Post-apocalyptic takeoff. How to fly from an abandoned airport?

[George_Right]

I'm a private pilot myself, but have no experience with airliners beyond MFS. Now I need a competent consultation as a writer.
So, we are in the post-apocalyptic world and we need to fly from southern US to Australia. We have a big airport (class B or C) with any kind of civil planes we need for the task, fuel trucks with jet fuel and a pilot. However, the airport was abandoned several months ago, there is no electricity and no survivors except for our small group (3-4 men. so we cannot move too heavy things). All batteries in planes and vehicles are probably exhausted.
We need to start the truck, then we need to start the plane. How to do this? Can we find any generators in the airport which we can start w/o electricity and get power for other systems? What jet models have an APU which can be started w/o electricity?

[Dash8driver1312]

Without electricity? You're bump-starting any piston-engined cars/trucks if you're lucky. And all APUs/jet engines need some kind of external power source, electricity for APUs and usually a bleed air system for jet engines, but you'll still need electricity within certain voltages and amps for the FADECs anyway.

[Tu.114]

I have read about alternative starting methods from the era of the F-84/F-86. The jet blast of another, obviously running, fighter was directed up the intake of the aircraft to be started in order to spin its engine. A bit like a windmilling start inflight, although most likely involving rather big thermal stress to the recipient.

Someone who has been around at that time will surely be out in a second to correct me if needed.

In the situation the OP outlined, one might start small and move on then. Why not collect a heap of discharged car batteries. Insert one of them into a small car or truck (a follow-me, a baggage tug or similar should be available from Your description), push-start it, wait for its engine to recharge its battery. Wash, rinse and repeat until a sufficient number of batteries is charged. Then hook them up in series or parallel as required to achieve sufficient capacity and voltage and use this contraption to start a bigger engine. Firstly, a GPU to power up the aircrafts electric system and possibly as well the APU. Or if desired an air starter, depending on the aircraft to be used for the escape.

And from there, starting up an airliner should be trivial.

[TURIN]

If it's a big airport there will be hangars or maintenance facilities. Many have diesel powered emergency generators on site. They may also have a dedicated battery charging facility. Lead-Acid batteries are stored in a fully charged state, Ni-Cads either but you may find some usable units in the battery store room. Get the hangar generator up first and you may be able to charge an a/c battery to full.

...all APUs/jet engines need some kind of external power source...

Not necessarily. Some smaller turboprop a/c can start the engines from their own internal battery.

If you get the APU running you're laughing.

The B777 has a pneumatic starter on the APU in addition to an electric starter. So if you can get an air starter unit running and a partially discharged battery on board the a/c, you may be able to start the APU.

Refuelling will also require at least a working battery. But a fully powered a/c would be better.

Do not attempt to use a B787. :E

[Tu.114]

If it needs not be a jet airliner:

- An Antonov 2 has a flywheel starter that can be spun up by a handcrank stowed behind the copilots seat. The way to Australia would get a bit long on this type, following the Pacific coast via Alaska, Siberia and so on, but it would be another option.

- For example some EE Canberra can be started via a Coffman cartridge starter.

[darkroomsource]

The combination of everything above seems to be the solution.
Find a small manual transmission automobile, push start it.
Use it to jump start one or more generators and as many trucks as you need.
Now you can power and fuel whatever you need to power and fuel (of course, you could run out of fuel in the trucks and have to get some out of the ground tanks, but you have generator(s) running to do that).

[The Flying Pram]

Find a small manual transmission automobile, push start it.The O/P talked about "several months" Virtually all petrol engined vehicles made in the last 20 years will have an electronic fuel injection & ignition system, which won't operate without a reasonable level of voltage. So you are going to need at least ONE battery (or several connected in parallel) holding some charge. I wouldn't like to speculate if it is possible to "bump start" a mechanically injected diesel engined vehicle, without breaking the transmission:{. Many industrial diesel engines have decompressors, and can be hand swung, so look for one of these. If you're lucky it will be on a portable/mobile generator, so the next place to go will be a workshop with battery chargers. Bear in mind that heavily discharged lead acid batteries will take a long time to recover (if at all). Also note that alternators won't usually "excite" unless the warning light illuminates first (this small current passes through the rotor field circuit). So even getting an old diesel running is no guarantee of charging an on board battery.

Small petrol engines normally have self contained magnetos, and recoil starters - again there should be a portable generator somewhere. If you are REALLY lucky you might find an old petrol engined car with a dynamo - push one of these fast enough and it will fire up even with a completely flat battery! In short, I would be looking for small equipment, and ride on mowers - anything which can be hand swung, yet ideally has a battery and charging coil.

[Tu.114]

True - the new fancy electrickery could be a problem. But if one manages to find a diesel vehicle with a mechanic fuel injection and a stick shift, it is very well possible to push start it: one sits in the drivers seat, ignition switch ON, clutch depressed and first gear selected. Everyone else pushes; at maximum speed the pushing crew lets the car go (to avoid injury) while the driver lets the clutch jump to closed (abruptly!). On my gliding field, this was standard procedure in case of an empty battery. Might take more than one try though and ensuring that the fuel system is full (work the little hand pump until fuel comes out of the opened drain hole on the fuel filter assembly) beforehand may be smart as well.

[nonsense]

AGM batteries self discharge very slowly, though most modern vehicles have small but finite parasitic loads such as the central locking remote control receiver. Most motorcycles are genuinely "off" when turned off and anyway they still have permanent magnet alternators and carburettors. Small pull start gen sets aren't that uncommon. Lots of motorhomes and yachts have solar panels, heck lots of buildings have solar panels these days. Finding "seed power" to start your way up to bigger things shouldn't be difficult.

[sablatnic]

If you can find a garage with dry charged batteries you just have to add battery acid, and you have a charged battery.

[Intruder]

Find a solar charger & connect it to whatever you want charged!

[Wizofoz]

If need be-

Jury rig a hand-powered generator from a truck or car. Use this to start a car. Jumper-leads from the car to a GPU- now running GPU to power the busses of an aircraft.

Find a 777 300ER, 200LR or 200F. Fill the tanks.

With the small load you are talking about, you are now good for 20-22hrs- anywhere in the US to East-coast Australia. IRS will still be sufficient to get you at least landfall- visual nav to then find a suitable airfield.

[Just a spotter]

There's also potential issues raised by the nature of your apocalypse ...

A nuclear war type scenario would have associated electro-magnetic pulses (EMP) and longer term radiation that could adversely affect electronic systems on civilian aircraft. Also, some post nuke models predict significant amounts of ash in the atmosphere for a prolonged period of time after the conflict which could impact on the operation of both piston and jet engines.

[KBPsen]

You'll never get as far as getting an APU started. The zombies will get you first.

[George_Right]

A nuclear war type scenario...
No, it's an epidemic.
And yes, "zombies" are a problem ;)

Solar chargers are a good idea. What is the probability to find a solar powered system in a modern airport? I've seen solar panels on municipal buildings here in Florida, but not sure about airfields.

A mower is also a good idea, it can be easily found and hand-started. Will it provide enough power to jump-start a truck engine?

[The Flying Pram]

Will it provide enough power to jump-start a truck engine? Extremely unlikely. First get its own battery charged, connect that to a larger battery, and get THAT well charged. This could take many hours with only a flywheel magneto/generator available. Then do your "jump start" with the second one. In your scenario try and work up in stages - get a small forklift running first, then go for something bigger - an aircraft tug perhaps? Many forklifts run on Propane gas - this won't "go off" like unleaded petrol, and they have simple carburettors, probably very basic ignition as well. While you may not be able to push start one, you've a fairly good chance of starting it with a reasonable battery. That would give you a 30-50 amp alternator to play with...

Also note that any car with an alarm/immobiliser is going to be useless after a period of months. Many won't start after a few weeks in a long stay car park. A few tens of milliamps might not seem much, but multiply by 24 hours a day for a month, and you've a completely flat battery. And once it remains in that condition for several weeks it will suffer from sulphation, and never recover...

[glendalegoon]

SINCE it is a work of fiction, you can invent an airliner with just enough range and have it have starters like the old canberra bomber. A cartridge starterblows enough air to spin the engine.

you could easily do something like steal a battery from on e plane and put it in another to start the apu. once you have the apu going you might start using regular methods

you might even have to push the fuel trucks up to the planes and OVER WING FUEL using sort of a bucket brigade (it would take forever).

but if you are a writer, you can make it up, its only a book.


by the way, very few planes can make it non stop from USA to australia...why not really make it a great book and have your hero get to DAYTON USAF museum and take out the old B36 bomber or even the XB70...it is a fiction work, right?


here is an image of a POS venom using the cartrdige starter system:http://www.classicairforce.com/uploads/venom-start-small.jpg

[ground_star]

Large Civil Airport with most kinds of aircraft there? There is bound to be a King Air around there somewhere - take that with some spare batteries out of the cars/vans at the point of departure & go the long way round!

No faffing with air starts & can fly in/out of most places!

[easyflyer83]

A bit morbid. Haven't you anything more cheerful in your life to contemplate? Lol

[TURIN]

Better still if you can find one of these laying around...

http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/gulfstream-g650er-2.jpg


Earlier this year, a Gulfstream G650ER was flown 6,947 nm (12,866 km) from Los Angeles International Airport to Tullamarine Airport in Melbourne, Australia, at an average speed of Mach 0.86. This flight was accomplished with fuel reserves well in excess of the National Business Aviation Association’s (NBAA) instrument flight rules (IFR) requirements and took 14 hours and 58 minutes into head winds of up to 13 knots.

[pax britanica]

Assuming you get something started up how are you going to Navigate over 10,000 Km of open Ocean-that's the hard bit

[Tu.114]

As long as You have a couple of IRSs up and running, finding a land mass the size of Australia should surely be possible?

[wowzz]

Finding Australia is one thing, finding somewhere to land is another!

[teeteringhead]

Given possible EMP problems and other modern electickery, why not go lo-tech with the "vintage" vehicle for starters (pun intended) and then onto vintage aircraft. I rather like the idea of the "power chain" started with a hand-cranked Morris Minor.

Why not go the whole hog with a flying boat out of a museum - no probs finding somewhere to land that - just go for Sydney Harbour!

[JustOccurred2Me]

Given that every house in the neighbourhood seems to be covered in the damn things, I'd be looking for some photovoltaic cells (solar panels), a length of wire and a good pair of wire cutters plus a few decent sized batteries.... must be possible to reconfigure the panels and charge the batteries up this way?

[pax britanica]

But you can't just land on Australia can you, you need the 2 miles of concrete or hard compacted 'bush' if you want to walk away. Would the IRS platforms work after weeks of being powered down and dont you need to know where you are starting from in precise terms too?

[nonsense]

If you can find the east coast of Australia, Coolangatta and Sydney airports are readily identifiable and Tulla wouldn't be terribly hard to work out.

[KBPsen]

you need the 2 miles of concrete or hard compacted 'bush' if you want to walk away.Only if you want to use the aircraft again. As a couple of 777s have demonstrated, all you need is a reasonably flat surface. You'll even stop in a much shorter distance than if landing on a runway. it might be a bit of a rough arrival but it's quite survivable.

Your real problem are the zombies. They're gonna get you.

[George_Right]

SINCE it is a work of fiction, you can invent an airliner with just enough range and have it have starters like the old canberra bomber.

No, I hate this approach and such books. No "who cares?" and no "deus ex machina". Everything should be as realistic as possible. The characters may be lucky at some points, but their luck should not be impossible or unbelievable.
Museum and too exotic a/c will not work, as, first, the characters cannot travel too far to find them (so called zombies ARE a problem), and second, I guess a museum plane need something more than just fueling to get ready to fly.

As for navigation, Charles Lindbergh did this ;) Moreover, GPS should still work - nothing happened with the sats.

I don't think spare batteries will work after several months. At least my car battery (1 year old) needs recharging after several weeks even being disconnected from the car.

If B777's APU can be air-started, I think that's all we need. However, we still have to refuel it (it has some fuel to start, but not to fly to Australia). How to use it as a power source for a truck? I know where to connect the wires to jump start a car by another car, but not by a jet liner ;)

[Tu.114]

Tapping electricity from an APU in order to start a truck is a rather hard task and certainly not done with basic tools.

Depending on the APU in question, expect it to provide 400hz/115V three-phase AC into the aircrafts systems. First of all, how will You get it out? Maybe via an one-phase vacuum cleaner outlet in the galley, but this will definitely not bear the load of a car starter without blowing fuses. Otherwise, there typically are no power outlets on an aircraft. And once You have the power lines plugged in and leading out of the aircraft, You will need to have the AC transformed to 28V and rectified so You can feed the power into a car starter.

So I would suggest ditching this approach and going the other way round. First of all get as many trucks or small emergency Diesel generators to run as You like, then, with the batteries refilled, start up a GPU to power up the aircraft. That done, getting the APU to run and using that to start the main engines is easy.

In the course of this, You will easily get a fuel truck to run in order to fuel up the aircraft. If You do not, the long way would be via buckets. Fill a bucket on the "dead" fuel truck, carry it up to the overwing fuelling ports of the aircraft and then dump it into the tanks preferrably via a fuel funnel containing a filter mesh. Again, wash, rinse and repeat as long as needed.

[Wizofoz]

Moreover, GPS should still work - nothing happened with the sats.

Hmmm- the GPS constellation needs constant calibration to maintain its accuracy, so don't be too quick-draw about that. Might even be a plot point- taking off thinking the GPS is good, only to find yourself hundreds of miles off course when you get to Aus....

[George_Right]

First of all get as many trucks or small emergency Diesel generators to run as You like, then, with the batteries refilled,

But how to start the generators and charge the batteries? Using solar panels from the nearest building which have ones? Will they provide enough power?
I think there should be some emergency generators in a big airport, but I am not sure, and I don't think they can be hand-started. A hospital definitely has emergency power, but again, I don't think it can be hand-started...

the GPS constellation needs constant calibration to maintain its accuracy, so don't be too quick-draw about that. Might even be a plot point- taking off thinking the GPS is good, only to find yourself hundreds of miles off course when you get to Aus....

An error that great in just several months? Are you sure? Anyway, we know our position on the ground (the airport) and we can check the GPS accuracy. If we cannot re-adjust it (I don't think we can), we can at least keep the error in mind to correct the course.

[Davef68]

Get horses to pull the fuel trucks

[dazdaz1]

Problem is, would the pilot start complaining about the excessive duty flying hours without rest periods? :E

[EEngr]

A properly maintained small generator (5 kW) will start easily after a couple of months. With a stabilizer in the fuel and a half dozen pulls on its cord, mine started after siting for a year in storage. From there its trickle chargers or maybe even a rapid charger to get cars and trucks running.

EMP won't be a problem for electronics that is powered down when the pulse strikes. Its not the EMP energy itself that breaks down solid state devices, its the normal power source that does the damage after the pulse field exceeds the insulation withstand voltage of solid state junctions. That said, many engine controllers are continuously powered even when the vehicle is turned off to maintain processor state information. Things like cockpit clocks are also hot off the battery and may have to be changed.