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419
18th Nov 2014, 17:44
Having recently returned from one of my regular trips to the USA, a few things stood out to me.

1/ Veterans day.
Having been there for Veterans day, I was amazed and the number of shops and businesses offer substantial discounts and freebies to both serving and retired members of the forces.
Many restaurants (both chains and independently owned ones) were giving free starters and in one case I saw a restaurant giving free lunchtime meals to all veterans, and many shops were advertising special discounts to eligible shoppers.
I know that in the UK we have remembrance day but the US does seem to go much further in honouring ex and current service personnel.

2/ Fuel prices.
Gas/petrol in the area I was staying was in the region of $2.88 to $2.92 per gallon. The last time I was there it was about $3.55 so this is a drop of almost 20% in 6 months (and it's predicted to drop by a further 8c by the end of the year).
If US retail gas prices can be so closely tied to the wholesale price of crude oil, why not in the UK? (I know that our petrol prices have dropped, but over the same period the average price has dropped from 129.8p/litre to 129.7p/litre, or about 3% decrease).

3/ Customer service in shops.
What the **** has happened here?
It wasn't that long ago when customers received exceptionally good service in most shops but judging from the past couple of weeks experiences, this seems to be getting a thing of the past.
On a few occasions I had to walk out of shops after giving up waiting to be served (and making sure that the staff were aware of why I was leaving).

In one place (A levi outlet), the only person "serving" customers was more interested in talking on the phone to her friend (it sounded like she was trying to organise a BBQ) and in many other places they seem to have severely dropped the numbers of staff thus ensuring that customers have to wait far longer to complete their purchases.
I know that due to the global recession cuts are being made in just about every business but when these cuts result in customers walking away without buying, surely it's a case of too many cuts.

rgbrock1
18th Nov 2014, 17:52
419:

Hope you enjoyed your stay here.

1. Veteran's Day. As a Veteran myself not only did I get a free lunch last week from a local eatery but I also received several wishes of thanks and handshakes from a few of my colleagues.

2. fuel prices. Going down, down, down and down. Yes, tied to the price of crude oil but the U.S. is producing more of it now than ever before. Which probably has more to do with the price drop than anything else.

3. Probably a young-ish person you saw gabbing on the phone, no? yes, shops have cut back on customer service staff but unfortunately too many of the remaining ones have an air of "why am I even here" about them. Again, mostly of the young type.

charliegolf
18th Nov 2014, 17:58
My main observation is that every individual American person I met and spoke to in the 10 or so visits I've made was friendly and polite; and usually wanted to chat about where I was from.

The vast majority had no concept of Wales, and several of them tilted when we (strenuously) denied being English! But that usually led to a different chat anyway. But I haven't been to NYC yet!

CG

seacue
18th Nov 2014, 18:04
I gather that something like 90% of the price of petrol in the UK is tax. If true, the price of the fuel itself is a relatively minor component.

In the USA, the total of federal and state takes on gas is in the vicinity of 41 cents per (US) gallon.

Capetonian
18th Nov 2014, 18:09
By America, you mean the USA. Not the same thing at all.

I used to spend quite lot of time in the USA, and enjoyed travelling all over but apart from a long weekend in NYC a couple of years ago, I've not been back since the whole visa thing became so complex. I'm not really in a hurry to go back as they don't seem to want visitors, which is a great shame because when I've interacted with individuals, even immigration people who generally get bad publicity, I've found them fine.

The one thing that I always noticed was the enormous pride that the people have in their country, flags flying, and so on. The excellent customer service in shops and restaurants always impressed me too, along with reasonable prices and massive portions of food (far too much in most cases!) If standards of service are slipping, and I've heard this from others, that's a great shame, and I'd like to know why this is the case.

Even in NYC where people have a reputation for being arrogant and brusque, we found the exact opposite and thoroughly enjoyed the stay. The worst part was the trip back on Delta, and in fact the only rude, unhelpful and ignorant person we encountered was the Delta check in agent at JFK.

Bob Viking
18th Nov 2014, 18:10
I believe that tax in the UK accounts for about 65% of the cost of fuel. The main reason, we are told, that prices haven't dropped as quickly in the UK is because of the slightly falling value of the pound against the US dollar. Prices are also slow to drop here in Canada which could also be the result of weak CAD versus USD.
Whatever I'm told it's all just a bloody con really. Fuel is ridiculously expensive in the UK because politicians who are sheltered due to their cosseted, London lifestyle don't realise that cars are essential for most of the population not a luxury.
Bah humbug.
BV:mad:

angels
18th Nov 2014, 19:12
I been to the US around 15 times and have nothing but great memories of the place (well a few hiccups, but you are going to get them occasionally).

I'm like Capetonian in that all the biometric passport crap and hassle of getting there just put me off. I'm sure we're not the only ones and I really do not think the US is any the safer for it.

That said, I am off to the Big Apple in a month since the trouble has nagged me for so long I finally caved in.

I didn't find New Yorkers rude, but I've always lived in big cities. I absolutely love small town America!

Gertrude the Wombat
18th Nov 2014, 19:20
I'm like Capetonian in that all the biometric passport crap and hassle of getting there just put me off. I'm sure we're not the only ones
You're not. I'm not going to any police state where I have to be fingerprinted before I'm allowed in. There are plenty of other places to go.

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 19:29
You're not. I'm not going to any police state where I have to be fingerprinted before I'm allowed in. There are plenty of other places to go.

I guess it all depends on where you're coming from.

angels
18th Nov 2014, 19:31
Gertrude, I agree with you, but I happen to know that The Man has a bloody great dossier on me anyway (it pays to have spooky contacts!!), so it has already been shared with the septics.

brickhistory
18th Nov 2014, 19:32
The baby boomers raised, largely, a generation that feels entitled to a good, prosperous life. When forced to actually work, for the first time and, thus at an entry-level job, resentment is the result. Reflected in piss-poor customer service.

The morons can't make the connection that happy customers = successful business=promotion and more money = better quality of life.

Instead, they want "it" handed to them.

For that, I am sorry, both to visitors and for my nation. Certainly, a work ethic still exists among many, but I think they are being overwhelmed by the entitled.

Please don't think the majority of Americans agree or are comfortable with the growing and expanding police state. The innate faith in people and a government beholden to the people is eroding.

The breakpoint for that erosion is still TBD, but is not indefinate.

rgbrock1
18th Nov 2014, 19:44
The baby boomers raised, largely, a generation that feels entitled to a good, prosperous life. When forced to actually work, for the first time and, thus at an entry-level job, resentment is the result. Reflected in piss-poor customer service.

:D:D:D

Ain't that the (sad) truth. Evident everywhere.

Seldomfitforpurpose
18th Nov 2014, 19:53
I have lost count of the times I have visited the US and the places I was lucky to enjoy and apart from feeling a bit nervous driving through downtown LA I cannot think of a time I did not enjoy..............................well Deadwood was a bit of a disappointment :p

candoo
18th Nov 2014, 20:05
Well I have been in America for the last 10 weeks, I was astonished last weekend when all the local roads were shut down, fearing the worst I investigated, Ahh that will be the vets parade.

Outstanding support and families of all age, colour, creed were prepared to cheer the procession along its route on a cold snowy day.

That to me, as a Brit, is a very rare occurrence.

John Hill
18th Nov 2014, 20:28
One would be daft to travel NZ to Europe via the US when there is the alternative of transit formalities at Singapore.

Ancient Mariner
18th Nov 2014, 20:31
Apart from arriving, transiting and leaving, I've always found the USoA a pretty decent place to spend time.
Per

rgbrock1
18th Nov 2014, 20:40
Ahhh, here comes the USA bashing. Who would've thunk? :ugh:

Hydromet
18th Nov 2014, 20:40
On my recent visit to the USA, visiting Honolulu, Seattle, Washington DC & NYC, I was pleasantly surprised by pretty well all aspects. I did a lot of walking, probably into some places that wouldn't normally be recommended, and found nothing but friendly people. Didn't do much shopping, but when I did, I found the service from both young and old to be polite, helpful and friendly. Entry into the USA through Honolulu and Washington, likewise.

Bob Viking
18th Nov 2014, 20:50
Not from me. I've visited 15-20 times (21 states so far and I'm hoping to tick them all off eventually) and loved it every time.

There are some things that seem odd to me but it's not my country so not my place to criticise.

BV:ok:

con-pilot
18th Nov 2014, 21:03
We're not any happier about all this DHS and Patriot Act nonsense than foreign friends.

Trust me on this.

Never the less, thank all of you for your kind words about our country. :ok:



As for mobile phone addicted younger generation, these gits are everywhere any more, not only in the US.

Old and Horrified
18th Nov 2014, 21:29
I have been to the US many times over the last 30 odd years, both on business and vacation and loved every single visit with two exceptions. First was in New York with a Laker crew on the day that Bobby Sands (the IRA hunger striker) died in May 1981 and we all decided it was definitely a good time to stay in the hotel. The second time was when my wife and I took the wrong exit from a Miami freeway, got completely lost, and ended up in a decidedly unfriendly looking neighborhood.

I totally agree that there seems to be a much more positive attitude over there that currently in the UK. I go back as often as I can.

FLCH
18th Nov 2014, 21:30
The vast majority had no concept of Wales,

Big fish ?

charliegolf
18th Nov 2014, 21:37
Quote:
The vast majority had no concept of Wales,
Big fish ?

There goes another rib!

CG:ok:

superq7
18th Nov 2014, 21:38
We had a lovely week in NYC last November no problems with immigration because we traveled via Dublin (customs etc carried out there brilliant)!
I found the locals very friendly much more so than in London.
My only slight bugbear was the constant tipping, other than that excellent.

er340790
18th Nov 2014, 21:51
As one of the 600,000 seasonal invaders from the Great White North, the USA certainly gets my vote.

(Just a pity this NAFTA gizmo won't let me work there. :E And they double our :mad: property tax, in FL at least!)

BenThere
18th Nov 2014, 22:17
Where I live, Europeans are a novelty. My Australian wife is something of a celebrity in Ann Arbor as she is the only Aussie most people have ever seen, and they can't get enough of simply hearing her talk.

Your everyday American, especially outside the big cities, is friendly, helpful, interested in you, trustworthy, and happy to make your acquaintance.

I empathize with the entry/exit hassles - I deal with them, too. But once you're in there are lots of bargains, the food is good, there's a lot to see, and you're welcome here. Keep coming.

Tankertrashnav
18th Nov 2014, 22:20
It's many years since I visited but have very happy memories of my three trips across the pond. I'd dearly love to go back but till I can afford 1st class it'll have to stay on hold as neither my nor Mrs TTN's back would survive 7 hours in an economy seat :(

The only criticism on this thread I'd go along with is the tipping culture, but other than that it's one of the friendliest countries I've ever visited (the other one being Russia, funnily enough)!

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 22:28
What is the fascination with, or rather resentment to, tipping? I've been all over the world, always tipped, and it was received with gratitude. Including the three times (first, last, and never again) in England.

NWSRG
18th Nov 2014, 22:31
Concur with the thread opener...

Since getting married in 2006, my wife and I have been in the US every year on vacation (twice one year). Generally, we find ordinary Americans to be very friendly and welcoming. You end up having casual conversations over the petrol pumps, or across the aisle in a restaurant, and it's just nice. People in the US don't seem to have any airs or graces...what you see is what you get.
We were really pleasantly surprised by both Washington DC and Seattle. DC is just so much more relaxed than you expect it to be. The cops are friendly and helpful, and we got into the Senate gallery with little more than handing over our passports! Seattle was just the most laid back place, and folk were really friendly.

However also agree though that the service culture is slipping. Need to be careful here, but we felt that was perhaps because the demographic of those serving was changing...

But a great country...a country that others seem to take pleasure in criticising at times, but the US has so much to commend. Would any European country be able to claim such a culture of benevolent giving? Universities, hospitals etc...all supported by people who have 'made it good' and are more than happy to put something back.

Lord Spandex Masher
18th Nov 2014, 22:39
What is the fascination with, or rather resentment to, tipping? I've been all over the world, always tipped, and it was received with gratitude. Including the three times (first, last, and never again) in England.

I don't mind tipping for a job well done, or if somebody has gone the extra mile, but why should you get a tip for doing your job, in an average fashion? It's the expectation of getting a tip for nothing that offends me.

BenThere
18th Nov 2014, 22:44
Just think of tipping in the US as the compensation your server earns. Tips are their living.

We don't comprehend VAT, either, but we deal with it.

Lord Spandex Masher
18th Nov 2014, 22:51
Don't you have a minimum wage?

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 22:54
You have to realize that most jobs that warrant tipping are low paying, usually minimum wage jobs, and the rationale for that is that the pay will be augmented by the tip. In some cases the minimum wage, mandated by the government (:eek::eek::eek::eek:) is less that the "regular" minimum wage. For example restaurant workers usually have lower minimum wage because tips are expected. You just have to know that the price you see is the price the restaurant is charging. Taxes and tips are extra, as that is not the charge the restaurant keeps.

I don't like it when, in Europe, the service charge is included in the price, no mater how arrogant and unhelpful the waiter is.

Very rarely have I encountered someone to whom I wouldn't leave a reasonable tip in US and Canada. If a service is lousy in a restaurant it may be for a number of reasons and not under control of the server.

jimtherev
18th Nov 2014, 22:56
Ahhh, here comes the USA bashing. Who would've thunk? :ugh:
Methinks I spy an over-active imagination. The only bashing in this thread to date is of lazy, rude individuals - get 'em everywhere. That apart, admiration seems to have been the leitmotiv.


But then those who look for insults can always manufacture them...

BenThere
18th Nov 2014, 23:01
One nice thing about the tipping convention is that if you do receive substandard service, the amount you tip is totally at your discretion. Your only legal requirement is to pay the printed tab.

Lord Spandex Masher
18th Nov 2014, 23:01
Dushan, does the employer make up the difference if the tips plus wage don't reach $7.25/hour?

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 23:04
Yes*, but he doesn't need to as we are a very companionate nation and always reward good service.









* Corrected to satisfy a pedant.

ExSp33db1rd
18th Nov 2014, 23:09
I don't mind tipping for a job well done, or if somebody has gone the extra mile, but why should you get a tip for doing your job, in an average fashion? It's the expectation of getting a tip for nothing that offends me.I agree, and when we first came to NZ tipping was almost totally unheard of, then we hosted the America's Cup sailing thing, which flooded the Country with Americans - things have now changed ! - but not my habits.

I'm not Yank Bashing, after all I'm married to one ! but a few things get up my nose when I'm there, not least the habit of DELIBERATELY not addding the tax to the price sticker of goods on the shelves.

I full understand that tax varies from State to State, even Cities within a State, but FFS it doesn't vary very often within any one Town or City on a daily basis, the shops re-print their price tags all the time, special offers, discount today etc. etc. so WTF can't they display the full price every time they print a ticket ?

It bugs me most when I'm paying small priced items in "convenience" stores, I get the right amount of change ready whilst queuing, then there's the "Gotcha" ! of the extra tax. Usually they need my money more than I need their goods, and I take a warped pleasure in leaving it on the counter. I have a choice.

A good feature in many shops is the habit of leaving a plate of 1 cent coins on the counter, with a notice " if you need one take one, and if you have one left leave one" One is almost always one coin short when making small purchases !

Lord Spandex Masher
18th Nov 2014, 23:09
Well The Fair Labor Standards Act disagrees with you. So, the employee will always get mandated minimum wage regardless of you tipping or not.

Capetonian
18th Nov 2014, 23:24
Odd thing about tipping.

On my first day in Tokyo I was chased down the street from a restaurant because I had left a tip for excellent service, and apparently in Japan it's an insult to leave a tip, which I didn't know.

In Bal Harbour (FL) I was chased down the street from a restaurant because I intentionally hadn't left a tip after appalling service.

I also love small town USA. Spent a lovely week in Boulder, Colorado, and a few days in southern Illinois in small towns. Fantastic. They make you feel so welcome. Even the cop who nicked me for speeding was pleasant and polite.

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 23:24
Like I said, everyone tips (except a few European* cheapskates) so no need to make anything up.













* When my sister visits, from France, I always check the bill if she is "picking it up" and have cash ready to leave as tip since she has no concept of how much should be left. Once she left 73¢ on a $120 tab. I added a $20.

Flying Lawyer
18th Nov 2014, 23:26
BenThere Just think of tipping in the US as the compensation your server earns. Tips are their living.
We don't comprehend VAT, either, but we deal with it.

Just think of VAT as sales tax.
VAT is levied at a much higher rate than sales tax in the US but, if it was reduced, other taxes would inevitably be increased.


DushanIncluding the three times (first, last, and never again) in England.That is the third time (at least) in the past three months that you have declared you will never visit England again.

Good decision. http://www.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon14.gif
Don't allow your resolve to weaken.

superq7
18th Nov 2014, 23:29
Dushan, what didn't you like about your trip to England ?

con-pilot
18th Nov 2014, 23:33
but a few things get up my nose when I'm there, not least the habit of DELIBERATELY not addding the tax to the price sticker of goods on the shelves.


I really agree with you, I hate trying to add all that stuff up in my head. :p

But, it is more of a tradition than a deliberate policy designed to trick or fool the consumer. But, the way I look at it, the price you see for a gallon of gas/petrol includes all taxes.

So why cannot everything else?

I've got a good idea, but I'll wait to see if anyone else has any other ideas.

Lord Spandex Masher
18th Nov 2014, 23:34
I'm sure the difference between yes and no is not pedantic. However, you didn't know what you were talking about.

Why do you need to take it upon yourselves to subsidise the federally mandated minimum wage? It's a sort of self imposed taxation. Perhaps self congratulatory?

For example restaurant workers usually have lower minimum wage because tips are expected

But they don't, they will receive the same minimum wage as everybody else because the employer is legally required to make up the difference.

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 23:34
I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but if you're really interested PM me.

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 23:37
But they don't, they will receive the same minimum wage as everybody else because the employer is legally required to make up the difference.

The point is that they receive a lot more than the minimum wage and the business does not have to make up the difference. The patrons do, and then some.

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 23:41
[B]DushanThat is the third time (at least) in the past three months that you have declared you will never visit England again so I assume you mean it.

Good decision.
Don't allow your resolve to weaken.


Touchy, are we? How do you think Americans feel about Gertrude's and John Hill's jabs about travel to US?

Don't worry will not be intentional.

419
18th Nov 2014, 23:45
Well The Fair Labor Standards Act disagrees with you. So, the employee will always get mandated minimum wage regardless of you tipping or not.

Tipped staff can receive as little as $2.13 an hour from their employer but as you say, if someone doesn't get enough tips to bring them up to a minimum of $7.25 an hour (this figure can be slightly higher in some states), the employer must make up the difference.

Good in theory but how long do you someone wii be kept on if their employer has to keep topping up their wages due to not getting enough tips?
Even at $8 an hour, this is hardly a living wage once you take tax, social security and medical coverage into account. Because of this, tips for many workers aren't a bonus, just somthing that is needed for survival.

After a while, you automatically add on the value of a tip when eating or drinking, just the same as automatically adding on sales tax without even thinking about it.

Like it or loathe it, it's the norm over there and as the age old saying goes, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do"

Loose rivets
18th Nov 2014, 23:53
I have the right to live and work in America for the rest of my life. Not much chance of the work thing being tested. :uhoh: Right now, I'm 'home'* in England to sort myself out. Huh. That ain't going to happen, and I'm really missing 'home'* right now.

*home, suddenly becomes the country I'm not in the moment I land in the other 'home'.

Anyway, did the OP's 3/ and other odds, refer to the US or the UK? I've a feeling the viewpoint changed.

Anyway again, one internal flight in the US sticks out in my mind more than any other. At the latter stages of boarding, a young man who happened to be black, appeared up front. He was in uniform and had one leg braced with a strap on thingie. He also had crutches.

It was at a crucial moment in America's repatriation of troops after a bad conflict and after a moment's pause, the passengers all started clapping. Suddenly he was given a business class seat, donated by a grateful passenger. The applause was his welcome home and thank you, while his wonderful smile was reward enough for a plane full of passengers that suddenly were one, and having fallen silent, gave another burst of applause, though this time one could sense the tear filled eyes and tight throats.

419
18th Nov 2014, 23:55
Why do you need to take it upon yourselves to subsidise the federally mandated minimum wage? It's a sort of self imposed taxation. Perhaps self congratulatory?*

If tipping to increase the federal minimum wage for many people was stopped, what do you think would happen?
Businesses would end up having to increase prices to cover the shortfall (and probly more on top), something that woult result in massive inflation.
All food and beverage prices in served places would rise so employees in just about every other sector would demand more money due to the cost of living rising.

Lord Spandex Masher
18th Nov 2014, 23:56
The point is that they receive a lot more than the minimum wage

Only of they deliver good service, according to you. Why don't you tip the chef?

How would you like it if I walked into your place of work and decided how much you should get paid?

Did you know wealthy Americans brought tipping back from Europe based on their aristocratic tradition?

Lord Spandex Masher
19th Nov 2014, 00:00
If tipping to increase the federal minimum wage for many people was stopped, what do you think would happen?


A service charge, or equivalent and more revenue for the IRS.


Like it or loathe it, it's the norm over there and as the age old saying goes, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do"

It's changing though.

Dushan
19th Nov 2014, 00:06
Only of they deliver good service, according to you. Why don't you tip the chef?

How would you like it if I walked into your place of work and decided how much you should get paid?

Did you know wealthy Americans brought tipping back from Europe based on their aristocratic tradition?

Did you miss the part where I said:


Very rarely have I encountered someone to whom I wouldn't leave a reasonable tip in US and Canada. If a service is lousy in a restaurant it may be for a number of reasons and not under control of the server.


Furthermore, what that means that I rarely encountered, but does not say I did not tip. I always tip.

As for behind the scenes workers, they are paid wages not taking tipping into account.

I get paid a salary, plus a bonus. The bonus is based on company profit which is based on how well I do my job. So, yes, you do come into my company and decide how much I get paid.

Lord Spandex Masher
19th Nov 2014, 00:24
As for behind the scenes workers, they are paid wages not taking tipping into account.

So are the waiters.

The bonus is based on company profit which is based on how well I do my job.

Strange then that you reward waiters regardless of how well they do their job yet you won't reward a chef, for instance, for cooking your meal well.

con-pilot
19th Nov 2014, 00:28
What I want to know is; why does any thread about the US always turn into LSM's personal soap box?

Jeez, give it break once in a while, will you. :rolleyes:

Lord Spandex Masher
19th Nov 2014, 00:31
Give what a break?

Dushan
19th Nov 2014, 00:35
Good point, con-pilot. I will not feed him. What did Brian Williams have to say about Keystone. I missed him. :{

galaxy flyer
19th Nov 2014, 00:40
In my business, I get to go to lots of countries, big cities, small towns, too. Every place has their share of jerks, fools and the genuinely wonderful, personable people. The wonderful outnumber the others by 10:1, at least. I've meet friendly gov't functionaries and nasty servers, despite all incentives to the opposite. Pretty and ugly girls are mostly evenly distributed, as are handsome and nasty guys. America and PPRUNE aren't exceptions to this experience. :)

GF

Lord Spandex Masher
19th Nov 2014, 00:42
Oh come on Dushan, I'm interested in knowing why you think it's ok for you to have a bonus when you're on a decent salary but you say you won't tip chefs because they get a wage which takes into account lack of tips (that's not really how they work out the salary is it?) but you tip waiters who also get a wage based on no tips (if they get no tips).

By the way Con, although this is a USA thread tipping happens world wide.

Flying Lawyer
19th Nov 2014, 01:25
Dushan Touchy, are we?

Not in the slightest. Having read your frequent and sometimes offensive criticisms of the British (as you appear to believe us to be) I see no reason why you would wish to visit again and, given some of your views, I think your decision is probably mutually beneficial.

Curiously, for some reason you feel the need to keep repeating that you will never visit again – even in this thread when the overwhelming majority of posts had been very complimentary about America and Americans.


Agree re Gertrude's and John Hill's jabs.
The anti-American prejudices often displayed in this forum are ridiculous. Unfortunately, you and some of the other American regulars often feed the prejudices. (I am not referring to responses to provocative comments.)

West Coast
19th Nov 2014, 01:42
Unfortunately, you and some of the other American regulars often feed the prejudices. (I am not referring to responses to provocative comments.)

Don't allow your resolve to weaken.

Your comment to Dushan falls into which category?

Seldomfitforpurpose
19th Nov 2014, 07:19
Your comment to Dushan falls into which category?

It's a comment about Dushan and not Americans in general :ok:

West Coast
19th Nov 2014, 07:27
I recognize that, just curious if FL has himself waded into the mud.

Seldomfitforpurpose
19th Nov 2014, 07:52
I recognize that, just curious if FL has himself waded into the mud.


Matters not if he has or not as its nowt but an observation.


The general trend on this thread is of a positive experience by those who visit the states.


I have been lucky enough that in my Hercules days I got as far west as Honolulu, North as Alaska, East as DC and countless places in between. Vacations have seen me drive from San D to San Fran, Denver to Salt Lake, Ft Lauderdale to the Keys and many many more journeys.


In all those visits I am truly struggling to think of a negative experience.


Dushan has been here 3 times and is writing off a whole nation?????

ExSp33db1rd
19th Nov 2014, 08:42
Nowhere is perfect, and I like to visit the USA more than just about any other place, at least they speak English ( well, sort of ) tho' some of the accents are a bit challenging, but then so they are in England, and I was born there. Most things work, and shops stay open most times that folk want to - or can - patronise them. I don't have to deal with "funny money" or Serbo-Croat, or even French. Got a lot going for it has the US of A.

However - don't start me on the TSA, Immigration, or the latest FATCA financial dictates that make everyone except the real crooks and money launderers look like crooks and money launderers. I've just tried to move a modest amount of money to the USA, and am now suffering the consequences. Al Capone had it easy.

Should I ever choose, or find the need, to move there permanently there is no way I would attempt to go the "legal" route, far too hard, much easier to just walk across the Rio Grande

goudie
19th Nov 2014, 08:44
I first visited the USA in the '50's and then 70's with the RAF.
The first visit was to Nellis Field so Las Vegas was my first experiences of America. Americans I met were at pains to point out that it wasn't the real America!
I again visited the USA in the '80's/90's in my job with an American owned company. My American colleagues couldn't do enough to make my visit there productive and pleasant, often inviting me to their homes.

My middle daughter married an American and we have visited them every couple of years or so. Every visit has been a positive experience, beautiful countryside, and politeness wherever we went.

I used to sing in a Barbershop chorus and we sang at the Barbershop Convention one year, in Kansas city
As we came on stage to sing, the curtain was down but we could hear the buzz from the audience of 12,000! As we were being announced they started to slow hand clap. It was the day before the 4th July and we thought blimey, they're showing their dis-approval of the Brits. Then the curtain went up and the clapping increased in speed, the applause was tremendous as only the Americans can applaud. We sang and came off stage, again to them rattling the rafters.
So no complaints from me about American people or their Country.

chuks
19th Nov 2014, 08:53
Dushan can be cruel and judgmental, I agree, but not always. If he could only extend some of the same glowing benevolence he feels towards Ronald Wilson Reagan towards Great Britain, or perhaps just England, then you would see a very different man.

When I compare him to myself, I see that he's not so cranky as all that, and I am sure that this business of writing off England after just three visits is a bluff. (I must declare that he once bought me lunch, so that is report is colored by some bias.)

Tipping is something rather silly. New Yorkers make a point of always giving their cab-driver a generous tip, as if they think that they are going to ever see him or her again, in a sea of yellow bone-shakers. What is that about?

Here in Germany a tip means just rounding up from 33.45 to 35, for instance, what is called Trinkgeld, "drink-money."

In the States, on the other hand, I once had a fellow running a small restaurant be very aggressive in calculating an extra 15% for me as "the required amount." I was so stunned by his chutzpah that I paid!

Another question for John Hill: How does tipping work in North Korea? Seriously!

This American business of showing the price without the tax is stupid. I was continually being caught out, stood there with a $5 bill in my hand to pay for my $4.95 jumbo family pack of Cheetos, when the register would send me rummaging in my pocket for an extra small sum. Not in New Hampshire, though: "New England's Mississippi" has no sales tax at all.

MagnusP
19th Nov 2014, 09:04
How does tipping work in North Korea?

Generally into limepits once the dogs have finished, I believe.

Dushan, you can fly directly into Scotland now, bypassing England altogether. ;)

goudie
19th Nov 2014, 09:44
On reflection I do have one complaint.
Syrup and pancakes at business breakfast meetings, as opposed to bacon sarnies at the Brit ones (the cousins loved those).
My daughter used to make a point of cooking a 'Full English' at least once during our visits.

SFFP I too have done the Pacific Highway drive, awesome and memorable.

Tankertrashnav
19th Nov 2014, 09:55
What a shame this thread has developed into an endless quarrel about tipping. I'm really sorry I ever mentioned it in my last post, all I said it was the only criticism previously mentioned that I could think of to agree with, and that was a minor one. The USA is an amazing, diverse country, I'd love to see much more of it

Looking forward to my next trip if I win the lottery and can fly first class and stretch out! As for tipping - well I think I'll just bring sandwiches so I dont have to eat out ;)

Ancient Mariner
19th Nov 2014, 10:01
With wife and No.2 daughter, rental car from Newark to North Stonington, Ct./return.
Then Continental Newark to Seattle, rental car Seattle to Vancouver, then Vancouver to San Diego by car, following the coast as close as possible, walked in to Mexico (adding one more country to daughter's list).
Continental San Diego to New Orleans, further on to Miami, rental car to Orlando, one week at a Disney Resort, Continental Orlando to Newark.
Oh, how I miss those business trips. :E
A most memorable vacation, not one complaint except maybe less time in Disney World, daughter would disagree. :hmm:
Per

Flying Lawyer
19th Nov 2014, 10:22
West Coast just curious if FL has himself waded into the mud.

SFFP has already correctly pointed out the context of my previous post. I responded to a specific comment by Dushan but he is just one of a small group amongst the American posters whose opinions on various topics constantly provide ammunition to those who are prejudiced against America/Americans.

I hope a few extracts from my posts over the past 13 years will resolve your curiosity:

2001: Wonderful country, wonderful people.
Twenty years ago this month, I turned down an attractive offer from a firm of attorneys in California - probably the biggest mistake I've made in my life to date. And NOT just because they pay their lawyers better!
(23 years later, I still regard it as one of the few big mistakes I've made.)

2002 (In response to an 'America basher' who had never been there.) Why don't you spend a little time in America during your break from work? It may be every bit as awful as you imagine, or even worse, but at least you'd be better informed.
And, of course, you'd be able to say that your views are based upon personal experience not just anti-American prejudice.

4th July 2003: The Founding Fathers created a wonderful country of which Americans are very proud - and they have good reason to be.

2010: No need to apologise for thinking I was an American. There are a few nationalities with which I'd prefer not to be confused but American certainly isn't one of them.

2014: I like the country and the people and would be very happy to live there.

I disagree profoundly with some aspects of America's foreign policy but that doesn't affect my enjoyment of your wonderfully diverse country or the company of the people.

If I'd made a different decision in 1981 we might have been neighbours now. I've thoroughly enjoyed visiting several states over the years, for vacations and work, and San Diego would still be my first choice as a place to live. Which reminds me - another visit is overdue.


FL

MagnusP
19th Nov 2014, 10:24
I've made twenty-odd visits to the USA over the years, both on business and for holidays, and enjoyed them all. I've only driven bits of the Pacific Highway*, but would love to do more. MrsP would rather visit NYC, so I offered a compromise; she could visit NYC while I drive the PH, but that idea didn't find favour. I'd also like to see more of the "central" areas such as Kansas, Nebraska and Wyoming; whether that ever happens, I don't know.

* I've driven more of the Oz version!

Fliegenmong
19th Nov 2014, 10:32
I live in the 51st State, where all the kids listen to gangsta rap music, most of the population are obese, all American (ie USA) television shows, people wear American labels, drive American pick up trucks, wear baseball caps backwards, and singlets emblazoned with basketball team logos, every second street corner is an American franchise fast food restaurant or 7/11, Halloween has become huge, and, this is priceless, the local paper had an American (stars and stripes) emblazoned lift out on how to cook a pumpkin pie for thanksgiving day!!! I sh!t you not! that the Average Aussie in the street could tell you nothing about thanksgiving day matters not one bit!!

I love visiting the States, always huge fun.....but increasingly home is becoming just like that states, and so, when combined with being treated like a terrorist at airports* (oh, hang on, that happens here as well!) visiting the States is like being at home.

[*Special thanks to the people stamping my boarding pass 'SSS', I love being singled out for special treatment]

Notable exceptions being -

Can't buy grog in supermarket here
Drive different side of road
Gigantic difference in the number of gun related Homicides, even taking into account massive population difference
Tipping (though becoming increasingly expected, despite far high minimum wages and living conditions)

radeng
19th Nov 2014, 10:44
I don't mind being fingerprinted on entry - we should do that for foreigners entering the UK - but my big bitch applies to the UK too - why will they not have enough people on immigration to keep the queues down? At a tiny airport like Nice on a Sunday afternoon when several flights appeared at the same time (because three of them were very late) the French immigration people just kept opening up desks until there were 6 of them open.....At ORD, I've waited over an hour because two desks were open and two 777s and three 747s arrived pretty well at the same time. Costs they say, but they apparently don't realise that if people get piss*d off with the line and don't visit again, they don't spend money, and how big is the US trade deficit?

John Hill has a point about the way pax are herded like cattle on the stop off in LAX on a AUK - LHR flight. Because of that, there's no way I would travel to/from NZ by way of the US. I am surprised the airlines haven't done something about it....

Loose rivets
19th Nov 2014, 11:26
Should I ever choose, or find the need, to move there permanently there is no way I would attempt to go the "legal" route, far too hard, much easier to just walk across the Rio Grande


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . Probably better you don't do that. But of course you're kidding. But just in case. Why not cross the river?



1/ The Mexican kids will use you for target practice. It's likely they won't miss as they practice . . . a lot. 70,000 murders in five years and mostly near the boarder towns. And I think that's shy of the real figure.

2/ There is a huge ugly wall along substantial stretches of the US river's edge.

3/ There are a LOT of very skilled Wetback-catchers on the American side.

4/ No one knows how many detectors there are buried in the ground. They've lost count. But they seem to work.

5/ The Americans will take a dim view of it, and you won't be invited back. :p



So different to the time I spent when the kids were young, just meandering along the Rio Grande. Could paddle to Mexico in some places, the biggest danger was from Big Cats that lived in the caves.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/walnaze/PpruNe/NoGuess.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/walnaze/media/PpruNe/NoGuess.jpg.html)

Wonderworld
19th Nov 2014, 12:35
Those whining about the entry requirements into the United States are simply being drama queens. It was the only place I wanted to visit since I was a kid and I got my wish at the age of 17 to fly Pan Am from SYD to JFK to do a camping trip to LA. this was in 1979. For all I care they can take my cock print when I go there but nothing will ever stop me from visiting.

Fliegenmong
19th Nov 2014, 12:46
Oh dear...Is that you Simon Townsend ? :\

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 13:07
MagnusP wrote:

MrsP would rather visit NYC, so I offered a compromise; she could visit NYC while I drive the PH, but that idea didn't find favour.

Magnus, if you and the Mrs. are ever in this neck of the woods, NYC that is, please let me know beforehand and we can certainly hook up. (Although my Mrs. is not necessarily a huge fan of NYC she does enjoy the occasional visit. She's excused though, being a hick from CT at heart!) And I can show you some very nice places in Manhattan off the beaten, and tourist, track.

BenThere
19th Nov 2014, 13:14
You have to be careful in the US, especially when dining with a group in a nicer restaurant. Many restaurants automatically add a pre-determined tip, 15% or more, to the tab. It's usually in fine print somewhere on the menu if they follow this practice, but they won't tell you about it. You have to examine the itemized bill or you might end up double-tipping, which doesn't bother the waiter at all.

Another scam is hotel room service. You might think you ordered a $25 steak and salad, but when you sign the check, it ends up being $45, which includes a large service charge, taxes, and whatever else they can think of to pad the cost.

You always have the right not to tip if you receive surly service, or your meal is served cold, or for any reason. A $1 tip in such instances is a suitable insult.

Waiters at fine restaurants can make a very good living, up into six figure incomes. I met a pilot once who went to work at a restaurant where he had worked previously when he was furloughed from the airline. He told me it paid more than his airline job.

jez d
19th Nov 2014, 13:18
Capetonian wrote:

By America, you mean the USA. Not the same thing at all.

:confused:

I guess I must have visited somewhere in the region of 30-40 countries, but never America/USA. Closest I've got thus far is St John's in Newfoundland. Now that's a friendly place. I guess that's partially down to the weather - you simply can't afford not to get along with your neighbours in such an inhospitable climate.

A visit to USA is definitely on my wish list. Have been advised that Boston is a good starting point, to lessen the culture shock. Which reminds one of the Japanese Embassy in Paris, which has a helpline number for Japanese tourists who have experienced Parisian hospitality firsthand and are struggling to understand what they did wrong !

Blacksheep
19th Nov 2014, 13:19
I like the USA. A lot. I always enjoy visiting and, although it is true that the immigration queues are a nightmare, once you've passed the baggage carousel it is such a pleasant welcoming country full of nice people.

BenThere
19th Nov 2014, 13:24
Closest I've got thus far is St John's in Newfoundland

I hold lifelong gratitude for Newfoundlanders' stepping up en masse to take care of diverted and stranded airline passengers on 9/11 and the following days. That was magnificent!

chuks
19th Nov 2014, 13:55
It's kind of funny how we Yanks have taken over the terms "America" and "American." Canadians and Mexicans are also "North Americans," in fact.

The USA, of course, includes large parts of former Mexico, most of the parts with paved roads, it seems.

"New York" is another one, when most people seem to take that to mean Manhattan, just one of the five boroughs of New York City, to say nothing of the very large state of New York.

We visited St. John's once. It was closed.

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 14:23
chuks wrote:

to say nothing of the very large state of New York.

Including the city of Buffalo. Currently experiencing the bliss of an early winter. To the tune of 6' of snow. It's so bad in the Buffalo area right now that the NY National Guard has been deployed to assist. Including assisting people who have taken to their roofs in an attempt to escape their snowed-in homes. Brings the word "Igloo" a whole 'nutha meaning!

MagnusP
19th Nov 2014, 14:39
RGB: will do, thanks. I may have had a different view were you still in connect-the-dots. ;)

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 14:49
MagnusP:

Not to worry, I would never subject you (or anyone else for that matter) to the great Satanic state of Connect-the-shit. :ok:

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 15:12
Dawn. 19 Nov 2014. The southern outskirts of the city of Buffalo, NY.

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/33/24/51/7162478/3/628x471.jpg

The fence to the lower-right of the photo is a 4' high fence.

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/33/24/20/7160883/3/628x471.jpg

mikedreamer787
19th Nov 2014, 15:38
I think you have a serious case of
affinity to shitty cold weather RGB.

Ever thunked of migrating to warmer
(and far less income taxing) climes?

I'll even donate you me comfy beach
bed while you listen to the latest NY
blizzard warnings...

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/16/6b/4e/166b4ec5dbbda294158349e85664ed5b.jpg


And arrange for some..um..little extras -

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRR7kIBPUX9sgcBx2Zci4FeGKFiA8B3EOv2Ur4pgpz kXqmK3r4u

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 15:41
mikedreamer:

Love the top photo, not so much the bottom one. (Fat arse.)

Yes, I do seem to have an affinity for cold climes. And I thought cold weather training in Alaska was bad. This is frigging pathetic today!

MagnusP
19th Nov 2014, 15:57
A young lady of my acquaintance, on observing an @rse not unlike the one in Mike's piccy (albeit clad) turned to me and said "Dunno about you, But I would". :E

mikedreamer787
19th Nov 2014, 16:06
Love the top photo, not so much the bottom one. (Fat arse.)

Sorry mate. Under the impression you liked a bit of chunkybutt.

Extremely unlikely but I'll let you know if I do sight any penguins instead. ;)

West Coast
19th Nov 2014, 16:14
I responded to a specific comment by Dushan but he is just one of a small group amongst the American posters whose opinions on various topics constantly provide ammunition to those who are prejudiced against America/Americans.

FL

Yes, I've read your comments in the past about the San Diego area, you would have been a welcome addition. Your comments to Dushan seem to be a personal level. Not to say I'm not guilty of that at times, interesting to see you do the same.

West Coast
19th Nov 2014, 16:16
And arrange for some..um..little extras -

Go easy Mike, RGB is an old fart, that type of pic might cause him a heart attack.

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 16:44
West Coast:

Old fart eh? Old-ish in age perhaps but certainly not when, or where, it counts! Ya young whipper-snapper. :ok:

Dushan
19th Nov 2014, 16:48
RGB, re pictures above. You're welcome.

brickhistory
19th Nov 2014, 18:53
MagnusP, Con-pilot and I are probably most centrally located.

My current location was picked as the site of the former SAC because it was the furtherest, most centrally located locale. Not much more heartland than that.

In the spring we host the college World Series. At times we host finals for U.S. hockey, swimming, and golf competitions.

From about now until April-ish, we shiver and avoid the wind. :(

But my shooting range is indoors, heated, and would be my treat.

Regarding visiting England, I have to concur with Dushan. I acknowledge that only three visits does not a country desribe, but daily man-in-the-street interactions in London, Lincoln, and Yeovilton were rude, impatient, and condescending. Like a nation of Gertrude the Wombat. No thanks.

My friends and hosts, however, were magnificent. Perhaps the simple difference between stranger treatment and friendship.

I hope to visit Scotland. Wales is out as I'm not a great swimmer (that's for you, CG!)

Also Ireland, the bigger one.

But given limited travel funds, I'd spend them on someplace new or back to Germany which I particularly enjoy. Must be the ancestral genes...

I am glad to read of the good experiences visitors have had for my very large, disparate nation. For many of the aanoyances described, I and many of us, go the full Bill Clinton andfeel your pain.

charliegolf
19th Nov 2014, 19:03
My friends and hosts, however, were magnificent. Perhaps the simple difference between stranger treatment and friendship.

Brick, you mention Germany in your post, and looking at the quote above, I am reminded that that was exactly how my wife and I found it when living there. They have their ways, but when we went beyond the military locale (we travelled a bit around the country), we found that as soon as handshakes were exchanged, they were a differet race. When the ice was cracked, all the barriers seemed to come down.

CG

PS, there are roads, you know, all the way from Jockistan to Wales!

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 19:07
charliegolf:

Having lived in Germany myself for many years I have always found German people very kind indeed. As a GI I wasn't exactly embraced with open arms but after getting out and donning a civilian uniform I found a world of difference. And learning to speak the language fluently certainly didn't hurt.
I have many fond memories of Deutschland and the German people.

Capetonian
19th Nov 2014, 19:29
Of the many countries I've worked in, some of my best memories are of Germany. At work, between themselves, all very formal, and even people who'd worked together for 20 years were 'Sie' and 'Frau Schmidt' and 'Herr Strauss' but I was always told to use Christian names and 'dutzen'.

Always enjoyed staying in little Gasthauser over weekends, that lovely smell of wood and good healthy German food, going out and exploring using the clean and efficient public transport, and invariably ended up in conversations with people, even with my limited German ability.

Went to Berlin a few months ago and it reminded me what a great country it is and how kind people are.

Dushan
19th Nov 2014, 19:36
When I compare him to myself, I see that he's not so cranky as all that, and I am sure that this business of writing off England after just three visits is a bluff. (I must declare that he once bought me lunch, so that is report is colored by some bias.)



Shucks, chucks, now you gave it away and John Hill will know we conspired to form Trolling Tag Team.

radeng
19th Nov 2014, 20:10
One thing that surprised me about Berlin and most of Germany is how inexpensive it is. Especially in comparison with Switzerland, Sweden, Norway and London.....Frankfurt, I think, can be excepted from this generality in some places.....

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 20:11
radeng:

Muenchen is relatively inexpensive compared to other big cities as well. And especially in the northern end of Munich - Schwabing.

brickhistory
19th Nov 2014, 20:25
Is that last word the cue for a German cuties thread?

Kidding.

I had a very nice Swabish dinner this evening (about an hour south of Munich).

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 20:32
Actually, brick, Schwaben is an area in southwestern Deutschland (southwest of Muenchen as well) in Baden-Wuertemberg. Stuttgart is the main city. Lovely area indeed. But, obviously, not Bayerisch! Completely different dialect (Schwaebisch) as well.

Gruess Gott!

Oh, and as for German/Bavarian cuties, brick?

http://tristatebbq.com/porktoberque.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/german-girls-life-time-oktoberfest-beer-taste-female-drndl-demotivational-poster-1234118348-1.jpg

Amen to that statement!!!!!!


http://www.drunkt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/oktoberfest-drinking.jpg

Ach zu liebe Gott! Prosit.

brickhistory
19th Nov 2014, 20:38
Sorry for the geography mistake, but appreciate the local flavor.

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 20:43
No big deal on the geographical mistake brick. They forgive you.

http://backpackertours.co.uk/images/September-Oktoberfest-Munich-Germany-3.jpg

http://cdn.rsvlts.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Oktoberfest-2012-pictures-94.jpg

ExSp33db1rd
19th Nov 2014, 20:58
Ref.Taxy tipping. A million years ago one of our (Gay) crew took a taxi in N.York, the fare was 88c ( I said a million years ago - the flag fall was 25c) so he gave a dollar bill, then handed the 12c change back. The driver threw the 2 cents out of the window, with - Here, Buddy, you obviously need it more than me.

The crew member had taken an umbrella, which he was about to forget, and the driver said - Hey Fairy, you've forgotten your Wand - so said crew member picked it up, swirled it in the drivers' face and said - Turn to shit.

Earlier this year in L.A. I was walking ( yes, in L.A. ! ) along the avenue that passes LAX and goes under runway 25, but was slightly put off by signs saying "No Tunnel Entry to Pedestrians" ( or words to that effect) and " No Entry, Restricted Area -TSA." even tho' there was an acceptably wide walkway.

I might have been prepared to take on the Police by disobeying the No Entry sign, but not the TSA ! so stood expectantly by the entrance with thumb extended. Many Cadillacs, Lexus's and Lincolns and the like totally ignored me, but eventually an empty taxi stopped. I explained that I only wanted a "legal" lift through the tunnel, then I would continue my walk - which was to the Museum halfway down 25 L - and could he give me a ride ? He didn't start the meter, and wouldn't accept the tip I offered on the other side.

Leaving the tunnel, but still on a Freeway, I was apprehended by a Black and White Police cruiser, who wanted to know what I was doing walking along a Freeway. Having explained my destination he then gave me directions along sidestreets, and various crosswalks, and bade me farewell. ( he didn't offer me a lift ! )

I've had a few run-ins with USA traffic Police, all but one have given me alternative options and no ticket - often because they didn't understand a "Limey" licence - only once did I get a $10 ticket for speeding, tho' he "suspected that I had been drinking". Correct.

brickhistory
19th Nov 2014, 21:02
Walking in LA?!

Sir, that simply will not do.

Capetonian
19th Nov 2014, 21:27
I was stopped by police for walking in Houston, I was walking back from the Galeria to my flat about a mile away on the other side of what they call the Beltway (610?) and this police car draws up next to me : "You got a problem buddy?" I said no, explained why I was walking (nice day, exercise, not in a hurry). They asked me if I had a car, shook their heads in bewilderment when I said yes, but I chose not to use it, asked again if I was OK, and drove off.

Got stopped twice for speeding, once in Illinois, once in Oregon, both times treated with utmost courtesy and sense of humour. I really have nothing bad to say about the way USAmericans treat outsiders once we've got into the country.

Lonewolf_50
19th Nov 2014, 21:55
Walking in LA. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8Q3ywwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DR_UpLtGEWoY&ei=jhFtVP2LCdHOsQTb2oG4CQ&usg=AFQjCNFQJCzfE0o2pH70TivkkCv3k-diLQ&bvm=bv.80120444,d.cWc)

It happens.

ExSp33db1rd
19th Nov 2014, 23:37
Honolulu, circa 1960. 02.00 ( or thereabouts) Illegal U-turn leaving a night club, exceeding 25 mph Waikiki City speed limit, no lights, arm around girl friend, suspected drinking. "Limey" licence ?

That's when he called it a $10 ticket for speeding.

Loose rivets
20th Nov 2014, 00:25
I was walking up Beverly Drive - it gets small and skinny as you make the accent - and taking pictures of houses. A classy lady came out of her house and asked me what I was doing. I replied that Americans come to England and take pictures of our houses, so I was doing the reverse. She looked sideways at me and then laughed . . . before offering to move her car to make her house look better.

One bungalow had 14 Armed Response shields stuck in the front lawn so I guess all was not peace and tranquility up there.

Dushan
20th Nov 2014, 00:32
One bungalow had 14 Armed Response shields stuck in the front lawn so I guess all was not peace and tranquility up there.

Only 14? Probably Democrats. Republicans would have secured their house properly. :p

reynoldsno1
20th Nov 2014, 00:33
Lived in Michigan for 4 years - never heard a gunshot, or felt unsafe and no fences. Loved it. Got stopped by a local sheriff for speeding in Kentucky - speed limit 60, cruise control on 80, told him I thought 1 was doing a Michigan 70 - he laughed and told me travel safely, just a bit slower ...
Lovely country

Matari
20th Nov 2014, 01:08
Fellow PPruner CO280Xfx has a series of photographs posted over on Rotorheads, showing some stunning views of the US countryside from his helicopter office.

I hope this link works, it's worth a quick look: http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/292051-rotorheads-around-world-incl-views-cockpit-267.html#post7380701

chuks
20th Nov 2014, 06:08
I was coming down a hill outside of Wilmington, a small town in southern Vermont, in a Toyota Land Crusher when gravity took over. (The damned thing is so heavy that you need to ride the brakes to keep from accelerating going downhill.) I was thinking about something else, not watching the speed, which crept up.

A Wilmington town cop was parked half-hid behind a billboard when he got me on radar, probably doing 65-70 in a 55. I found a safe place to park, shut off the engine, put down the window and waited for whatever was going to play out once I saw him pull out behind me and put on the blue and red lights.

He did one of those, "License and registration, please," and "Do you know why I pulled you over, Sir?" routines, when I told him very politely that if my lawyer were there, he would tell me not to make any guesses about that, that I was sure he would tell me why all on his own.

Back and forth it went for a little while, him trying to get me to make a guess, me telling him that I thought that really was not something I should do, that I did not think that was a good idea. He asked me where the number was on my little plastic German license, which I showed him, and off he went to his cruiser, finally returning with a warning slip!

I think that if I had told him something like, "Well, officer, it might have been because I guess I was doing a bit over the limit there, going downhill in this heavy vehicle not paying close attention to my speed. Terribly sorry about that ... " then he would have thanked me for my help, confirming in my own words what I had not even been accused of yet, and then given me a speeding ticket, just doing his job.

"Polite" doesn't really come into it; the polite cops are the dangerous ones, really, because they are professional. I much prefer being shouted at a bit when I have done something naughty; let the cop blow off some steam that way rather than politely nailing me for whatever it was I just (allegedly) did.

John Hill
20th Nov 2014, 06:19
I was coming down a hill outside of Wilmington, a small town in southern Vermont, in a Toyota Land Crusher when gravity took over. (The damned thing is so heavy that you need to ride the brakes to keep from accelerating going downhill.)

Knowing how to operate the vehicle is apparently not required to get a German drivers licence.:rolleyes:

chuks
20th Nov 2014, 06:40
No, it wasn't, actually. I got the German license on the basis of a Maryland license I happened to find in my collection. Anyway, the cop was happy to let me off with a warning, John.

You he probably would have been taken off to jail for having an unsecured passenger, Baaahbara, sat there next to you in your rusty old bakkie, while driving under the influence of Woolite.

That's just my guess, of course.

John Hill
20th Nov 2014, 07:08
Please dont visit NZ until you learn to drive..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Baldwinstreet.jpg/534px-Baldwinstreet.jpg

West Coast
20th Nov 2014, 07:21
Hundreds dead on NZ roads, you have more to worry about than chuks.

Do you plan to counter with the number of driving death statistics in the US?

Yah, lots. Doesn't mean over 300 didn't die on NZ roads.

You've gone quiet on the thread you started regarding nukes and NZ. Why would that be?

West Coast
20th Nov 2014, 07:24
That road looks pretty tame. Try Lombard st.

probes
20th Nov 2014, 07:55
I was walking back from the Galeria to my flat about a mile away on the other side of what they call the Beltway (610?) and this police car draws up next to me : "You got a problem buddy?" I said no, explained why I was walking (nice day, exercise, not in a hurry). They asked me if I had a car...
:) a friend of mine from around Chicago said (in bewilderment): "We never walk to get somewhere. We walk for walking." (=drive a block to some park to do the walking). :E

ExSp33db1rd
20th Nov 2014, 08:11
That road looks pretty tame. Try Lombard st.

Yeah, at least a bit of it is straight !

MagnusP
20th Nov 2014, 08:13
I had a discussion with a police officer in Tucson at about 5 one morning when out walking 'cos I was jetlagged and couldn't sleep. Once he figured out I was a harmless loony Brit, he wished me a pleasant day, told me to take care and drove off. Complete courtesy. Had a different interaction with the London police one day when, in Trafalgar Square, I asked an officer "Can you tell me where Norway House is?". Smartass said "Yes" and walked away.

chuks
20th Nov 2014, 08:44
John, please dont (sic) dish out the free advice until you learn how to spell. (Did you notice those little red dots when you slapped your stuff onto the screen with all the care of a fry cook in a "greasy spoon"? Didn't they tell you anything?)

I got a free pass on my driving ability from the Wilmington Police Department. You, though ... the Grammar Police should only drag you away in chains and beat you over the head severely with volumes I through XX, inclusive, of the Oxford English Dictionary, trying to get some working knowledge of our shared language into your addled bonce.

Warm up with Lombard Street and then try the Passo dello Stelvio or the Gorges du Tarn, John. That should show you what really challenging roads are like.

John Hill
20th Nov 2014, 08:52
I am sure any good driving school would be pleased to reveal to you the mysteries of how to handle a motor vehicle without abusing the brakes.

Ancient Mariner
20th Nov 2014, 09:18
I have to side with John on this. Teaching No.1 Granddaughter driving, and " the mysteries of how to handle a motor vehicle without abusing the brakes" is a pet object. Especially since she is driving my car.
Per

Dushan
20th Nov 2014, 14:00
"the mysteries of how to handle a motor vehicle without abusing the brakes" is a pet object.

Being capable of driving without "abusing the brakes" is not as hard as it seems, but despite not having to use them to slow down one must, occasionally, because the idiots behind only react to the brake lights.

I can easily do my daily commute without using the brakes anywhere on the highway. I adjust my speed and anticipate slowdowns, well in advance. The guy sitting on my rear bumper, OTOH, not so much. That is why I have a little brake light override switch that turns them on without braking. It's fun to watch them panic breaking as they disappear in the distance of the rear view mirror.

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 14:08
Dushan wrote:

That is why I have a little brake light override switch that turns them on without braking. It's fun to watch them panic breaking as they disappear in the distance of the rear view mirror.

That sounds like fun. However, I have a different method of dealing with drivers who enjoy chomping on my car's ass. The middle finger extended prominently and in their specific direction, coupled with a glare in the rear view mirror seems to do the trick for me on most occasions.

Lonewolf_50
20th Nov 2014, 14:13
Feeling the love, rg, but I don't think that providing the "you're number one" sign makes the roads any safer.

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 14:17
LW:

Extending the universal sign of brotherhood is a whole lot safer than riding 6-10' off someone's ass at 75-80 mph. The finger is the least of what I'd really like to do to these culprits. :E

chuks
20th Nov 2014, 14:19
So, John, from your time driving a Toyota Land Cruiser with a 4.7-litre V8 and an automatic transmission in the Green Mountains of southern Vermont while thinking about Higher Things, how did you deal with this lead sled's annoying love of gravity, given that simply (ab)using the brakes seems to have been the wrong course of action?

Did you open a door to increase aerodynamic drag?

Did you put down a window and stick your head out to achieve the same effect?

Did you jettison a few sheep?

Yes, John, you can call me "mystified." (Well, if you knew how to spell that word you could. There is that .... )

Answers on a postcard, please.

mikedreamer787
20th Nov 2014, 14:28
A good method to get rid of some deadbeat
off your car's anality is -

1. Indicate right (US) or left (UK etc) - while
taking your foot of the accelerator. DON'T hit
the brakes as you really don't want said dick
banging in your rear end and screwing up yer
day. Don't actually pull over, just keep going
straight.

2. Allow vehicle to naturally slow down using
its own inertia.

3. A deadbeat's instinctive reaction will be to
pull out and overtake you where he'll become
potential hazard to some other poor bastard
ahead instead or you.

Capetonian
20th Nov 2014, 14:34
A deadbeat's instinctive reaction will be to
pull out and overtake you where he'll become
potential hazard to some other poor bastard
ahead instead or you. It's highly tempting to do things like this which endanger the tosser behind you, the problem is that it also endangers other innocent road users who have to share the road with the numpties. I admit I have succumbed to the temptation at times, but we really shouldn't.

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 14:39
Capetonian:

I agree, we really shouldn't do things like mikedreamer described. (mikedreamer, you bad man. :})

Instead said culprits should be coaxed to to pull of to the side of the road thus eliminating any potential hazard to other, innocent, drivers.

Once off the side of the road the asshole who likes to ride others' butts (car butts that is) should then be summarily executed with a bullet to the back of the head.

Case solved. :ok:

Dushan
20th Nov 2014, 15:03
Sounds about right, Mr. RGB, but you need to move the post to the US Gun thread where you will be labelled a "deranged individual lacking compassion and empathy" for the poor driver who simply forgot to mind the distance between his and your bumpers while texting.

mikedreamer787
20th Nov 2014, 15:09
should then be summarily executed with a bullet to the back of the head.

Well yeah - but I didn't want to appear a
poster who believes that a bullet solves
problems like this (though in fact we all
know it actually does). ;)

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 15:11
Dushan wrote:

Sounds about right, Mr. RGB, but you need to move the post to the US Gun thread where you will be labelled a "deranged individual lacking compassion and empathy"

My sense of compassion and empathy resides in the full metal jacket of a hollow point, for those needing to be recipients of the same. F**k the kumbaya crowd.

Lonewolf_50
20th Nov 2014, 15:55
chuks:

FWIW, I'd shift it into "L" on the automatic transmission's gear selector if the grade was presenting me with speed control problems in a vehicle.

But that's just me.
I've spent most of my years driving a stick/manual and think that way ... the gents gave me a lower gear, so I'll need to use it at some point.

I recall from the days when I was a kid that my dad would sometimes on hilly terrain shift the car to a lower gear. He was an automatic transmission fan, never bought a manual after his first ever car with a manual. Had to learn stick on my own, which I did when I bought my first used VW Beetle at the age of 19. (I still miss that car).

My wife is a "ride the brakes as a means of controlling the car" person, who I had to teach how to drive a manual after we married.
To this day, she still has a tendency to lug the engine when driving a stick, despite my teaching her otherwise.
It drives me nuts. Her reflexes are deeply ingrained to automatic transmission car controls: brake/accelerator.

We recently got rid of the Mini Cooper, a wonderful 6 speed manual that was immense fun to drive, upgrading her to a small SUV with an automatic transmission that can be switched to manual control. Also a six speed (a Toyota RAV 4).

It makes her shake her head when I move the shift lever to allow me to control the gear shift timing. Me, I like to be in control of the car. Maybe it's the pilot in me ...

Both of my kids had to learn how to drive a stick, and demonstrate to me their ability, before being allowed to test for their license. They are both competent in manual transmission driving.

Back to the OP topic, and a comment on America, which is my homeland:

The best thing about the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 is that it highlighted the fuel savings inherent in a manual versus an automatic transmission. (A few MPG for most cars).
Sticks returned to popularity as various auto makers pursued the mileage standards, but Detroit still put out mostly automatic transmissions. Pissed me off. As time goes on, the automakers keep trying to make cars that "drive for you" which IMO is a deadly bad thing. it's kind of like the fly by wire + autopilot overreliance issue with flying: it breeds the atrophy or failed imbedding of good driving skills.

Anecdote: I chose not to repair the cruise control on our Chrysler Mini van about six years ago ( no longer have the car) and for the last four years controlled the speeds on the highway the old fashioned way. With my foot. Not that hard to do. Got the same gas miieage we got with CC.

Who's driving: you or the car?

I'll stop with what can be an extensive rant on the topic of bad drivers and bad driving ... and the auto industry's part in that.

MagnusP
20th Nov 2014, 16:06
Yep; got manual mode in the Merc for descent. Rescued too many tourists in rentals who burned out the brakes coming down Mauna Kea.

For tailgaters I flash the rear fog lights to make them think I'm hitting the brakes.

Ancient Mariner
20th Nov 2014, 16:19
If you have a problem with tailgaters, you are probably driving too slow. Next to the brake pedal there should be another one for acceleration, try it. ;)
Per

Edit to avoid dangerous misunderstandings. To the right of the brake pedal, etc..........................

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 16:24
Per wrote:

If you have a problem with tailgaters, you are probably driving too slow.

I have tailgaters when I'm driving at 80mph in a 55mph zone. I wouldn't say 80mph is slow. Not for the U.S. anyway.

Ancient Mariner
20th Nov 2014, 16:27
That's the problem with the roads in the US, too straight, you can't shake them off.
Per

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 16:29
Sure you can shake them off, Per. It just takes a bit of gentle persuasion.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/maddogmulgrew/missile-balloons-for-your-car-xl.jpg

Keef
20th Nov 2014, 16:30
If I drive along some of the roads here at "the limit" (30) or that plus 10%, I'll soon have someone within inches of my bumper. Once we get out of the limit area, they disappear in my rear view mirror. Then reappear at the next village.

It's called "I always drive at 42".

I've found that a couple of blips of the hazard flashers gets through to them.

chuks
20th Nov 2014, 16:33
Yes, I do know about down-shifting. It was the first thing they taught us in the off-road driving course at Fort Gordon, actually. It doesn't do much in a Land Cruiser with the old four-speed automatic, though. Using the brakes is much more effective, and they are built to take it.

Really, I just get a kick out of the way some folks have to get their superior knowledge out there in front of us, doing that "naming of parts," so to speak.

Bergerie1
20th Nov 2014, 17:10
If I have someone driving too close up my arse I wash my windscreen, all perfectly legal. If you keep your own windscreen clean - no problem. If the guy behind hasn't he has a nice smeary screen. It works a treat!

obgraham
20th Nov 2014, 17:53
Tailgaters are easily dealt with. Just jam the brakes on hard. He'll run up your backside. Repairs are on him. Once his insurance rises enough, he'll learn his lesson.

Flying Lawyer
20th Nov 2014, 18:12
In many (all?) states in the US you have the advantage of being allowed to overtake lane-blockers on either side.

Lane discipline is virtually non-existent here. Most drivers stay in the middle of the three lanes for their entire motorway journey regardless of their speed (or lack of it.)

con-pilot
20th Nov 2014, 18:23
Lane discipline is virtually non-existent here. Most drivers stay in the middle of the three lanes for their entire motorway journey regardless of their speed (or lack of it.)

Sad to say, it is getting much the same over here, but here it seems that the slow drivers stay in the inside lane, officially the 'passing' lane, driving 10 to 20 miles an hour under the speed limit.

However, as you posted, at least we are allowed to pass the slower drivers no matter which lane they are in.

Once in England I wasn't thinking, passed a truck that was on the inside lane, just as we are allowed in the US, and was stopped by the police. They were very friendly and explained the error of my ways, then let me go.


Oh, I wasn't about to tell them I knew better and had just forgotten, sometimes I do know when to keep my mouth shut.

John Hill
20th Nov 2014, 18:28
A useful modification (which may be impossible nowadays) was to fit a foot switch on the floor (of course) to the left of the brake pedal and wired across the accelerator 'kick-down' switch.

With the left foot resting on the little footrest it was very convenient to move to the switch at which point the transmission would move to 'L' ratio regardless of speed and throttle position.

Very handy for hill driving and especially useful for overtaking.


Of course you need a little knowledge of the technicalities of your particular transmission and to not drill any holes where there is something vital on the other side.

BTW, knowledge is considered essential in some industries and lack of it can be a severe career dampener. For example I recall a young chap in Lagos (that is in Nigeria) who failed to get the seat he longed for in the front office of a DO328, maybe it was lack of knowledge that held him back or perhaps his personality.

Krystal n chips
20th Nov 2014, 18:40
That sounds like fun. However, I have a different method of dealing with drivers who enjoy chomping on my car's ass. The middle finger extended prominently and in their specific direction, coupled with a glare in the rear view mirror seems to do the trick for me on most occasions

Followed by....

I have tailgaters when I'm driving at 80mph in a 55mph zone. I wouldn't say 80mph is slow. Not for the U.S. anyway

So, basically, you are incapable of any form of driving discipline and are as much, if not more, of a danger to others whom you condemn.

Nothing quite like the piety of the hypocrite really now is there ?

And then comes yet another, well, "insightful personal assessment"....

"It's highly tempting to do things like this which endanger the tosser behind you, the problem is that it also endangers other innocent road users who have to share the road with the numpties. I admit I have succumbed to the temptation at times, but we really shouldn't. "

John Hill
20th Nov 2014, 18:45
While on the subject of annoying close following traffic and modifications... an idea for consideration...

Fit an air or hydraulic device that can quickly lift the rear suspension of your vehicle and wire up the actuating switch so that when the driver pushes the switch the brake lights come on and rear of your vehicle lifts. The following driver will get a very strong impression that you are panic braking and will do the same!:p

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 18:47
K&C:

Perhaps if you knew more about driving in the US, which you obviously know nothing about at all, you would know that no one here obeys speed limits. 10-15 mph, or more, over the speed limit on a highway is the norm here. (In NY anyway.) I have often been passed by drivers driving well over 85 mph.

And as for your assertion that I am "incapable of any form of driving discipline"? I have been driving for over 40 years now. I have never been involved in an accident. Not once.

con-pilot
20th Nov 2014, 18:49
Such as these cars John?

Lowriders Cars Bounce on Broadway - New York Post - YouTube

John Hill
20th Nov 2014, 19:27
Thats the technology con-pilot, you just need a sudden 'butt lift' and blazing brake lights. A nice puff of blue smoke would complete the effect. Push the button and see your rear buffer zone instantly restored!

We used to be cursed with bone numbing 'music' thumping down the street and the equipment must still be available. A two horsepower sound system (external speakers of course) and a short sound clip of tortured rubber has significant entertainment potential, think driver with phone stuck in his ear, driver applying lipstick etc etc. Leave the cyclists alone!

Dushan
20th Nov 2014, 19:57
In many (all?) states in the US you have the advantage of being allowed to overtake lane-blockers on either side. In the UK we are not permitted to overtake on the left on motorways so have to wait until they eventually move over or exit the motorway.

Lane discipline is virtually non-existent here.

What happens if you are in your left (slow) lane doing speed limit and some idiot is going less than speed limit in the passing lane? Are you not allowed to just continue, or do you have to slow down, and sit behind him until he moves, which may take a while, depending on how long the text message he is composing is.

con-pilot
20th Nov 2014, 20:14
We used to be cursed with bone numbing 'music' thumping down the street and the equipment must still be available

We still are here, I've had vehicles with these sound systems install stop beside me or right behind me and the bass is so loud I'd think something just went wrong with my car.

There is a law against this sort of stuff, but it doesn't seem to be enforced all that much. Or more likey, as soon as they see a cop car they turn the noise off.

wings folded
20th Nov 2014, 20:19
What happens if you are in your left (slow) lane doing speed limit and some idiot is going less than speed limit in the passing lane? Are you not allowed to just continue, or do you have to slow down, and sit behind him until he moves, which may take a while, depending on how long the text message he is composing is.

Interesting hypothetical, but it never happens.

You and he will be part of a seven mile long convoy, two or three lanes wide, progressing at 34 mph because of (choose what you want):

1. Road works
2. Cones indicating road works, but no workers or work visible
3. The time of day (avoid congestion periods)
4. Dangerous weather (slightly overcast, chance of drizzle)
5. An accident 40 miles ahead
6. A junction, where other cars are attempting to join your road (how dare they?)
7. A clearly marked police motorway patrol vehicle going very slowly
8. An accident 40 miles ahead but not on your side of the road
9. Drivers slowing down to read the digital broadcasts on the overhead gantries which advise:
"Think speed, slow down"
or
"10:15, Thursday 20th November"

Lonewolf_50
20th Nov 2014, 20:22
chuks:
Your post to John got me thinking, hence my using your post as a stepping off point for my little rant about the slow disappearance of standard transmission from general circulation in this country.

I didn't really want to interrupt the discussion you were having with John H ...

John Hill
20th Nov 2014, 20:33
I didn't really want to interrupt the discussion you were having with John H ...

I would not worry about it too much as I am sure he will follow me around and take it up from where he left off, or somewhat earlier.

chuks
20th Nov 2014, 21:21
You've been to Lagos too, John? Well, if you say so .... On Leer Jets, probably.

Were you the priestess who looked after the sacred grove, up near Ilorin? No, wait, she was a German, I think. Rated on Dorniers though, one assumes ....

Yes, I wanted a kick-down switch in my Dornier, but I just didn't drill the little hole in the right place. Terrible whistling noise, once the darn thing started to pressurize. Boy, our Chief Engineer sure was crabby over that one!

brickhistory
20th Nov 2014, 21:25
I was unaware that "chuks" was the English translation for "North Korea Surveillance. "

Pprune is educational indeed...

Flash2001
20th Nov 2014, 21:33
The pipes and drums of the 48th Highlanders cued up and ready on the stereo with the level maxed out makes a good response!

After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again!

ExSp33db1rd
20th Nov 2014, 23:47
Apart from incorrect signalling on roundabouts by NZ drivers - which frequently winds me up, as you will have noticed - whilst it might be necessary to dab the brakes prior to going into a corner, why do a lot of drivers do that when going uphill ! Can't they just take their foot off the gas FFS ? Energy managment isn't difficult to learn, if there is a will.

I also "assist" automatic transmissions to "think ahead" when approaching increasing gradients - up and down. Can't see the harm.

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 00:02
I also "assist" automatic transmissions to "think ahead" when approaching increasing gradients - up and down. Can't see the harm.

Apparently this is beyond the skills of some Land Cruiser drivers.

Of course that is the purpose of the extra kick down switch, it enables the driver to easily force a lower ratio when going down hill and prior to opening the throttle for overtaking etc.

obgraham
21st Nov 2014, 00:47
What you are seeing there is the same as what we have here. A whole generation of Left Footed Brakers. They drive with left foot hovering on the brake, and right pressing varyingly on the accel.

And many times both pedals firmly pressed.

Clutch? Wazzat?

gupta
21st Nov 2014, 00:58
extra kick down switch Why??
You've already got one, its called the selector (column or console)
Or, in v modern cars, its called the "paddles" behind the wheel

Loose rivets
21st Nov 2014, 01:04
I started a thread many years ago about left foot braking in autos. I was surprised how many PPRuNers did it. My argument for nearly 50 years is that it reduces the time from stimulus, to break pressure up. Something like, .35 seconds to .18 IIRC. A life-saver.

Both my wife and I hover over the brakes while in pedestrian type areas. The one bad habit to get into is touching the brakes hard enough to ranondomly flash the brake lights. Darned annoying for the guy behind you.


What are the signs I see in Texas about NO ENGINE BRAKING. Why would they say that?

Overtaking on the left is allowed in the UK if you are going to turn left (say, to leave motorway.) Nowhere can I find just how far away from the junction qualifies you to pass on the left.

Also, say the traffic on your right starts to slow down fairly sharply. Are you supposed to brake despite having a clear lane ahead?

gupta
21st Nov 2014, 01:11
Hi RivetsNO ENGINE BRAKING - I'd say that refers to activating the exhaust brake on larger trucks - very noisy

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 01:16
Engine braking, AKA downshifting revs the engine and makes noise. Residential areas usually have that sign. They can go, you know what...

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 01:24
Engine braking, AKA downshifting revs the engine and makes noise.

Are you another who should not be entrusted with the care and operation of expensive machinery?

galaxy flyer
21st Nov 2014, 01:32
It refers to the exhaust brake, aka "Jake brake" after Jacobs Engineering Co. who designed it. Yes, noisy, but saves brakes on juggernauts, artics or semis.

GF

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 01:33
Can you explain what is it you find incorrect with my statement?

con-pilot
21st Nov 2014, 01:36
Engine braking, AKA downshifting revs the engine and makes noise. Residential areas usually have that sign. They can go, you know what...

If you have ever driven an '18 wheeler' as I have*, that is a industry standard way to reduce speed and absolutely vital for going down steep hills.

And yes, it does make noise, a lot of noise. :E



* My son has one to transport his race cars. Hell, I can even back the sucker into a parking space.


Okay, okay, some times it takes a couple of tries. :O

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 01:38
It refers to the exhaust brake, aka "Jake brake" after Jacobs Engineering Co. who designed it. Yes, noisy, but saves brakes on juggernauts, artics or semis.

True. Not usually fitted to Toyota Land Cruisers or Mazda Pooftermobiles.

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 01:40
And yes, it does make noise, a lot of noise.
Some noise but not near as much as a compression release brake such as the Jacobs brake.

Loose rivets
21st Nov 2014, 01:44
Given the right lead, one was able to find the answer . . . eventually.



The Jacobs Engine Brake then releases the compressed air, (air fuel mix just before combustion.) and the energy stored in it, before it can push back on the piston during the downstroke. In addition, releasing the compression prevents any fuel in the cylinder from igniting.


http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1501/what-are-jake-brakes-and-why-are-they-prohibited-in-some-locations

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 01:44
Why??
You've already got one, its called the selector (column or console)

The foot switch allows two hands on the wheel and is a lot more convenient to use.

No paddles on my old ute but The Stig seemed to like them.

con-pilot
21st Nov 2014, 01:47
Some noise but not near as much as a compression release brake such as the Jacobs brake.

Sorry, I guess I was not clear enough, my son's truck is equipped with the 'Jake Brake'. In fact, I don’t think that there is an ’18 wheeler’ in the US without one.

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 02:02
The foot switch allows two hands on the wheel and is a lot more convenient to use.

No paddles on my old ute but The Stig seemed to like them.

Modern cars (soon at a dealership on your friendly island) with automatic transmissions have the feature built into the gas pedal. When I floor my Bimmer, it automatically downshifts and takes off. I bet you chuks' Land Crusher has the same. No drilling required.

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 02:04
Good grief! Are you really allowed out alone? The object of this exercise is to change the transmission ratio 'down' without opening the throttle.:rolleyes:

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 02:15
Really, you don't open the throttle when you want to overtake someone?

You said:
With the left foot resting on the little footrest it was very convenient to move to the switch at which point the transmission would move to 'L' ratio regardless of speed and throttle position.

Very handy for hill driving and especially useful for overtaking.

Stick to sheep and "N" gauge, John.

rh200
21st Nov 2014, 02:17
Engine braking.

All engines are capable of engine braking, its just the efficiency that changes and what extras they put to enhance it.

Doesn't usually work very well with automatic transmissions unless they have a lockup clutch. Or in the case of Allison's you manually forced the shift to where the system would keep the lockup engaged.

The old adage was you go down a hill in the gear you went up in, sort of changed over the years. Trucks are no different than cars in that respect, if you have a heavily ladened vehicle, you go down the hill in the gear that the engine will hold you, hence lessoning potential brake fade. The vast majority of so called brake failures on heavy vehicles is usually due to not selecting the right gear.

The use of Jake brakes, or the old Dynatard in Mack terminology was good as it allowed quicker decents. This got counteracted by community pressure in some places due to noise.

Pinky the pilot
21st Nov 2014, 03:48
My son has one to transport his race cars.

What type of race car, con-pilot? Can you post some piccies?:ok:

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 04:03
Really, you don't open the throttle when you want to overtake someone?

Here, let me explain it to you...

When driving a manual transmission one would change down and bring the engine up to optimum revolutions for acceleration prior to committing to an overtaking manoeuvre.

It is possible to do the same with an automatic transmission by moving the selector lever and opening the throttle or you could use the 'you beute'® accessory kick down switch. Otherwise one could wait for the overtaking opportunity then kick the throttle and wait some more for the transmission to change down, the engine to come up to its power band and only then begin to accelerate.

There are good reasons why manual transmissions are still to be found in motor racing.

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 06:08
... kick the throttle and wait some more for the transmission to change down, the engine to come up to its power band and only then begin to accelerate.


Maybe on "on my old ute" as available in NK and NZ, but on modern cars this happens pretty much instantaneously.

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 07:08
but on modern cars this happens pretty much instantaneously.

Maybe some people are happy to accept 'pretty much'.:rolleyes:

chuks
21st Nov 2014, 08:02
John, some people waste a lot of time on trivia, dreaming up a way to install an extra kick-down switch in their crappy old ute, for instance, when simply moving the gear selector, or using the in-built, manufacturer tested and approved, kick-down switch on the accelerator pedal might be a better solution to what is essentially your non-problem. Or, you could buy a more modern vehicle; we have a 3-series BMW with those paddles you mention, paddles I almost never use.

I assume, John, that you have not driven a 2002 Toyota Land Cruiser with the 4.7-litre V8 and the four-speed automatic transmission in the Green Mountains of southern Vermont, as I did for the better part of three years, so that, essentially, you are not writing anything here based on direct knowledge of that particular topic. I would stick to trying to figure out who started the Korean War before moving farther afield, if I were you.

Do I give anyone relationship advice about sheep, whether letting Baaahbara sit up front when the rest of the flock have to make do with the bed in the back might cause some jealousy? Well, no, because I have no direct experience of that. I will leave this particular field of knowledge to those who must know what they are writing about, Australasians and such; I would hate to have to guess.

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Nov 2014, 09:31
Maybe on "on my old ute" as available in NK and NZ, but on modern cars this happens pretty much instantaneously.

Actually, it's much better to 'pre-load' the gear you will need, even with the 6 speed BMW box (which is apparently the best), rather than waste a finite amount of time waiting for it to think about doing it, and it's much smoother.

Especially pertinent on twisty roads when you're trying to balance front and rear wheel drift and you need instant reaction to your right foot movement.

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 09:40
I fear such niceties as pre-loading the transmission would be lost on someone who does not really know what the vehicle brakes are for.

Capetonian
21st Nov 2014, 09:44
A friend of mine solves the problem of downgrades and corners by coasting round them in neutral. Until you've passengered with a driver who does that, it is hard to imagine how horribly dangerous it feels, and yet he is comfortable with it and tells me that is how he learnt to drive ............ in the Netherlands where they don't have hills or bends in the roads!

None of my my other Kloggie friends drive like that.

chuks
21st Nov 2014, 10:01
Someone wants to slow his crappy old ute down. Does he:

A. Step on the brakes?

B. Step on the home-made kick-down switch he spent hours hand-crafting with, presumably, his flock of baffled sheep looking on?

Who is that who does not know what the brakes are for? You tell me, but I would guess it's the guy who goes for option B, above.

Even more horrifying, how does this same fellow know that Mazda MX-5s are "pooftermobiles"? What mind-searing experience led him to that conclusion? Don't try to tell me he was just making that one up! Did he have an unfortunate encounter, out hitching a ride one day when his crappy old ute broke down, one that left him eating his dinner off the mantle for a solid week?

LSM, the BMW we have is the previous model with the 6-speed automatic (not the one with two clutches but just a conventional auto with a torque converter), a 330d Xdrive, the one with a 3-litre straight six from the 5-series. (The latest models have a 7-speed automatic.) Even so, it's very sophisticated.

You need to drive it to appreciate it. When you shift it down manually the engine revs rise, of course, but there's no jolt to that at all. I guess the car's computer system is compensating for whatever you ask for. Sat there stopped you can shift between D and N with no change in the engine revs, for instance.

When you want to pass, you just step on the gas and the car takes off very, very smoothly. I assume that the computer tells the engine to back off a bit while the transmission downshifts, then the twin turbos kick in and off you go. When you look at the torque curve, it rises steeply and is then basically flat all the way to the redline.

If you need to play "boy racer" then you can go into manual mode, either toggling the shift lever forward and back in a slot to the left of the normal position, or else using the paddles, one for upshift, one for downshift, but you are just fooling around then; the computer can do all that for you 'pretty much' as well.

Also, the brakes on the 330 are huge, so big that the smallest wheels you can fit are 17-inch. Curiously, the rear brakes are about the same size as the front brakes.

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Nov 2014, 10:14
Chuks, I mostly agree, I've got the 320d with the 6 speed auto and it is very good. The only thing it can't do is know which gear you want to be in in advance. I prefer to minimise brake use and tend to use down changes to slow me down (more efficient) which means I'm in the right gear for corners, or whatever, before I need them.

goudie
21st Nov 2014, 11:38
Ah, good! A thread about car driving technique. I was getting fed up with some other thread about 'wot I fink of 'murica' and 'muricans:rolleyes:

Ancient Mariner
21st Nov 2014, 12:36
Speaking of which, No.1 grand daughter passed her driving test today with flying colours thank to her splendid tutor. Now the proud owner of a driving license, one expect her to be available for transport 24 x 7.
For the ongoing discussion on "driving techniques" one shakes one's head and looks in the cupboard for popcorn................and maybe a single malt. One have (hmmmm, has?) one's private chauffeur.
Per

chuks
21st Nov 2014, 13:49
Driving is one of those "guy" things, when we all like to think we are experts.

Of course, some of us are lucky enough to live in countryies where you really do need to learn how to drive, with good training available for not too much money. Even so, some oik from the out-back who can barely manage clattering along in his clapped-out bakkie full of bleating beauties still wants to stick his oar in and tell all of us how it's meant to be done.

To try to combine the two topics, although rgb will no doubt want to name the denizens of the Nutmeg State, I have to say that the lousiest driving standards I have experienced are found in and around Boston, Massachusetts. Rude, inconsiderate, incompetent ... Boston drivers have it all!

A New York cab-driver is Juan Manuel Fangio by comparison to the average Bostonian on wheels, and how I managed not to squash two or three of them, just passing through in my Land Crusher, I will never know.

rgbrock1
21st Nov 2014, 14:50
chuks wrote

To try to combine the two topics, although rgb will no doubt want to name the denizens of the Nutmeg State, I have to say that the lousiest driving standards I have experienced are found in and around Boston, Massachusetts. Rude, inconsiderate, incompetent ... Boston drivers have it all!You just knew I'd weigh in on this topic once you brought the Nutjob State into the fray, no?

I've also driven in, or through, Boston on a number of occasions. And although I do agree that Bostonians, when they drive, can be extremely aggressive and downright rude at times, no driver in any county, town, city or state comes near the absolute incompetence of a CT driver. None. The citizens of the Nutjob State are clueless when it comes to driving. (Well, clueless in many other regards as well but that's a topic for a different discussion.)

Furthermore (see what you've done now chuks?) I believe CT should be forced to secede from the Union and become a part of Siberia. Or Outer Mongolia. Or, even better, Pluto.

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 15:46
Or maybe they have something similar like "sheep for shagging" in places where they drive old utes?

Like you say chuks,
Or, you could buy a more modern vehicle; we have a 3-series BMW with those paddles you mention, paddles I almost never use.

Now for fun driving I have a 5 speed manual. Goes out only on weekends in pursuit of twisty roads. Zoom, zoom.

For daily commute, the last thing I want to do is think about shifting, looking for obscure buttons on the floor of the 7-series BMW, or even using paddles and shift lever. Imagine tapping into the I-bus of the Munich designed electronics to override something that the German engineers considered "proper"? That would be soooo verboten.

So no, I don't care whether it is "instant" or "pretty much" all I care about is not to get in some idiot's, in a ute, way. I enjoy the music, the heated seat and steering wheel, the comfort of extra long wheelbase. But in the unlikely possibility that I need to get out of the way in a hurry the V-8 takes off rather nicely when instructed.

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 15:52
And although I do agree that Bostonians, when they drive, can be extremely aggressive and downright rude at times,

They also tend to miss a bridge, on Martha's Vineyard, on occasion, and end up in a ditch full of water.

rgbrock1
21st Nov 2014, 15:54
Dushan wrote:

They also tend to miss a bridge, on Martha's Vineyard, on occasion, and end up in a ditch full of water.

Mary Jo style. :E

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 16:52
Mary Jo style. :E

Oh, no, much worse that that. "not being able to run for President" style.

Lonewolf_50
21st Nov 2014, 17:02
Ah, good! A thread about car driving technique. I was getting fed up with some other thread about 'wot I fink of 'murica' and 'muricans:rolleyes:

Given how mad about cars Americans have been for the last 100 years, any thread about is incomplete without a discussion of cars, or as they were called years ago in another land, 'motor cars.' :cool:

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Nov 2014, 17:17
Given how mad about cars Americans have been for the last 100 years,

How come you've never made one that goes round corners then?

Lonewolf_50
21st Nov 2014, 17:18
LSM, what the fk are you talking about?

rgbrock1
21st Nov 2014, 17:21
LSM:

re: your last post. New shipment of Elmer's Glue came in I see. :}:E

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Nov 2014, 17:23
It's well known that American cars are only good in a straight line, if you show one a corner it'll fall over.

KBPsen
21st Nov 2014, 17:30
On the plus side, should it fall over in a remote place, you can always eat the suspension as it's mostly made of Jell-O.

finfly1
21st Nov 2014, 17:32
Self driving cars are here, now. Their crash record can hardly be worse than the other kind.

brickhistory
21st Nov 2014, 17:33
It's ok, it's a straight shot to the dentist...

chuks
21st Nov 2014, 17:36
Never heard of the Corvette, have you? Goes around corners, goes fast in a straight line, relatively cheap for what it can do, and it's made in America! Engineered in America too, which has to count for something. It might be the only modern sports car with a leaf spring suspension, if you are into that "trivia" thing.

Poor Teddy, if only he had been driving a Beetle ....

KBPsen
21st Nov 2014, 17:42
I've heard of it, I've even driven it. It's the 1950's wrapped in cellofane to make it look modern. It went round corners like my Aunt Gerda before her hip replacement.

con-pilot
21st Nov 2014, 17:44
How come you've never made one that goes round corners then?

Quite simply because we do not need to. Never have since the 1950s.

The Interstate system you know and the vast majority of our secondary roads are straight with only mild turns and curves.

There are exceptions of course, but for the most part Americans use car to get back and forth to work and for vacations (holidays), not pretending to be F-1 drivers on an F-1 track.

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Nov 2014, 18:06
Chuks, don't get me wrong I love muscle cars and big V8s, I had a Dax Cobra for years and my mate has a Charger, but they don't do corners and I'm sorry...anything with leaf springs won't either.

rgbrock1
21st Nov 2014, 18:09
LSM:

Well then, I guess you never had the thrill of driving one of these. No leaf springs were used in the making of this automobile. And it'll take corners as well as, if not better than, anything you people put upon a set of wheels.

http://www.carspicturesdb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Ford-sports-cars-ford-cars-american-made-cars-american-classic-cars.jpg

West Coast
21st Nov 2014, 18:10
It's well known that American cars are only good in a straight line, if you show one a corner it'll fall over.

Been catching up with top gear on the telly I see.

I'll take a 2015 vette Oder anything manufactured in the UK

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Nov 2014, 18:13
Rg, is that in production? What's it called?

WC, nope, general knowledge old man.

I'll take a 2015 vette Oder anything manufactured in the UK

Me too. ;)

rgbrock1
21st Nov 2014, 18:17
LSM:

That, my man, is a Ford GT90. It never quite made it to mass production but a few prototypes were manufactured and a few were manufactured for sale*. My cousin was on the design team who came up with this supercar so I was most fortunate to have been given the opportunity to drive one once.

It's a shame it never entered production, even in limited amounts, because this car could have taken on any of the big Euro-made supercars, including
the Lamborghini.

*If you know where to look you can still actually buy one.

Performance

0-60: 3.1 sec
0-100: 6.2 sec
quarter mile at 140 mph (225 km/h) 10.9 sec
top speed: 235 mph (378 km/h)

Specifications

chassis:carbon fibre body panels on aluminum honeycomb monocoque
length: 4470 mm (176 in)
width: 1963 mm (77.3 in)
height: 1140 mm (44.9 in)
wheelbase: 2946 mm (116 in)
suspension: double wishbone
steering: rack-and-pinion,power assisted
brakes: ventilated all round discs
gearbox: 5-speed manual
drive: rear wheel (2 wheel)
weight: 3199 lbs (1451 kg)

Engine

configuration: V12
location: middle
construction: aluminum block and head
displacement: 5.927 liter/361.7 cu in
bore: 90.2 mm (3.6 in)
stroke: 77.3 mm (3 in)
compression: 8,0:1
valve train: 4 valves/cylinder,DOHC
fuel feed: fuel injection
aspiration: 4 garret T2 turbos
power: 720 bhp/537 KW at 6600 rpm
torque: 660 ft lbs at 4750 rpm

con-pilot
21st Nov 2014, 18:18
Rg, is that in production? What's it called?


Yeah, what the hell is that? :p

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Nov 2014, 18:21
Cheers RG, probably only went round corners because it had Jaguar suspension ;)

rgbrock1
21st Nov 2014, 18:30
And then there is the American-made Hennesy Venom GT, as well.

http://db.carbuzz.com/images2/360000/2000/100/362164.jpg

Blows away even a Bugatti.

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Nov 2014, 18:38
British built, modified Lotus. ;)

rgbrock1
21st Nov 2014, 18:45
Parts of it are assembled in Britain with American-made parts.

John Hill
21st Nov 2014, 19:14
For anyone who is not familiar with the term 'ute', this one is mine.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7508/15844044441_028f449d4c.jpg

It is 17 years old and I dont anticipate replacing it any time soon. It is not a luxury vehicle and sure as hades does not invoke wealth envy in this town which is riding the crest of the dairy industry boom (not so much of a boom this year).

It has a brake pedal which is very useful for bringing the vehicle to a halt and for the occasional, usually unforseen, requirement to suddenly reduce speed.

Also very handy when doing a spot of camping...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7493/15658571998_9ca89cf520.jpg


...or out on the farm.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7475/15660400537_3fed723a65.jpg

charliegolf
21st Nov 2014, 21:14
My newest main observation about America seems to be they only talk about cars n gearboxes etc. Not guns, funnily enough!:E
CG

pigboat
21st Nov 2014, 21:20
Class act...

Pittsburgh Penguins Play National Anthem In Classy Tribute To Canada (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/22/pittsburgh-penguins-o-canada_n_6032018.html)

...And turn about being fair play...

Toronto Maple Leafs Fans Sing National Anthem After Microphone Fails (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/20/maple-leafs-american-anthem_n_6193658.html)

Dushan
21st Nov 2014, 21:31
pigboat, you figure the UK fans would have done that for, let's say, France or Getmany?

con-pilot
21st Nov 2014, 22:23
Toronto Maple Leafs Fans Sing National Anthem After Microphone Fails

Now that is just flat out awesome! :ok:

chuks
21st Nov 2014, 22:26
I love the little sunshade, Darling, but it needs a hand-bag dangling from the rear-view mirror, a beaded one, to complete the look.

Any you have the nerve to call a Mazda MX-5 gay? That thing of yours looks like a goddam dildo!

Man, I picked the wrong week to stop taking drugs!

Dont invoke the unforseen, for what is once seen often cannot later be unseen.

obgraham
21st Nov 2014, 23:09
But, Chuks, he's installed a little pressbutton, which allows him to race by any real vehicle blocking his way in a four wheel drift, without actually accelerating.

Heckuvamachine, that.

Cool mountain, though.

con-pilot
21st Nov 2014, 23:16
Cool mountain, though.

Car or no car, pretty views.

But, we have mountains like that in Oklahoma.





Okay, I lied, no we don't. :(


But we have some very nice hills. :O

pigboat
21st Nov 2014, 23:21
pigboat, you figure the UK fans would have done that for, let's say, France or Getmany?

Non und nein doch! ;)

ExSp33db1rd
22nd Nov 2014, 01:12
.......or as they were called years ago in another land, 'motor cars.'

Do you mean automobiles ?

nomorecatering
22nd Nov 2014, 01:16
The Clarkson review: Chevrolet Corvette Stingray convertible (2014) | Driving.co.uk (http://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/the-clarkson-review-2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-convertible/)

Well, things seem to be picking up. Top Gears Jeremy Clarkson likes, no loves the new Corvette.

It seems it's not just Clarkson has fallen for the Corvette

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfejZsjiAII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAIValZdnXM

Definitely on my bucket list when I retire, buy a Jeep and do the Rubicon trail. I just love how many people, all volunteers work hard to make it safe and enjoyable.

seacue
22nd Nov 2014, 01:36
Reply to #234

At risk of offending Canadians, the USA and English portions of Canada share a lot of the same heritage. That can't be said of Britain, France and Germany.

We share a (nearly) common language and legal attitudes related to ancient British laws.

Some years ago, about half the main presenters on the top USA evening TV news broadcasts were Canadians, perhaps softening their Ontario accents somewhat to "pass" on US TV.

And whole seaside towns in Florida become "Canadian" during the winter. Hollywood sees a lot of Quebec cars, and restaurants along the beach have menus in French as well as English. Motels placard "TV en Francais". Up the coast, by Pompano Beach, many cars have Ontario license plates.

chuks
22nd Nov 2014, 07:43
Many moons ago, we started up a small airline in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

When we got there in mid-winter there were all these white folks running around wearing bright summer attire. We were bundled up like Eskimos, wondering if someone was having a joke. It was too late for Halloween, so what was going on?

We were told that those people were "snow birds," Canadian tourists, to whom a brisk 10º C. ocean breeze and spatters of cold rain were like the breath of the tropics compared to their homeland's minus 15 and snow up to their belly buttons.

The locals loved these folks of course, since without them the place would have been dead; it was mostly a golf and beach resort town.

Dushan
23rd Nov 2014, 02:04
I heard that Rock Everhard of the NZ National Gay Rights Coalition wants his car back. It went missing years ago from downtown Auckland after a Gay Pride march when someone from the Queen's 69th left the keys in the ignition. They have been looking for it everywhere for 17 years, and now they think they have found it, just resprayed puke maroon instead of its original bright pink, and they want it back or else they are going to sue.

John Hill
23rd Nov 2014, 03:25
As they fount it!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g100/jamiebae/IMAG0007.jpg

chuks
23rd Nov 2014, 05:52
More lost than fount, I fear ....

No, I just had the only other American in the village, a paid-up member of some sort of Gay Mafia, check with Rock through the Gay Grapevine and he said it was definitely some kind of Ford they have all been looking for.

Trying to find one particular Mazda MX-5 would have been almost impossible, he explained, like looking for one particular needle in a needle factory. Ownership spans the spectrum from hairy-chested macho men to lisping sissies and from girly girls to tattooed and pierced bull dykes who usually ride Harleys ... it's a popular car that almost anyone might own, the MX-5.

This, though, was like looking for a needle in a haystack, a rather large needle shaped like a dildo. (It does rather stand out, doesn't it?) It turned out to be that they must have been looking in all the wrong places: Greenwich Village, Castro Street, Key West, New Orleans, Fire Island, Provincetown ....

obgraham
23rd Nov 2014, 06:07
I wouldn't have thought it so hard to find that ch"ute". It's the one with the big load on its rear end.

brickhistory
23rd Nov 2014, 15:46
NTTAWWT...:E

MagnusP
24th Nov 2014, 08:07
Nah. Now THIS one is a proper dildomobile.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b0/ForLadiesOnly_Steppenwolf_Upfolded_Inside.jpg

mikedreamer787
24th Nov 2014, 10:43
And here's what it usually has a front-end collision with Magnus! :E

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPsjqggwYT3YieLEyBAdOLbyoEETjM1oeDXLTsZ1s tf_W75JzT

Caution...rude!

chuks
24th Nov 2014, 13:42
When I was in High School, about 50 years ago, there was a fad: stealing the little enamel badges off the bonnets of VW Beetles. The badges were shaped sort of like a shield, but also sort of like that thing painted on the front of the Beetle shown above. According to some psychologists teenage boys were strongly attracted by the shape ....

The badge showed a wolf on the battlements of a small castle, the Wolfsburg, with a river flowing past, and it referred to the town of the same name.

Wolfsburg was re-named by the British from Stadt des KdF-Wagens bei Fallerslebens, probably not realizing that "Wolf" was Hitler's nickname among his intimates. The town was a planned one, originally built to house the factory workers who made various vehicles, particularly the Beetle.

Ancient Mariner
24th Nov 2014, 13:49
In '88 there was a "fad" here stealing the circular VW badge and carrying them around your neck as "bling".
Caught one prying the badge off my brand new Jetta, whatever he carries now is not a VW badge, but probably pretty permanent, if not pretty.
Per

er340790
27th Nov 2014, 15:11
Once she left 73¢ on a $120 tab. I added a $20.

She's not Dutch, is she????? That's pretty generous by Cloggie standards. :E