Over the limit pilot at NWI

[PoloJamie]

Not sure of how much interest this will be to people, but here it is...

BBC News - Charter pilot charged over alcohol level (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29846379)

[Tequilaboy]

For Hangar 8 however I stand to be corrected.

First result on Linked In was a Pilot for them.

[Global_Global]

I thought it was Tequilaboy :E

But apart from that feel sorry for the guy but at the same time if true very stupid.....

[mutt]

With his name plastered all over the internet, does it matter if he is found innocent?

[Tequilaboy]

Imagine the owner of this aircraft would have preferred the reg to have been edited out!!!!

Ian Jennings arrested for 'flying while drunk' after landing at Norwich Airport | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815591/Pilot-private-plane-escorted-jet-arrested-flying-drunk-landing-airport.html)

[SpringHeeledJack]

Am I losing my faculties, or is it quite rare/unheard of to release a name, age and address of an alleged offender who has been charged, but not been tried in court for a civil case ?

[390cruise]

Within the corporate charter industry it is quite common to have a beverage or two from the onboard bar after the passengers have left.
Now this has always been rather risky from a legal point of view. Certainly no intention to fly but still on board an aircraft airside while wearing uniform!
Perhaps that is what happened here?

[deefer dog]

If I was flying commercial air transport flight I wouldn't dare take a drink from the bar until after I had left the aircraft, but in private ops once parked, chocked and everything off, why not have a beer?

[INNflight]

but in private ops once parked, chocked and everything off, why not have a beer?

Why not simply wait until you're at the hotel / bar / outside the airport / ...?

Our SOPs state that we're not supposed to drink in uniform, which I think is reasonable.
Is it worth possibly loosing your job for allegedly being drunk at work? Nah, don't think so. Beer at the hotel, yes please. Just not in uniform.

[390cruise]

INNflight

Good advice indeed !

My comments recorded my experience in this sector and a suggestion that perhaps this was what happened at NWI.
I do not condone this practise.

390

[Superflyman]

According to NWI spotters Display Reg Flight Details (http://egshmov.co.uk/egshmov/dispreg.php) the aircraft G-OCFT came in on a lunchtime positioning flight, then departed 3 hours later, assuming with new crew. Perhaps a big session at home base the night before?

[farmer jo]

He was found guilty today and faces a not so good future.

[bayete]

I believe a biz jet crew were once reported by ground staff for drinking on the aircraft. Unfortunately this caused a lot of trouble for the crew when all they were doing was clearing up the empties and wine glasses from the pax; the ground staff saw them with cans/glasses in hand and put 2 & 2 together and made 5!! :ugh:

[apruneuk]

This pilot may have been three times over the drink fly limit but was still legal to drive a car!
This case should be a wake-up call for all crew who enjoy a few jars the night before a flight; the blood alcohol limit for flying really is low and the old 8 hours (12 in most ops manuals) bottle/throttle rule that many of us were weaned on is a dangerous guide in this day and age.
Also, we need to bear in mind that in this business clients can and do change their plans and bring departures forward with little notice. Would you call ops and ask them to delay the flight because you planned your drinking around a p.m departure?
I enjoy the social side of the job as much as the next man/woman but nowadays my rule is no alcohol for 24 hours before a duty and none while down-route. Really!
A.P

[Miles Magister]

Good advice AP. I agree and follow the same rule.

MM

[Globalstream]

apreunuk`s sadly right. Even a small presence of alcohol might be sufficient to trigger an arrest depending on where you are in the world. It`s really not worth it any more.

I rarely have even a beer with dinner, but for me this is not about alcoholism or excessive drinking now, it`s not about discouraging the all night "BA" benders of yore; it`s about quality of life, because what`s really being said now is that there`s is an implicit expectation that when you`re on rotation, you`re on duty, no matter how long you`ve been on the road.

There`s something profoundly wrong with a schedule when, after three weeks downroute, one has to fear having even one bloody glass of wine with one`s meal because operators don`t have the decency to ring fence rest periods.

[melia]

I know this isn't reliable but the radio stated he had flown from Spain with passengers on board then tested at Norwich. At this stage he was 3 times over the limit. What sort of state was he in when he reported? Obviously in a bad way for someone to be worried enough call the authorities for landing.

[Comical Ali]

Was the operator of Challenger from UK or from Spain?

[dallas]

There`s something profoundly wrong with a schedule when, after three weeks downroute, one has to fear having even one bloody glass of wine with one`s meal because operators don`t have the decency to ring fence rest periods.
This is the perennial argument isn't it? I've seen other examples of crews left in a hotel at a 24/7 airport waiting for work who have, when called, declared that they have had a drink with dinner yet knew that they were only there to react to a charter pop-up. The argument was that they had 'been on standby' all day (in hotel, health spa, lie-ins etc) so were entitled to a period of rest, but it's a grey area if they've done cock all all day except run up a hotel bill! The pilots got nothing more than a bollocking, and to their credit they could have tried to wing it and didn't, but it was an interesting dilemma.

Oddly enough, the same OPR as this Chally.

[Moonwalker]

If you are off your duty period why can't you then drink alcohol in the aircraft after landing? (block + lets say 45 min or whatever the company has for regulation). At block + 46 min you are not on duty anymore according to the law so what stops you from drinking a beer in the A/C at minute 46?

[maxed-out]

Moonwalker,

Maybe it's because you're not supposed to be drunk when air side!

[PURPLE PITOT]

Dallas, they were perfectly within their rights. As an aoc operation, duty periods must be specified by law. We all know that happens retrospectively, but thats another argument.

Moonwalker, if you shut the door, you are performing an "aviation function", so they have got you there.

[x933]

Have to say the charge relating to an "aviation function" seems somewhat vague. This incident was the morning after the BACA prize giving and I can think of may people who - having performed at an aviation function the previous evening - could legitimately been over the alcohol limit the morning after :E. Where do you draw the line...

[PURPLE PITOT]

I dont, unfortunately that job goes to the judge on the day. It is a stupid and ill conceived law. But we are stuck with it.

[Delta12]

What do you mean they bring forward their travel plans ? You are on duty or off duty !

How shall one plan his rest if 'the plan' is just brought forward ? If the client wants flexibility put a standby at rest location before the flight !

Standby 24/7 ? Sorry, no thanks ! Its a job, not slavery...

[Moonwalker]

Moonwalker,

Maybe it's because you're not supposed to be drunk when air side!

I'm well aware of that but you still don't answer my hypothetically very interesting question.

[Moonwalker]

Dallas, they were perfectly within their rights. As an aoc operation, duty periods must be specified by law. We all know that happens retrospectively, but thats another argument.

Moonwalker, if you shut the door, you are performing an "aviation function", so they have got you there.

Shut the door? Most of the time you have the door open when you are performing post flight duties...? ...and I still don't close our door when we have post "dinner".

[Globalstream]

"but it's a grey area if they've done cock all all day except run up a hotel bill! "

You seem to be saying two things. First that the crew were evading work/duty and second that this is a representative attitude companies must guard against.

In twenty years, not once can I recall meeting a crew member who wanted to do "cock all all day except run up a hotel bill", though I`ve met plenty who were keen to save their expenses and many more who were desperate to get home.

More commonly I`ve experienced crews who want to rest before or after a flight or finish their rotation asap, but hang out in a hotel? Not so much. Also, once in the hotel, I`m not sure how you "run up a hotel bill". Any flying I`ve done or organised has involved the crew covering their own expenses. However, our experiences are our own.

In all cases corporate crews are paid for their time, not flight hours. It makes no odds to me whether they`re sitting on the ground for a month or flying 80 hours, I am paying them for their availability. That`s crystal clear, but even in private ops, fair practice suggests I should identify to the crew when they are on standby and when they`re finished. "Bloggs you`re on at 0600 and off 2000". I`m not defending excessive drinking before a flight, but after a period of standby it`s perfectly reasonable that crews should be free to ....insert leisure activity- go swimming, watch a movie or have a meal and a glass of wine. I would appreciate it if they answered the phone at least if I had need to contact them during their off time, but otherwise, their only obligation to me AFAIC is to present themselves fully ready at the next standby or duty period.

If a company refuses to acknowledge the basic human need for rest and some measure of relaxation and then finds them embarressed because it assigned a flight to an aircraft with no crew, then they only have themselves to blame. Forgive me, but I don`t have much sympathy for a business model that relies on rolling standby and I certainly don`t have any sympathy when they suffer the embarrasment of having a flight compromised because of their policy.

IMHO, if a company can`t operate according to the regulations or fair practice it should leave and allow better operators to succeed.

[dallas]

In the situation I was referring to it had been Day 3 of a jet being left at a 24/7 international airport where, rather than needlessly move jet to base, a commercial decision was made to leave it at last drop and hope to pick up work. The crew were aware of this, clearly bored, but their preceding duty had been 2+ days earlier. They decided around 2000 LT that nothing was going to happen and elected to have a drink. At 2010 a charter came in that they were perfectly placed for which the company lost.

The point of my post wasn't actually to castigate them, or neglect them rest before or after flying; my point was that after they'd done another day or so of whatever the company required of them they were on rostered days off. So I'm not suggesting crew are flogged to death - these guys weren't - just that there is a time to have a drink and a time, I suggest, not to.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Traditionally, any time after 1900L is time to have a drink. Company could have forewarned the crew that they had even quoted for a charter, never mind a "go now " call.

[Jackdaw]

Globalstream you are so right what you say. (Purple Pitot too). Can I come and work for you please!
Trouble is that many employers/management companies don't have the common sense to adopt such obvious procedures.