US ONSHORE 2016

[Trafalgar]

Haha....they really must be joking (and desperate). Let's announce US onshoring now, just as they are beginning to get just a 'little' bit nervous with the reaction from the yank pilots...and those who have already put in their resignations.

What a fatuous, pathetic and desperate move. They seem to have missed the point that by doing this they are making things even LESS appealing for those of us considering staying or leaving. Not only did we take a 7 % pay cut Jan of this year, but by onshoring, we will be subject to a FURTHER 7 % pay cut due to increased SSN and Medicare taxes.

They really don't get it do they? The GMA needs to have look at the pay scales and benefits of REAL US airlines (not the commuters...) and see that we are already far behind in compensation by comparison. It will only be far more glaring once we are onshore.

My vote is in. CC...can hardly wait. What a pathetic organization this airlines is beneath the surface.

[Shep69]

Didn't get the memo yet....is this really official ?

It'll cost THEM even more--a matching 7%, workman's comp, unemployment comp, ACA taxes, medicare, maybe even some state burdens depending on where they choose to base.

BUT there are some labour protections which kick in as a consolation prize.

[JuniorMan]

They really don't get it do they? The GMA needs to have look at the pay scales and benefits of REAL US airlines (not the commuters...) and see that we are already far behind in compensation by comparison. It will only be far more glaring once we are onshore.

I really don't know much about the contract at CX, but I find this hard to believe. By 'REAL US airlines', I am assuming you mean the US3 (United, Delta, and American). Is CX really 'far behind in compensation by comparison' to the US3?

[Arfur Dent]

If I were threatened with so-called 'on shoring' anywhere in the world organised (sic) by Cathay Pacific and their KPMG mates I would prepare for another ill-researched f**k up! Those of us in UK left in the lurch by that pathetic worm of a DFO are still fighting to recover extra tax (above PAYE) paid to Hong Kong when Cathay told HK IRD that we had left Hong Kong for good and were unlikely ever to return (so called 'Leaving Hong Kong case'). HKIRD discovered that we were still employed in Hong Kong, trained from Hong Kong, checked in Hong Kong and should therefore pay tax in Hong Kong starting five years ago!!
' A bit of extra paperwork' according to our DFO. Still going on too and the battle continues with zero help from CX despite the fact that the whole mess was caused by them. Bloody amateurs.
Be afraid - be very afraid.:mad:

[japandwell]

I personally can't see why a single pilot would want to work for this company, if it weren't for the expat benefits. Makers no sense for guys who are allready there to stay, at least those offered jobs by the US3.

[4 driver]

Two CN slots between LAX and SFO. How Senior will these go???
Must be 50 - 80 qualified people trying to get out of HKG. 20 years is my guess....

[Trafalgar]

..try 25... :ok:

[Trafalgar]

...it'll take 20 years to GET a base....:mad:

[Bob Hawke]

So it's a joke then?

[AQIS Boigu]

This round is a joke but the next one should be better...

How many Americans do we have based in HKG? The answer is not that many.

[asianeagle]

They also said there would be 25yr housing, still waiting!

[Sqwak7700]

This is just a sad attempt at reducing the yes votes for CC. But attaching it to the onshoring grenade was really dumb. Will do more harm than good.

They really aren't too bright, are they.

[Hellenic aviator]

Fatuous move indeed.
There's a lot of non 'green card' holders (F/Os) that reside in Canada and Mexico that shall be affected by this.

Shep69 nailed it - BUT there are some labour protections which kick in as a consolation prize.

Two things that come to mind is that (a) those non 'green card holders' can open a class action law suit citing discrimination since the Company only obtained work permits for the Captains, and (b) the Company now will need to think twice before they decide to do anything outside the contract. They won't be allowed to arbitrarily change any CoS with reasons of 'we are a HKG company'.

Already they've faced a threat of having US flights ceased because the GMO refused to accept the active Reservists who are LA based, by US Labor Law require to have their roster built around their military flying.

Last month 10 F/Os (SFO and LAX base) have submitted their resignations. This is going to increase now that UA, DL, AA, UPS and FDX are hiring again.

.....Just another 'carrot dangling' move :hmm:

[plainpilot11]

Yah. Where is all this coming from? On-shoring? 2 CN slots? No FO slots? There's nothing on the website that I've been able to find. Yawn, probably more rumors started.

I was told when I interviewed in 2011 point-blank that bases were ongoing and people were placed all the time, to my face.

Did you hear that Tanya Harding is interviewing to be a flight attendant at CX?

[RusCo]

10 F/O's resigning from LAX and SFO? Really? I have been hearing those rumours for 12 years...they will leave, they will go...it is the best thing that could happen, but til I see it, I don't believe.

Lots of rumours and bs.

[GTC58]

Hellenic aviator

I know only 5 who quit in the last 3 months. However, I know a lot have applied with other airlines and many still have seniority numbers and recall rights with American and United. Most will have to make a decision between 2016 and 2019. As it stands now most say the will leave Cathay, but that can change.

Actually the company got work visa's for Canadian captains and fo's based in the US. They just did not renew the visas for the fo's. Funny though all the Americans based in Canada do not need a visa. You would think immigration rules would be similar between Canada and the USA.

[RusCo]

So here we are, a week later and still no notice to crew re:usa bases.

Man they love dangling that carrot.

[Trafalgar]

It was a carrot dangled to try and swing the CC vote. Now their strategy has failed, they can pretend to have not even mentioned the base issue. Remember: "those who forget history are destined to repeat it". Also remember: when their lips (or newsletters) are moving, they ARE lying.

[RusCo]

Yeah, sad but true.

[Bob Hawke]

Rusco, it's not really a carrot, its a pineapple.

[RusCo]

Don't you know cx's take on the carrot and stick management style?

Show you the carrot and beat you with the stick.

[plainpilot11]

It's really discouraging that the GMA promised that an NTC will be sent out at the end of last week, and it never happened. It's such a small thing to uphold promises like the one she made, and it speaks and means volumes to those for whom it's intended. Many people, and I being one of them, although much more cautiously after hearing some of the conditions that will probably be attached to taking a base, have been waiting years, literally years, for the news that they will be free from Hong Kong, headed back to family and friends. I don't doubt that she will add theses slots for the appropriate bid cycle, but for heaven's sake, don't make promises that you can't keep, even if your intentions are, well, hopefully, good.

One does end up feeling, well, hit with a stick. And when you get hit with a stick, it doesn't make you want to play nice.

[RusCo]

At some point it has become the norm to lie and it seems like it is ok to do so.

i too have been waiting years and am turning down a command for it....oh wait that is rather presumptuous of me to think that I would actually pass a command after being here 13 years.

[plainpilot11]

How hard would this have been to post.

"Unfortunately, due to pressing issues, I must make an apology for not getting the promised NTC out this week. I realize it is Friday, the day it was promised to be released. I will do my utmost to get it out as early as possible next week. I do realize many of you are and have been waiting for this for quite some time, so my utmost apologies."

Then Tuesday it comes out, and we all can be understanding with the delay. Think that would do for pilot/manager relations. Sad that doesn't happen.

[BlunderBus]

I'm wondering how they're going to sort out green cards for non citizens, ssn, medicare levy, workers comp insurance, hong kong tax versus USA tax that now exists in 3 different versions for the same crew for no reason,retirement conditions and tax thereon,etc etc..because if any of the other bases are any example to go by then we're in for a huge screw up yet again!
However I'm confident those on the USA bases will be given a solid 10 minutes notice to sign up or leave.
Maybe there'll be vacancies in Paris :)

[RusCo]

Cathay is not going to to sort out green cards, Ssn or anything else.

YOU NEED TO HAVE RIGHT TO WORK AND LIVE.

I have bid 3 times for a London base in the past year and was number 1 all 3 times. I was not awarded the base because I DO NOT HAVE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK OR LIVE.

[crwkunt roll]

So why would you apply?

[airplaneridesrfun]

Did you expect anything else from the GMA? It's not 1986 anymore.... the respect which the likes of RH were afforded when they joined has disappeared.

This is a stopgap maneuver to prevent Americans from leaving temporarily.

[Arfur Dent]

When our Alzheimic Leader joined, pilots were veritably feted and admired as an essential part of the Executive. Captains were Gods (some things don't change) and pilots had direct access to Swire House executives if required. Opinions were sought and respected. Before Annual Leave you were entitled to an interview with the Chairman, or at least the MD on the Island. He would ask about life in the front of our Flagships and listen carefully to any suggestions before shaking hands and wishing you well on your vacation.
In 3 decades - ie one generation - we are where we are. Well done chaps - very well managed.:ok:

[BlunderBus]

I think you're going to find guys already there on the magic L1A visa..good for 7 years ..and time must be just about up.

[GTC58]

The L1A's are good for more than 7 years for commuters who don't reside in the US as only days in the US count towards the time limit, which is 3 years and two 2 year renewals. As for pilots who moved to the US, most applied for green cards. So for the commuters from Canada that visa is at least good for 20 years. The only pilots who might get kicked off the US base when onshored are the Canadian FO's if CX can't get them a proper visa.

[plainpilot11]

Yeah, and then watch the US blokes really leave in droves when the bases open up and they can't get them because the company is renewing the Canadians visas. Yikes, hate to think what'll happen then. We think "droves of US guys are leaving now?" Wait till that happens.

[GTC58]

What are you talking about? Only Canadians who where already on a US base got visas. Any new vacancies will go only to pilots who have the right to work and live in the US.
Btw, none of the Americans on the Canadian bases have visas.

[BillytheKid]

BTW, CX will not allow Americans to take Canadian bases anymore.