BOAC B707 ops in the 1960s

[Stu666]

There was also the true story of a flight engineer on the very first BOAC flight to Moscow who was convinced his hotel bedroom was bugged. He felt something lumpy under the carpet, rolled it back and found a metal object screwed to the floor. He unscrewed it and heard a massive crash as the chandelier in the room below fell to the floor.

:D

There's not many things that genuinely make me laugh out loud on t'Interweb, but that just did! :ok:

[WHBM]

Readersof (and contributors to) this thread might find this excerpt (http://steemrok.com/MQexcerpt5) from Madeleine'sQuest amusing.


An interesting story about life on a BOAC 707 en-route from Honolulu to Los Angeles, complete with a Hollywood actress on board, etc.

However ...

Did BOAC ever run 707s on the route from Honolulu to LAX ? Through the bulk of the 1960s they only served San Francisco in California, all with 707s, coming west from London through New York, across from Hong Kong and Tokyo through Honolulu, and up from Sydney and Fiji, also through Honolulu.

When they diverted the Sydney flights through Los Angeles instead, I believe that was when they changed the aircraft type on the South Pacific to the Super VC-10. About 1969. The Hong Kong route kept the 707, but also kept to San Francisco.

BOAC had much earlier, around 1962, run 707s on a separate direct London to Los Angeles route, but they didn’t really have the range and often had to stop, certainly westbound, at Winnipeg for fuel. When that was given up after a short while, LA was unserved again.

So, BOAC 707s on HNL-LAX ?

[vctenderness]

1970's BOAC it was definitely VC-10 Sydney through the West.

The BA591 LHR-JFK-LAX-HNL-NAN-SYD.

Crew either came back same route or went home via the East.

The Captain referred to in the story who insisted on being called Captain G*****Sir was on VC10's and was extremely unpopular with everyone so much so that he would not put his suitcase in the hold as it often got lost or squashed or left on apron in rain.

The Sydney through the west was so popular with crew that legend has it one crew had 591 tattooed on their bums!

[Wunwing]

WHBM
I disagree with you about the B747 water injection.
It was reasonably reliable and in the case of the airline I flew with remained widely used until the aircraft were replaced with RR engine new ones after about 1979 .
It was however a bit nerve racking in use ,particularly for the FE.I don't remember the engines being designated with a W. Our final ones were JT9 7Fs (from memory).

In the case of the 707s water disappeared fairly early when the JT3s were fan modified.
Wunwing

[DaveReidUK]

I don't remember the engines being designated with a W. Our final ones were JT9 7Fs (from memory).

The JT9D-3A, -7, -7H, -7A, -7AH, -7F and -20 all had both dry and wet T/O ratings.

[Sultan Ismail]

Back to that water injection, as has been stated the system operated for the first couple of minutes of takeoff and climb out. Thereafter what was left became unnecessary baggage and soon after that it became frozen baggage, a large ice lolly.
My home was a mile west of Grand Central airport which is about 5 miles northwest of Jan Smuts, thus it was we would lie on the lawn in the early evening and watched the European bound aircraft dump their excess water over our house.

[propaganda]

The Captain referred to in the story who insisted on being called Captain G*****Sir was on VC10's and was extremely unpopular with everyone so much so that he would not put his suitcase in the hold as it often got lost or squashed or left on apron in rain.

Heard many a story about Capt Blade from Senior Captains who had witnessed first -hand his behaviour as Junior flight crew.He was thankfully very much in the minority.:=

[crewmeal]

Oh you must be referring to 'The Blade'. He used to wear a pair of white gloves and checked the cleanliness of the aircraft and woe betide the cleaners and cabin crew if there was any dust. Of course those were the days before slots came along. Now the stories are coming out.

[WHBM]

In the case of the 707s water disappeared fairly early when the JT3s were fan modified.
When the fan was put on the JT3C, becoming the JT3D, American and Pan Am did a substantial refit programme for their engines and converted them all to fan, but TWA, Continental and Braniff did not and retained their original engines. There must have been some cost reason why some did and some didn't. The TWA ones lasted as such in their fleet until the early 1970s.

The notable feature of water in use was the heavy smoke on departure. Someone more tech than myself can maybe explain why water injection leads to this. Also was it pure water ? The BAC One-Eleven used a water-methanol mix for the same performance enhancement purpose.

[Flightwatch]

The BAC 1-11 did not use water-methanol, it used demineralised water. Watermeth was used in the Dart engine to produce the same effect. I believe the JT9D used demineralised water also.

[Allan Lupton]

The BAC 1-11 did not use water-methanol, it used demineralised water. Watermeth was used in the Dart engine to produce the same effect. I believe the JT9D used demineralised water also.
The methanol was there as antifreeze so the water injection could be scheduled for the baulked landing WAT case. Without the antifreeze all sorts of obvious problems would ensue.
The 1-11 did not need water for that WAT case and I understand that where it was scheduled for takeoff the water was selected "on" until it ran out - therefore no antifreeze required.

[nigelhillpaul]

Good evening wherever you all are,
I love the stories as my father was a flight engineer on the 707’s. I grew up into a dispatcher and only touched them before they went.
Does anyone out there still have any loadsheets, I’d love to add them to my collection.

[rog747]

Good evening wherever you all are,
I love the stories as my father was a flight engineer on the 707’s. I grew up into a dispatcher and only touched them before they went.
Does anyone out there still have any loadsheets, I’d love to add them to my collection.

I did have some from my time at BMA when we had three refurbed 707-320C's with 211Y seats for holiday charters from April 1982 to end of 1984 -
Although the MTOW was 151 tonnes we operated them to the MED and on SKI flights with a very reduced artificial MTOW and MLW's to enable much lower airport handling charges.
Condor did the same with their DC-10's

Flew on our 707's quite often in the jump seat.
The weights were 'normalised' when we did the USA and Canada TA flights and anything going West coast saw the 707 at Max weights (no shiny bits left on the gear struts) and no doubt a ton or two extra in the tanks for 'mum'

[Discorde]

Thanks for all the inputs, many of which were sampled to add flavour to the tale, which also features a restored Spitfire. There was no room for the sophisticated barmaid but she's been put in abeyance for a possible sequel.

D

[Discorde]

PPRuNe's rules do not allow promotion of the book but it has received favourable reviews (including one from a BOAC captain who did his National Service flying with Frederick Forsyth - 'the attention to atmospheric detail does sometimes remind me of his style'). The book includes a note of thanks to PPRuNers who contributed background material - much appreciated. It was worth the effort!

[Bergerie1]

Discorde, Can you PM me with the title of the book you cannot advertise here. Many thanks in advance.

[SimonPaddo]

Me too please. Many thanks.

[Jhieminga]

I can see that Discorde is not allowed to promote his own book, but I will happily promote it for him. It may well be this title: https://amzn.to/3sRA2WZ, but if not, have a look at the author's Amazon page.

[Gordomac]

Sadly, not a book reader. AC Kermode's "Flight without formulae" was hard enough. Lurking around PPrune saw me locked into this thread though. What a nostalgic read. I won't be getting the book but thinking of copying all the foregoing and reading it at leisure in the sun with me Jack " Coke.

One Q. Entering BOAC as a pilot (however, even via Hamble) and facing split time as Nav /p2 (quite heroic, actually- if at Hamble, the thought of it would put me right off BOAC) - How long to LHS. Sounds like it was quite fast. I left BA because, for one reason, in 1976, time to LHS was so long, lovely Lass in Personnel told me it "doesn't compute. Around 20 years from date of joining is what you should look at" ! I left.( BA that is) On leaving her office, Of course,asked her if she fancied a coffee

Marve nostalgic read chaps.

[akerosid]

I'm a dispatcher and I've been asked to set some manual loadsheet tests (which we have to do monthly, for regularly purposes). I would love to use an old BOAC/BA (or indeed any carrier's) 707 manual loadsheet (or indeed for any old jet) as a model for doing one of these. It would be quite interesting, for historical purposes. Usually, we do A320s month after month and it does get a tad boring!

If you could share on this thread or PM me, it would be hugely appreciated.

[blind pew]

I'm a dispatcher and I've been asked to set some manual loadsheet tests (which we have to do monthly, for regularly purposes). I would love to use an old BOAC/BA (or indeed any carrier's) 707 manual loadsheet (or indeed for any old jet) as a model for doing one of these. It would be quite interesting, for historical purposes. Usually, we do A320s month after month and it does get a tad boring!

If you could share on this thread or PM me, it would be hugely appreciated.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1366x1024/img_2457_78cf2043b9e8e665c3ef8f2773e92a8c796fce14.png

[blind pew]

Gordomac might recognise the skipper….and tell a tale
whoops just looked at the heading

[Jhieminga]

I have a VC10 loadsheet here: https://www.vc10.net/Photos/memorabelia_1.html#Loadsheet but that's a computer generated one. Might have a manual one at home but I will have to find and scan it.

[Gordomac]

BP ; Thanks. I thought everyone loved my stories (!). Yes, apart from T2, on that date, I was just a Northeast Sponsored Cadet at Oxford on Cherokees. ; Er, did I tell you chaps how I got into sponsored pilot training ?................Ok, ok. I'm off......................

[pax britanica]

Did BOAC/BA allow cabin crews to interchange between 707/VC10 back in the day . I always thought that if Iwas crew of either kind I would want to be on the fleet that did the amazing Tokyo-Hong Kong-Colombo-Seychelles-Jo'burg trip which i think only operated 2-3 times a weekend has to be one of the worlds most exotic duties. I never got to try it myself but did get to Sez in the year it opened and also to Hong Kong but never had to go from one to the other. I assume there was some kind of interchange along the way to get the aircraft and crew back to LHR and replace them with a fresh crew. Any ex BOAC foks on here do that trip?

[Bergerie1]

Pax B, BOAC VC10 and B707 cabin crew were dual qualified on both types. Some time ago I wrote this about the Indian Ocean trips:-I have often been asked which was my favourite route. To me, the best was a 10 day triangular trip that could be done in either direction with different selections of stops. For example, the first leg might be to Bahrain, the next to Bombay or Calcutta. Then to Singapore and Hong Kong; back via Singapore and Colombo; then across to the Seychelles and on to either Blantyre or Johannesburg. And finally back to London via Nairobi or Entebbe with night stops all along the way. What a diverse selection of cultures and aeronautical problems; the monsoon in India, the approach at low level through the harbour to Hong Kong; back to Colombo flying along beside huge thunderstorms filled with sheets of almost continuous lightening. The let down on limits to the Seychelles which involved flying overhead the radio beacon, heading southeast out to sea, descending to break cloud and then turning back towards the island, peering through low cloud and driving rain trying to see the lighthouse at Victoria and then flying visually along the coast until the approach lights of the airport appeared from round behind the hill. All good Mark 1 eyeball stuff.

Then on to Africa for a landing at Blantyre, in Malawi, where the narrower than normal runway made it difficult to judge the flare height – the locals used to come to watch the resulting spectacular bounces. Or, alternatively, to Johannesburg with an elevation of 5,500ft. What a wonderful trip, and with time off at most of the stops to explore. Rose-tinted spectacles? Yes, most certainly – but that is what memories are made of. What a magnificent aircraft and what wonderfully diverse routes for us to enjoy!

I think that says it all!!

[WHBM]

Did BOAC/BA allow cabin crews to interchange between 707/VC10 back in the day . I always thought that if I was crew of either kind I would want to be on the fleet that did the amazing Tokyo-Hong Kong-Colombo-Seychelles-Jo'burg trip which i think only operated 2-3 times a weekend has to be one of the worlds most exotic duties. I never got to try it myself but did get to Sez in the year it opened and also to Hong Kong but never had to go from one to the other. I assume there was some kind of interchange along the way to get the aircraft and crew back to LHR and replace them with a fresh crew. Any ex BOAC foks on here do that trip?
We discussed this one a while ago, it was actually more straightforward than it sounds, London-Hong Kong-Jo'burg-London being just a variation of a Hong Kong return. The Tokyo leg was actually part of the daily BOAC transpacific flight San Francisco-Honolulu-Tokyo-Hong Kong, and the same aircraft didn't necessarily work through at Hong Kong, whatever the timetable said. BA Hong Kong to Jo'burg lasted well into 747 days.

BOAC had the main long distance licences out of Hong Kong, and Cathay was a regional bit player in comparison, something which only slowly changed. BOAC did he routes to USA, Australia and South Africa, as well as all stops to London. I think they had a cabin crew base at Hong Kong, though not a pilot base, although as others have again fondly described there were also BOAC bases at places like Honolulu with short term basing.

[pax britanica]

Bergrie, WHBM

Thanks for your very interesting replies.
I know the crew didnt often do the whole trip from end to end very often and operated Joburg or HK to LHR sectors .As yousaya few days off en route to add to the fun.

I ahve been lucky enough to go to Seychelles half a dozen times and so familiar with the very tricky approach due to local terrain . I was stuck there for a three day delay when the BA LHR-Bahrain Sez Mauritius hit a bird between BAh and Seychelles.
which was intialy thought not to have been much trouble but having had the chance to go and have a look in SEz decided departing from an island 1000 miles from anywhere witha dogy engine wsnt the smartest thing. Now there are two lots of pax to contend with and some people really had t rough it .I was lucky as we just went back to the little hotel and had three days holiday work having been completed. Along with the BA crew I was on what was probably my best ever business trip Seychelles for a week , Mauritius for 9 days Nairobi for 4 days. BAck then my company had a rule that if you were away for more than 50 days ina year you could have spouse (almost always a wife in 70s) accompany you and I was able to take her along in the interests of marital harmony. Two years later we were back there SEZ and MRU on BA staff travel as wife worked at 'Speedbird London' .

[Shaman]

ExSp33db1rd

wonderful stories thank you
Ditto

[RetiredBA/BY]

Ex Britannia, Yes, I did !