Final Salary Pensions

[MaximumPete]

An article in the Times today, 21st October, expresses concerns about money being taken out of guaranteed Final Salary Pension schemes and putting in riskier schemes in order to make more money.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed Final Salary Pension Scheme, Ask ex members of the bmi scheme. Monarch are going the same way.

:ouch:

[cockney steve]

Unfortunately, I think you are right.
I started in just a modest pension scheme , as a young, sellf-employed family -man. It soon became apparent that the hands of all these "advisers" and"providers" were dipping in the till and taking a good skim off the top. It wasn't hard to realise that the person paying for these impeccably booted and suited "professionals", was their customer...IE ME!
I froze my "investment" and took out an endowment. Yes, I suppose I got life-insurance during it's currency and unlike the pension, the cash wouldn't be forfeit to the "provider" if I died.....but, not only were the profits non-existent, but there was over a 25% shortfall in the basic sum.

Strikes me, the whole pensions industry is a leech on the backs ofthe financially naive.....immoral, unethical and opportunist.

It is prettyobvious the best way to secure ones future financial well-being in the UK ,is property.

1- they aren't making any more land (unless it's an estuary airport on someone else's money)
2- there is a housing shortage
3- the rate of building is not keeping pace with demand
4 - you get to live in your investment- (you pay the rent to yourself)
5- you can up-size as your prosperity grows, downsize after the kids have gone and you retire
6- because of (2+3) above, you can let a room at a nifty tax-free, non-declarable amount. which gives you a return and houses somebody...win all round!
7 Despite a couple of recessions in the last 20 years, overall, houses havebeen a far better investment than just about anything else.

(If you invested in gold at the right time, you'd have made a terrific return,only to see a massive lump wiped off overnight....If you'd bought at the peak..:eek: )

Do not trust ANY "financial expert"- if they were that bloody good at it, they wouldn't need to be working and trying to dip their hands in your pocket, would they?

[mixture]

Do not trust ANY "financial expert"- if they were that bloody good at it, they wouldn't need to be working and trying to dip their hands in your pocket, would they?


"Do not trust ANY financial expert" says the man who says the way to secure ones financial future is in property ! :ugh::ugh:

Do not tarnish all financial advisors with the same brush, there are lots of genuinely good ones out there .... and its not particularly hard to avoid the bad eggs (they tend to work for banks and other large institutions where there is a bias towards their company's own products).

Despite a couple of recessions in the last 20 years, overall, houses havebeen a far better investment than just about anything else.

Oh really ? Statements like that help demonstrate my point !

Look at a 10/15 year stock chart of Unilever plc or British American Tobacco plc and tell me if you still believe the nonsense you are spouting....

Not only has the price gone way up, but they've consistently paid and increased dividends over the years ... win..win....

Much cheaper to run a portfolio of fundamentally sound shares than to run a portfolio of properties....

Oh wait, did I forget to remind you of what happened in 2008 when people mortgaged themselves up to the hilt because they wanted to get onto the property buy-to-let bandwagon because property was such an awesome investment ?

[cockney steve]

Ha HA...selective quoting....you haven't told us about the banking crisis, the collapse of the stockmarket and how these unethicaland immoral peopletook huge bonuses of realmoney from customer's resources, on the basis that ON PAPER they had made an enormous profit.

You quote 2 shares among hundreds,if not thousands.....the vast majority performed far worse....seeabove,alsore-readand see how my "highly profitable,professionally-managed" pension plan and endowment, both profited only the "experts" and the sellers of the business ....Oh,yes, they decide it doesn't fitin with their "core-business" any longer, so deal it on and trouser a load of cash.
You can live in a house...that saves rent whilst you enjoy a capital growth (provided, like your shares, you didn't grossly overpay for the wrong thing inthe wrong place at the wrong time. ) If property was such a poorinvestment, there wouldn't be these financial gurus setting up funds to specifically invest in real-estate (again, they take a big skim of cream off the punter's cash,with absolutely no personal risk )....

Stockmarket is gambling, pure and simple....the only time that shares actually get "cashed-in" and their true value is realised (buggerall) is when a firm goes bust....otherwise, the value assigned is a Notional one and it's the emperor's new clothes....pass the parceland pretend it's value is X....Only, sometimes, the players lie and cheat ...so, the underlying assets are worth 1.5X....Mr Spiv and his cohorts take control of the company, asset-strip it and again, trouser what rightfully belonged to the shareholders but,the small men don't understand any of this,and even if they did, they are not part of "the club" so they have to accept the deal and whatever crumbs they are offered, while the big boys keep the cake.

Perhaps, Mixture, you can tell us how one spots an honest, high integrity, moral and ethical financial advisor... You have already confirmed that those employed by banks are as straight as a corkscrew,
I refuse to believe that all independents are good at their job .
It is a bit late, 10, 20, 30 years down the line, to find that the huge carrot that was laying on the plate, was only a picture....the tiny real one, well,they ate most of that, but ,see the green leaves appearing....theyare the shoots of recovery, leave your money with us and we'll rinse and repeat..

[mixture]

cockney steve,

You are still putting forward a preposterously nonsensical rose-tinted view of property.

Property is an illiquid asset class, not sold on a recognised market and where valuation is a matter of opinion.

Shares are liquid, sold on exchanges and valuation is openly determined by the market bid/ask activity.

you haven't told us about the banking crisis, the collapse of the stockmarket

The banking crisis was largely caused by you silly property types mortgaging yourselves to the hilt and being unable to repay your mortgages, which lead to banks being left with a whole load of debt. U.S. subprime mortgages etc...... remember those ? That's where it all started... from the first paragraph of Wikipedia "The U.S. subprime mortgage crisis was a nationwide banking emergency that coincided with the U.S. recession of December 2007-June 2009. It was triggered by a large decline in home prices, resulting in mortgage delinquencies and foreclosures and the devaluation of housing-related securities".

What's that Steve ? "triggered by a large decline in home prices" ? Surely not ! :}

What stock market collapse ? Its hardly a blip on those 10-15 year charts ?

You quote 2 shares among hundreds,if not thousands.....the vast majority performed far worse

I quoted two as an example ! There are many more good examples where that came from !

If you're unable to pick decent shares, that's not my problem... that's what a decent financial advisor is there to help you with !

provided, like your shares, you didn't grossly overpay for the wrong thing inthe wrong place at the wrong time.

So you're admitting that property is not such a fine investment then ? Plus there' no way you'll get the same capital and income growth form property as you'll get from shares unless you own something in a prime location.

there wouldn't be these financial gurus setting up funds to specifically invest in real-estate.

Utter bull.

There are funds available in all sorts of asset classes.

The reason they set up property funds (or other asset funds) is to enable investors to diversify their portfolio and invest in specific asset classes.

The funds are setup specifically for asset classes, not as a reflection of the quality of the asset and the desirability to invest in it ... its up to you to decide whether its a good idea to invest in a specific asset class. Asset-class specific funds are there to provide you with a means to invest in such assets if you want or need to invest in such assets.

again, they take a big skim of cream off the punter's cash,with absolutely no personal risk )....

Yes, well, the professional investment managers I know refuse to touch most funds ... they can do demonstrably better with individual shares and it costs the customer less.

Stockmarket is gambling, pure and simple.

You have no idea what you're talking about do you !

Stockmarket is no more of a gamble then your property investment.

Perhaps, Mixture, you can tell us how one spots an honest, high integrity, moral and ethical financial advisor...

Quite frankly, given your attitude, I can't be bothered waste any more time on you.

There are honest, high integrity, moral and ethical financial advisors out there ... I can say that with strong conviction because I know some of them, I've seen some of the portfolios they run, I've been in the room whilst they're on the phone to clients, I've seen the amount of background research and review of the client's portfolio they do before they call the client .... they take their work very seriously indeed.... and the only money they make is a small commission whenever a client makes an occasional trade (and before you try to spin that story.... they only trade once a month at most.... they're not flogging shares every day to the client just to make the commission numbers !!!!)... no annual charges.

But you're not genuinely interested in knowing how to find such people, so I'm not going to waste time telling you.

[MaximumPete]

Interesting posts gentlemen. There no getting away from the fact that there is a risk, no matter how small, when it comes to investing for your retirement. You have only look at the government raising the pensionable age arbitrarily.

The information I was given when I joined the company pension scheme was straight forward. You paid in, the company paid in and when you retired you knew exactly what you would get. There were no health or benefit warnings of any sort.

The bottom line is we trusted the company scheme to provide for us during our hopefully long and happy retirements.

Alas this was not to be!:ouch: