Pax loading

[victor tango]

Back in the mid-late 60s I remember the pax always being brought out by coaches. Aircraft seemed to be always parked on remote stands.
When a/c were at the terminal pax still had to go down steps to the tarmac and them up the a/c stairs.

A few years later jetways by Babcock Moxey were introduced later replaced by the superior Aviolader.

Any one remember the old days and when the Jetway became the norm?

[DaveReidUK]

When a/c were at the terminal pax still had to go down steps to the tarmac and them up the a/c stairs.

Ah, you've flown Ryanair, then.

[joy ride]

Some of my earliest memories are walking out to planes, or a ride out to them to then walk the last stretch to the stairs. I think at Carrasco (Montevideo) it was entirely done on foot. At Heathrow airport in the 1960s BOAC used articulated trucks, with what was fairly obviously a horse trailer with a rounded front, and most people had to stand.

By then Dulles (Washington D.C.) had huge "Mobile Lounges" which took passengers between terminal and plane, they were still using them when I was last there about 10 years ago.

Climbing the stairs to the back door of a VC10 was always exciting as you could look right into two of the engines.

The walk and or stair climb made air travel very exciting as you could see hear and smell all the activity, and look at the various parts of an airliner, like engines and undercarriage as you walked past.

After many flights I did not fly again for a few years and then the Jetways/Avioloaders/Sky Bridges were the norm.

I understand that they are more efficient but for me they have massively reduced the fun and interest of air travel.

[Wander00]

I recall flying to Izmir and back via Istanbul in the 80s on a RAF duty visit. The Istanbul-Izmir leg was with Turkish Airlines (THY-They Hate You). There you went out on the tunnel thing, then down the steps to the tarmac, picked your hold luggage up and put it on a trolley, then board the aircraft up the steps. Theory was no one would board a plane with their luggage on it containing a bomb. I guess terrorism has moved on since then.

[Innominate]

The "mobile lounges" at Dulles are still in use for international arrivals - we were there in September - but departures seem to be boarded via the usual jetways.

Someone suggested that the mobile longes are used partly because there are relatively few international arrivals, and it's the easiest way to get passengers to the rather small immigration hall.

[seacue]

It has been years since I used KIAD. For many years, the "mobile lounges" were used to get departing and domestic passengers between the main terminal to the midfield terminal. The midfield terminal had jetways to the aircraft. I understand that an underground rail route has now been put into service to take domestic ?? pax between the main terminal to the midfield terminal.

KIAD was originally a very "slow" airport, especially since everyone on the plane had to be on the mobile lounge before it started its journey. This was speeded up when there was continuous service by the mobile lounges between the midfield terminal and the main terminal.

The midfield terminal was apparently an afterthought, built on top of the service building midfield. This allowed the continuous service from the midfield terminal to the main terminal, but with considerably more walking,

Mr Saarinen deigned a swoopy main terminal, but included a number of MAJOR boo-boos which had to be fixed - passages too narrow for baggage carts to pass each other, for example. Too few baggage carousels in the original design. Years and $$$ have corrected most of the major problems.

[Robert Cooper]

In 1957 a bunch of us were waiting in the MATS terminal at Hickam AFB for a flight down to Christmas Island. Eventually the Hastings, resplendent in RAF Transport Command lettering and roundels, came clattering round the corner and parked in front of the terminal. The door opened and gent in flight suit and leather helmet hooked a metal ladder to the bottom of the door opening. We walked out to the aircraft, threw our kit bags up through the door, and climbed up the six or seven rung ladder.
I will always remember the look on the faces of the Americans watching from the terminal. They were used to regular airline type stairs to board their C-124 and C-97s, and probably thought we were rather strange!

Bob C

[joy ride]

KIAD's main terminal is certainly a beautiful building and in the 60s I found it to be the most efficient and relaxed airport I had used. Also the huge diagonal columns were great fun, myself and my brothers and sister used to see how far up them we could run!

Last time I was there about 12 years ago I was in the Mobile lounge sitting next to Rev Jesse Jackson.

In those days Heathrow/ "London Airport" was already getting stressy, but the roof viewing terrace and walking up to planes still kept it Number one for interest.

[sandiego89]

I can confirm that the big mobile lounges at Dulles were still in use when I went through about a year ago. I had about 3 hours to fill between flights, and decided to take the newish underground train which I had never used to the main terminal. The train is much like the one in Atlanta. I then walked the international concourse to see some of the more exotic heavies that you don't get to see much up close, and then took the mobile lounge to the middle terminal for fun. They are neat to ride.

Yes Seacue, the newish train goes to the three main terminals.

While looking simple in layout, I noted Dulles is a very confusing place, with multiple levels, ramps, escalators, trains, mobile lounges etc, and I'm a native. I imagine it would be a tough place for a foreign speaking novice traveler to make a connection.

Agree the walking/being bussed out to the tarmac adds to the experince. I think my fondest was taking the no-frill Blue Bird bus out to a C-5B for my first flight on a Galaxy, and climbing a veeeeerrrry tall mobile stairway to the troop deck.

[Capot]

This is how it was done in the olden days...

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Pic_Paras2.jpg

[seacue]

KIAD was a VERY relaxed place most of each day during the 1960s - with only 89 flights per day in 1965. But those flights were peaked at morning and evening, where the original design was inadequate to handle that many pax in such a short time.

[joy ride]

A thread on "Spectators" led me to this model of an airport truck which I occasionally traveled in heading out to a VC10 or at Heathrow and which I mentioned earlier:

SCA002 | Sky Classics Airport Vehicles 1:200 | Bedford J5 Articulated Bus BOAC 'Grey' - Aviation Retail Direct (http://www.aviationretaildirect.com/models/sca002-sky-classics-airport-vehicles-1-200-bedford-j5-articulated-bus-boac-grey/)

[Wander00]

Seacue - "busy" - try La Rochelle (which normally is a bit like arriving at one's local flying club) the day Ryanair managed to get three B737-800s in at the same time - 600 odd people trying to get through a two-channel passport control, and luggage arriving in a baggage hall not a lot bigger than my sitting room - absolute CHAOS!

[wiggy]

I can confirm that the big mobile lounges at Dulles were still in use when I went through about a year ago.

....And they were still in use a month or two back for at least some international arrivals on the satellite terminals.

Usual procedure is to exit the aircraft via a normal jetty that seemingly is leading you into the terminal....:D, but then you find that you are being directed to a door which actually leads onto one of the mobile lounges..:uhoh:. That then takes you to the main terminal direct and the joys of immigration and customs....

OTOH outbound it's normally a walk/ride through the tunnel to the gates so I guess that the inbound process may be something to do with segregating inbound international pax from everybody else.

[teeteringhead]

There you went out on the tunnel thing, then down the steps to the tarmac, picked your hold luggage up and put it on a trolley, then board the aircraft up the steps. Theory was no one would board a plane with their luggage on it containing a bomb. Same principle used in Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s .......

[ian16th]

the joys of immigration and customs....Surely worth a thread all to itself?

With the collective experience on PPRuNe we must have enough stories to fill a book.

If it ever get published, I nominate the RAFBF for the proceeds.

[Wander00]

Ian16th - Borderforce or whatever they are calling themselves this week would probably sue!

[India Four Two]

so I guess that the inbound process may be something to do with segregating inbound international pax from everybody else.

There is no outbound immigration control at US airports, so international flights can leave from domestic gates.

Interestingly, passengers on flights from Canada to the US go through US Immigration at their departure airports (pre-clearance), so that the flight can arrive at a domestic gate, with no further formalities.

Confusingly, flights from the US to Canada are not "international flights" and they leave from domestic terminals.

[evansb]

U.S. Customs Pre-Clearance is available at Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto (CYYZ), Vancouver, and Winnipeg.

A couple of examples of non pre-clearance airport flights:

Porter passengers departing Toronto Island to Boston require customs clearance upon arrival at Boston.

WestJet passengers departing Regina to Denver require customs clearance upon arrival at Denver.


Forgotten by many, Edmonton International Airport also operated PTVs (mobile lounges) for well over a decade.

[ExSp33db1rd]

.......the MATS terminal at Hickam AFB for a flight down to Christmas Island.I've recently mentioned, on the BOAC routes to AUS thread, my experiences in Honolulu in 1961, and the arrival of the RAF Hastings twice a week viz - the Hickam kindergarten let the kids out of school early on the relevant days - to go see a Limey aircraft with a tail wheel!

Remember once being at a party in London and one of the girls received a phone call, asking why she wasn't at the airport as the crew Hostess for the evening BOAC Stratocruiser Monarch service to New York. She threw on her uniform and I drove her to Heathrow. In those days the Stratocruiser departed from the apron on the North side of the airport and crew just walked across to it, so I just drove my car to the rear steps of the aircraft, and she joined the passengers who were boarding from their bus.

Try that today !

[con-pilot]

Try that today !

One could do that at some airports in the US in the mid-70s. I once had to take a replacement windshield for a Jet Commander from OKC to MIA on the airlines and after the windshield was replaced, fly the aircraft back to OKC.

We drove up the where the airliner was parked at the terminal, handed the windshield to the loaders, they put in the baggage compartment and I went up the outside stairs of the jetway, got my ticket and got on the aircraft.

Oh, when I got to MIA, the windshield, that I saw get loaded, was not on the aircraft. Go figure.

[victor tango]

exp33
Lucky you had a nice car for the job, cant see it working too well in my, at the time, bubble car:ok:

[thunderclap]

Back in July 1955, (I was young then) we travelled by Hunting Clan Viking as follows:
London-Nice-Malta (Nightstop)
Malta-Mersamatruh-Wadi Haifa-Khartoum (Nightstop)
Khartoum-Juba-Nairobi(Wilson Field)
Cost £98 Four Flight crew and one Hostess for 27 Pax.
Everyone stayed and ate together at the hotel etc.
We just used to walk out to the aircraft. Only difficult place was Juba where we were given a hard time with passports etc.
By 1958, we left Nairobi (Embakasi) for the UK in a Viscount (Big windows).I remember they weighed each passenger. Take off was interesting.
By 1961, it was off to Beirut in a brand new MEA Comet 4c from Heathrow (North Side) with just two pax. Walked out to the aircraft again. Air Liban Caravelle from Beirut to Paris was a nice cheaper experience. While in Kenya, I used to fly in an EAA DC3 from Mombasa to a grass airfield in Tanganyika (Tanzania) called Mombo, three times a year. No terminal, just a hut. School bus used to pick us up at the aircraft. Once, while waiting for the return trip to Mombasa, the DC3 came in, touched down and took off again and vanished into the grey blue yonder. Runway was waterlogged!
Result of all this was a career in aviation for a mere 44 years. Flying maybe a lot safer but it is no longer a good fun experience.

[Flybiker7000]

For the (north)European vacational charterflights wich primarely is heading for the countries surrounding the Mediterranian, 'walk-in/outs' is still the norm at the destinations!
Even for many of the outbound airports of this charterflights, wich often is smaller local airports, is the trick with transportation to the distant plane often the way to do it!
As primarely enjoying holidays in Greece, I totally agree with joy ride (in reply #3) about the smell/looking -experience: Hitting the wall of heat (wich is the aim for the trip) in the door and getting the odeours of tarmac, jet-exhaust and thyme direct into ones nostrils is to me a tell-tale sign of vacation-start ;-)

[Bengo]

Evansb said "U.S. Customs Pre-Clearance is available at Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto (CYYZ), Vancouver, and Winnipeg. "


It's also available at Dublin. The facility is on the ground floor of the pier in Terminal 2.

N

[Planemike]

Back in July 1955, (I was young then) we travelled by Hunting Clan Viking as follows:
London-Nice-Malta (Nightstop)
Malta-Mersamatruh-Wadi Haifa-Khartoum (Nightstop)
Khartoum-Juba-Nairobi(Wilson Field)
Cost £98 Four Flight crew and one Hostess for 27 Pax.

thunderclap....

I flew the same route with Airwork, also in a Viking, in November 1952, my first flight.
Arrival airport in Nairobi would have been Eastleigh (not Nairobi West, known later as Wilson).

Planemike

[pax britanica]

US Customs and Immigration pre clearance is excellent idea-often wondered why they do not do it at LHR which must have more US bound pax than any city.

Was great thing for me when I lived in Bermuda and travelling to the states all the time, and an even greater thing when I turned up for the early JFK departure and found at the desk that I had left my passport at home. No problem , I had played golf with the US customs supervisor two weeks earlier and he just wrote out a letter saying this this passenger has mislaid his passport but I know him personally and have granted him entry-please let him back out. Worked a treat -mind you it was pre 9-11
PB

[Bengo]

PB

I think it's probably to do with the huge space, limitations on other use of gates for pre-cleared flights, special systems (among other things all pre-cleared US-bound bags need to be photographed) and maybe above all the transfer to US sovereignty of the space used for pre-clearance.

There is also a cost to the airlines- as they are effectively operating US internal flights they are not allowed to sell Duty-Free on board.

N

[thunderclap]

Planemike...

Yes, you are correct, it was Eastleigh.
Were your parents emigrating as mine were? Did you go to school in East Africa?
I have some photos of the 1955 Viking trip.

TC