BIA and Air Anglia

[Mooncrest]

Both these airlines at one time had common ownership, i.e. the British and Commonwealth Shipping Group. Would I be right in thinking the two airlines split the UK down the middle as far as operations were concerned and was this a deliberate act of their owners ? To illustrate, LBA was an Air Anglia base and operated flights to Norwich and Edinburgh. BIA, however was a common sight 'out west', for example at Glasgow, Exeter, Manchester and the Isle of Man. BIA used to link LBA with IOM during the mid-seventies but that was all, apart from the odd training visit during early 1979.

[brakedwell]

I was employed by BIA for a short time in 1978/9 when it was owned by the Cayzer Family (British & Commonwealth Shipping). I don't think B&C had any connection with Air Anglia, which was partly owned by Norwich Union.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

I believe that Air Anglia was sold to British and Commonwealth sometime around 1980 and together with Air Wales and Air Westward was merged in that year with BIA to form Air UK.

BIA operations base was Gatwick and its engineering base was at Blackpool.
I suppose there was a westerly bias to their network serving Exeter, Southampton, The Channel Islands and The Isle of Man to name a few of their many destinations.

Air Anglia's main base was at Norwich, their rapid expansion fuelled by the North Sea Oil boom which resulted in a second base being established at Aberdeen. Their schedules from Norwich to Aberdeen and Norwich to Amsterdam were really their flagship routes. Many destinations were served predominantly in central and eastern Britain and also Stavanger, Norway.

[om15]

As stated, Air UK was formed from the 4 companies, the Engineering base at Blackpool was closed in November 1980, the Herald fleet was reduced at that time, the high time Heralds were laid up and scrapped at Norwich, over the next 2 or 3 years the remaining Heralds were sold or scrapped, ( a couple went to museums). The engineering base was consolidated in the Air Anglia hangars at Norwich, concentrating on the F27-200 series operated by Air UK, customers at that time were Lauda Air, Busy Bee, Skyguard and Avianco.
The old BIA routes to the Channel Islands were still operated by Heralds up to around 1982 when the F27s took over, by then the company livery was on all aircraft and the identity of BIA and Air Anglia had disappeared.
A few customers Heralds were maintained at Norwich up to around 1990 or so, but the F27s were operating all the company routes.
Air Anglia routes were mainly east coast, something like four return flights a day to Amsterdam, and Leeds - Edinburgh from Norwich.


BIA continued at Gatwick with BAC1-11s but this was not part of the Air UK group.


I worked for BIA at Blackpool and moved to Norwich when the base was closed, much better engineering facilities - and much better pubs as well.

[bean]

BIA could trace its history to its ancestors namely Jersey Airlines. Manx Airlines and Lancashire Aircraft Corporation. Silver City bought Manx and the northern operations of LAC to form Silver City Northern Division.
Air Holdings- partly owned by the Cayzers (British and Commonwealth) as a result of their ownership of Hunting Clan Airways which was one of the founders of British United Aiways- purchased Silver City and Jersey Airlines in 1962. The northern division became British United (Manx) Airways and Jersey Airlines became British United (CI) Airways. These two were run from Jersey by the old Jersey Airlines management. the route structure was very similar at that time to what it was in 1978.
British United (Manx) and British United (CI) became British United Island Airways on 1st November 1968 by which time British and Commonwealth had Bought the Main British United Airways From Air Holdings
When British and Commonwealth sold BUA to Caledonian in 1970 BUIA was not part of the deal and was renamed British Island Airways
Air Anglia was the result of the merger of several small East Anglian operators in 1971 British and commonwealth bought the company in 1978 and did announce at the time that they intended to run the two companies seperately but subsequently changed their minds and Air Uk was born in early 1980
The two route structures evolved entirely seperately and the BIA structure was much older and the two airlines were not working in cooperation until 1978

[bean]

The last two Heralds G-APWJ and G-ASKK were actually retired in 1985
G-APWJ was actually deliverd to Duxford by Captain "Spenny" Spencer (who had been Chief Pilot of Jersey Airlines) on his retirement flight

[om15]

I hadn't realised that KK was still in service until 1985, I left Norwich in 1984.

The photograph below was taken in May 1984 at Norwich , the aircraft in the foreground is ex BIA G-AYMG operated by Skyguard in on routine maintenance, this aircraft was later operated by Channel Express.
The aircraft at the back was ex Arkia G-BEXB operated by Channel Express on repair following a main gear failure on landing at Guernsey 2 months before.

If I recall G-APWJ was used by Rolls Royce as a test bed for a later model of Dart for a period prior to disposal to Duxford.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/timgibbs1/HeraldsatNorwichMay1984.jpg

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

The much travelled G-ASKK is still at Norwich - in The Museum.

In my days as a BIA Movement Controller (73-78) we all thought that 'KK should be in a Museum then, so frequently was she unserviceable - a splendid static exhibit complete with 44 irate passengers and an out of hours crew!

[Proplinerman]

BIA Herald at Ringway forty years ago, possibly G-APWJ:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/4909559579/in/photolist-fw7APc-8tQM1X-9D6uS2-8Zf7Sq-dVBEQb-8vxFMM-8egbhS-8EEtxz-9D6siV-93MeFa-8ZrKQT


G-APWH at Exeter forty-two(!) years ago:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5242292324/in/photolist-fw7APc-8tQM1X-9D6uS2-8Zf7Sq-dVBEQb-8vxFMM-8egbhS-8EEtxz-9D6siV-93MeFa-8ZrKQT

G-ASKK at Squires Gate in 1973:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5670628559/in/photolist-fw7APc-8tQM1X-9D6uS2-8Zf7Sq-dVBEQb-8vxFMM-8egbhS-8EEtxz-9D6siV-93MeFa-8ZrKQT



And G-ASKK as she is today, in the museum at Norwich:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/4744573122/in/photolist-fw7APc-8tQM1X-9D6uS2-8Zf7Sq-dVBEQb-8vxFMM-8egbhS-8EEtxz-9D6siV-93MeFa-8ZrKQT

[chevvron]

In '72, Air Anglia operated several DC3s daily from Norwich to Sumburgh in support of oil exploration. I was at Sumburgh in Sep '72 when they went into administration and the 3 DC3s there at the time were immediately flown back to Norwich empty (apart from crew of course!)

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

As far as I can recall Air Anglia based one or more of its DC3s at Aberdeen in the early 1970s and it was from there that these aircraft performed their services under charter initially to Shell for rig crew changes at Sumburgh. I was on board as a passenger on the very first of these flights.
I cannot remember that the airline went into administration in 1972. If it did, then the directors Jim Crampton and Wilbur Wright kept their cards very close to their chests. At that time I think we were operating 4 DC3s and there was a considerable fall off of work for these aircraft, perhaps a contract was lost.

In the event several DC3 pilots were made redundant along with some ground support and office staff but there was no mention that the airline was in serious financial difficulties, particularly as Norwich Union were a major stakeholder.

At about that time Air Anglia chose to concentrate more on developing their scheduled services and the F27 was selected to develop the network thus gradually replacing the Daks.

This is all many years ago and Chevvron may well have been privy to information that never filtered through to me in the Ops Room.

I expect that he can remember the days when golf was still played on the airfield at Sumburgh and Les Isaacs the SATCO did a roaring trade in sheep skins. How times have changed!

[Proplinerman]

Yes, I don't recall Air Anglia going bust in 1972: I have photos of one of their DC-3s and a F-27 at Manchester, that I took in 1973, and I'm sure they went on flying for many years after that, eventually being subsumed (I think) into Air UK-see my museum photo of G-ASKK above.

[Proplinerman]

Just uploaded to my Flickr photostream: 1. Air Anglia F-27 G-BAKL at M/C in 1973:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/15691508866/in/photostream


Then, taken a few minutes later, their DC-3 G-AOBN-still in regular service as of this date!


https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/15095286234/in/photostream/


These are the only two photos I ever took of any Air Anglia aircraft.

[Airbanda]

Thanks for those pics Propliner. I guess they were diversions from Leeds where the n/b and s/b NWI>LBA>EDi>ABZ (and v.v.) services both morning and evening were scheduled close together and often met on the ground.

The Dak was still used on one rotation a week, including the Sunday eve n/b, probably AQ204, until 1974. Presumably this allowed the a/c to rotate back to NWI for maintenance.

[Mooncrest]

Thankyou for your responses everybody. Clearly there is still much good feeling around for these two airlines.

In the early 1970s I was pre-school and regular trips to Leeds Bradford (Yeadon in those days) were a way to keep me and my siblings occupied. It was mainly Northeast and Dan-Air aircraft back then so I always found the BIA Herald visits a bit exciting (and the Aer Lingus "Dublin jets"). Then one year, probably around '77, BIA stopped visiting and the Isle of Man flights were no more. By this time Air Anglia had established a base at Yeadon so maybe BIA felt unwanted (!) although I don't remember Anglia flying to IOM, just the likes of Edinburgh and Norwich (the easterly bias I've already alluded to). And Amsterdam from 1976. I don't remember seeing BIA at Yeadon again until early 1979 on training flights. The company might even have resumed an IOM schedule. I can recall seeing their Heralds at Manchester and Exeter, hence the apparent westerly operation.

What I'm fairly certain I do remember is an Air Anglia timetable with a notice detailing the company's B&C ownership and pictures of an F28 and a BIA 1-11. So the two companies' common ownership, by 1979 at least, seems assured but it appears the east/west operations split wasn't by design.

[Herod]

The remnant of AirUK still exists. It's called CityhopperUK (I think), and is part of KLM/Air France.

[om15]

The condition of G-ASKK is a credit to the museum management at Norwich, the paintwork still looks quite good.
Other Heralds that were donated to museums fared less well, the ex BAF, ex Channel Express G-BEYF was donated to Bournemouth Airport but was dismantled and scrapped a few years ago.
Ex BIA G-AVPN was operated in her last years as a freighter with Channel Express before being donated to Elvington, I saw some photos recently and she looked rather the worse for wear.

[chevvron]

I never said they went bust, just into administration. As far as I recall after 40+ years, it only lasted a couple of days, then they were back operating as normal, so maybe those who weren't employees never noticed.

[Proplinerman]

"The condition of G-ASKK is a credit to the museum management at Norwich, the paintwork still looks quite good."


Don't forget that my photo dates from more than seven years ago-though I have every hope and expectation that the museum have kept her just as nice-looking; but does someone have a more recent photo?


I've also got a shot taken the same day, of a (differently liveried) Air UK Friendship in the museum, if people would like me to post a link to that-let me know.


It was a very good museum, even down to my being able to take shelter under the hugely accommodating wings of their Vulcan, during an immense cloudburst during my visit! That said tho, an alarmingly large amount of water was coming through the wings at a few points. Ie if you can't get preserved aircraft under cover in the UK, it's unlikely they'll be around forever. But good on all aircraft museums for trying their best-hangarage is very dear (I know, I'm a Chartered Surveyor who deals with commercial property).


I've also got a shot of G-AVPN looking quite nice at Elvington quite a few years ago, so I'll post a link to that shortly-in a bit of a hurry this pm.

[bean]

Airlines don't go into administration for "a couple of days" also the term never existed in the early seventies. If an airline was in serious difficulties the official receivers would be called in usually ending in the company being wound up.

[Phileas Fogg]

Don't forget these little beasts:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/0/2/7/2132720.jpg

[Midland 331]

'KK was British Midland's first turbine equipment, bought new from Handley Page, and a source much pride.

"Flight" Magazine one featured an air-to-air photo of it passing the yet-to-be-completed Castle Donington.

[Midland 331]

'KK was British Midland's first turbine equipment, bought new from Handley Page in 1965, and a source much pride.

"Flight" Magazine one featured an air-to-air photo of it passing the yet-to-be-completed Castle Donington.

[snooky]

In flight film of G-ASKK Flight and landing G-ASKK aeroplane - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Tly3l7lvgQE)

[plassey1]

AQ did not go into administration in 1972. There had been a major revue of the company and it was decided that it would specialise in scheduled services up and down the east coast and to Amsterdam, this resulted in the drop off in in the charter activities.

[Proplinerman]

Shot of a KLM UK Fokker 50 in 2002:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/15874531905/in/photostream

And of one of their Fokker 100s in 2001:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/11695023383/in/photolist-iPs41c-bPgtHP-knvxG6-7U87QQ-qbM8gX-bPgtY8-8823rk-9AEvqj-bjieFX-bPgtKR-dskM7U-bjifBV-dbbyLv-bjihJ8-dbbV9c-9HJoM3-oZVhFL-pUB5Uj-7QCLQD-nNWivb-nwBfe3-9DoM2J-8MjuZs

[DCDriver]

I was a young FO in Air Anglia in the mid-70’s. Here are a few old pics I took; sorry about the quality of some of the scans.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76208708@N08/15871505236

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76208708@N08/15895327771

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76208708@N08/15277683153

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76208708@N08/15895329611

We still hold reunions 40 yrs on because AQ was a really pleasant place to work, with an almost family-like atmosphere.

[Airbanda]

Nice pics DcDriver. Thanks for posting.

[Herod]

Have to agree DcDriver, and AirUK generally continued to be a nice place to work. I did a little over 24 years with them; Air Anglia, AirUK, KLMuk and buzz.

[WHBM]

Have heard Eastern Airways described as Air Anglia reincarnated.


Air Anglia really developed their "east side" emphasis from the development of the North Sea exploration, gas in their southern sector before oil in the northern, for which their base at Norwich served well, there were other points along the way that were important for these customers, such as Teesside (difficult to believe nowadays), and then these customers moved further north to Aberdeen and the airline followed them.

BIA was really the smaller aircraft bits of the old British United that B Cal didn't want, and those in turn had come from various mergers but were focused on Gatwick, Jersey and the Isle of Man, concentrating on holiday places that were declining in summer and provided very little in winter. They did towards the merger time absorb the schedules of BAF at Southend, definitely on the east side, which had been separately split from BUA, but the actual aircraft used continued to be BAF ones chartered in, BIA just having taken over the commercial side of the operation.

[bean]

"concentrating on holiday places that were declining in summer"
WHBM. For your information Jersey recorded it's highest passenger numbers ever in 1978 (just before the Merger with Air Anglia)
I also recall a conversation I had with the BIA/AirUk station manager in Jersey in 1980 where he asserted most emphaticaly that the BIA operation was by far the more profitable operation of the two airlines. I'm sure he had more inside knowledge than you:rolleyes:
Also: If you believe that Eastern Airwys is "Air Anglia reincarnated" I suggest you read this thread http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/237598-eastern-airways-66.html

[esa-aardvark]

I did about 18 years as a passenger Norwich to Ams on Monday morning, back Friday evening.That would have been about '77 until I retired in '95. A very nice airline until taken over by KLM.
John

[fantom]

Don't forget the Exec Fleet !

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/minlgw/GBMIN_zpsc14fbd56.jpg (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/minlgw/media/GBMIN_zpsc14fbd56.jpg.html)

[Herod]

Blimey! We got to post 33 before Fantom appeared. Nice picture.

[DCDriver]

No, indeed I hadn't - I was just waiting for you to post that piccie! :):)

[Porrohman]

I seem to recall that Air Anglia operated some piston airliners out of EDI in the late 70s. One was a Swiss Convair 440 leased from Air Sea Services and another was a Martin 404 that was briefly leased from an American operator. There may have been others. I think they were used mainly on the newly introduced Paris route while waiting for the F28 to be delivered. Does anyone else recall / have more details of these operations? I tried searching Google and Wikipedia but couldn't find any mention of them. Martin 404s hardly ever operated in Europe AFAIK so its appearance would have been something of rarity.

[Fareastdriver]

I flew Aberdeen to Norwich and back a couple of times in the late seventies with Air Anglia. At that time during the oil boom is was said that the fare on that route was the highest £/mile in the World.

[Porrohman]

Another of the piston airliners used by Air Anglia out of EDI in 1977/78 may have been a Scanbee Convair 340?

[Wander00]

I may be wrong but ISTR that in the late 60s some of the Varsity pilots on 115 Sqn at Watton moonlighted for Air Anglia

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

AI may be wrong but ISTR that in the late 60s some of the Varsity pilots on 115 Sqn at Watton moonlighted for Air Anglia


Air Anglia not formed until 1970. Can you give me a name or two? Rather unlikely as they would have had to possess a Commercial Licence which I suppose is quite possible if they were shortly due to leave the service. That said when I joined the company in 1971 the majority of Captains were ex RAF. I can remember five fine pilots who sported uniform service ribbons.

[WHBM]

I seem to recall that Air Anglia operated some piston airliners out of EDI in the late 70s. One was a Swiss Convair 440 leased from Air Sea Services and another was a Martin 404 that was briefly leased from an American operator. There may have been others. I think they were used mainly on the newly introduced Paris route while waiting for the F28 to be delivered. Does anyone else recall / have more details of these operations? I tried searching Google and Wikipedia but couldn't find any mention of them. Martin 404s hardly ever operated in Europe AFAIK so its appearance would have been something of rarity.
I'm actually not aware of any Martin 202/404 ever crossing either the Atlantic, so wonder if this is a mis-sighting of a Comvair, although most such mis-sightings were normally the other way round, of Martins being mis-identified as the more common Convairs. Any more detail ?

[Porrohman]

I'm actually not aware of any Martin 202/404 ever crossing either the Atlantic, so wonder if this is a mis-sighting of a Comvair, although most such mis-sightings were normally the other way round, of Martins being mis-identified as the more common Convairs. Any more detail ?

I'm sure it was a Martin 404. The year was probably 1977 and I think it was leased from Air South for a month or two. The only other occasion that I'm aware of a civilian Matin 404 operating in Europe was when Frank Sinatra used one for his 1962 tour.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Martin-404/1087450?qsp=eJwljEkOwjAMRe/y19lUzNnRC8CCC1iOgUiljWxXoqp6d0K7%2B%2BObwUPv8vXHVAQRJqT8RkA hpY8hzqCsrPT0lizzNjvvL02oz7F3nRAPzSnABvW2GiRyuTJLcUnY8psm0X8 lxiv7VSGVUETvq8buWPOUrXS0MsQpd1iWHwadNOA%3D

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1099/s_l1600_4c1b27f3317244aee75c545b59e7900e7591b43d.jpg

[Airbanda]

I seem to recall that Air Anglia operated some piston airliners out of EDI in the late 70s. One was a Swiss Convair 440 leased from Air Sea Services and another was a Martin 404 that was briefly leased from an American operator. There may have been others. I think they were used mainly on the newly introduced Paris route while waiting for the F28 to be delivered. Does anyone else recall / have more details of these operations? I tried searching Google and Wikipedia but couldn't find any mention of them. Martin 404s hardly ever operated in Europe AFAIK so its appearance would have been something of rarity.

They certainly used DC-3 equipment until maybe 75/6. One was used on the mostly F-27 equipped NWI>LBA>EDI>ABZ service for the Friday evening s/b rotation returning north on Sunday evening, presumably to facilitate maintenance or a/c swap.

I was a pretty active spotter and Leeds between 74 and 79. I'd be surprised if AQ operating a Martin 404 wasn't news at the time regarding the type being more or less unknown in Europe. I'd also be surprised if leasing an N reg type which had no UK certification ad hoc from a small US outfit would have got past the CAA though I seem to remember BMA operating US reg DC-9 kit on Liverpool and Teesside services pending type's UK certification.

[Porrohman]

The Paris service was timetabled for the F27 but was sometimes operated by a piston-liner in 1977-78 due to a shortage of F27s. I often wondered what passengers thought when the timetabled F27 was replaced with something vintage that produced huge clouds of smoke on start up. They may also have been used on the Amsterdam service from time to time but I mainly recall them on the Paris service. Around that time, Air Anglia leased F27 PH-ARO (an easy name to remember) from Fokker but was still sometimes short of aircraft to cover the route network plus scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. I don't recall the piston liners being used on the ABZ-EDI-LBA-NWI route.

I have found photos of the Air Sea Services 440 and the Scanbee 340 in my collection but haven't found any of the 404 yet.

[Wander00]

OUA...ops-- would it have been AIRUK then, would have been late 60s as flying squadrons left Watton Sep 69 (I wrote the Admin and Ops orders for move to Cottesmore). 115 were the other side of the airfield so our paths seldom crossed. Sorry if it is a red herring

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

OUA...ops-- would it have been AIRUK then, would have been late 60s as flying squadrons left Watton Sep 69 (I wrote the Admin and Ops orders for move to Cottesmore). 115 were the other side of the airfield so our paths seldom crossed. Sorry if it is a red herring

Not at all a Red Herring. Air Anglia came about as a merger in 1970 of Norfolk Airways, Anglian Air Charter and Rig Air. These outfits' origins went back to Norfolk in the 1950s and the bosses, Jim Crampton and Wilbur Wright (both ex RAF) would seasonally employ any suitably qualified pilots for pleasure flying and it's possible they might then have employed pilots ad hoc from RAF Watton particularly for Summer Weekends and Bank Holidays. In later years Air Anglia merged with British Island Airways and others to form Air UK.

[jensdad]

the bosses, Jim Crampton and Wilbur Wright Hence the reg's of the F28's G-JCWW and G-WWJC?

[Herod]

Hence the reg's of the F28's G-JCWW and G-WWJC?

Yep. Those were the days of hope for jets. I joined late '78 as an F27 captain (after 6 months RHS), with the prospect of an F28 a couple of years down the line. The jet (BAe 146) arrived for me ten years and 6,000 hours F27 later. But they were fun years.

[Mooncrest]

F27 PH-ARO became, I think, G-BFDS when it was transferred to the UK register. I remember seeing it at LBA for the first time in early 1978. It still wore the Linair livery of dark blue and white with a stylised 'L' on the tailfin.

[jensdad]

Yep. Those were the days of hope for jets. I joined late '78 as an F27 captain (after 6 months RHS), with the prospect of an F28 a couple of years down the line. The jet (BAe 146) arrived for me ten years and 6,000 hours F27 later. But they were fun years.

Pretty sure I'd have been standing on the roof terrace at Newcastle with my dad watching you do one of those super-quick turnarounds between Aberdeen and Norwich. Loved the F27s.

[Herod]

Loved the F27s.

You and me both, jensdad. A "Ronseal" aeroplane, if you know what I mean. Rugged, basic, but a trusty old beast. I won't hear a word against it.

[Porrohman]

My first ever flight was on an Air Anglia F27 in 1977. It was an air experience flight from EDI and routed over Dunbar, then a 360 orbit over Leuchars, to Stonehaven, Perth, over the Forth bridges and a steep turn over Dalmeny Park for very short finals to runway 25 (as it was then) at EDI. It was a warm summers day with sunshine and scattered small clouds and most of the flight was at 3,000 - 4,000 feet along the coast. This resulted in fantastic views through the huge F27 windows and a really enjoyable roller-coaster ride as we hit thermal after thermal. We had to climb above the clouds between Stonehaven and Perth but I presume the rest of the route was flown VFR which must have been an interesting change for the crew.

[DH106]

F27 PH-ARO became, I think, G-BFDS when it was transferred to the UK register. I remember seeing it at LBA for the first time in early 1978. It still wore the Linair livery of dark blue and white with a stylised 'L' on the tailfin.

Yes, I remember PH-ARO at LBA in that livery vividly :)

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

https://www.francisfrith.com/uk/caister-on-sea/caister-on-sea-pleasure-flights-over-great-yarmouth-c1955_memory-476681


https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/19383

[condor17]

Still have a couple of rejection letters from AA from various 70's times . No hard feelings , as the best is the advert slogan '' Bigger than you think '' . Followed a while later by '' Quicker than you think '' .

The best , managed to blag a '' Bigger than you think '' tee-shirt from Julie ? in advertising / promo dept ? at NWI . Whilst staff tkt hitching the NWI-LHR rte.
Proudly presented to a 'gurl friend of the time in LHR area . Did I get a personal fitting ? Lips are sealed as she was a lady .

rgds condor

[jensdad]

hitching the NWI-LHR rte.
Bygone days, eh? What were loads like on the Norwich-Heathrow route? Were the roads and railways really that slow in those days?

[Offchocks]

Bygone days, eh? What were loads like on the Norwich-Heathrow route? Were the roads and railways really that slow in those days?

I did quite a few NWI-LHR and they were quite full, but that was in the Navajo!

[Self loading bear]

I did quite a few NWI-LHR and they were quite full, but that was in the Navajo!

Might that have been mostly foreign offshore bears?

I have once taken a cab from Great Yarmouth to Stansted.
That already took 2,5 hours.

Heathrow would have been 3 hrs?

[plassey1]

Heathrow service was mainly interline passengers

[plassey1]

Convair was used out of Glasgow on Amsterdam. Passengers loved its “ old fashioned interior. Never subchartered any Martin equipment.

[jensdad]

Convair was used out of Glasgow on Amsterdam. Passengers loved its “ old fashioned interior. Never subchartered any Martin equipment.
I read about the Martin / Convair a few days back. For some reason it's taken me until now to remember Partnair (Norwegian charter company) Convair 580s operating regularly into Newcastle. I think some of the flights were offshore charters, but pretty sure some of them were longer term subcharters for someone: either Dan-Air or Air UK? Could that be what we are thinking of here?

[Offchocks]

Might that have been mostly foreign offshore bears?


No they were scheduled flights with one in the morning and another in the evening, as I understood it they were for route proving before the F27 was used. Good fun for a young lad in 1977!

[goofer]

I definitely remember seeing an Air Anglia DC-3 at Turnhouse in early 1973. I think it was a weekly appearance. Also, I recall a magazine - probably Flight - publishing a passenger trip report about the flight to Norwich which concluded that it was a very civilised experience and an attractive option for the business traveler.
Goofer