Unsatted instrument checkride....

[mikerohren]

Hello all, this is my first post here and I am pretty much asking what the repercussion's of the above action will have on my flying career... Basically I got to the very end of my check ride and though that I was golden, but ended up in a tricky situation... I was told to expect the ILS 21L into KPRC but not cleared so I was supposed to hold at the CRADI fix, the DME at prescott is currently out of service but that was not really my problem. I was flying in a cessna with the g1000 so I loaded the approach just as a back up and elected to fly the approach and hold just using the localizer to show that I wasn't dependent on gps. Anyways, the gps asked me if I wanted to do the procedure turn, and I said no, thinking that I wasn't doing the procedure turn, I was doing the hold, that was my first mistake... I entered the hold correctly and started timing, but then the instructor asked me how I knew I was abeam CRADI, long story short, I was not able to explain how I knew I was abeam CRADI, as well as a few other mistakes, and I unsatted holds... I elected to continue the checkride inbound and execute my final item which was a precision approach... All and all, I passed everything in the check ride except for holds, so now I have to do one or more flights with my instructor and then go out and do a hold and possibly anything thing the check instructor feels necessary. I guess the question I am asking, is 1. how do I know I am abeam a fix when there is no gps and 2. How will this come back to haunt me for lack of a better word?... Thank you for your help in advance....

[Genghis the Engineer]

how do I know I am abeam a fix when there is no gps

Years since I flew from Prescott, and I never flew any approaches or holds there, but....


Looking at the US AIP plates you've got three options there. ILS, LOC/DME, or RNAV(GPS). The LOC/DME plate shows two DME options for CRADI; 16.4DME on I-PRC, which presumably is the one that's U/S; but you've also got 16DME on DRK, which I assume was working?

So presumably you'd be centred on I-PRC, using a DME on DRK, then initiate a rate 1 turn right when you get 16DME, then after 1 minute, you should be rolled out on 028 (+/- wind) and parallel the fix? A quick ruler on the chart would also give you a DME reading from DRK for the parallel point, although it's going to be near as dammit 16 looking at the chart geometry.


Or fly the RNAV procedure !




Will it come back to haunt you? No idea, but probably only if you go for a job with a particularly picky airline who want first time passes in everything. They exist, but only a few I understand.

[mikerohren]

Thank you for your answer! I now realize that if I would just activated the procedure turn when I was inbound off the 042 radial I would have been instrument rated... The sad part is that I could have just told my check instructor that I was starting the time at wings level... Unfortunately, he told me that the way I was executing the hold was satisfactory, but on top of everything else I was doing wrong, in the process of trying to figure out how I could tell I was abeam the fix while turning in the hold I was timing my outbound to one minute, when in reality we had a decent headwind so the inbound was consistently shorter then one minute.... Anyways, I appreciate your input, hope that I will be instrument rated soon, because I know I am qualified!

[mikerohren]

I appreciate your response, and apparently every response I give on here must be approved by a moderator. I asked my check pilot "what if I had just said I started the timer when I rolled level?" and he said that would have queried more questions... I attempted to use drk radial 042 and 16 dme from, but that just yeilded cradi which I was already pressing direct enter enter for situational awareness at that point... I guess my main question is how do you determine you are abeam a fix in a hold to start accurate timing?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Don't worry about having your posts moderated - every new user gets that for the first few posts until it's clear that they're a human being only posting about aviation, then the moderators stop worrying and leave you alone.

As your fix isn't defined by a beacon (over here we'd usually use an NDB for a fix like that, which is easy - when the needle points at your right wingtip, you're abeam!), in my opinion your primary knowledge comes from accurate flying and timing. BUT, the DRK VOR/DME could be used on your no.2 box to give you a cross check.

Probably! I'm a pretty average instrument pilot myself, so possibly somebody else will have a better answer. I just enjoy looking at the problems.