of comments about aircraft having to stop so often to refuel. This is not the case, there simply was not the traffic available on most of these routes to make non (or even limited) stop services viable. The many intermediate stops were for traffic purposes and BOAC/BA had fifth freedom rights on most of these sectors. In many cases this was a throwback to the days of empire, which were not so far in the past then as they are now.

PAXboy
27th Apr 2016, 18:16
Regarding traffic, I recall my first ever flight in December 1965 was VC-10 (not Super):
LHR - CIA - NBO - JNB
As I understand it, the machine could have done NBO without a stop? On other occasions is was EBB for the bounce.

I would agree with earlier posters that the VC10 did not go on to CPT, you had to change on to SAA at that time.

pax britanica
27th Apr 2016, 22:16
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 585
I used to enjoy looking at the old BOAC timetables which indeed did resemble a bus timetable . A page marked London to Hong Kong might well show different intermediate stops every day of the week and would change from year to year . If you wanted to go to say Delhi you had to look up a couple of different terminating route pages say LHR -HKG and LHR to SYD . alsoa great slew of footnotes with coding maks inserted in the timetable positions like + or * decoded lower down the apgesd as

'one hour later from mar 30 ' or not Sundays in june or operated by 707 aircraft from 25 May'

Great fun for me and mate with our fathers 10% travel rights and wonder where we can go attitude-great times. And yes the stops were to pick up and drop off pax with BOAC often being seen as much better option on all kinds of city pairs along these 'Empire Routes' than the fledging independent country flag carriers


pax britanica is online now Report Post

crewmeal
28th Apr 2016, 05:36
And of course there was the best BOAC route flying to SYD via LAX and HNL. The 'Supers' operated that route until it closed. It's worth noting that 747 classics used to do the 'Milk Run' to SYD. I believe it used to be LHR-ZRH-THR-BOM-HKG-DRW or MNL - SYD-MEL. I couldn't even work out how long that one took as opposed to the BAH-SIN route. I remember slipping in DRW before a cyclone blew the hotel down then BOAC stopped flying there.

Jhieminga
28th Apr 2016, 08:17
I used to enjoy looking at the old BOAC timetables which indeed did resemble a bus timetable .

I've got a few of them online on this page: Routings and Timetables (http://www.vc10.net/Data/Routings_timetables.html)
I have some newer ones as well but haven't gotten around to scanning them all. I will do some day!

Peter47
30th Apr 2016, 11:55
Unfortunately the closest timetable to 1974 I count find online was April 1971, three years before you flew.

BOAC - British Overseas Airways Corporation (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ba2.htm)
Index of /ttimages/ba2/ba71/ (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ba2/ba71/)

Australian flights are on pages 36 - 43.

I'd like to know if anyone can trace any others.

Its very interesting and well worth a look. A typical flight to SYD would typically have six intermediate stops. I was surprised at home many flights stopped at ZRH, FRA & FCO which, as has been said before, was doubtless a relic of empire days.

You could certainly have flown to SYD with two intermediate stops such as BAH and SIN. You could have reached Perth with one intermediate stop at somewhere such as BOM from 1963 given the range of the 707 320B/C.

tubby linton
18th Jul 2020, 12:24
Does anybody have a timetable routing for London to Hong Kong by Super VC10 in 1976? I seem to remember Muscat, Bombay or Delhi then Calcutta, Rangoon as stops on the way. A worker was evacuated from Muscat due to injuries they had sustained which may explain the stop in Bombay.

Jhieminga
18th Jul 2020, 14:10
I've only got a 1978-79 timetable available, but that shows:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1158x578/screenshot_2020_07_18_at_16_09_08_fd76160cc72bfd27395c859a93 d7aba750a80ffb.png
By then most of the flights used the 747, so this may not be representative.
Full timetable available here: https://www.vc10.net/Data/Routings_timetables.html

tubby linton
18th Jul 2020, 14:56
I flew back from Hong Kong on that trip on a B747 via Bahrain. It seemed a lot more relaxing than the bus stop flight of the outbound journey.

pzu
18th Jul 2020, 16:08
Can't remember Flight # but in '75 was working in Indonesia (East Kalimantan) tripping through Singapore - best outward flight was BA VC10 (Super?) LHR - DOH - SIN this flight went on to MEL and was reckoned to be Fastest to Oz; only hardship was running out of Tonic after DOH we could cope with the Gin by using DF but BA wouldn't/couldn't restock Tonic at DOH !!! Once stood (down the back) all the way from LHR - SIN apart from t/o and landing drinking G&T some 19 hrs of 'hell' !!!

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

Hartington
20th Jul 2020, 14:33
Went to Hong Kong in mid '78 to meet my girlfriend who was working for SCF in Nepal at the time. Last day we went to Macau only to be sent back early as a Typhoon was approaching (the Boeing Jetfoil was pretty stable). By the time we got to Kai Tak the flight was cancelled and we were put in an hotel on the island. After a wild (weather) couple of nights we were bused back to Kai Tak where the departures board showed 4 BA flights. 1 cancelled (sent back London from somewhere else in the east). 2nd was a VC10 operating Tokyo to Johannesburg (I seem to remember that stopped in Colombo) and the rest of us were on the remaining two flights. Happily one was going via Bangkok where girlfriend needed to change to the RNAC flight to Kathmandu.

My other memory of the far east wasn't BA. I went London/Amsterdam on KLM then Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Rome/somewhere in the Gulf/ Bombay/Bangkok/Jakarta on a DC10 with KLM titles one side and Garuda the other side then a Garuda DC8 to Denpasar.Came home from Singapore on a Garuda DC8. to Amsterdam. One stop was Colombo where I watched a family who I suspect were staff offloaded and helped to get their bags from the hold.