Holiday Pay

[Weathergirly]

The holiday pay fiasco has now been ruled on in the employment tribunal and we now know that overtime should be included. Will BALPA be returning to the table with BA?

[gorter]

The devil is in the detail. This ruling only applies to those who are contractually obliged to work overtime. That was clearly stated in all the news outlets. Those who get ad hoc overtime will not be eligible. Secondly the employers have leave to appeal. So no this is not an area for BALPA to negotiate because it does not apply to flight crew.

[wiggy]

So no this is not an area for BALPA to negotiate because it does not apply to flight crew.

This ruling only applies to those who are contractually obliged to work overtime.

I'm no doubt mistaken but that sounds very much like "BA's" Forced Draft to me ....it was in the contract (Bidline) and unless you could get out of it due to exceptional circumstances you sure as heck were required to work it.

That said the papers seem to be saying this is going to appeal, will take years to resolve, and in any event I doubt BALPA has the stomach for another tribunal, so I suspect it's all "moot" anyway.

[Weathergirly]

I am aware that certain UK Airlines (Bmibaby and I think Eastern) were waiting for this judgement before agreeing any holiday pay claims. Would it not of been sensible to follow their lead instead of exercising impatience and agreeing to a reduced settlement? Feeling short changed😞

[WX Man]

WX Girly- are you my long lost sister? :)

Re BMIbaby and Eastern, what would constitute "contractually obliged" to work overtime?

Would this be: rostered until 15:00 but you're contractually obliged to operate a flight back to base, and you get back at 16:00- thereby doing 1h of overtime?

[Venkman]

What about rostered overtime, whereby crew are rostered 50 hour weeks as a standard working week, in contrast with the standard 38-40 hour week? This is not overtime which is agreed, but simply rostered, would this be taken in to account?

[Weathergirly]

Before BA I was at Flybe and my contract there stated 39 hours per week?

Just had our Holiday pay claim settled by the company but no overtime has been taken into account.

It would be interesting to know which UK Airlines have settled their claims. (Overtime or not). Spoke with an ex-colleague from Bmibaby and it looks like their new owner (BA) has told BALPA no claim will be settled due to a technicality in the legal proceedings.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

When were you at Flybe?

Look closely at your annual increment paperwork where it states 39 hrs/wk does not apply to flight deck or cabin crew, I suggest it's probably in the contract as well.

[RAT 5]

There was always that classic bar-room discussion about the real salary of an airline pilot. The argument is now even worse with the type of roster 5/4 that EU LoCo's operate.

Take a months roster; look at the number of hours Mon-Fri between 08.30 & 17.30: now look at the number of hours worked outsides these = overtime to anyone else. use 150% for hours before and after Mon-FRi & 150% for daytime weekends & 200% for night weekends. Then calculate what the basic salary was for the weekday normal hours. It will shock you. The same can be done for engineers & Ops staff and all others in the 24/7 brigade.

Of course we expect to work 24/7 in such an industry. One CP even suggested that we do not work shifts so do need compensation; that was a laugh. However, the real test is to see what % of your duties are within normal hours and what % outside i.e. within normal overtime. Engineers & Ops staff who do regular shift generally work 4/4; way better than a 5/3 or the 6/2 of some cabin crew. I once found that in summer months my hours often were >50% in the overtime periods. No free weekends: No sympathy offered, nor compensation.

The name of the game, and it will get worse. Be thankful that most LoCo's do not fly too many trip through the night. 5 earlies are bad enough; 4 nights are hell and dangerous.

[nitefiter]

Before BA I was at Flybe and my contract there stated 39 hours per week?

Just had our Holiday pay claim settled by the company but no overtime has been taken into account.

It would be interesting to know which UK Airlines have settled their claims. (Overtime or not). Spoke with an ex-colleague from Bmibaby and it looks like their new owner (BA) has told BALPA no claim will be settled due to a technicality in the legal proceedings.

Can you enlarge on the last part as I'm ex baby and haven't heard anything from BALPA about this for months??

[nitefiter]

Clearly you can't then !!
Please don't post unsubstantiated rubbish
I have spoken with BALPA today and the claim is still with the lawyers, and to quote them. "They are still trying to get us the best deal"