View Full Version : Large old 4 x 4 advice

8th Nov 2014, 10:05
I am currently running a '73 Rand Lover Series 3 as, basically, a builder's truck - we are extending a bungalow for retirement. We have been using a Fraud Mundaneo for daily use and to tow a caravan.

I am concerned that the Fraud's pulling power is marginal for the 'van and would like to tow it with the truck. However SWMBO doesn't like riding in the Landy - it's cold, rattly, uncomfortable and slow. So I want to change it for something I can tow the 'van with, maybe take 4/5 people from a campsite to the pub, but still suitable for towing the builders trailer (3500kg) and chucking cement, bricks, tools etc. in the back on normal days.

As it will be getting harsh treatment (in my terms that means knackered) I don't want to spend too much so I'm looking for something late '90s or early '00s, probably a Discovery, Shogun, Landcruiser or similar.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, especially on reliabilty and fuel costs.

Lon More
8th Nov 2014, 10:09
a newer Landy? You answered your own question

8th Nov 2014, 10:10
One member on here has (or had) a Jeep (not the WWII version, but an 'estate car' type).

Windy Militant
8th Nov 2014, 10:13
Get a Toyota Hi Lux crew cab, A mate had one almost indestructible and 100,00 jihadists can't be wrong! ;)

SMT Member
8th Nov 2014, 10:15
If you want something bullet proof, yet still retaining a level of comfort and being affordable, your only options are a Nissan Patrol or a Toyota Landcruiser. There's a very good reason all the white 4x4's you seen on the telly in hot and sandy places, are as near as always one of the two.

I'd go for the 'cruiser, fitted with a big bored, short stroked, diesel engine of more than suitable displacement.

8th Nov 2014, 10:27
Get a Toyota Hi Lux crew cabYup, but even better do what I did 3 years ago faced with precisely the same problem; Series 3, disgruntled wife, long trip to do (boat, not caravan). At the time I had a diesel Mondeo which would have towed OK but I didn't want to dunk its back end in the sea every now and again.

I sold the Landy for £1500 (it was errr.....neglected) and bought a 1998 Landcruiser Colorado for £2,300, 85,000 miles, short wheelbase, 3 litre diesel. It's manual, no frills, no AC. It does 23 mpg with the boat on the back.

It was as new, and it's bulletproof. It's comfortable, great heater, nice radio that you can hear, opening roof, and with the back seats folded away has a huge capacity even though a SWB. It barely notices the 1.5 Tonne boat/trailer on the back. I use 4WD/Diff lock to heave the boat up a slippery launching ramp if I need to. Try that in a Landy.

In short, it does everything the Landy would do and more, it never ever goes wrong, and I recommend it!

PS...I think that's what the last poster said, more or less.

8th Nov 2014, 10:30
Landcruiser...no question. Indestructible off and on road and comfortable to ride in. Toyota relability and pArts are easy to get. If you can afford the petrol in the UK, auto, V8 is the ducks guts.

8th Nov 2014, 10:31
"Ford"Ranger 2.5 turbo .Used mine to tow a 1 1/2 ton boat and it was superb,and comfortable.

Lon More
8th Nov 2014, 10:37
If you want something bullet proof, yet still retaining a level of comfort

Maybe not bulletproof, but you certainly wouldn't be on the receiving end of any road rage - unless there was a Predator nearby'

8th Nov 2014, 11:09
a newer Landy? You answered your own question

The disco was my first thought, but on hols last week a mate told me his bezzzer had had loads of trouble with them. This week another mate who had originally set up the "Highway Patrol" for the DoT said they ordered 3 models of 4 x 4 for the first batch - all Japanese - the Disco was Discounted because of reliabilty issues, although they have recently dropped one of the imports for the Disco 3.

One attraction of the Disco - buying second hand and therefore having to take what comes - as that they will ALL tow 3500 kg. A lot of the others have been bought as "Chelsea Tractors" with more regard to trim than performance, and there are a lot of the smaller-engined varieties around with 2000 - 2500 kg capacity only, meaning time wasted in checking them out.

8th Nov 2014, 12:13
My son bought a used Disco, about 5 years old, fairly low mileage.

18 months later he sold it for scrap value. It had been off the road for at least 3 months in that period. As soon as one problem was expensively fixed, another one arose.

Quite apart from that, when it did work it was useless as a utility vehicle. Poor at towing, bad on any terrain worse than a good, prepared track. Its only viable role is urban transport, weekend transport to the second home but no further, and the school run, for well-off metro-posers. IE, the Chelsea Tractor of choice.

Be warned!

Yamagata ken
8th Nov 2014, 12:21
Long wheelbase GQ Nissan Patrol. The 4.2 litre diesel, gearbox and rear axle are all derived from a light truck. Industrial strength, won't break and excellent for towing. Coil sprung, so ride is acceptable (much better than any LandRover), and they steer and handle quite nicely. Interior isn't as posh as an equivalent Land Cruiser, but the seats are more comfortable, and they don't suffer from the same degree of roll steer.

In my previous life as an exploration geologist, I've done months of serious off-roading. I've covered most of remote Australia in 4WDs, both Toyota and Nissan. The Nissan's flat interior surfaces aren't as organic/friendly as the Land Cruiser, but they give you somewhere to put your maps/sarnies/flask of tea. When the apocalypse comes, I'll take a diesel GQ over anything else, thank you very much.

Yamagata ken
8th Nov 2014, 12:37
This one.

http://i62.tinypic.com/143gj2t.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/25texhx.jpg

8th Nov 2014, 13:28
I've owned my Jeep Commander for over two years now - Mercedes 3.0 diesel lump in the front - love it! 30mpg, which for its size etc is acceptable. The only problem is that I rarely see it as it disappears most days with Mrs TBF at the wheel.

Go back to a Solihull product - no chance!

JGS Muzzy has a Mitsubishi crew cab - but it really is a truck - the Jeep is an excellent road vehicle, fast cruiser, comfortable - oh yes! has all the toys I need, and tows as if nothing is there.

Chrysler like to charge for spares - and some - but NOS suppliers deal with that.

They are fairly rare to find and dropping down the price scale, so go and have a look if you can find one

8th Nov 2014, 13:33
The posh crowd down here in the flatlands drive Jeeps, Range Rovers, and various Japanese things.

But up in the mountains the dwellers all use Land Rovers, because they don't break, except when they do you can repair them at the roadside with a spanner and a large rock. And you can get Santana or Landy spares in 24 hours. And any local garage can weld them back together.

8th Nov 2014, 14:11
Something like this?


AVAILABLE IN12 COLORSDeep Cherry Red Crystal Pearl BIG HORN®

8th Nov 2014, 14:49
It depends whether you want a 'posemobile', complete with leather-wrapped steering wheel and candy-apple colours to please the missus or something that will do the job competently, comfortably and reliably.

Who is going to be driving, maintaining and paying for it - you or the missus?

I, like Yamagata ken, have a bit of experience with 4WDs.
Forget about the Solihull products (I used to work for them and indeed have a soft spot for them) - but pragmatism dictates Nissan or Toyota.

Reading between your lines and considering you are buying 'used', I would recommend a V6 powered Hi-Lux for the needs you have described.
Otherwise Nissan Patrol or Toyota LandCruiser Diesels.

Keep the missus away from second-hand car dealers and let's know what you finally decide on.

8th Nov 2014, 14:56
I have a 1995 Vauxhall Monterey 3.1TD, which is to all intents and purposes an Isuzu Trooper. We have had it for a five years and about 40000 miles in which time it has been virtually trouble free (current mileage is 121000). Mine has a manual gearbox & seven seats.

For some reason towing figures differ for the Monterey and Trooper, even with the same body and engine, with Parkers Guide giving braked towing weights of 2600kg and 3300kg respectively. Certainly towing a five door Pajero on a four wheeled trailer was no problem at all for the Monterey. Later Troopers with the 3.0D engine can tow 3500kg, although the engine is generally considered inferior to its 3.1 predecessor.

I also look after a 1993 Isuzu Trooper and three Mitsubishi Pajero Mk1s at a gliding club. These are all automatics which had been imported used from Japan. As imports, they all had high specifications with stuff like heated seats and adjustable springing on the drivers sear for cross country use.

One important consideration is that if you go to a council tip with a pickup or a van you may be tuned away or made to pay trade rates. A Trooper or Pajero will be treated as a private car.

If you drive the Monterey carefully it will give 30 to 35mpg.

The Pajeros can be prone to head gasket issues and crankshaft front pulleys coming loose. The 2.5 diesel is considered more robust than the 2.8. max braked towing weight is 3300kg.

Both Troopers and Pajeros have excellent owners club forums which I have found very helpful. Parts for both are available from Milners Offroad (new)or eBay (new & used) at very reasonable prices.

Pajero Owners Club: www.pocuk.com/forums/ (http://www.pprune.org/www.pocuk.com/forums/)

Isuzu Trooper Owners Club: Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™ :: Index (http://www.itocuk.co.uk/forums/)

Do take a good look underneath,as the older Pajeros can be prone to rust in the rear chassis. A lot have been used by boat owners and for towing horse boxes. Backing into the sea and driving through manure covered yards take their toll. If you can find one which hasn't ever had a tow bar fitted, its likely to have had an easier life.

Lon More
8th Nov 2014, 15:02
wouldn't mind one like this.http://www.adrianstomcat.co.uk/Military/PinkPanther01-02.jpg
Stay away from the 0ne-tonners depicted in the background unless your ankles are directly attatched to your knees.

I don't often have to tow more than about 1.5 tons these days. When the new Evoque came out I went and had a look. It was all you could expect from a vehicle supposedly "styled" by one of the Spice Girls. I had a play with a Disco, judgement was reserved, it just didn;t feel right somehow. Eventually bought a Skoda Yeti, a soft roader but it's proven itself remarkably competent off road. More tooters and bells than the Disco and about half the price it does everything i want of it. If I really have to get down and mucky there's always John Deere or a Unimog to be borrowed.

8th Nov 2014, 20:18
Love my series II, but am looking forward to the advent of a half ton truck with a real Diesel engine. Have heard that Toyota and Nissan are both planning one, but our nanny regs have kept everyone else at bay.

Yamagata ken
9th Nov 2014, 05:48
Just another note on the GQ Patrol. There is a version with a 2.8 litre turbo diesel. They have slightly better performance than the 4.2, are a fair bit lighter, and I prefer driving them to the 4.2. They have a nice step up in power when the turbo comes in. They are also cheaper than the 4.2s. The downside is the gearbox, which is derived from one of the ZXs, rather than a truck. I've never heard of anyone having problems with the 2.8, but the Ozzies doing super-heavy duty towing go past them in favour of the 4.2.

Solid Rust Twotter
9th Nov 2014, 07:03
Toyota HiLux double (crew) cab or the Isuzu equivalent for something a bit cheaper. I'd avoid Nissan. Not as reliable as the Toyota and most you see out here in the kangene are in poor condition as they seem to be a bit soft. In fact, you don't really see that many for just that reason.

Land Cruiser pickup might also do the trick but they're heavier on fuel. Not even sure they make a double cab version.

Buster Hyman
9th Nov 2014, 07:44
a newer Lady? You answered your own question
Fixed it for you. :ok:

9th Nov 2014, 07:56

SAS desert patrol Landy, nice.

9th Nov 2014, 08:21
just been pulling a 5 ton trailer around off/on road in snow with a Mitsubishi L200.

Did most of my off road in various forms of landy from 1 tonnie brick with a V8 to a light weight series 2.

The L200 was pretty good to be honest even though it was automatic. Cab was a double and comfy enough and took 5 with the 3 in the back.

The pickup bit had a hard top and takes a fair bit but is quite high.

Windy Militant
9th Nov 2014, 10:50
Been taking to the Bruv, he's just started doing some more work at a place he'd done a restoration on a few years ago. The Client owns a nearly three year old Disco. When he arrived to measure up for the Job the Disco was being hauled away by the RAC. When he went back to start the job the Disco was being hauled away by the local dealer. A subsequent chat with the groundsman revealed that the thing was constantly breaking down with electrical faults. Apparently they were given a demonstrator on loan while it was in dock and that broke down as well.
looks like Tata have found someone who makes stuff even more unreliable than Uncle Joe Prince of Darkness! :rolleyes:

9th Nov 2014, 11:20
We use a 1986 Jeep Cherokee for a lot of heavy off road work including towing trailers and a water bowser, for a local wildlife trust. There is a Lotus badge on it so I assume they added some bits when it was new. Fantastically reliable.

Buster Hyman
9th Nov 2014, 11:24
Was hauling a trailer filled with rubbish to the tip today in my 2k Disco. Unbraked trailer & you wouldn't even know it was there. Dunno about prices all over, but they're cheap as chips here.

9th Nov 2014, 13:08
Onya, Buster!
Took a 6 foot trailer to the tip - and you got back OK. Well done, mate!

p.s D'yer know WHY they're cheap as chips?

9th Nov 2014, 13:41
Talking to a friend who transports cars round the country on a flatbed transit.

He stopped by VOSA (Road Cops for License / Trucks Weights etc for the non Ukers) and they argued with him regarding a Tacograph, they had already pulled in a Nissan pick up with a trailer and doing the same thing.

He told them that if something has not had a Taco fitted when new there is no legal requirement to have one retro fitted irrspective of what they think.

After 10 minutes of discussion the VOSA guy goes away and gets on the phone to check this out, friend gets all the legal updates so has to know the law.

VOSA guy comes back and apologises as he got it wrong.

Apparently ALL Council Vehicles have one fitted as standard and once fitted legally should not be removed, something to be mindful of when buying.

cockney steve
9th Nov 2014, 14:13
I always thought the straight 6 Nissan Patrol was a great tool,cheap but functional and comfortable.
Landrover= motorised stagecoach. fine if you love tinkering with 1940's designed antiques,but bad news when you're paying 2014 labour-rates.
Disco is a posh L/r....body rot, some parts exhorbitant, the older ones with the mechanical injection pump(diesel) probably the best compromise if you can find one not cluttered with unreliable electric toys.

Late Landcruiser a festering tribute to the bean counter....aircon pipes corroded and leaked on a 3-year old example...(great! complex alloy pipe assembly under the chassis where all the salt gets chucked onto the sweated joints......headlamp bulbs need a contortionist.....Alty likewise, then specialtooling to dismantle it to fit a new rgulator.
lovely interior with a bigtelly screen,suppose it would while away the wait for the tow-truck.
Jeep-some models are heavy drinkers.
Isuzu...some duff engines...research first!

Muchas I loath the Solihull products.....a mechnically -injected, base-model diesel disco is probably best value for money.

A really speculative purchase WHICH NEEDS SECURE STORAGE A late model landrover. There is a buying frenzy as end-of production has been notified. owners have been going out in the morning to find all doors and bonnet missing checkout the obscene prices for these crudities and you'll see why a couple of villains with a power-screwdriver can make over a grand for 10 minutes' "work"

9th Nov 2014, 14:21
Our neighbour had a Dodge truck based horsebox which had a tachograph fitted when she bought it. She said that as she was a private user she did not have to actually use the tachograph though. That appears to still be the case:

Do you need a tachograph? If you tow for your business you do - Fleet News (http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/fleet-legislation-do-you-need-a-tachograph-if-you-tow-for-your-business-you-do/37588/)

It sounds like hazardous territory if you were to use your 4x4 to tow for business purposes though.

9th Nov 2014, 14:28
It sounds like hazardous territory if you were to use your 4x4 to tow for business purposes though.

If she sold a horse and was transporting it to a new owner then no doubt VOSA would say she is in business.

A really tricky area.

9th Nov 2014, 14:50
Isn't there an exemption for 'dual-purpose' vehicles (ie 4x4s)?

9th Nov 2014, 15:26
G-CPTN, The primary exemption from needing a tachograph for trade use appears to be if you are carrying the tools of your trade. E.g. A tree surgeon towing a chipper for his own use would be exempt, whereas someone who traded in chippers towing one to a customer would not.


Private use is exempt provided the train weight towing vehicle + trailer is under 7500kg. However young whippersnappers who took their test after 1997 need to take a separate test to tow a train weight greater than 3500kg. Qualification to do this is indicated by 'B+E' on your driving licence.

9th Nov 2014, 17:17
Jeep-some models are heavy drinkers.

My petrol Cherokee did 12 - 15 mpg. The diesel equivalent was better but some suffered from cylinderhead cracks.

Very good off-road but keeping it pointed in a straight line on the asphalt was something else.

I loved it despite everything.

Buster Hyman
9th Nov 2014, 19:27

The details of the rubbish, which wasn't entirely relevant, was concrete rubble & broken bricks, amongst other things. The point being that mine is a HSE variant that is rather comfortable to ride in.

As for being cheap, yes, they have a reputation but you'll find any make of car will have a horror story or two. Only problem I've has is a need to replace the cats on it, that's all. Service is two years overdue & it purrs like a kitten.

9th Nov 2014, 19:38
Our son is a tree surgeon so is pretty hard on his vehicles. Had an L200 Mitsubishi, comfortable, nice to drive but kept getting stuck and he broke it a lot. It usually had to go to the shop to be repaired, costing lost days and expensive bills.

He now has a Defender 110, tows a seriously big chipper, loads the tipper to the top with woodchip and sets off. It is noisy, uncomfortable, slow and still breaks down every now and again.

Difference is he also has a large hammer which he uses to fix it!! No lost days, he raves about the thing. Now looking for a really good L322 Range Rover to go with it!!

9th Nov 2014, 21:02
Dunno why Discos have such a bad rap.
We had a 2003 Series 2 TDi in NZ - with the BMW 2.5 diesel.
Best car I've ever owned.
Got a right thrashing going sideways in some serious mud up on the Desert Road, went through the sandhills onto the beach at Murawai.
Hauled sproglets up the Mt Hutt Road for ski-ing.
And to squeals of child delight from the third row of dicky seats, would regularly drive right over median strips, gutters, grass verges, up hills, across the centres of roundabouts and pull up filthy outside schools.
And it were British Racing green colour too.
Now I'm driving a frickin' girls-blouse Volvo XC70 in Sydney.
I miss the old girl.

9th Nov 2014, 21:23
For all of the bluster, at least you have the freedom to buy a real landy.

Here, they get confiscated because they lack airbags.

I'd trade you a semi-auto uzi *(which I can way legally own) for a Defender 90.

Metro man
10th Nov 2014, 00:05
I did the desert safari in Dubai last year and every vehicle used was a Landcruiser. For trips deep into the desert only manual Landcruisers are taken.

10th Nov 2014, 04:09
Thanks for expanding on your post #29.
The HSE is indeed well appointed and comfortable.
I hope your luck holds.

Buster Hyman
10th Nov 2014, 05:59

All good. I have edited my sarcasm out.

I guess I could be lucky. I also had an EA Falcon that ran like a dream and it also had a bad rep. I still see many Disco 2's out there so it's not just mine I suppose. Have considered putting it on Gas but have heard some horror story's there...I'll stick with the Petrol I think. Let sleeping dogs lie...

10th Nov 2014, 08:19
Steve - thanks for the input. I am gradually coming to the same conclusion re the Disco. I agree the Patrol looks a good contender, but only a few variants will pull 3500 kg, and the Landcruiser is very attractive (I noticed on safari they are second only to the Landy in popularity with the drivers we came into contact with) but the ones with the sort of price tag I am prepared to consider have enormous mileage.

This unit has to take a lot of misuse (3-400 kg of bricks, block, cement, scrap iron in the back) and exterior knocks and scratches and will be worth the square root of f*ck-all when I've finished with it. I don't need fancy electronics, just a sound level that doesn't involve shouting at a sensible cruising speed, a decent heater and a ride that leaves your teeth intact at the end. Central locking would be handy - it is a long way to stretch across to release pax door lock. If the vehicle I buy has other gizmos I will use them, and not bother to fix them when they pack up.

I do my own repairs/servicing and the odd bit of MIG work is no problem so if the Disco parts are as cheap and readily available as the S3 ones have been I reckon that's the way I'll go. Still undecided about TD or V8. I have always been a fan of the V8 engine, and we had the Mundaneo converted to LPG a couple of years ago with considerable saving (6 months to break even) and the additional 250 miles range is a bonus when we go north of the border.

10th Nov 2014, 08:23
"Tis a saying in Central Australia that if you want to go bush, get a Landie, if you want to come back, get a Land Cruiser.

That said I have a very soft spot for Landies, a very old and dilapidated Series 2A got me out of a very tight spot one day which involved very deep snow. A Series 3 also did some sterling work but wasn't as good as the 2A. :ok:

10th Nov 2014, 09:58
The 2A's were definitely the best apart from the petrol tanks under the seats.

How it used to get the places it did with those skinny tyres I am sure breaks some laws of physics.

10th Nov 2014, 10:57
Hi Unifox

All this info is UK based.

I definitely agree re the Toyotas. I never buy anything else. My wife is a Toyota mechanic and she certainly has nothing really bad to say about them.
Re the landrovers I agree the earlier Disco 2 is not too bad and on paper has a high towing capacity but the chassis must be getting rusty on them by now.
As for Disco 3. Don't even think about it. I have done a lot of work on these, mostly electrical and in comparison to my Landcruiser they are I would say more refined but way too much electrics, the suspension is electronically controlled, the transmission including transfer box etc etc. You have to have access to a computer to diagnose and repair.
As for Isuzu, STAY AWAY from the later 3.0 D a complete disaster of an engine with serious fuel injection system issues.
Isuzu pickups, soft gearboxes, Ford and Nissan pickups soft engines. Mitsubishi L200 not too bad. Toyota Hilux generally sound. I put over
500,000 k on one of these. The best model of Hilux on a budget is from about 2000 to 2004 when they put the early 2.5 D4D engine in. It had 102bhp and about 300NM so powerful enough without overstressing and blowing up (like a Nissan) .This model also had rear difflock as standard.
The toughest Landcruiser I would say is a Lancruiser 80 from 1990 to 1997 about which has a V8 petrol or straight 6 diesel, full time four wheel drive and front, mid and rear difflock. Live axles front and rear on coils.Good towing capacity.
I always recommend Toyota and people often say but they are dearer.
Theres a reason for that !
In my day job in Kazakhstan If I walk out to the front of the office. It's only Landcruisers in the carpark, dozens of them of all ages.
PS Love the Nissan Patrols too, but no experience with them.

cockney steve
10th Nov 2014, 11:50
he best model of Hilux on a budget is from about 2000 to 2004 when they put the early 2.5 D4D engine in. It had 102bhp and about 300NM so powerful enough without overstressing and blowing up

ISTR the l200 has a tendency to blow head-gaskets.....A friend who is a groundwork contractor, bought one on the East coast, near Hull....He didn't make J22 (Saddleworth Moor) before it boiled up.

I left out Mitsubishi......that's what replaced the L200...big ugly bulbous thing but OK for hauling stuff,off road....Body rot started to show,so it went...now has a coil sprung diesel landrover,put it on a new Galv. chassis and has about 6K in it now...but he's one of the few who get VFM out of these archaic heaps....tows plant-trailer and digger anywhere, but not a long-journey machine!

12th Nov 2014, 00:31
SAS desert patrol Landy, nice.
aka a Pink Panther ...

Had a Hi-Lux Twin Cab once - towed a boat and the sub aqua club and all the gear just about anywhere. Great vehicle. When I worked in the ME, the Landcruiser was known as a RRRV (Range Rover Recovery Vehicle) ...;)

12th Nov 2014, 02:10
.To be fair to the Landys, though...
When, in about '83, we were testing/demonstrating the 110s we'd developed for the Australian Army contract (in fairly rugged country),
we had to help recover accompanying LandCruisers who tried doing what we had just done with 'a minimum of fuss'.

26th Nov 2014, 15:06
I’ve got a 1991 Nissan Patrol SWB with the straight six turbo diesel. It’s coming up for 400,000 km and runs like clockwork. No fancy electronics – only electric windows, airco (which is kaput), plus normal things like fans and wing mirror adjusters. The four wheel drive is manual apart from the diff lock, which is electric. I’ve not towed heavy trailers with it, only a trailer of about 600 kg which had no effect on it. A few hundred kilos of stone or wood inside also has no effect. Fuel consumption is not too bad, but it would be misleading to give it because it spends most of its time on winding mountain roads or tracks in low gears and/or 4WD (I live in the Pyrenees in SW France). There have been some issues that could be expected with a vehicle of this age and usage, brake disks changed, etc. However, the main issue is the cylinder head, which is known here to be prone to warping, probably because it is long and narrow. My Patrol has had two cylinder heads now, one before I bought it (an improved head) and one two years ago mainly due to a coolant leak and abuse on my part. It’s worth checking on the head status if you buy one. It’s more car-like to drive than a Defender, which is more tractor-like though the Defender is doubtless more capable off-road. I considered a Defender, but found them too tiring to drive. I find other JLR products too complicated and suspect on reliability – look up a well known Brit magazine that tests consumer products for their opinion. My Patrol is now starting to grow a bit of rust on the rear wheel arches and sills, which is not too surprising with salted muddy roads in the winter here, so in a few years it will have to go. People here often ask if I would like to sell it to them, so I might take one of them up on it. Anyway, I agree with Yamagata Ken and others who recommend Patrols, Landcruisers or similar 4x4s.
Gyp Barbatus

unstable load
27th Nov 2014, 06:36
A thread along these lines on Pistonheads.....
The one to get, discovery or defender? - PistonHeads (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=91&t=1458896&mid=416053&nmt=The+one+to+get%2C+discovery+or+defender%3F)