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Effluent Man
15th Nov 2014, 08:01
Falling inflation rates comprise several factors,some good,some bad.Falls in the price of oil and food fall into the first category,falls in wage rates and higher price items the second.

When a new car dealer told me he was making as little as 1.5% on a sale I started to wonder.It is generally assumed that competitiveness is a good thing,I get the feeling though that it can go too far and start to harm the economy.

I have a holiday let house in the grounds of my main residence.Due to the fact that it is a very popular area it commands 650 a week in high season. Out of season however lets are patchy at best.So when I had an enquiry for the next five weeks I reduced the asking price from 400 to 250 a week.

The enquiry was for five men on a work contract,so it works out at 36 a week each.That includes everything,electricity,bedding,wi-fi,tv etc.At this time of year the heating/electricity can easily come to 50 pw.Well I got undercut,presumably by someone who thought it better to have something as opposed to nothing.

And this is the attitude that is spreading throughout the economy.It is the reason profitability is falling.It's a two edged sword though.The economy is driven by the 80% between the richest 10% and the poorest.Neither of those groups spend much,for entirely different,indeed opposite,reasons.So sales are often "bought" at the expense of profit.

Where the danger lies here is if those consumers get wind of the fact that the new car they don't buy for ten grand this year will as a consequence be 9.500 next year they wont buy it.Japan fell victim to this deflationary spiral and has never recovered.Low wages exacerbate the effect and set up a vicious circle.I just have a feeling that it's coming.

mikedreamer787
15th Nov 2014, 08:08
When the Unwashed start to think
like the rich all hell breaks loose -
it means there's no one left to pay
through the nose and "support the
economy".

highflyer40
15th Nov 2014, 08:17
the reason your place make 650 in the high season is because demand outstrips supply. in the off season you are lucky to get anything. you say it costs 50 and you were charging 250 (1000 p/m) no wonder you got undercut, you should have taken 100 p/w and be glad you got it.

Effluent Man
15th Nov 2014, 08:35
That shows a lack of knowledge of the economics.A friend used to run a car sales site and he "guested" cars from other dealers for a flat rate 200 commission per sale.He thought it was ok but one day I called in and went through his figures.When you added it all up he was spending three grand a month on overheads without his wages.I asked how many cars he sold a month "About a dozen".

Simple maths 3000 divided by 12 = 250 per car.So every one he sold for someone else cost him 50.It's the same principle with my house.The electricity maybe 50 but there is maintenance,washing,cleaning,wear and tear on furnishing,carpets,bedding.If I can't get 250 I will leave it empty because tying it up for five weeks loses me any short notice bookings.I just got a late booking for tonight and tomorrow for 150 so I am already ahead of taking 100.

Capetonian
15th Nov 2014, 08:41
The rental question is related to supply and demand and not directly connected to the very worrying phenomenon of deflation.

Deflation may well be round the corner and will cause stagnation in the economy, that said, I don't think the UK is likely to suffer it as badly as some of the artificially controlled Eurozone economies.

Effluent Man
15th Nov 2014, 08:56
The problem with the UK is the increasing number of "Self-Employed".The trouble is that they are not.A better description would be "Self Unemployed" in many cases.A mobile car valeter I know charges the trade 55 for a full valet. This guy is good,in fact he is the best I have seen.But there are a lot of Eastern European outfits around here operating from redundant filling station sites.

Their workers are obviously living in squalor and paid below the minimum wage. The one I know best is run by a Hungarian,in fact I put him onto the site when he bought a Range Rover off me (Cash money of course) They charge 40 for a less good job that the mobile man but still good enough for most of the trade.

Out of Joe's 55 he has to run his van and buy his chemicals.He only manages one job per day so I doubt he ends up with 300 a week even working six days.



.....and Henry you are part of the problem,less money to spend.It's why when I go to Lidl the car park is now full of Mercs,Audis and BMW's and Morrisons is empty.Everyone is getting money savvy.

mikedreamer787
15th Nov 2014, 09:15
It's us pensioners who are supporting the economy....But you do have some form a nest egg Mr crun?

You know, some sort of super you cashed in yonks
ago - before the socialists legislated to get their
filthy mits on it?

mixture
15th Nov 2014, 09:47
When a new car dealer told me he was making as little as 1.5% on a sale I started to wonder.It is generally assumed that competitiveness is a good thing,I get the feeling though that it can go too far and start to harm the economy.

Its not only the car industry Effluent Man .... look at what has become of the IT industry !

5% margins ....if you're lucky !

The only stuff with more than 5% are various parts used in business environments.

mixture
15th Nov 2014, 09:52
I don't think the UK is likely to suffer it as badly as some of the artificially controlled Eurozone economies.

Euro might become an interesting place..... (some of) the banks are starting to pass on the ECB's negative interest rates to their business customers and are charging them interest on their deposits ....

So its only a matter of time until that vicious circle gets completed and those businesses start charging their customers more....

Capetonian
15th Nov 2014, 09:58
Eurozone dodges triple-dip recession but submerges in 'lost decade' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11231618/Eurozone-dodges-triple-dip-recession-but-submerges-in-lost-decade.html)

The outlook for the Eurozone is grimmer than ever.

I hear a rumour that at least one commercial bank in Germany is going to start 'paying negative interest', which of course is an oxymoron, to private customers.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
15th Nov 2014, 10:32
The 'won't buy a new car now 'cos it'll be cheaper next year' argument for anti-deflation is a poor argument, because it is only a short term effect. Sooner or later, you need a new car as your old one falls apart. Also, iPhone 6's will be cheaper next year, and some will wait, but that isn't leaving them sat on the shelves.
Inflation reduces public debt at the expense of savers, mostly pensioners. The politicians have mortgaged the Western World to the hilt because mainstream parties feel they are unelectable unless they spend, spend, spend. Printing monopoly money (aka Quantitative Easing) has worked for a bit, but now the financial markets are addicted to it; witness last month's 'correction' until the Fed hinted at extended low interest rates and Japan massively boosted QE.
One could say the non-working are stealing off everybody's grannies.
It will all end in tears.
Deflation is being demonised because it will cause the crash sooner, not (as claimed) because it will cause it.

The basic problem with low sales and profit margins is....

nobody's got any money.

Wages are dropping in real terms, job security is mostly out the window, and indirect taxation is rising every day, in every way.

People are not buying new cars because of deflation, they are not buying new cars because of the above problems with actually having the cash to buy them. Needless to say, a sub-prime car loan crisis is now quietly building ('People are buying cars they shouldn't be': subprime autos are the next crisis | Money | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/oct/12/buying-cars-subprime-autos-next-financial-crisis)). It won't be as bad as 2008, but it will be bad.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
15th Nov 2014, 10:41
The gov tells us the rate of inflation is less that 2%. Is it? My personal spend inflation rate is a heck of a lot higher than that. Even the pint in my local is 5% more expensive than it was a year ago. A GMPTE 'Wayfarer' ticket I bought this week (senior) is 6. The last one I bought (18 months ago) was 5, so there's a 20% increase straight away.

VP959
15th Nov 2014, 10:44
I think a major part of the problem is that we've become used to profit margins that are greater than could be supported in the long term.

Housing development is a good example. The old rule of thumb that developers used was one third for the land, one third for the build, one third profit. For years this rule of thumb allowed big developers to prosper, and fuel house price inflation because demand outstripped supply (at least in the southern part of the UK).

The house price recession re-wrote the rules. Land still costs much the same, and has pretty much increased in line with inflation, house build costs have risen very slightly above inflation, but profit margins have dropped to between 5% and 10%, rather than the 30% the big developers were used to.

I'm not convinced this is a bad thing, as I believe it will end up rebalancing the economy across a large number of sectors. Sectors where pressure to reduce cost hasn't been high before may well now feel the squeeze in the same way that sectors who've been under such cost-reduction pressure for decades, like farmers. One consequence may be to broaden markets, much as has happened with farming. Years ago Farmer's Markets were rare and farm shops were little more than roadside stalls, yet today (at least in this area) they offer top quality produce in a super-market like environment, with a home delivery service. Most are directly competing with the higher end supermarkets, like Waitrose, and doing a pretty good job at it.

If we see small builders doing the same, and offering to build and sell direct to those seeking a new home, then I suspect that prices will come down and quality may improve. The snag is the availability of land; our planners would far, far rather do a deal with a big developer than deal with a dozen small builders, because they can get a bigger backhander from the developer.

Effluent Man
15th Nov 2014, 10:44
People are buying new cars,or in many cases leasing them.Some of the deals defy logic until you analyse the maths.For Example entry level Peugeot 107/C1.I got a friend of Mrs EM a brand new one for 6250.So it is fair to assume it doesn't cost the dealer much over 6k.

You can lease one for 99 per month for 36 months,so 3564,leaving it standing at 2436.the terms of the lease are quite strict,a 6k a year mileage restriction so that would mean a 2011 "61" plate with 18k on the dial. A dealer would probably stock it at 4k and put it on the forecourt at 4995.

That seems crazy I know but bear in mind a new one to a punter would be 7000+ on the road.Bog basic mind you.Wind you own windows,just a fire and fiddle.(Heater and wireless)

The Nip
15th Nov 2014, 10:51
F3
New car registrations pass two million in 2014 with October surge
Posted at 08:59 on 6 November 2014.

New car registrations jumped 14.2% in October to 179,714 units, marking the 32nd consecutive month of growth.
2,137,910 cars registered in the year-to-date first time the market has passed two million in October since 2007.
October performance exceeded expectations; demand for new cars set to stabilise in coming months.

Source: SMMT

In the UK this seems at odds with the general perception there is no money.

There always seems plenty of money for 'luxuries'

Fox3WheresMyBanana
15th Nov 2014, 10:53
VP959 - House price profit margins being so low is a very bad thing. Big developers are cutting every corner possible on the builds, and are even more aggressive in lobbying against owner-builders.

Know how much a kitchen fitter gets for fitting a kitchen in a new build? 40-80. Guess how careful a job he does for that.

The Nip - my brother mentioned to me in 2006 that he knew two people who had bought new cars just in order to get the cashback in order to pay off their mortgage bill that month. At that point we realised the credit crunch was inevitable, and made appropriate plans. You need to ask how those cars were bought.
Furthermore, there are several factors combining to produce a short term surge in purchases.
There has been a 6 year drop in new car production due to the 2008 crisis (see the Production graph halfway down here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_United_Kingdom)
The cost of running old cars is relatively increasing - 10 year old cars now are a lot more expensive to fix, and less reliable, than 10 year old cars 10 years ago.
Public transport is getting worse and more expensive all the time.
Note that purchases are still below the normal for the mid-2000's. This is a recovery,not a surge.

I shall probably buy a new car next year, and I've never bought one before. It now makes economic sense to do so, but only because cars are now much more likely to run well for 7 years then die completely. Leasing also makes sense now for the same reason. Either a new car, or I shall buy a 1997 or earlier truck in good nick with no goodies and keep that going cheaply - I am learning to weld!

Capot
15th Nov 2014, 11:29
'won't buy a new car now 'cos it'll be cheaper next year' argument for anti-deflation is a poor argument, because it is only a short term effect. Sooner or later, you need a new carNo you don't; you need a slightly less old used car than the one you think you need to dispose of.

More probably you don't need to dispose of the one you've got, you only think you do because it's "old" and you don't like to be seen driving it. Most modern cars, say since 1990, have at least a 15-year/250,000 mile life, with reasonable maintenance. Ask any taxi-driver/owner.

The car industry thrives on people "needing" a newer car than the perfectly good one they've got. In the UK, this idiocy is pandered to by the Government, at the industry's behest, by a registration system that displays the vehicle's age.

If deflation means more and more people realising this, and keeping cars for twice as long as at present, that's a very good thing, except for the car dealing trade.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
15th Nov 2014, 11:40
My brother is a taxi-driver (London Cabbie). Before that he was an extremely good mechanic full time. He now leases his taxi, but still does part-time mechanic work for his friends. This is because he is expert at fault-finding, and will charge them a lot less than a garage to find the fault - and he actually replaces the correct part first time!
As best I can find, car life expectancy has come down from 16 years to 13.6 years over the last 10 years.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
15th Nov 2014, 11:58
It's us pensioners who are supporting the economy. I used to have a decent income from interest on my hard-earned savings, but this has dropped to nearly nothing.

I think henry has a valid point (OK, I'm a pensioner as well who has lost a chunk of investment income).

There is a deliberate government policy to transfer money from savers to those in debt (which, of course, includes the Government) by implementing ludicrously low interest rates and QE (printing money). Some financial gurus will argue that that makes sense in the current climate. Non the less, it seems mightily immoral to me.

I'm lucky in that I'm cushioned by a company pension (oh, and the state one). But I know plenty of folk who are not so lucky.

Loose rivets
15th Nov 2014, 12:04
EM, check your PMs.


Later in the thread.


and are even more aggressive in lobbying against owner-builders.

What does that mean? (that's not obvious). Sounds like gangsterism. :ooh:

Shaggy Sheep Driver
15th Nov 2014, 12:05
Public transport is getting worse and more expensive all the time.

More expensive certainly, because government doesn't put as much money in as they used to. But worse? Not in my experience. The railways are a million times better than they were 20 years ago, and our local bus service has just doubled in frequency from hourly to half hourly.

I shall probably buy a new car next year, and I've never bought one before. It now makes economic sense to do so, but only because cars are now much more likely to run well for 7 years then die completely.

I bought a new MX5 in 2007 (so getting on for 8 years old now). Touching wood, it's as good today as the day I bought it.

There's absolutely no shortage of new Range Rovers, Porches, Astons etc around here. Not everyone is 'avin it 'ard.

The Nip - my brother mentioned to me in 2006 that he knew two people who had bought new cars just in order to get the cashback in order to pay off their mortgage bill that month.

With financial planning like that, some people are their own worst enemies.

As best I can find, car life expectancy has come down from 16 years to 13.6 years over the last 10 years.

Anecdotal evidence is that what kills cars now isn't rust or expensive mechanical failures, it's the failure of electronics such as engine management systems, ABS systems, air bag systems etc. The cost of replacing these can be more than an old car is worth, and they are not something one can fix oneself.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
15th Nov 2014, 12:16
My recent UK experience is limited to Greater Manchester, Staffordshire and London last year.
I agree the trains are better (if you can book in advance and know where to break the journeys) in terms of punctuality and cleanliness, but the onboard services are worse and I don't much care for the ubiquity of mobiles, even in the quiet carriage. I found the buses significantly worse in all respects.

Relying on the income from savings investment is over. Safe investments barely cover inflation. Expect to live off the capital itself.

SSD - I agree with your additional points on cars. My point is that car loan lenders are clearly ignoring their own guidelines on allowable loans, and this is institutionally backed, just as it was with mortgages leading up to 2008. In short, financial regulation is still practically non-existant. Cars still die of rust where I am (maritime rural Canada - when steel has nightmares, they are located here!) but electronics aren't even fixable by garages now. Replace the unit is the only option. Overall we are lucky - many local garages have scrapyards out the back, and as long as you have a common type they just go grab a used electronic box out of a rusted scrappie. Half the Island drives a Chevy Cavalier, the other half drives a Toyota Corolla or an F-150 truck.

Effluent Man
15th Nov 2014, 12:29
Yes,it's the expense of the parts that does for cars,and it is deliberate.A friend recently suffered failure of the timing chain wheel on his Mercedes C200.It has done 95k and the replacement parts are over 1000 with VAT.

Now when a new car is 25k how can a toothed metal wheel cost 1000? And if it does it should last,more or less forever.It's correct that people decide to stop throwing money and their old car and replace it.ECU's are the same.About the size of one of the old two ounce baccy tins,typically 600 with the VAT.

And the record registrations in the UK? We have no idea who bought them,only that they have been registered.Lease cars are in there as are vehicles registered to themselves by dealerships to reach bonus targets.

Astons,Bentley,Rollers,Range Rovers.no problem here those people are rolling in it,see my OP.

flying lid
15th Nov 2014, 12:34
Anecdotal evidence is that what kills cars now isn't rust or expensive mechanical failures, it's the failure of electronics such as engine management systems, ABS systems, air bag systems etc. The cost of replacing these can be more than an old car is worth, and they are not something one can fix oneself.

Too true. The home based guy who services and does odd small repairs to my cars tells me "Most modern cars will die an electronic death". He can troubleshoot and repair the odd sensor etc, but the more modern the car is, the more the need is for dealer based specialist diagnostic kit.

Glad I still have my 1973 Rover V8 - no electronics other than simple coil & points.

Lid

Shaggy Sheep Driver
15th Nov 2014, 12:44
I was told that with some cars, if the battery dies, you can't just get another on the net or from Halfords as the battery is 'intelligent' and 'talks to' other electrical and electronic components in the car. So it's a unique dealer-only battery, which has to be dealer-programmed for that model of that car. :confused:

Mechta
15th Nov 2014, 13:13
Houses:

Quote:
and are even more aggressive in lobbying against owner-builders.
What does that mean? (that's not obvious). Sounds like gangsterism. :ooh:What Fox3 is inferring is that housing developers are putting pressure on planning departments to discourage people from buying a piece of land and putting up the house they want on it. With no developer involved and their profit out of the equation the builder gets more and the owner saves money. This will also have the effect of the British public seeing how they have been ripped off over the years and could have had a much higher specced house for the same money e.g. with a basement giving 1/3 extra space.

Re: Cars

With the large numbers of diesels sold in the UK over the last 15 years, we are now stuck with a glut of cars with around 100,000 miles which need common rail injection pumps, electronic injectors and dual mass flywheels to be replaced. Fixing any of these is close to the value of the car, so it will either get scrapped or bought for near scrap value by a back street mechanic who has the skills and parts to fix it cheaply and make a killing on it.

Has anyone else noticed how many car scrapyards have closed, or don't sell to the public? Getting parts off them yourself is almost impossible around here, and internet auction sites seem to be the only way to buy used parts.

With regard to the car's electronics, any home mechanic who doesn't invest in a 20 fault code reader, is going to have an expensive time.

VP959
15th Nov 2014, 13:18
Loose rivets wrote:

Later in the thread.


and are even more aggressive in lobbying against owner-builders.
What does that mean? (that's not obvious). Sounds like gangsterism.

It is a bit like gangersterism. The way the planning system works is that planning permission is far, far more likely to be granted to a developer who wants to build lots of houses on open land, than to someone who wants to just build a house for themselves on a small bit of land. The reasons are complex, but a prime one is that developers effectively pay for planning permission, via a charge on them from the planning authority. Owner-builders are not normally required to pay this charge (which can be many thousands of pounds per plot), so as far as the planners are concerned they generate more local authority income from dealing with developers than they do from dealing with owner-builders.

As with a few things in local government there are always a few who seek personal benefit from the system. I know of four cases in the past few years where support from local councillors for a planning application was gained, in part, through giving them a consideration. Not cash, as that's too easy to trace, but material benefits that were passed on via a fairly tortuous route to avoid detection. In one case I personally witnessed draft plans for future development sites (which were highly confidential, as they hadn't been approved by the local authority) being handed to a developer by a councillor. Funny old thing, but a few months later the said councillor happened to have a top of the range spa installed - a bit odd seeing as the individual was on benefits.

Capetonian
15th Nov 2014, 13:19
a glut of cars with around 100,000 miles which need common rail injection pumps, electronic injectors and dual mass flywheels to be replaced. Fixing any of these is close to the value of the carAdd to that list, diesel particulate filters.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
15th Nov 2014, 13:20
With regard to the car's electronics, any home mechanic who doesn't invest in a 20 fault code reader, is going to have an expensive time.

Such a reader is no panacea. It might tell you a sensor is faulty and it might get it right. I know folk who've changed all sorts of sensors having read the error codes, and the car remains faulty.

The real killer, though, is when a 'black box' dies. Even if you can accurately diagnose which box has failed (especially if it's the notorious intermittent management light coming on) the cost of the box is the issue (you can't fix them). And if you can't positively identify what has failed (often the case with intermittent failures) you're into a very expensive 'box swap' session to try to eliminate the fault.

beaufort1
15th Nov 2014, 13:30
I must admit, I'm not looking forward to replacing my current car. We don't have any dealerships on island. :uhoh:

Fox3WheresMyBanana
15th Nov 2014, 14:00
Mechta, VP959 - thanks, that's exactly what I meant. I try to make my evidence at least 2nd hand anecdotal. My brother spent 5 years trying to get planning permission for a new house on land which already had a house on it - demolish/replace, same bedrooms etc. Any number of illegal ploys by planning department. Land sold. Two years later, there are 30 cheap box houses on it, Green Belt.

1997- last year (over here) before common rail diesels became common. Also much easier to convert to SVO (that's cooking oil to you).

Capot
15th Nov 2014, 15:35
Beaufort, I'm intrigued that you need a car at all on Alderney; even if walking or cycling (electric bike/trike?) are not possible, surely there are buggies, pony & trap, other choices (even taxis, I wouldn't know) available to get around that beautiful place. What about a tuk-tuk?

After all, one end to the other of the island, by road, is about 3 miles, isn't it?

airship
15th Nov 2014, 16:55
Capot, they're very accident prone on 3 mile island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident). Tut tut. :p

flying lid
15th Nov 2014, 19:15
Has anyone else noticed how many car scrapyards have closed, or don't sell to the public? Getting parts off them yourself is almost impossible around here, and internet auction sites seem to be the only way to buy used parts.


Front windscreen wiper linkage seized a while ago on wife's Ford Galaxy. Over 350 + VAT at fords. Used this site 247 Spares - Buy Cheap Car Parts Online! - UK (http://www.247spares.co.uk/) to find a replacement. Received an email & follow up call within the hour. A used tested unit from a breaker for 60 incl vat & delivery, also guaranteed for 90 days. Guy knew his stuff describing the unit. A ford dismantler in Stoke on Trent.

On my old Rover, brake master cylinder failed last year, sourced a brand new one on the net, a firm in Windsor, again the guy knew his stuff, part no's and all. Received the following day and fitted the day after. Not cheap, but was an original new Lockheed unit, also guaranteed. I.ve never used ebay (yet) for car spares.

For "black boxes" ECU's etc try this site. http://www.bba-reman.com/uk/index.aspx
My mechanic friend has used them with good results - he has managed to keep several cars on the road with their services

Lid

beaufort1
15th Nov 2014, 19:38
Capot yes, you would think so, for most things I can walk, but we do a fair bit for the local Wildlife Trust and I need a vehicle with off road and reasonable carrying capabilities. As an example today, this morning I needed my chainsaw to finish off making some rustic benches and then this afternoon I needed to carry a froe, side axes, chisels and assorted sharpening stones to another site. Plus the weather here can get interesting in winter. :)

G-CPTN
15th Nov 2014, 19:50
we do a fair bit for the local Wildlife Trust and I need a vehicle with off road and reasonable carrying capabilities.
Job for a Landie (what they now call a Defender, rather than a Disco or an Freelander).

ChrisVJ
15th Nov 2014, 21:55
Until we came to Canada we bought decent second hand cars and ran them till they died.

When we got her we bought either one year old or new and ran them till they died too.

Recently Mrs VJ got a call from Honda "How would you like to trade your two year old, mid mileage, Civic?"

"Definitely not. In a couple of years it will be paid for" (about $200 a month after she paid a bigger initial purchase payment.)

"But we can make the payment the same."

Yes, it goes out an extra few years but the saving in maintenance and warranty will pretty well cover it, it fixes her costs and if she does the same again in another two or three years she drives a new, with all the features, car all the time. Made a lot of sense.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
15th Nov 2014, 22:25
Since you are trading up before the warranties run out you are, effectively, leasing. I think this makes economic sense at the moment.

tdracer
15th Nov 2014, 23:47
The real killer, though, is when a 'black box' dies. Even if you can accurately diagnose which box has failed (especially if it's the notorious intermittent management light coming on) the cost of the box is the issue (you can't fix them). And if you can't positively identify what has failed (often the case with intermittent failures) you're into a very expensive 'box swap' session to try to eliminate the fault. About 25 years ago, I had an RX-7 that I had purchased new five years earlier. The horn stopped working - which resulted in a couple close calls (the first time I had no idea the horn didn't work until I tried to use it to alert the car that was about to back into me :eek:). Being a decent backyard mechanic I was able to troubleshoot and traced the fault to large black box in the drivers kick panel, labeled "CPU". Went into the Mazda dealer and told them I needed a new CPU - 'that'll be $500'. Yikes! The parts guy knew me well, and asked 'do you know which board is bad'? 'Yea, the big one with the three relays (there were three boards inside the 'CPU')'. 'Oh, I can get you just that circuit board for $30' :D


I currently have a 2007 BMW 3 series that I got new. Great car, I absolutely love it and to date the only fault I've experienced is a burned out turn signal bulb. I have no intention of ever replacing it - with the notable exception of gas mileage it's equal or better than a new 3 series (and I can buy a ship-load of gas for the ~$25k difference in price). But if the computer fails :ugh:

reynoldsno1
16th Nov 2014, 22:58
most modern cars, say since 1990, have at least a 15-year/250,000 mile life, with reasonable maintenance
I've got a 97 Nissan Pulsar (used Japanese import) - 146,000km - no rust - serviced every 6 months - had to replace a front suspension strut about 3 years ago(35 quid, worn bush). It just doesn't break down. I was going to replace it about 5 years ago - but seems little point at the moment.