Qantas retro livery 737

[John Eacott]

I haven't seen this posted elsewhere: due in service in a week or so?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2Dz_RZCAAAarT8.jpg

[Fliegenmong]

That is a peculiar scheme on a 737....I'm guessing the last time that was seen was when the Rat was an exclusively 747 (Classic) fleet?

[SOPS]

I like it!

[34R]

Looks awesome.

Was the SP the smallest airframe that livery had seen in the past?

[Fris B. Fairing]

What a splendid choice. This scheme appeared on the 707, 747 and DC-4. Note that the kangaroo has wings and no club feet. All we need now is a retro CEO and board.

[34R]

Of course! Thanks Fris B

[TWT]

Live Business News | Stock Market & Company News | Business Now (http://businessnow.theaustralian.com.au/)

4th item from the top of page

[Fliegenmong]

Was the SP the smallest airframe that livery had seen in the past?

I reckon so 34 R, on VH-EAA & VH-EAB.....EAA flew into OOL on 25th Jan 1981, whilst I never got down to OOL to see it on the ground.......I can still see it in my memory as it flew along the Coast on a long final approach......:{

A few years after that I remember it (or may have been EAB) on the tarmac over where DHL are at BNE nowadays.....our family had a late afternoon departure in June to TSV, HNL and on to LAX ...... happy memories....and a wonderful aircraft :ok: ...even if it were a little stout and ugly....

[missy]

TSV, HNL and on to LAX
I remember Cairns > Honolulu, don't recall Townsville > Honolulu.

Anyway, nice livery.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Bloody LUVLY!!!!

And I too agree with Mr Fris B.......

Cheers :ok:

[Shot Nancy]

I like it.
MAS have a retro scheme on a 737 at the moment. I wonder who came first?

[Fliegenmong]

Bloody LUVLY!!!!

Ummm...well, nostalgic...but that Ochre stripe was never an appealing colour.....symbolic.....but far from 'LUVLY'....must say I always preferred the winged rat....

[JetRacer]

That B737 looks great!

I'd like to see a B717 in this scheme:

http://m6.i.pbase.com/o1/05/686005/1/139939076.qAbZvG6u.TAADC930HBARF0912.jpg


and a B737 in this one!

http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/TAA/TAA%20B737-300%20VH-TAF%2019871205.jpg

:ok:

[Fliegenmong]

AGREED JetRacer!!!! :D:D

[Capt Claret]

I'd like to see B717s with integral stairs, particularly the aft ones.

[ANCDU]

The B737 looks great! Sad to believe but I think this is the last new B737 to be delivered to QANTAS, and also the last new aircraft off the order books for QF mainline. No firm new aircraft orders left for QANTAS mainline.

I wonder if the future for Qantas will be single aisle A320NEO? Some of the oldest 738's are starting to show their age.

[moa999]

Agree the retro scheme looks great, albeit sadly (like Aer Lingus) they didn't go bare metal for the lower half (or the engines)

Compare to this SP pic:
VH-EAA Boeing 747SP (http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-747/vh-eaa/4630.210.html)

ANCDU,
With the 320neo performance versus 737MAX, and potential oversupply for Jetstar (particularly if Asia continues to stay with static aircraft numbers and Hong Kong isn't approved) would not be surprised to see a 320 in Red.

That said oldest 738 is 2002 delivery (the order AA cancelled after 9/11) and an internal refurb project begins next year, so suspect it will be a while before they are replaced.

[PW1830]

The DC4's were painted in this livery. The HS125 as well.
737 would be third smallest!

[34R]

VH-EAG Boeing 707 (http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-707q/vh-eag/4604.335.html)

Nice one of the 707

[BNEA320]

catch is this old scheme might remind people how old the QF fleet is, although think they have not gotten rid of all 733's & 734's are are some being used as freighters in Australia ? or by Airwork in New Zealand ?

[Fris B. Fairing]

PW1830

Sadly the HS125s never carried the ochre scheme. This is the final scheme carried by VH-ECE at retirement in 1981:

http://www.adastron.com/707/qantas/vh-ece-2.jpg

VH-ECF was sold in 1972 and never carried this scheme.

[Al E. Vator]

Wow that cheat-line looks really good. I used to think that each successive scheme was better than the last but that looks pretty fine and will really stand out from the masses.

Another distinguished scheme was this one:

http://www.aussieairliners.org/electras/vh-tla/1808.188l.jpg

http://museumvictoria.com.au/image.jpg?bfa=1&crop=0&maxwidth=600&maxheight=600&image=329551

However I highly doubt Qantas would ever concede to anything other than 'Qantas' being displayed on the side of an aircraft. TAA it seems has been relegated into oblivion.

As Fris B. mentioned, a sensible (non-Boston School of Consulting or Irish equivalent) retro board would be wonderful.

Of particular note: Qantas’ chief financial officer Gareth Evans has written an opinion piece for The Age, in which he says the airline won’t be conceding any of its 65 per cent market share to Virgin.

“Imagine someone saying Woolworths should start closing stores in response to the threat from Coles,” he said.

“Anyone who advocates this kind of approach simply does not understand the way business works.

We plan to keep improving and strengthening our competitive advantages.”

Qantas has decided 65 per cent is where it’s drawing the line in the sand, convinced it cannot lose this ground to its arch rival Virgin Australia.

So they almost did immediately concede the 65 percent which by his own arrogant words means this man does not understand the way business works!

It beggars belief these people are running Qantas. With such blatant acts of stupidity evident what goes on that we don't hear about?

[John Eacott]

Apparently the 737-800 is due for delivery to Qantas/arrival in Australia next Wednesday, 19th November.

[Australopithecus]

The share of the market that an enterprise enjoys has always been the prerogative of the market. Even my teenage kids know that, FFS. If a chain was run by idiots insisting on keeping a thousand unpatronised stores open would they still have 65% market share? They'd certainly have the lion's share of the costs, but not so much for revenue.

Gareth is an empty suit. Anyone who has survived the last ten years of fawning acquiescence to a failed strategy is, by definition, equally wanting in both the courage and foresight departments.

[C441]

Sadly the HS125s never carried the ochre scheme. This is the scheme they carried at retirement:

Even sadder, some years ago the weather had reduced ECE to this:

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag269/Windyhill84/IMG_0147_zpsc8be88be.jpg

[FrogNtoad]

For the young one who don't know.

The 2 x HS125's were only used for Pilot training. Jet Conversion before sim's became the norm and the odd pleasure flight for the then Directors but predominately for Pilot training and were painted in the original penny kangaroo red colours - TILL one dark and stormy day at Avalon when EBB, I think it was EBB, one of the classic jumbo, was doing training at Avalon touch and goes, had a close encounter of the ramp when taxiing and was close to taxiing over the top of one. That's when they were painted ORANGE - Not pretty but very visible.

[Feather #3]

For the record, the -SP did go TSV-HNL prior to [basically] moving long-haul stops to CNS.

G'day ;)

[VH-Cheer Up]

I flew in one of the two SPs VH-EAA twice, SFO-HNL (1982, they had just invented business class and it was downstairs at the very front) and SYD-LAX nonstop (1984, I think, by this time first class had been moved downstairs).

[Fris B. Fairing]

I have just corrected my post #22 to show that only VH-ECE carried the orange scheme. VH-ECF was sold in 1972.

FrogNtoad

It was my understanding that the orange scheme was to make the aeroplane more visible during radar tracking exercises under contract to the military although your explanation is equally feasible.

For more info on the HS125s (http://www.adastron.com/707/qantas/hs125.htm)

If anyone knows the current owner of VH-ECE, please lean on him to do the right thing with this aeroplane. Pick a museum - any museum.

Rgds

[C441]

That photo and a number of others were taken at The Oaks, near Camden. (Not by me.) A quick look at Google Earth suggests it's still there.

I believe it was owned by an ex-Flight Engineer but that was years ago.

It would be nice to see it restored to something of it's former state and perhaps parked in Longreach.

[AerialPerspective]

Hi 34R,
My Dad worked for QF (or should I say EM and then they changed to QF) for 32 years.
He joined the year before they got the B707-138 and left a year or so after the B747-438s arrived. When he joined their round-the-world service originated and terminated at Essendon with L1049 Super Constellations.
Point being, for all that time my Mum collected Qantas News so they basically have every edition (including the one announcing my birth) up until recently (thanks to ex QF colleagues who still drop in and see him). I was there for 12 years or so.
Anyway, there was a poster in the QF News of a B747 in this livery in about '68, a month before a B707 V-Jet which I took to school and never got back (damn). Other than that the collection is complete and they also have old 'In Flight Guides'. This livery was decided on (allegedly) in 1967 but not applied until the first B747-238B arrived in '71. It was then quickly applied to a B707 (VH-EAG I think, then the rest of the fleet). In one of the In Flight Guides is a B707 V-Jet and on the next page a B747-138 (complete with 3 windows on upper deck) in a livery with black radome, thick red cheat line and a red tail with a winged kangaroo in a white circle!! They must have decided a new scheme was timely but they left that re-touched (presumably Pan Am) 747-100 in the guide for quite some time.
Hence, the aircraft that featured this livery were indeed the B707-338C, B747-238B, B747-238M, B747-SP-38 (with window shade red 'SP' in between QANTAS and Australia and white 'SP' on the top of the tail) and the DC-4 - the HS125s also had a 'version' of this, with the stripe at the base of the windows. I believe as there were different ground equipment requirements for the SP (e.g. no Bulk Hold door) this was done so Ground Staff would know at a glance it was an SP from a distance or in a line of tails.
I remember in one of the QANTAS News Staff papers there is a photograph from about '71 of a B707-338C outside the hangar at the Jetbase with the heading "A 707 with a 747 look about it!" (the article described how the B707 fleet would be progressively re-painted to ensure a consistent corporate look.
There is a photo I have somewhere of a model in Aircraft Magazine with a B767-238ER in the ochre livery (a few years before there was one in the Ansett delta livery too) however these were delivered in the Lunn design.
From B747-338EUD (QANTAS eschewed 'SUD' because it stood for 'Sudden Unexplained Death in ER terms, preferring 'Extended Upper Deck' to 'Stretched Upper Deck') the Lunn group wingless kangaroo featured. It started to slowly appear on B747-238Bs, the -SPs and then the Combis over the next few years. When I started there was a mixed livery in the fleet, one SP in wingless and one in winged. The 'SP' titles were dropped with the new livery.
The B767-238ERs were delivered in the new livery. A year or so after the EUD arrived 'THE SPIRIT OF AUSTRALIA' was added under the windows below 'QANTAS'.
QF operated a B747-100 for a few years (VH-EEI) a B747-123 I believe, so ex AA originally) but it never got painted in QF Livery but spent it's life with QF in FJ colours. I always thought it'd be neat to paint it in the QF livery or do a 'fantasy retro' with it in the livery from the Flight Guide!.
Anyway, I seem to have strayed off the point but there you go, that's the history from what I can glean.
Incidentally, the only error I can see on the new one (except for no bare metal) is that the rego should be white and on the cheat line but the windows and the portion aft of the rear door don't allow for that as they did on the 707s.
I wouldn't have called it James Strong. I would have called it 'Ron Yates' and then done a T-Jet livery on an A330-200 or 717 and called it James Strong. JS at one stage wanted the name to be 'Australian' and did his best to expunge a lot of good practices at QF just because they were QF so just don't think it's appropriate. One thought was that they may have done it because he ordered the 737s at TN?

[AerialPerspective]

Yes and no.
During strikes - most notably the ATC Strike in '73 or '74 the HS-125 was used to ferry Management from SYD.
In a QANTAS News from that period there is a lone B707-338C at the JetBase (it was the ONLY aeroplane at SYD at that time).
I remember my Dad telling way back (I'll confirm it with him) that this was the LAST B707-338C to depart SYD at that time and ferried Ramp, Passenger Handling, Load Control and Flight Ops Staff to MEL which became the busiest airport in Australia for a period of time.
Aircraft would arrive in MEL, be unloaded, then the Engineers had organised a system of towing them to taxiways in a departure order arrangement. So once a gate became available, they would tow the next one up, depart it, tow the next one and so on. This went on for a month apparently or more. Flights would come into MEL, people would clear customs, collect bags, walk to a bus, then go direct to Spencer St Station (now Southern Cross) and travel on to SYD via Daylight or Southern Aurora to SYD - I think they even had QF 'Flight' numbers - e.g. the train in the morning would 'operate' the MELSYD leg of QF6 or QF8. I remember Dad did a cartoon (he is also a cartoonist) of a VicRail Interstate Train painted red with "QANTAS - Australia's Round-The-World Railway" on the side!!!

[AerialPerspective]

They did invent Business Class - it was in 1979 though. They had decided to put seats in the upper deck and someone with imagination asked around and found that either TN or AN had a surplus of DC-9 First Class seats because they'd over ordered so QF bought the lot (they were brand new), fitted them with QF seat fabric and installed them - calling it 'Business Class'.
Other airlines (such as Pan Am) claimed this but it WAS Qantas undisputedly that did this first.
A bit more of this innovative 'retro' thinking - which also led to life rafts on all aircraft world-wide, another Qantas innovation, would be welcome now days.

[AerialPerspective]

Al E Vator.

Too true. All the innovative QF Management got tossed out and replaced with cronies after the reverse take-over. One of these cronies even had to resign for directing QF paid consulting work to his own company!

Re the Retro - They could always do what US Airways did (before the AA/US Merger) and - for example - paint an aircraft in PSA Livery except have US Air on the side.

I think that it would be fine to paint the T-Jet Livery but instead of TAA put QANTAS in Blue in the TAA typeface, put TAA but have Qantas worked in in a lighter shade or just put Trans-Australia Airlines after the Word Qantas.

People would understand I think that it's a Qantas aircraft. You might get the occasional yank complaining - as happened a few times with the Air Pacific Aircraft that was actually owned and operated initially by QANTAS and was always operated and crewed by QF when it was operating QF17/18.

2016 would be the year to do this as it will be the 70th anniversary of TAA.

[Stanwell]

AerialPerspective,
Thanks so much for those posts.
Your recollections have filled in quite a few gaps for me.

I don't know who was responsible for organising the Qantas retro paintjob but I dips me lid to him!

[Captain Gidday]

See, wait long enough and Legacy becomes Retro!

DC-4. Norfolk Island. 1976.

http://www.stephencodrington.com/Aviation/Flights_Log/Pages/1970s_files/Media/004_norf21_242_cd2074_img0024/004_norf21_242_cd2074_img0024.jpg?disposition=download

The DC-4, by the way, had exactly the same wingspan as the 737-800. [Within a few cms].

[Reflex10]

Gee wiz, flew on the HS125 many years ago HBA SYD!
Regards
Barry

[Going Boeing]

If memory serves me correctly, the Flight Engineer who bought the HS125 (sans engines) was Graeme Onus. It's a shame that he wasn't able to restore it.

[Maxmotor]

Stanwell actually it might have been a dedicated employee that made the suggestion to do a retro scheme a number of years ago but it was knocked on the head at the time.

Apparently the lower fuse is not in the natural metal finish as it voids the Boeing warranty in regards to corrosion.

[Flava Saver]

Maxmotor, just an observation, so how has American Airlines got away with the natural metal finish all these years on their 737's then if that's the case?

[Maxmotor]

Flava i didnt receive the information from Boeing but an engineer.As with any item if you modify it from factory standard you might pay more for your insurance and American might have been in this position.Perhaps their current scheme reflects the change.

Maybe you might know why Americans A300,s never wore the natural metal scheme.

[Pinky the pilot]

A bit late into the thread but concur with SOPS.:ok: (Post #3)

[Capn Bloggs]

Maybe you might know why Americans A300,s never wore the natural metal scheme.
The plastic bits can't be polished? :)

[AerialPerspective]

My pleasure.
My ex QF colleagues always say "How do you remember all this stuff". I guess like a lot of people here, aviation is our business.
I truly was a child of Qantas, family friends, social occasions, etc. always had a Qantas tinge to them and they were great times.
I have lots of other knowledge of QF over the years as I was an avid lover of aeroplanes when I was a kid. I inherited some of my Dad's drawing talent and I remember him saying to someone at a party one day "My son loves the 747, he did a drawing the other day and while it was obviously a child's drawing, he had every damn antenna and feature included".
I've had some great times over the years. Probably would never have flown on BA but we went to NAN in 1971 and were staying with the Qantas APM. We were coming back as luck would have it on the last day what you might call 'ghetto blasters" now were not subject to duty. When Cassette players and the like were gaining popularity there was almost a competition amongst manufacturers to make them as big as possible but put a handle on the top so they qualified as 'portable' and thus not subject to duty!
Anyway, we were offloaded from the Qantas flight (which of course was a B707) and after some 'pulling of strings' we came back on BOAC the next day (they used to fly the pacific to LHR via JFK, LAX, etc. in those days as well as west-bound to the UK from Australia).
Anyway, it was a treat!! The aircraft was a Vickers Super VC-10. I didn't travel on BA again for a few years (by which time it was British Airways) from MEL to PER in 1976. The B747-136 had BA Titles but a Dark Blue Cheat Line and tail with a gold Speedbird!!
However, I've always been pleased we got offloaded so I could say I flew on a VC-10!!

[tdracer]

Maybe you might know why Americans A300,s never wore the natural metal scheme.


At the time, I was told it was because the aluminum alloys that Airbus used on the A300 didn't have the same corrosion resistance as the alloys Boeing used, and hence Airbus needed to be painted.


American's 777s use the same polished aluminum scheme, the plastic bits (such as the vertical tail) are simply painted grey.

[Liffy 1M]

American's 777s use the same polished aluminum scheme, the plastic bits (such as the vertical tail) are simply painted grey.

The new American livery has a painted silver-grey fuselage.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3918/14413241167_7e846e2195_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nXDCs4)N727AN Boeing 777-323ER (https://flic.kr/p/nXDCs4) by Irish251 (https://www.flickr.com/people/24101413@N03/), on Flickr

[Rotor Work]

I was lucky this morning to watch the new machine depart Adelaide, what a fantastic sight.
I remember at an air show in years past, watching a TAA 727 conduct a low pass at high speed down the flight line, can anyone add to that, location etc.
Regards R W

[Keg]

The first Avalon airshow in about late '92 featured a very low, very fast flypast of a 727. Not sire if that's the one youre referring to. :D

[Tankengine]

Rob McCubbin.:ok:

[evansb]

What, no V-Jet? Now that was a strikingly simple, yet attractive scheme. Never a fan, (no pun intended), of the 'ochre' cheat line. Looked like the original red had oxidized. It clashed, not contrasted with, the red tail marking and title.

[evansb]

These QANTAS schemes are aesthetically unappealling: (kinda yucky)
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/527055e99a5c4b27814d657d767f2254-qantas-boeing-jet-aboriginal-dreamtime-livery-Mendoowoorji-1500b_zpse651acae.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/52490471d7944397841444b7767f2254-qantas-747-dreaming-craig-murray_zpseb97631e.jpg

[Keg]

Wunala was freaking awesome. It invariably got mentions from other airline crew in LAX or LHR when I operated it.

[V-Jet]

Agreed Keg.

Even if it happened just because it was left unattended in a Redfern carpark overnight:)

Going Boeing:
I understand the Engineer bought it (the 125) for the avionics that were worth far more than the airframe - Qantas realised too late to stop the sale and he had quite a 'win'.... So legend has it anyway.

[blueloo]

Wunula was fantastic. The rest of the art works - from the vomit comet to the varicose vein have been pretty ordinary. The retro 737 is great, but that colour scheme should be on a 747.

[IsDon]

Or a 787.

It would look fantastic on that.

Of course also create a great connection between past and future, as opposed to past and present.

[V-Jet]

One could question the need for the word 'Australia' on a domestic jet.. Maybe a staff suggestion to save some paint?? Lenny Czxxxxx (could never spell it) got $1500 for coming up with 'Longreach' - who knows what someone might get for an initiative of this type!

[TWT]

I liked Wunala much more than Nalanji.The blue clashed with the red on the tail.

[ASY68]

I think wunala will go down in history as one of the best paints ever.

When I was at JFK a few years ago, I saw it land while waiting for a VRD flight, it gave me both a sense of aussie pride and homesickness :)

[Rotor Work]

Keg, you may have been right with Avalon Air Show for the 727 fly past.
Wunala landed at Hobart for an airport open day back in the late 80's or Early 90's, that was a good sight.