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rgbrock1
17th Nov 2014, 16:41
Climatologist: 30-Year Cold Spell Strikes Earth (http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/dark-winter-cold-global-cooling/2014/11/16/id/607672/)

Dushan
17th Nov 2014, 16:44
And just in case you haven't seen this, notice the cold goes as far down as Pensacola.

http://vortex.accuweather.com/adc2004/pub/includes/columns/newsstory/2014/650x366_11160949_hd22.jpg

charliegolf
17th Nov 2014, 16:47
I'm going to see Mickey in July. Will it be nice and cool?

CG

Just a spotter
17th Nov 2014, 16:51
Isn't that just Kim Kardashian's arse again, just imposed over a map of North America? It's everywhere I tells ya!

:}

JAS

rgbrock1
17th Nov 2014, 16:52
Thanks for the info Dushan. You're just a swell guy. Perhaps I should go to Brazil instead!!!!!

Dushan
17th Nov 2014, 17:01
Yes, you should have continued, when you had a chance. Stopping at Granada wasn't a wise choice.

Dushan
17th Nov 2014, 17:03
Isn't that just Kim Kardashian's arse again, just imposed over a map of North America? It's everywhere I tells ya!

:}

JAS


Yes, only photoshopped to make it smaller and fit over the map of US.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
17th Nov 2014, 17:09
Original papers here
RC Theory (http://www.spaceandscience.net/id64.html)

I'll give them a browse tonight.

p.s. that's Dark Winter papers. KK's ass pictures are...well, I'm sure you probably know better than I do.

G-CPTN
17th Nov 2014, 17:16
So, a dip in Global Warming? :ugh:

rgbrock1
17th Nov 2014, 17:38
G-CPTN:

Fox3 and I were just discussing global temperatures and the correlation with solar activity last week. Interesting that this "Dark Winter" now appears.

Capetonian
17th Nov 2014, 17:49
Isn't that just Kim Kardashian's arse again, just imposed over a map of North America? It's everywhere I tells ya!

Unfortunately I saw some photos of Kim Trailertrashian's arse the other day. What a revolting sight. I imagine she would need four postal codes, one for her head, one for each arse cheek, and one for the rest of her.

As an aside, it does amaze me that someone who might possibly, just perhaps, have the potential to be slightly attractive to someone of the opposite sex (or indeed, the same sex) would mutilate their body to the extent that she has to end up looking like something from a freak show.

"Does my arse look big in this, dear?"
"No."
"You bastard, I hate you .........."

rgbrock1
17th Nov 2014, 17:54
Yes, Henry, just one guy. Highly regarded by his peers as well.

MG23
17th Nov 2014, 18:06
Fortunately, the government has just announced that we can prevent the new Ice Age by building more windmills, burning less fossil fuels, and paying higher taxes.

Krystal n chips
17th Nov 2014, 18:08
An interesting article.....however, just one teensy little problem if you don't mind me saying so....and you probably will.....the world has more countries and Continents than, erm, N.America.

Fear not though, over here we have the Daily Express with it's own " 365 Days of Arctic Hell!....Polar Blast set to cause misery for millions !.....UK to grind to halt !....millions set to die ! ".....etc, etc, working on the principle they might just get it right.....one day.

con-pilot
17th Nov 2014, 18:17
And just in case you haven't seen this, notice the cold goes as far down as Pensacola.


Trust me Dusan, I noticed that yesterday, three inches of snow and the temperature is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

40

degrees below normal, it was 14F last night.

There were so many traffic accidents this morning, they stopped reporting them unless a major roadway was blocked.

By Saturday we will be back near normal temperature, but it will still be 10 degrees below normal for this time of year. :{

Fox3WheresMyBanana
17th Nov 2014, 18:28
...and paying higher taxes.

Funny how that always crops up, kinda snuck in at the end....

Gordy
17th Nov 2014, 18:48
charliegolf
I'm going to see Mickey in July. Will it be nice and cool?

West coast Mickey or East coast Mickey? I suspect it will be warm at both locations.

OFSO
17th Nov 2014, 19:35
Mistake not this remark for the jocular....as most married men (and all the single ones) will be aware, members of the fair sex have colder buttocks than men. The consequences of a nice snuggle-up when John L Casey's predictions come true don't bear thinking about.

rgbrock1
17th Nov 2014, 19:55
OFSO wrote:

members of the fair sex have colder buttocks than men.

Tell me about it. :E:}

Capetonian
17th Nov 2014, 19:57
members of the fair sex have colder buttocks than men. Not to mention the sub-zero hands and feet.

SpringHeeledJack
17th Nov 2014, 20:27
Females have more subcutaneous fat than males, have a faster metabolism with a quicker heart beat and breathing rhythm, are hairier than monkeys (tis true that!) and yet…..they

have colder buttocks than men

and

sub-zero hands and feet

Life is full of mysteries :p



SHJ

Dushan
17th Nov 2014, 20:46
Females … , are hairier than monkeys (tis true that!)


Maybe in Germany, but not from I've seen on the internet, lately...

Hydromet
17th Nov 2014, 20:49
I always seem to find the femal's cold shoulder.:{

Dushan
17th Nov 2014, 21:08
RGB, does this cover you?

http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/hires_snow_acc_neng_20.png

er340790
17th Nov 2014, 22:14
Well, I was up at the lake cottage last weekend, about 50-Kms NW of Lake Superior and at 1,500'. The overnight temps were already well below -20C. That's still some 30+C 'warmer' than last years lows.

Although the CBC disagrees, the Farmer's Almanac comes down on the Dark Winter side. Having experienced the worst of last year's 7-month Winter first-hand, I decided to hedge my bets and bought a bolt-hole down in the FL central lakes area. +28C there right now.

My own observations too since 2004, fall firmly into the Dark Winter camp - encapsulated in a 2011 email to the UK: 'I tell you, there is a :mad: Ice-Age coming!'


The eco-mentalists might call it 'localized cooling'. I call "BS" on them!!!

BenThere
17th Nov 2014, 22:26
Hope you're making a damn good living NW of Lake Superior. I came to think that people who live in the North interior of North America just didn't know any better or had no other options. Yet I've been living in Michigan for over ten years now, 30 years after I escaped it as a youth.

I long for the temperate climes, where I can stumble out on the back porch in the morning, look out over lush lands and maybe a creek or river, sip at a strong cup of coffee, then go in and get dressed, with nary a chill.

West Coast
17th Nov 2014, 23:56
How about the ocean instead? 24C/75F in SAN today. Always looking to bring conservatives to the area.

con-pilot
18th Nov 2014, 00:43
How about the ocean instead? 24C/75F in SAN today. Always looking to bring conservatives to the area.

Naw, your bit of the US is going to fall off into the ocean, so I've been told.

So I'll stay here where we have F-6 tornadoes, blizzards, scorching heat and earthquakes.





Hmm, perhaps I need to rethink that falling off bit. :uhoh:

oldpax
18th Nov 2014, 01:20
I think at night its dropped from 30 degs (c)to 28,but I hardly notice it here in Thailand!!

mikedreamer787
18th Nov 2014, 01:56
Got down to 23C up in the north part
of the country Mr oldpax. Brrrrr!!! :bored:

Fox3WheresMyBanana
18th Nov 2014, 02:02
Well, I plowed through the RC stuff, which is basically cycle spotting but does not give any specific indicators for the future.
I found something more useful here, with much more high-powered and relevantly qualified authors.
Journal of Cosmology (http://journalofcosmology.com/ClimateChange104.html)

It gives an indication of what to look for. Specifically, two consecutive solar cycles longer than the standard 11 years seems to be a strong indicator of an approaching climate cool period. In simple thermodynamic terms, an increased period for a heating cycle is normally an indicator of reduced energy input, so there is a basic physical reason why an extended period would indicate low future solar output. The second indicator is the number of sunspots at solar maximum, which is always low during a cool period.

Here is the latest (3 days ago) NASA solar cycle info in graphical form.
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/images/ssn_predict_l.gif

The essence is that the last solar cycle (numbered 23) lasted over 13 years, and the current one has a very low sunspot maximum, and may well extend beyond 11 years also. There is also the unusual feature of a double peak maximum with the second peak higher than the first.
Whether the current solar cycle extends beyond 11 years is difficult to predict right now. It will likely be clearer in a couple of years.
Note that the shorter lived Dalton minimum (1795-1825) was preceded by only one extended solar cycle.

Who's for a Cold One? ;)
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/a0/9c/7f/a09c7fdc8f42f5deb2597ade88157335.jpg

n.b. NASA declared the latest solar cycle as beginning in 2008, and this is quoted in wikipedia, but NASA's latest graphic shows the minimum occured in 2009, which is what the quoted paper uses.

fltlt
18th Nov 2014, 04:03
I seem to be attracting these, if anybody wishes to tweet these folks. I don't agree with their position whatsoever.
But I have noticed in the last week or so quite a number of articles and emails with "climate change" as their main theme.


Facebook Sharing Image
Climate Change Tweetathon
#BackClimateAction
25.11.14
Live Twitter relay
9am GMT, Tuesday 25 November
Tweet: #BackClimateAction Follow: @DECCgovUK

Twitter Logo
On Tuesday 25 November, DECC and partners from a range of businesses and organisations, including the UN, Microsoft and The Wildlife Trusts, will be running a day long Climate Change Tweetathon* and we would love you to get involved.

The planet’s changing climate is starting to impact us all, but the many ways it will affect each of our lives is not always obvious, so for a whole day we'll be talking about climate change and how it impacts everything from your morning cup of coffee to the cities and homes we live in.

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Following @DECCgovUK and retweeting or tweeting as we countdown to the day
Sharing interesting content that demonstrates climate change action
Using the hashtag #BackClimateAction
Showcasing what your organisation is doing to tackle climate change
Find out more here.

Don't forget to put the date in your diary! We'll be kicking off at 9am running through until 7pm, so you can get involved at any point during the day.

*The tweetathon is a twitter ‘relay’, where a group of different people / organisations will talk about one specific climate related theme before handing over to the next subject.

Contact us [email protected]
Department of Energy and Climate Change

Solid Rust Twotter
18th Nov 2014, 04:58
I suspect that SRT may be along shortly to ask under what circumstances this comparison was demonstrated


Eh? One likes the cold weather, even more so when accompanied by rain and thunderstorms. Got no problem with cold female buttocks either, as long as they're as a result of the ntombezaan taking her turn to drift off to the kitchen and return bearing hot choc, tea and cheese toasties for a lazy weekend in bed, reading and watching movies.

Effluent Man
18th Nov 2014, 06:43
The UK has had an unusually warm year.With the exception of August which was slightly cooler than the long term average every other month has been well above,often between +2 and +2.5C.

I know it doesn't sound huge but the effects are quite marked.For example night frosts have been virtually eliminayed.The cause seems to be the transatlantic air stream that has been running along a somewhat different track.After leaving The States there has been a "V" shaped dip with the airstream turning South ,picking up warm,moist air and then moving up across the UK.

This has brought raised temperatures and far higher levels of rainfall.The former are of a huge benefit and have resulted in massively reduced heating costs,the latter have brought chaos to perhaps half a million people in the South West.

Whilst that is tough on them it has to be seen in the same context as a the change in the economy that has brought misery to many whose jobs and businesses have been affected by the closure of factories and mines throughout the UK and has affected possibly ten times as many.
.

david1300
18th Nov 2014, 06:57
Mistake not this remark for the jocular....as most married men (and all the single ones) will be aware, members of the fair sex have colder buttocks than men. The consequences of a nice snuggle-up when John L Casey's predictions come true don't bear thinking about.
Personally, I have no idea how warm or cold mens' buttocks are, nor do I intend to find out :\:sad: I thank you, nevertheless, for the infomation :p

unstable load
18th Nov 2014, 07:33
SRT,
Eh? One likes the cold weather, even more so when accompanied by rain and thunderstorms.
So, the question begs asking.... why aren't you living in the Cape, old chap?:E We need a Gilroy's Extension 1, please....

OFSO
18th Nov 2014, 11:59
I have no idea how warm or cold mens' buttocks are

Me neither (except my own) but reading a few posts here it appears people whom one would not have expected to be in possession of such knowledge, are.

For example we have: Tell me about it.

And: Not to mention the sub-zero hands and feet.

fhegner
18th Nov 2014, 12:21
Climate Change: 2014 Could Be the Hottest Year on Record (http://time.com/3526756/2014-hottest-year-on-record-climate-change-global-warming-noaa/)
you deniers can keep on shouting to hell freezes over, pun intended

MagnusP
18th Nov 2014, 12:40
I think you'll find that the soubriquet is best applied to those who deny that the climate has always changed, and claim that it is only anthropogenic interference that causes it.

rgbrock1
18th Nov 2014, 12:44
Dushan wrote:

RGB, does this cover you?

No, it does not. Nice try. But try again, ya missed! :E:}

rgbrock1
18th Nov 2014, 12:51
OFSO wrote:

For example we have: Tell me about it.

My dear OFSO. That statement was pertaining to the buttocks temperature of the Mrs. (Chronically cold). And certainly not of anyone of the male gender as I would have no idea, whatsoever, what a male's ass temperature would be.

Thank you.

The Management.

Solid Rust Twotter
18th Nov 2014, 13:12
...why aren't you living in the Cape, old chap?


Too many blerrie Mountain Goats.:}

Fox3WheresMyBanana
18th Nov 2014, 13:13
RGB - You don't know male ass temperature because...you cannot find your own ass with both hands?? ;)

I thought that was just this American. Here's a pic of him trying.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/30/article-2317402-198FCD12000005DC-851_634x400.jpg

pigboat
18th Nov 2014, 13:14
Don't you just love experts who use weasel words like 'could' and 'pretty likely?'

Here's a pic of him trying.
Well, he's using both hands. All he's missing is the funnel and the flashlight.

fltlt
18th Nov 2014, 13:35
Up here in the High Desert of SoCal they are opening the homeless shelters 6 weeks earlier than usual because it's in the mid to upper 20's.

rgbrock1
18th Nov 2014, 13:38
Fox3 wrote:

RGB - You don't know male ass temperature because...you cannot find your own ass with both hands??

My hands, where my ass is concerned, are used for only one purpose. Usually after a sufficient bowel movement. At all other times my hands are not at all familiar with my own ass. (I don't pick my ass but I do, on occasion, scratch it.) :E:}

"He" couldn't find his ass with both hands and a set of instructions.

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 13:48
"He", I think is on the way of finding his ass as his bands are on his head, which is usually up his ass.

rgbrock1
18th Nov 2014, 14:22
Dushan. Perhaps I'm mistaken but I always thought "his" ass and head were one and the same? :E:}

Solid Rust Twotter
18th Nov 2014, 14:26
...I always thought "his" ass and head were one and the same...


'Always' Mr Rock...?:E

rgbrock1
18th Nov 2014, 14:28
SRT:

Always. Where O'Bummer is concerned anyway. :}

Solid Rust Twotter
18th Nov 2014, 14:46
I'll just leave this one to your fellow US voters, shall I...?:E




Too easy!:}

MagnusP
18th Nov 2014, 15:09
Someone wise posted recently on another thread that the live ones were usually OK.

OFSO
18th Nov 2014, 16:34
Grammar query: Should it be "rapidly cooling" or "cooling rapidly" ?


The planet I mean, not your good lady's bottom.

MG23
18th Nov 2014, 18:27
I think you'll find that the soubriquet is best applied to those who deny that the climate has always changed, and claim that it is only anthropogenic interference that causes it.

Of course the climate is always changing: the alarmists 'adjust' the temperature record more every year to ensure the current year is always 'the hottest year EVAH!' even when those who actually went outside during the year know it wasn't. The Earth is apparently continuing to warm in places where no humans live, and hardly anywhere that they do.

This is why no-one takes them seriously any more.

OFSO
18th Nov 2014, 21:18
Just seen the weather over the other side - interweb announced three foot of wind-driven snow in NY state.

Brrrrrr.

Where I am it's 5ºc/40ºf at night and 22ºc/70ºf by midday.

Getting wore-out pulling on and taking off the pullovers....

Dushan
18th Nov 2014, 23:27
Buffalo NY expecting a couple of meters of winter rain.

RGB, you're next.

MagnusP
19th Nov 2014, 10:33
A cold winter is forecast for Salmond and Sturgeon's Utopian People's Republic of Jockistan (SASUPROJ), but I will bask in it knowing I retire in the spring and will never, in future winters, have to stand in the snow at 7am waiting for the bus to work. Bring it on! :p

radeng
19th Nov 2014, 11:32
I have been a firm believer that the major cause of climate change will be solar activity. The world has been both a lot warmer in the past and a lot colder - during the Maunder Minimum (1640 - 1740) when there were no recorded sunspots for most of it, the River Thames in London froze to a thickness of 15 feet and they held fairs upon it. In the early 1500s, oranges could be grown outdoors in the south of England while in the 1200s, grapes were grown in the south of Sweden.

I would argue the biggest danger is not CO2 emissions but overpopulation. Cure that and you will cure the CO2 emissions as well.....because demand for things that cause CO2 emissions will fall.

Unfortunately, religions opposing birth control are in reality not only strictly antisocial but are pushing the human race towards wars, famines and eventually, extinction.....

ShyTorque
19th Nov 2014, 11:59
Around these parts, now temperate (although we had a frost this morning), there is plenty of evidence of glacial activity. Below that is evidence of a tropical sea. What the hell were those dinosaurs and cavemen up to?

Fox3WheresMyBanana
19th Nov 2014, 12:21
I would argue the biggest danger is not CO2 emissions but overpopulation.

Interesting when you point out to the huggy-fluffies that their "model sustainable communities", if adopted worldwide, would mean 85% of the World's population dying of starvation. And that's without climate change, either way.

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 13:13
OFSO wrote:

Just seen the weather over the other side - interweb announced three foot of wind-driven snow in NY state.

You must have seen this awhile ago because those accumulations of snow have been updated to 6 feet. It's so bad in the Buffalo area of NY right now that the NY National Guard has been deployed to assist.

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 13:17
My son, currently undergoing "Advanced Training" in the US Navy is currently stationed at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Fl. The western most part of the Florida panhandle, and on the Gulf coast. He sent me a text last night informing me of the 26F temperature, and consequent hard freeze, they were having. (Which is not quite as "chilly" as the 15F temperature we had last night.)

OFSO
19th Nov 2014, 13:21
...and too hot here to eat lunch out of doors today. Again. Forecast is for increasing mid-day temperatures until Friday.

This is NOT usual for NE. Spain, mid-November.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
19th Nov 2014, 13:56
Patio doors v snowstorm
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10205296552321245&id=118071565920

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 14:02
Fox3:

I saw this earlier today. Are y'all happy now? Hmmm? Must be some really big snow-blowing machines pointed over the Lakes, eh Fox3? Eh Dushan?
Eh, O' Canada? :}:E

PS: With the bone-chilling temp. last night of 15F(-9.4C) I want to find Al Gore so I can kick him right in his big fat ass.

OFSO
19th Nov 2014, 14:07
In March 2010 we had about a metre of snow fall in four hours. The double doors to our terrace were not at risk as we have a wide overhanging roof which kept the snow off: however when the snow eventually melted about four days later (so much for sunny Spain) the snow nearest the doors melted first but the meltwater was unable to run off and would have flooded the house had I not cut channels through the rest of the snow to permit the water to go in peace.

My point: dealing with weather it's important to think what the worst is that could happen and plan for that - and then some.

Hempy
19th Nov 2014, 14:47
I wonder what the climate was like when volcanoes were popping up with monotonous regularity for a couple of hundred million years spewing all that nasty stuff everywhere..

Oh that's right, it was hot.

Before a few Ice Ages.

ORAC
19th Nov 2014, 15:50
Is global warming preventing an Ice Age? (http://www.world-science.net/othernews/081217_warming.htm)

MG23
19th Nov 2014, 17:48
I would argue the biggest danger is not CO2 emissions but overpopulation.

No, the largest danger is underpopulation, as most Western nations would have declining populations if not for immigration and certain imported religions.

Japan is already there, since they don't want immigration and imported religion. Unless they can dramatically increase lifespan, the country will be gone by the end of the century.

con-pilot
19th Nov 2014, 18:23
I do have a question for our proponents of the AGW theory.

We just went through a week where our average daily temperatures were 40f below normal for this period of time, yes 40 degrees Fahrenheit below normal. Set all kinds of record lows.

Has there been anywhere in the world where the average temperatures have been 40f degree above normal that lasted a week, for any period?


Just curious.

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 18:40
con:

Those well below average temps. you had? They're here now! Last night it was 15F. Today's high is below freezing.
I talked to my son last night at around 20:00 and it was already 29F. In Pensacola, Florida! (He was not amused. "Dad, I thought I got away from those shit, cold-assed, temperatures.")

Dushan
19th Nov 2014, 20:23
(He was not amused. "Dad, I thought I got away from those shit, cold-assed, temperatures.")

I warned you. There is no escaping.

rgbrock1
19th Nov 2014, 20:26
Dushan wrote:

I warned you. There is no escaping.

How dastardly. :}:E How very Snidley Whiplash of you. :E:=

OFSO
19th Nov 2014, 20:32
where the average temperatures have been 40f degree above normal that lasted a week, for any period

No, but my part of the world had the warmest October ever. Or for 100 years. Or something.

MG23
19th Nov 2014, 20:46
No, but my part of the world had the warmest October ever. Or for 100 years. Or something.

Remember: if it's a warm record, that's climate. If it's a cold record, that's just weather. And if it's not a record, they'll 'adjust' the temperatures until it is.

radeng
19th Nov 2014, 23:28
MG23

If the world population continues to increase as you say is necessary, where is the food coming from to feed them all? And the energy needed for their housing and daily life? Indeed, where is the housing itself coming from?

Lonewolf_50
20th Nov 2014, 14:24
The homeless people who tend to migrate towards southern Texas have well demonstrated that one does not need housing to remain alive. What is needed is food, water, and a modicum of clothing.

As to food: quite a bit of food goes to waste, at least in our country. Some pretty interesting stats on how much fresh produce ends up in the bin after a certain number of days on the shelf.
(I had always thought that the stuff that looks weird but isn't sold ought to be made into things like ketchup and various other sauces. There may be a limit of how that conversion is done in terms of volume, and labors/materiel costs).
What really gets my goat is the amount of food tossed out at restaurants. Sadly, with health codes being what they are, there isn't a practical way to divert that left over/uneaten prepared food to folks in need. It's a trade off, in terms of health risk, litigation, and getting food to point X. As it usually works out, the soup kitchens etc get what they need via other means.

There was an effort in this area a few years ago to work with local food wholesale and retail vendors to make the "overstock" more readily available to soup kitchens and shelters that help the homeless.

The effort has been modestly successful, but since the flow rate of foods varies week to week, it isn't a stable source of food for the various charitable food kitchens to rely on.

As to the population problem: it begins with bringing the benefits of civilization (sanitation and modern medicine) to cultures that have not figured out that breeding isn't the only way to ensure the continuation of the family/clan/tribe/etc.

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 14:43
LW50:

to cultures that have not figured out that breeding isn't the only way to ensure the continuation of the family/clan/tribe/etc.

No, but you have to admit that breeding/procreating is the most fun method of ensuring the continuation of the species. :}

mikedreamer787
20th Nov 2014, 14:45
Mr radeng...I suggest that certain
offshoots of the human specie be
sent off underground to fend for
themselves and become Morlocks
or something.

That'd immediately and efficiently
solve the problem.

...May I suggest we start with the
French?

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 14:46
Speaking of the French. What ever became of our resident Frenchman, I've forgotten his name/handle, who flew/flies for some airline in China? Is he still around?

Dushan
20th Nov 2014, 14:58
I think Mr. KAG is touring Europe in a caravan (trailer) and has sporadic Internet access.

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 15:00
Ahhh. Yes, KAG. That's whom I was referring to. Touring Europe in a caravan? What, the carnival is coming to town? :}:E
Or does that make him French trailer trash?

Dushan
20th Nov 2014, 15:04
It all depends if it is a double wide or not.

Cpt_Pugwash
20th Nov 2014, 19:10
rgb1

The carnival has been and gone, at least down here in Ciderspace.

Here's our clubs entry for this year.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UEZhKf_EMxQ?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Damn, can never get that to work. Perhaps this will

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEZhKf_EMxQ&feature=player_embedded

MG23
20th Nov 2014, 19:51
If the world population continues to increase as you say is necessary, where is the food coming from to feed them all? And the energy needed for their housing and daily life? Indeed, where is the housing itself coming from?

A Malthusian, I see. You've been wrong for centuries, and will be wrong for centuries to come... you see, the more relatively rational and logical humans there are on this planet, the better we become at solving problems.

If population continues to decrease, as you apparently desire, where are the people going to come from?

A 90% replacement rate leads to more than a 50% drop in population over 200 years. A 75% replacement rate leads to a 90% drop in population over 200 years. A declining population is not sustainable, at all.

Lonewolf_50
20th Nov 2014, 20:30
Your all or nothing premise is flawed, MG.

rgbrock1
20th Nov 2014, 20:35
If population continues to decrease, as you apparently desire, where are the people going to come from?

Storks. Silly question that. :}

Mac the Knife
20th Nov 2014, 20:36
"A declining population is not sustainable, at all."

Neither is an indefinitely increasing population on a small planet with limited resources.

Particularly when the decline is in developed countries which have provided the world with most of it's scientific, philosophical and technological advances and the increase from underdeveloped countries which have contributed very little apart from ethnological cuteness.

Mac

:cool:

con-pilot
20th Nov 2014, 20:38
If population continues to decrease, as you apparently desire, where are the people going to come from?


The population of Earth has decreased in history a few times, the Black Death scourge of the 1300s is the perfect example and the population recovered robustly.

rh200
20th Nov 2014, 21:54
A population will continue to increase (some times exponentially) until balanced by outside forces. Basic rule of nature. Particular society have developed enough that their cultures counter acts that rule to an extent, other haven't.

That means other cultures will have an expanding population indefinatly if given the resources or they have some cultural change.

MG23
20th Nov 2014, 21:57
The population of Earth has decreased in history a few times, the Black Death scourge of the 1300s is the perfect example and the population recovered robustly.

And what was the birth rate at that time (hint: families had tons of kids because most of them died)?

MG23
20th Nov 2014, 22:01
Neither is an indefinitely increasing population on a small planet with limited resources.

Then it's lucky that we're not stuck on 'a small planet with limited resources'. There are vast amounts of resources starting only a couple of hundred thousand miles above our heads.

If you have any significant and sustained level of population decline, you die out within a few centuries, unless you radically increase lifespans to compensate. And, no, convincing people whose parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents decided not to have enough kids to replace them that they should suddenly start breeding isn't likely to work, either.

reynoldsno1
20th Nov 2014, 22:12
where is the food coming from to feed them all?
Soylent Green :E

Mac the Knife
21st Nov 2014, 04:07
"There are vast amounts of resources starting only a couple of hundred thousand miles above our heads."

Yeah. And of what may I ask? (apart from sunlight and asteroids)

Dream on.

Mac

:yuk:

"Particularly when the decline is in developed countries which have provided the world with most of it's scientific, philosophical and technological advances and the increase from underdeveloped countries which have contributed very little apart from ethnological cuteness."

No comment on that bit I note....

probes
21st Nov 2014, 11:38
A population will continue to increase (some times exponentially) until balanced by outside forces.

there are some quite unexpected balancing forces, it appears. Unfortunately they mostly affect males (as they are gifted with more force by Nature and consequently are able to hurt themselves more... although I knew a woman who died after shovelling snow, too).

"A study looking at data from 1990 to 2006 by researchers at the US Nationwide Children's Hospital recorded 1,647 fatalities from cardiac-related injuries associated with shovelling snow. In Canada, these deaths make the news every winter.

Snow shovelling is particularly strenuous because it uses arm work, which is more taxing than leg work. Straining to move wet and heavy snow is particularly likely to cause a surge in heart rate and blood pressure, Franklin says.

Many people hold their breath during the hard work, which also puts a strain on the body. In addition, the prime time for snow clearance is between 6am and 10am which is when circadian fluctuations make us more vulnerable to heart attacks.

Franklin considers snow shovelling to be so dangerous that he advises anyone over the age of 55 not to do it.
"People at greatest risk are those who are habitually sedentary with known or suspected coronary disease, who go out once a year to clear snow," he says, adding that smoking and being overweight drastically increase the risk. If you must do it, push rather than lift the snow, dress in layers, take regular breaks indoors and don't eat or smoke before shovelling, he advises.

Using a snow blower is a better option, but there have also been heart attacks recorded in men using blowers, including one fatality in Buffalo on Wednesday. "People don't have any idea how taxing it is on the heart," Franklin says."
BBC News - Why do so many people die shovelling snow? (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-30119410)

OFSO
21st Nov 2014, 13:01
There are vast amounts of resources starting only a couple of hundred (a hundred not a thousand) miles above our heads.

There is enough energy there which when collected (easy) and transmitted (needs development) to the surface of our planet (centralised receiving station MUST be in a deserted area) and converted into a readily transportable fuel (liquid gas) to render every other source of energy redundant.

Believe me, I did a study on it years ago. It is doeable with current technology. The investment is not huge.

But do you think that there is any interest in replacing oil, nuclear, wind (don't make me laugh) etc. under the present political regimes ?

BOAC
21st Nov 2014, 14:30
As OFSO pointed out earlier, we need to step up global warming as a matter of urgency. Anyone got Al G's number?