Private jet crashed at Moscow Airport Vnukovo: 4 killed

[Eclectic]

https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/524303279346294785

In Russian: ?????? ???????? ??????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ??????? - ?????? ?? ??????? ???????? ? LIFE | NEWS (http://lifenews.ru/mobile/news/143197)

[vovachan]

It had been reported that due to fog some 10 flights had been diverted to DME.

[robbreid]

RT News currently reporting 4 dead in bizjet crash Moscow - awaiting details

[Mechta]

"Rescuers can not begin to extinguish a private plane that crashed in "Vnukovo " . SOS signal from the ship, entered when the plane was still in the air . Pilots reported the fire engine and fuselage damage. After a few minutes the plane sat rigidly . Because of the impact he had buckled the chassis and it overturned. Almost immediately he was completely in flames . Rescuers cannot begin to extinguish the fire for fear of explosion of the fuel tanks. According to preliminary data, killing all four people on board."

[Astra driver]

Crude Google translate,

Rescuers can not begin to extinguish a private plane that crashed in "Vnukovo". SOS signal from the ship, entered when the plane was still in the air. Pilots reported the fire engine and fuselage damage.

After a few minutes the plane sat rigidly. Because of the impact he had buckled the chassis and it overturned. Almost immediately he was completely in flames. Rescuers can not begin to extinguish the fire for fear of explosion of the fuel tanks. According to preliminary data, killing all four people on board.

[FLEXJET]

http://rt.com/news/197648-moscow-vnukovo-jet-crash/

still unclear

[Eclectic]

Lenta.ru: ??????: ????????????: ??? ???????? ? ???????? ???????? ???????? ?? ??????? (http://lenta.ru/news/2014/10/21/vnukovo/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)


A private plane crashed on the night of Tuesday, October 21, at Moscow's Vnukovo. Killing three crew members and passengers aboard, reports "Interfax" referring to a source at the airport.

Dassault Falcon 50 plane crashed during takeoff. It clarifies the RIA Novosti news agency, the plane flying from Vnukovo-3 in Paris.

Cause of the crash, as a source told "Interfax", was a collision with a snowblower. Source Tass said that the crash occurred in heavy fog. At the same time Lifenews argues that the cause of the accident was a fire in one of the engines.

None of the passengers and crew survived. Airport due to PE closed: on the runway are the wreckage, which was burnt down. Now working at the scene rescue services.

Dassault Falcon 50 - reactive three-motor plane business class long range. He is able to take on board up to nine passengers. The plane was made of the French Dassault Aviation Corporation from 1976 to 2008.

[Romasik]

Collided with either a Snow Plow or Follow Me car on the RW during takeoff in fog.

[Jet Jockey A4]

Initial reports are confusing but they say it's a Falcon 50 with 3 crew members and one passenger and they are all dead.

There was heavy fog and the airplane would have hit either a snowplow of a Follow Me car on takeoff.

[JB LFPN FLYER]

French News TV BFM TV says the CEO of Total petrol company may have been on board.
Apparently collided with snow removal vehicule on takeoff run.

[fleigle]

Some big cheese at Total Oil Co..
As always, tragic. !!!

[con-pilot]

RT is saying that it was a Falcon 50, but showing a Falcon 900.

http://rt.com/news/197648-moscow-vnukovo-jet-crash/

It appears that they hit a snowplow on takeoff, managed to get airborne and then crashed while attempting to land.

But then again, it is "appears", so take nothing as firm.

[jfkjohan]

I hope this wasn't a case of foreign language ATC vs. english-only proficient pilots. If LVP was enforced and controllers were talking to ground movement in a different language, SA could be greatly & negatively influenced. Crew might not even know what was/still is/will be on the runway!

Yes this shouldn't have happened, but i stand wishing that we all can one day just speak one language so that all can be understood. Until then, gear up techies! TCAS for ground movement too? If there was such a thing.

[TC_Ukraine]

official info from Vnukovo airport. use google translate
corp.vnukovo.ru/press/news/ob-aviatsionnom-proisshestvii-proizoshedshem-v-noch-s-20-na-21-oktyabrya-2014-goda/

[TWT]

Total oil CEO Christophe de Margerie killed in Moscow plane crash | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/21/total-oil-ceo-christophe-de-margeriekilled-in-moscow-plane-crash-say-reports)

[ecureilx]

Controversial CEO of oil giant Total killed in private jet plane crash after aircraft hit snow plough on take-off from Moscow airport | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2801007/controversial-ceo-oil-giant-total-killed-private-jet-plane-crash-aircraft-hit-snow-plough-moscow-airport.html)

[5 APUs captain]

Took off from RW06 in a fog.
Hit the snow removal truck.
The reason still unclear, there is no info at the moment, stop the speculations.

[FLEXJET]

It appears that the Falcon involved is 50EX F-GLSA operated by Unijet.

image - HostingPics.net - Hébergement d'images gratuit (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=754791image.jpg)

Aircraft Registration Photos - F-GLSA - JetPhotos.Net Aviation Photos (http://jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?regsearch=F-GLSA)

[ettore]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29699733

[blind pew]

Sky just carried report that the snow plough driver drunk.....:ugh:

[Trim Stab]

French press are reporting that the plane hit a snowplough on the runway. The snowplough driver (who was drunk) survived.

[20milesout]

Do they have ground radar there?

“Some of the main theories being investigated at this time are a mistake by air traffic control and the actions of the snowplow driver. Bad weather conditions and the possibility of a mistake by the pilot will also be considered”http://rt.com/news/197700-total-plane-crash-driver/

[Tinytim]

A drunk Russian snowplough driver.......

Why are those of us who frequent this awful place not surprised?

[surely not]

There are several companies that provide positional maps for powered ground equipment. They use GPS to show position on the airport and also show movement. The version I know also gives details of type of equipment, drivers name etc etc.

[His dudeness]

Why are those of us who frequent this awful place not surprised?

Because you thought it is a safe place, especially since the Russian ground engineers now decide wether you de-ice or nor, naturally not to the benefit of the same company they are employed with.... :ugh:

BTW, you should have been there 20+ years ago, back then it really was awful...

[deefer dog]

How very convenient for the Russian authorities to have discovered so quickly that the snow plough driver was drunk!

Report concluded............some poor lamb has been thrown to slaughter to cover up the numerous deficiencies at that dump of an airpport!

[thf]

Information of MAK (in Russian):
Falcon 50EX F-GLSA 20.10.2014 (http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2014/falcon_f-glsa.html)

FDR and CVR are already in their possession and currently read out. French investigators are on the way and will join the investigation.

Fields of enquiry are (apart from the recorders): ground control and tower recordings, CCTV recordings, radar recordings, weather conditions, condition of aircraft (before and after crash), actions of airport staff, controllers, pilots.

[PAX_Britannica]

How very convenient for the Russian authorities to have discovered so quickly that the snow plough driver was drunk!

Report concluded............some poor lamb has been thrown to slaughter to cover up the numerous deficiencies at that dump of an airport! Yeah. Best to be sceptical about any "news" out of Russia. It might well be true, but we seem to be back in a Soviet- or even Nazi- style era of news management. Would be more credible if the reporter had been murdered since the report.

[jetopa]

BTW, you should have been there 20+ years ago, back then it really was awful...

... which is unfortunately true.

Too early to speculate, but knowing the place I wouldn't be surprised if the reason for this will be established as a failure of one single person. In Russia, it can never be an organization or larger group that takes responsibility for a failure of any kind.

Bear that in mind and be careful out there. Winter and bad weather are coming.

[robbreid]

https://twitter.com/bizjet101

Video from accident site; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQnVkvr40Uw

[Luc Lion]

@deefer dog:

Typical conspiracy theory !

It is a fact that test results for alcohol intoxication of survivors who played a role in an accident are quickly available.

This intoxication may or may not be a causal factor.

[set_default]

Testing the guy who cleared the plow driver out onto the runway would be another thing to do. As well as the testing those who employed and trained them all. Now THAT would be sobering for some who have never been there.

[Global_Global]

:suspect:

Russian prosecutors claim the driver of the snowplow which crashed with Total CEO Christophe de Margerie’s jet was drunk. His lawyer, however, says he was completely sober, due to a heart condition preventing him from drinking.
“My client is suffering from an acute heart condition; he does not drink at all and his relatives and friends can testify to that,” Aleksandr Karabanov, the lawyer, said.
“He was sober at the time of the crash,” he also said, adding that a number of lawyers will be involved in Martynenkov’s defense. “We don’t want the blame for the accident to fall on an ordinary man,” he added.
Karabanov also made clear that he will insist on an independent expertise to determine the presence of alcohol in his client's bloodstream.

[Heathrow Harry]

BBC quoting the Govt - sounds like a fair summary of the various factors they need to look at


Russia's emergencies ministry said in a statement the accident had involved a Falcon-50 plane shortly before midnight local time (20:00 GMT) on Monday.

"Among the chief versions for what happened, investigators are looking at a mistake by the air traffic controllers and the actions of the driver of the snow plough. Apart from that, they will also check the versions of poor weather conditions and mistake by the crew," said Russia's Investigative Committee, a federal agency that answers to President Putin.


"At the current time, it has already been established that the driver of the snow plough was drunk."



Pictures from the scene show the driver looking shocked, but walking unaided and without any obvious serious injury.


Reports say the visibility at airport was 350m (1,150ft

[Pappa Delta]

I hope the French investigators will take a real good look at the bloodtest and it's results of this snowplough driver.

[jcjeant]

Le Figaro:
EN DIRECT - Mort de Margerie : la France perd «un grand capitaine d'industrie» (http://www.lefigaro.fr/economie/2014/10/21/20003-20141021LIVWWW00056-en-direct-deces-de-christophe-de-margerie-le-patron-de-total.php#124001)
A "criminal negligence" in causing the accident
The plane crash in which perished the head of French oil giant Total, Christophe de Margerie, the Vnokouvo Moscow airport is due to "criminal negligence" in the direction of the airport, said Tuesday the committee Russian investigation.

"This is not a tragic set of circumstances, but criminal negligence of officials" failed to properly coordinate the work of their employees, the committee said, adding that some members of the management Vnukovo who might try to obstruct the investigation would soon be "suspended from duty."

[radarlove]

And the press just keep on giving (or grasping at straws).

Here RT, that well known yet hardly respected Russian broadcaster, says ... well look at the graphic at 3'52".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmkH3h-tbGk

If I was the owner of this 900, I'd be making a beeline for my rolladeck and 'L' for lawyer ...

[Pappa Delta]

Wow, they are really fast in drawing the conclusions. Crazy fingerpointing?

Did they fully analyze the tapes already in such a short time?

[n6330v]

Very unfortunate.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/21/1413904384954_wps_7_An_investigator_looks_at_.jpg

[jackx123]

I hope the French investigators will take a real good look at the bloodtest and it's results of this snowplough driver

Where is the snow?

[hamster3null]

Terma claims that their surface movement radar is installed in Vnukovo: http://www.terma.com/media/195921/smr_ref_reduced_version_may2012__.pdf

It would seem that either the ATC was asleep at the wheel (figuratively speaking) or the SMR was out of order. The snow plow guy could have driven onto the wrong runway by accident, and failsafe systems meant to prevent this kind of collision somehow malfunctioned.

[jetopa]

Aaaargh - so much disinformation already less than 24h after the accident... :ugh:

About questioning the pilot's decision to take off: well, I assume they did LVTO training at FSI (the BEA will certainly find out about that) and - voilá - a takeoff in 350m vis shouldn't have posed a problem.

About no proper de-icing: valid point but :mad:. The airplane crashed because it hit a vehicle on the runway during takeoff.

Pressure from the passenger or get-home-itis: :mad: again. See above.

It seems to be obvious what happened. Now it only has to be established why on earth this vehicle and the fast moving Falcon were on the same runway at the same time.

Should be easy enough to find out, one should think, but let's see...

[CaptainProp]

Another "expert" (in the YouTube clip link above) makes statements about something he has absolutely no ******* clue about. What an idiot.....

[deefer dog]

And as for Russia meeting the standards and recommended practices of ICAO....another joke, like their airports, airport managers, and the medieval way in which airport officials behave...like robots of a despotic state!

[20milesout]

jetopa:
...why on earth this vehicle and the fast moving Falcon were on the same runway at the same time:ok:

Exactly this is the question. Everything else is nothing more than contributing factors at this point, if at all.

[Astra driver]

Let's just hope the snow plow driver wasn't a Ukranian, then the conspiracy theories will really start flying!

[hamster3null]

Vnukovo has two intersecting runways. Early indications are that the jet was taking off on one, the snow plow was cleaning the other, and they just happened to meet at the intersection of two runways at the same time.

[Shore Guy]

Sigh......

In my mind, the most dangerous place to be in a powered aircraft is on the surface.

Remember, the most awful accident in aviation history is the collision on the ground of two 747's at Tenerife.

It will be interesting to see the sophistication of the surface surveillance system in place (and whether it was operational or compromised). And whether it provided any warnings to ATC prior to impact.

The problem with all surface surveillance systems in place around the world right now is, regardless of their sophistication, the warning software only activates in the tower. By the time the threat is (1) announced, (2) recognized (3) reacted to (4) warning issued to aircraft/surface vehicle involved (5) warning recognized (assuming transmission not "blocked" (6) and warning reacted to, well the event is already over.

The only way to solve this problem with existing technologies is the put the warning in the cockpit as well as ATC. The only way to do this is with ADS-B technology.

I was involved in the research of this application. It is promising. But, to initiate, it will involve full integration of "Next Gen" technology in all aircraft and surface vehicles.

I know I will not see this in my lifetime (and I am not that old). I wish it would.

Current surface systems, even at their most sophisticated level (ASDE-X), are still limited by the above limitations. Cockpit annunciations of conflict must be incorporated to enhance surface safety. That technology would have saved this accident from happening, along with many others.

And, surface guidance must be provided in the cockpit. One of the great ironies in aviation is that Part 25 aircraft are being delivered with the capability of navigating around the world within meters of assigned route, achieving an autoland with virtual zero visibility, then clear the runway and be guided to the gate by a paper document and compass. Taxi out with the same technology.Bizarre.

Surface vehicles can purchase (Garmin) GPS equipment that shows surface position. Part 25 aircraft cannot unless equipped with Class III EFB's. (Maybe Class II's by now? Not sure).

Boeing has a system installed in their 777 research simulator that provides surface guidance (magenta line) for ground operations. Delivered by CPDLC.

The Falcon 50 involved could well have been a large transport aircraft, with the result being hundreds of fatalities. This story will be relegated to page 3 or later because of the relative low number of fatalities.

Hopefully, the aviation press will attach the great significance to this event that it deserves.

[Sunamer]

Snowplower driver says he didn't see any lights of the approaching aircraft, didn't hear any noise due to the noises of the snowplower and he also says he lost orientation and didn't know he was approaching the active runway.

"I lost orientation and didn't notice when I ended up on the runway" said Vladimir during the interview with investigators.

"The aircraft was taking off and I almost didn't see it, didn't hear it, because of the working snowplower".
(don't ask me why he used the word "almost" and how it is possible to "almost not see" something -nonetheless, it is the exact word he used)

"There were no lights, nothing, I didn't see a thing..and then there was a collision", he added.

The driver has been working in Vnukovo for 10 years.

Medical personnel in Vnukovo confirmed that the driver was absolutely sober at the beginning of his shift and that he was allowed to start the shift in accordance with the regulations.

http://top.rbc.ru/society/22/10/2014/54474451cbb20f63ae234f11#xtor=AL-[internal_traffic]--[rbc.ru]-[main_body]-[main_item]-[title]

[jetopa]

@ Shore Guy: very good point. I'd like to see that sort of equipment, too.

@ Surnamer: I am surprised to read the snowplower's declaration at this stage already. Normally, one would expect these kind of things to be said in front of investigators, most likely in the presence of an attorney - and behind closed doors.

Which again leads me to my suspicion that in this country nobody is interested in digging deep and finding uncomftortable truths leading to uncomfortable questions.

Finding a probable scapegoat so early on must be convenient. :ok:

[transilvana]

Been flying out of VKO last 8 years, this was an accident to happen sooner or later. Ruskies have improved a lot since I first flew into VKO but still are way too far from standards in all country.

Knowing VKO I can be sure crash happened on runway intersection, no lights or signs that tell you are entering either runway so truck driver just entered it with no idea he was on it. Rest is speculation and bad luck.

[Kulverstukas]

Total's CEO Christophe de Margerie dies in Moscow plane crash

Christophe de Margerie, the chief executive of French oil company Total, has died in an air crash in Moscow.

His corporate jet collided with a snow plough and was then engulfed in flames. All four people on board were killed.

Crash occured at 23:58MSK 20-09-2014 at bad weather takeoff from RWY06 (mist with 350m visibility) at intersection after plane hit snowplug with (from different sources) right wing or nose gear.

http://aviaforum.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=459598&d=1413954059

tnQC4XpCO10

hOy5kmHk53s

x0uajlbi5HQ
(...when I lost direction...and doesn't recognise that I drove to the runaway...let's assume that I drove to rwy... have not noticed that she begin takeoff... I heard and see nothing, because technics was working...no lights, nothing... and than impact... )

[5 APUs captain]

1. The driver had to stop 100 meters before RWs intersection, but due to fog he could not see any markings or lights (what he says).
2. The investigation will be VERY deep, because VIP passenger was VERY important investor.

[JamesGV]

"It has also been revealed that the taxiing shortly before the crash was being coordinated by a traffic control intern, RIA Novosti was told by a source inside Vnukovo. The official spokesman for the airport has declined to comment".


Report carried by RT News
http://rt.com/news/197740-video-plane-total-crash/


Note of Caution
RT news also carried "library photos" of the jet concerned.
However... that was a 900 belonging to NJE

[beamender99]

BBC News - Moscow Total plane crash snowplough driver 'got lost' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29722498)

A snowplough driver at a Moscow airport has said he lost his bearings before a collision with a private plane in which Total boss Christophe de Margerie died.

Vladimir Martynenkov told Russian TV he was unaware he had entered the runway.

[Ular]

Gentlemen,
The snowplough driver has said exactly what his attorney instructed him to.

[J.O.]

... or maybe he said what really happened. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?

[Less Hair]

Is it true that the lawyer now suddenly admits that the driver in fact had a drop or two?

[PURPLE PITOT]

That depends upon how much "pressure" has been applied.

[vovachan]

The spox of the investigating authority said:

"By now it is obvious that the crash was caused by the negligence of officials who did not bother to make sure airport staff were doing their jobs. Instead they claim it was a tragic coincidence"

[Ular]

The Driver got same day (immediately) TWO attorneys which must have cost him more money that he may earn for all his life. So, somebody paid for those attorneys. What for? Just to let them stay aside and look what the driver is telling to investigators? The situation with attorneys and driver is quite obvious for those who live in/know Russia.


??? ?????? :: ???????? ???????? ?? '???????'. ???????? ?????? ???????????? ????????? ??????????: ????????? ????????? (http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/razvorot/1422712-echo/#mmvideo)

very interesting interview of attorney, BTW
(for non-Russian speaking - you may press the left button above the video window and switch to "text" then use google translator or similar to see the attorney's comments)

[hamster3null]

The Driver got same day (immediately) TWO attorneys which must have cost him more money that he may earn for all his life. So, somebody paid for those attorneys. What for? Just to let them stay aside and look what the driver is telling to investigators? The situation with attorneys and driver is quite obvious for those who live in/know Russia.


One key thing to understand is that Russia has no adversarial system of law. Unlike in the West, where the attorney and the prosecutor compete to convince an impartial judge or a jury, in Russia the prosecutor and the judge are parts of the penal system (which works so reliably that acquittal rates among cases that reach the court are under 1%). This system was inherited from the Soviet Union, where the attorney was a state employee as well.
Since the attorney has no realistic hope of getting his client off the hook once his case reaches the court, his best hope is to work early and closely with investigators, to cooperate as much as possible while trying to redirect blame to someone else, in hopes that the prosecutor decides not to file the case.

One of the biggest reasons why suspects are advised not to talk to anyone in the West is that the suspect could be confronted with his early statements during the trial, and if the prosecutor can demonstrate inconsistencies or evidence of him lying to the jury, that is thought to push the jury towards the guilty verdict. In a non-adversarial, non-jury system this is irrelevant.

[pcpmitch]

Every image I have seen of this incident has no snow, so what was a snow blower doing anywhere near the runway?

[MikeNYC]

Every image I have seen of this incident has no snow, so what was a snow blower doing anywhere near the runway?

Positioning machinery on the airfield in advance of snow arrival, or en route to/from maintenance?

[mutt]

or en route to/from maintenance? On a runway?

[Andrewgr2]

There's snow visible in some of the shots in the RT video linked from post #12. Whether they were current, or library, shots is arguable but there is certainly snow on the ground round the 747.

[roulishollandais]

What was Margerie doing hiden in Moscoow vusiting the Russian first Minister during the ukrainian problem àfter MH17???

[MikeNYC]

On a runway?

Crossing a runway? Sure, why not?

[Green Guard]

Vladimir Martynenko ? Can anybody please compare? Does that name sound more like Russian or Ukrainian or both ?

[mutt]

Sure, why not? In order to avoid situations like this?

[LGW Vulture]

Conspiracy theories again from some posters. However, Margerie was known to be a non-political animal when it came to his industry. His mantra was always politics / wars must not get in the way of oil exploration. Very matter of fact and well known and respected for it.

[Sop_Monkey]

If I repeat If, language was a contributory factor in this sad event then who do we blame? As I understand it the agreed common aviation language is English (and of course French, Spanish, Russian. etc., etc..) Why? Because it is the most widely spoken language in the world, so anyone with a half a brain would clearly see the benefits of using this most common language, from a safety aspect alone. However in a lot of cases, national pride takes the front seat, over safety and common sense. This intransigence has been a contributory factor in air accidents in the past.

I rest my case.

[His dudeness]

Acc. to "Tagesschau" 4 people in custody, 2 from ATC (the ATCO and her superior) and the "leading engineer for snow plowing", one from the "Flugaufsicht" (what ever that is in RUS). Director and deputy director of the airport have resigned according to the same article....

In German:

Nach Unfall auf Moskauer Flughafen: Festnahmen nach Tod des Total-Chefs | tagesschau.de (http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/flughafen-moskau-101.html)

The snow plow driver has amended his statement - his lawyer said - "he might have had a few drops of alcohol".

I guess Mr.Putin is on a crusade....

[His dudeness]

Because it is the most widely spoken language in the world,

And is relatively easy to learn and it is easy to transport a lot of info clearly and quickly in English. So yes, it would be good.

However, if the driver was not sober, or just lost, English might not have saved the day.

The reaction in Russia right now seems to make a neutral accident investigation/report less likely than I would like it to be.

But maybe the MAK and others will surprise us all.

[Jet Jockey A4]

WTH are you talking about?

What does language have to do with this?

Are you suggesting the French crew spoke in French in Russia to ATC and the Russians spoke in Russian to the French crew?

As for English being the most spoken language in the world you are wrong!

Mandarin (Chinese) is the most spoken language in the world almost 3 times more than English, followed by Spanish and then English. So by your logic we should learn Mandarin and/or Spanish to communicate in aviation but I know that will never happen because you have a hard time learning French.

[Sop_Monkey]

That didn't take long did it.

A4, would you agree a one common language would be beneficial for the sake of aviation safety? If so why not English? It is the most widely spoken language, not "mother tongue". To try and assist you with this, most people are able to speak English in the technical field such as aviation.

[M-ONGO]

because you have a hard time learning French

There speaks a French Canadian, eh? Enough said.

[Jet Jockey A4]

ICAO as many official languages (English, French and Spanish to name a few).

ICAO was born from the Chicago convention in 1944 where the meetings were done in English and so English was then thought to be the "de facto" language but it was not.

Also since most of the aircraft manufacturers were of English background (at that time) that helped re-enforced the notion that English was the "official" language.

However, ICAO rules states that the local language of a country is allowed to be used but that English should be available at the request of a flight crew.

Good luck with that in certain areas of the world my friend. Even in South America English is not available at some airports.

But back to your original post... You never answered my question. What does French or Russian language have to do with this crash?

[Jet Jockey A4]

I am not English nor French... I am a Canadian, period.

Just happens I am fluent in both of Canada's official languages.

And yes with Montreal/Ottawa ATC if flying with another francophone pilot I will communicate in French with ATC and I will do the same while flying in France.

[His dudeness]

He wrote:

If I repeat If, language was a contributory factor

vs.

ou never answered my question. What does French or Russian language have to do with this crash?

is a good example of the non-benefit of a common language if one side simply does not want to understand the others side point of view.

[Sop_Monkey]

Dude I could not have put that better myself.

[Jet Jockey A4]

I can read and appreciate the fact that he said "if I repeat If, language was a contributory factor" and I don't want to get into a pissing contest here but...

Perhaps I phrased my question incorrectly.

My point is why bring up the language subject at all?

If the aircraft had been a Canadian, American or English registered, would he have brought up the language issue?

[vovachan]

In the meantime the director general of VKO and his deputy have resigned and a number of other people are suspended and or arrested.

This is a VIP airport and major heads will roll

[Jet Jockey A4]

I agree the :mad: is about to hit the fan!

[con-pilot]

Every image I have seen of this incident has no snow, so what was a snow blower doing anywhere near the runway?

I asked the same question to a handler at that airport who was there when the accident happened, the vehicle in question is a multi-purpose vehicle made by Supra that was spraying anti-ice fluid on the taxiways.

[Jet Jockey A4]

Just saw the news here in Europe... 5 people under arrest while the investigation goes on.

The driver of the snow plow is said to have his blood alcohol level at twice the legal limit.

Also they showed the remains of the aircraft and yes you can still see some snow left over on the ground but most of the snow must have melted away.

[Harry O]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/heads-roll-russia-more-details-165311625.html#kkszTG0

[Dont worry]

Let me tell, you. I, myself landed there on RWY 06 just 10 minutes before it happened.
Lucky me, that the guy was driving around somewhere else at this time. Weather was ok, but quiet foggy with about 600-650m RVR.
But NO snow at all.
No reason at all, that they where driving around with snow plows.

[hamster3null]

Vladimir Martynenko ? Can anybody please compare? Does that name sound more like Russian or Ukrainian or both ?

"-ko" surname could indicate Ukrainian or Belarusian roots, though it is not definitive - e.g. his great-grandfather could be from the Ukraine and the rest of his family tree could be Russian.

A couple of Russian-language online newspapers report his birthplace as Volgograd region (southern Russia). He speaks with no Ukrainian accent.

[Above The Clouds]

It had been snowing quite heavily in the morning.

[deefer dog]

The new staff detained in the probe include a trainee air traffic controller who directed the doomed plane, her immediate supervisor and their boss and the head of the department responsible for clearing the runways.Yep, detain the trainee who was under supervision...only in Russia or China!

Vnukovo airport also said its general director and his deputy had resigned "due to the tragic event" after the management was accused of "criminal negligence" by investigators.However they have not been detained.Of course not. They are well protected!


The court said Vladimir Martynenko had a blood alcohol content of 0.6 grams of ethanol per litre of blood, compared to the legal limit of zero for driving in Russia.Would be interested to hear what limits a snowplough driver is required to adhere to. Bet it's not documented in the Snowplough Driver Ops Manual....not that such a document would exist in that mismanaged dump of an airport!

[vovachan]

Here is the release from MAK google translated and lightly edited

• Takeoff from runway 06 was carried out (magnetic heading 58 degrees) at taxiway A11. The distance from the start of take-off to the point of collision with Snow blower ~ 1000 meters. The collision occurred at the intersection of the runways (the so-called "crossing").
• At the time of take-off as the following weather conditions: surface wind 120 ° - 3 m / s; at the beginning of runway 06: visibility - 350m, RVR¹ - 1000m; in the middle of the runway 06: visibility - 1000m, RVR - 2100m; slight drizzle, fog.
• At the time of the event the aircraft was under the control of start dispatcher of "tower". Control of the aircraft was carried out by trainee dispatcher under the supervision of a training controller.
• When issuing a dispatcher clearance to take off the runway was clear. The crew confirmed cleared for takeoff.
• After about 10 seconds after the confirmation by the crew of permission to take off the subsystem monitoring the airfield in the control point "tower" recorded movement of the snow thrower on the left edge of the runway 19 in a southerly direction towards the crossing.
• Neither a Request for permission for crossing the runway by the snowplow nor other communications were recorded on the tower audio recorder between the crew confirmed permission to take off and the accident.
• After ~ 14 seconds after the beginning of the aircraft take-off the crew observed an object, identified by them as "car crossing the road" (a phrase in French). The observation of this object did not cause concern and crew continued the take-off in the usual manner in compliance with standard operating procedures. ~ 14 seconds later the aircraft collided with a snowplow. The crew saw the snowplow just before the collision, after the normal command to lift the nose wheel.
• At the moment of collision with a snowplow the aircraft was in the air, the indicated airspeed was about 134 knots (~ 248 km / h). After the collision began to develop intensively right bank, which led to the collision of the aircraft with the ground.
• Failures in the operation of the aircraft systems and engines prior to the collision with a snowplow have not been identified.

[Jet Jockey A4]

Very unfortunate and talk about bad timing.

[transilvana]

Those who know Russia and VKO quite well can tell thousand of different stories over there. To resume, ruskies still don´t get it, think like Klingons and alcohol is deep on their standard operation, it´s even on the "how to use snow brush manual"

VKO is one of the most expensive airports in the world, if they find something to charge they will overpriced it 1000%. They have improved a lot since 10 years ago but still don´t get it.

If you remove all western bizjet pilots and get ruskies to do the job you will have 10 accidents daily over there.

[Green Guard]

Promises promises !!! Or lets pray "my job isn't taken away "... ????
Another words, all other airports without gaijin pilots are already closed !?!?
Are they ?

[deefer dog]

Promises promises !!! Or lets pray "my job isn't taken away "... ????
Another words, all other airports without gaijin pilots are already closed !?!?
Are they ?

What? Could you type that again please...in English!

[Jonathan Penny]

Twenty three year old female trainee air traffic controller is the only person who has been formally charged with causing death of the passenger and the crew of this aircraft.

Knowing the Russian justice system's record, god help her.

??????????-??????? «???????» ??????????? ????????? ?? ???? ? ???????? ???????? ?????????? Total - ??????? Slon (http://slon.ru/fast/russia/dispetcheru-stazheru-vnukovo-predyavleno-obvinenie-po-delu-o-krushenii-samoleta-prezidenta-total-1178096.xhtml)

Svetlana Krivsun, aircraft controller, charged with causing death of*Christophe de Margerie | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2812804/Glamorous-rookie-aircraft-controller-duty-Total-oil-chief-killed-runway-crash-formally-charged-death.html)

[SpringHeeledJack]

Good that they have a scapegoat now. As to how a trainee, therefore unqualified, is being held liable and not her superiors et al is 'interesting'...

[HpH304S]

Unbelievable :ugh:

[ATC Watcher]

That is what Public Prosecutors everywhere do unfortunately, looking for persons to blame to satisfy the public!:rolleyes:

Does someone has the orginal Russian MAK statement reference (or web site ) posted earlier here by Vovachan ?

[jetopa]

In other countries, lawyers would stand in line for getting her number and representing her in a high profile case after which (besides helping their own career) we would probably see her getting away without a scratch.

Then she'd sell her story and the movie rights to the highest bidder. :ok:

[atakacs]

A video has been posted: LifeNews ????????? ????? ???????? Falcon ?? ??????? - ?????? ?? ??????? ???????? ? LIFE | NEWS (http://lifenews.ru/news/144917)

I'm still surprised that the pilots did not seem to bother about the vehicle - apparently clearly visible - crossing the runway.

[CaptainProp]

I could be wrong but looking at the clip several times I don't think they hit the vehicle you see coming in, relatively close to the camera, from left to right. When the explosion occurs this vehicle seems to be far from where explosion erupts.

CP

[Above The Clouds]

That video is taken from right side of rwy 01 looking towards the centre of the airfield.

[atakacs]

Interesting remarks... still the CVR seems to have recorded the pilots noticing a vehicle. I'd guess one more hole in the cheese.

[deefer dog]

I could be wrong but looking at the clip several times I don't think they hit the vehicle you see coming in, relatively close to the camera, from left to right. When the explosion occurs this vehicle seems to be far from where explosion erupts. I agree. Also the lights of the vehicle that passed the camera appear to be flashing after the tragic event.

[jcjeant]

Hi,

It was reported a fog this day
This video not show evidence of fog .. seems good visibility on ground
Seems that on the video .. the aircraft had already collided with the machine (this not captured on the video) and out of control

[roulishollandais]

The last time I bought "Charlie Hebdo" was after the crash. Comment from the Economist Bernard Maris killed yesterday by terrorists.