e Gates Passport checks

[Kiltrash]

At the risk of ridicule can I ask the collective thoughts at e Gate passport checks at UK Airports

I have the missfortune to fly through London Airports on Business often to & from EU and I find the process at other countrys Airports simple, swift and efficient to have a gun toting Border guard in a glass booth look up and agree the person in front of them is the pasport holder

A different story at London Airports

Having renewed the passport 18 months ago only once have I gained admission through the UK e gates, even though the supplied passport photograph was checked by a Policeman before submitting to the Passport Agency. So it is definatly ME!!!

and its not just me that is refused entry as e gates, I estimate 10% of their 'customers' are re directed to a manual desk, and then allowed through, on a one to one

The question for considderation, Is it the Border Agency staff not being able to match the photopraph on the passport with the person in the booth transmitted to their TV screen the trouble with the system, or that as they have 6 booths under their control ( to reduce manning levels)and they need to refuse admittance, (to show they are doing their jobs) or a revolt by the staff to ensure the expected staff savings prommised by the e gates does not happen?

Incomming

[p.j.m]

Why do you think it was your photograph that caused you to be directed to see a real immigration officer?

Any number of things can cause this, including if you have come in from a country with Ebola or Yellow fever, where they have to manually check your health/immunisations etc.

Maybe the egate detected you had an above normal temperature or something!

[ZFT]

Used it now 5 times at LHR T2 and so far no issues. Mrs ZFT has used it a similar number of times with same result.

[wiggy]

Kiltrash

I really doubt it's anything personal, or any exotic diseases or destinations, I suspect it's down to those darned machines and/or your passport.

My success rate when entering the UK at LHR/LGW from Mainland Europe, when off duty and using my chipped passport, was probably less than 50% when the readers were introduced (oh how I miss Iris :E:sad:). I eventually found removing my (clear) glasses :8 and also pressing down firmly on the passport page when it was on the machine reader improved matters but I still fail about 10% of the time. BTW if your passport photo page has been creased or folded at some point that can cause problems with the readers, so that might be worth checking.

OTOH when I enter the UK on duty I go through different gates but through the same immigration hall. In those instances my machine readable airline ID has worked 100% of the time, so I certainly suspect my now occasional failures to get in as a "civvy" are down to the machines/passport combination, rather than "Border" wanting to see me personally when I enter the UK..


Is it the Border Agency staff not being able to match the photograph on the passport with the person in the booth transmitted to their TV screen

I may be wrong but I don't think anyone is sitting anywhere remote checking your picture from the booth, I think that's supposed to be an automated process using facial recognition software....and quite possibly therein lies the problem.

[Heathrow Harry]

Most of the ones in use in Europe are automatic scanning and recognition but if it puts up a query there is someone in a booth who can look at a camera and make a decision

I suspect the UK ones do away with the remote operator and just shunt you to a manned desk if there is a problem - I certainly have more failures in the UK than anywhere else

[wiggy]

H H

I suspect the UK ones do away with the remote operator and just shunt you to a manned desk if there is a problem

That's also my understanding of how it works.

AFAIK the lady/gent in the booth next to the e-gates is not remotely checking everybody going through the e-gates, that should be handled by the automatic side of things (e.g. face recognition, data on the passport chip).

The Border Force Officer is there to act as a manual back up should the e-gate say "no", and I suspect that's more likely to be down to technical reasons (e.g. unable to perform the facial recognition) than because the individual is on some list.

If the OP is consistently failing to get through the e-gates I suspect there's something subtly amiss with the data being carried on the passport.....but excuses aside I agree, whatever the reason it's ****** annoying, and so far the e-gates system is nowhere near as good/consistent/slick as the aforementioned Iris system (then again not many used Iris, perhaps that's why it seemed so slick).

[Ancient Observer]

Nowadays I only fly about 6-8 times a year. On vacation. (Benefit of being Ancient). Have had zero problems with machines at lgw and lhr. I always take my glasses off.
OP might need to have passport checked over??

[Hotel Tango]

Only tend to use BHX in the UK, so I can only comment on that airport. I have had no problems, when they're actually in use that is! Recently, when arriving at a peak time, I found it quicker via the kiosk queue then waiting in the e-gate queue. The problem with the e-gates when busy is that you have to choose your lane and then hope that those in front of you in your chosen lane don't have any problems. My experience is that processing time through the e-gates generally takes a minimum of twice the time it takes to go through a manned kiosk.

[PAXboy]

Methinks the Home Office are not concerned with our time - only with them saving headcount and proving what clever boys they are.

But then again, I'm a cynical b@stard ...

[flyingtincan]

This is what seems to work for me -
Read the instructions.
Have passport ready for the reader.
Put luggage down on the floor.
Stand on the green feet marks on the floor.
Take off glasses.
Look like your passport photo - straight ahead, no smiling.
Wait.
Wait more.

Then just when you think it ain't working the gate opens.

[Dont Hang Up]

The shame is that the e-passport is just a manpower saving device rather than any real technology improvement on identity validation. It is using face recognition. The only difference between the booth and the Border Security official is that it is comparing your face to parameters on the embedded passport chip rather than to your photo.

The much older Iris system used a unique personal identifier that was far more individual (arguably as good as fingerprints). But that seems to have fallen into disuse.

[ExXB]

Ha ha!!!

Last Thursday I beat my wife through immigration at Bristol airport. She at the e-gate me in the 'other passport' queue!

It seems it has become more and more popular, and people are choosing the normal queue over the e-gate! because it's quicker.

[Heathrow Harry]

IRIS had a relatively poor recognition rate IIRC - plus you had to actually go and register

whereas the current system is open to anyone with a chipped passport

[farci]

Maybe someone can tell me if there was a recent (6 months ago?) upgrade to the e-gate system.

Like others I avoided them in the past but I can report my personal experience that e-gates at EDI, GLA and BHX now work consistently compared with two years ago.

I endorse taking off glasses since that was the way my UK passport was issued

[turbine100]

The companies that make the software which is installed onto the kiosks / E-gates. Typically have to integrate with an existing Government border control system and follow a set of interface requirements provided by the Government.

So you may be going through the E-Gate and it perhaps refers you to the immigration officer for a number of reasons. For example, your name is similar to someone else, or they are doing a watch list check and something has been flagged to the immigration officer. That watch list check, may or may not be an issue and its just a process that they follow.

If the Kiosk or E-gate has a camera and depending where you are. It will either just take a photo that might be printed out or it load the chip from the passport and match it against the photo taken. The face matching software has to be tuned for the environment and a scoring system is used, so if its below a set limit. The traveller maybe referred to the immigration officer, this may be due to the quality of the photo taken or perhaps the quality of the photo saved on the chip.

The passport chip can also hold other data, such as fingerprints too.

[Peter47]

The problem may be with the glasses. My success rate is about two thirds. I was told that the problem may be that my new spectacles are darker than those in my passport photo.

[Kiltrash]

Thank you all for your kind replies

Having no glasses, same hair style and same colour and shave every day and have learned to assume the position and facial expression not changing, I still am at a loss to explain, Why always me,

A update is that I have had a offer from the Passport Agency that if I send a fresh duly authorised photograph, with my existing passport they will, at no charge,check my old passport for flaws and / or issue me with a replacement one,

How long says I, normal processing time 4 weeks, hopefully they say

However I am scheduled out the country Nov, Jan, March, April, June (possibly), and July

Think I will stick with the manned gates!! or a visit to Peterborough may be called for

Thanks All

[jackieofalltrades]

Last Thursday I beat my wife through immigration at Bristol airport. She at the e-gate me in the 'other passport' queue!

It seems it has become more and more popular, and people are choosing the normal queue over the e-gate! because it's quicker.

Funny you should write that. I have a very similar experience at Bristol airport. I've given up trying to use the e-gates now, as inevitably I will be delayed and it's much quicker to go via the "traditional" route.

[Peter47]

Same true for me at LHR T3 earlier this year (I actually switched from the E-gate queue to the queue for manual cheques after seeing it move faster - should have joined it in the first place).

Still got to baggage reclaim before my bag though.

[Kiltrash]

Latest trip and joy of joys no one at the new e passport gates at Lisbon, sailed through first time, got back to Luton and huge queue at e'gates, joined traditional queue and got through in half the time as monitoring the progress of where I would have been and a cheery chat with the Border Guard at the manned desk to boot

[farci]

Nice to see those ever-so-efficient Dutch have problems too.

Used the new eGates at AMS but their machines pulls the passport into the reader; pinched digits!

That's not so bad but my hand baggage jammed the barrier at the rear of the gate having crossed some invsible line. Had to be rescued by a hit squad of grumpy Koninklijke Marechausee to whom this was obviously not a unique event! :=

[1DC]

Mrs 1DC and I both renewed our passports on the same day. I generally get through the egate without problem Mrs 1DC is always referred to a booth with a real person. When she asks why she is just told it can't be working.

[OverRun]

Kiltrash, it's not the photo.

[Basil]

a cheery chat with the Border Guard
As we walked away from Newark immigration officer Mrs Bas remarked what a pleasant chap he was.
I did mention that wasn't polite conversation; it was gentle interrogation :)

LHR security DID piss me off when we, through no fault of our own, arrived at the gate with minutes to spare and were given a manual search. Two seventy-something ethnic Western Europeans - aye, right, they'll be the ones to watch :rolleyes:

[Skeleton]

Just a thought you haven't got dual passports have you? You have to use the passport you checked out on, so the details match.

[STN Ramp Rat]

I use the e-gates almost every week across Europe, on the whole the e-gates system works well, I very rarely (maybe once this year) get referred to the manual gate, observations whilst waiting in the queue are that it is rare for people to get referred and most of those that do give the impression that they are “technophobes” . the best gates are in Germany where the passport is inserted before entering the machine and whilst the person before you is being checked by the machine, this speeds up the transaction time. The worst machines are the ones that grab your passport and pull it onto the machine; I fear passport damage and a visit to the embassy for a replacement every time.
it is rare in the extreme for me to compliment government but the e-gates work, now all they have to do is sort out the queue’s at Stansted border control and it will need another 100 e-gates to do that

[Skeleton]

STN good post and i agree. Ive never had a drama at Sydney but there always seems to be someone who does. I guess facial recognition software still is not perfect. I avoid the passport grabbing machines, id rather queue and know my passport is safe.

[fincastle84]

I travel through LHR T-5 with Mrs F 3 or 4 times a year & find that the e gates work perfectly every time.

[Tom!]

Passed through STN a few times last month. First time e-gates were closed so had to join the manual queue. Other times used the e-gates no problem (although also small queue there). :ok:
I just wonder why there were only 25% or so of the e-gates available. Anyone know why they just don't open all of them?

[kkbuk]

I have a poor success rate at the e-gates, perhaps it is because my beard-length varies with the weather, long in winter and short in summer!

[Heathrow Harry]

"Anyone know why they just don't open all of them?"

Border Force staff protecting their jobs

there were a lot of stories about the original gates at LHR suffering from "people" putting things like paperclips and chewing gum in the slots................

[Kiltrash]

Ha the Government have seen that the e'gates are not as efficient as they thought

Passed through Luton and the gates are all closed for 'refurbishment' and 'to improve your experiance'

Victory is ours

However there were only 6 of the 11 manned desks open and the queue was 25 minutes!

ah well one small battle won in the bigger war

[Capot]

Last Thursday I beat my wife through immigration at Bristol airport. She at the e-gate me in the 'other passport' queue!Exactly the opposite to what happened to me 'n Mrs C at BRS about 10 days ago, much to my surprise. And that was after I initially joined the long manned booth queue, and only twigged that there was an ePassport channel after a while, and doubled back to it. I then had to wait 5-7 minutes in the baggage area for her to emerge.

[ExXB]

Capot, it wasn't the (often long) queue for European passport holders, it's that sneaky queue around the back for us foreigners. On a flight from Geneva there is rarely more than two or three of us.

[Capot]

Yes, well, says it all, doesn't it; foreigners taking advantage and sneaking in behind our backs, snot fair, whats the world coming to, my father was in the War, you know, I'm a pensioner, mutter, mutter, good old Nigel, if I were younger I'd sor..............ad infinitum et nauseam.....

[farci]

Capot, it wasn't the (often long) queue for European passport holders, it's that sneaky queue around the back for us foreigners. On a flight from Geneva there is rarely more than two or three of us.

My wife American - me British. If the 'colonials' queue is shorter go there for both. It's legitimate if you are a family

[paull]

I am currently at 0 from 12 attempts. Lat time I tried to divert directly to the (e-passport) manned desk, but the person assisting at the e-gates insisted I tried one more time. I offered her odds of 10-1 but she was obviously not a gambler.

The folk on the desk assure me there is nothing wrong with the chip - they can read it, so I guess I just don't look like my photo as far as the recognition software is concerned. Someone even said, "Your's is a common name, perhaps it takes too long to search" , which shows a phenomenal lack of understanding as to how this stuff works.

[Hipennine]

Munich - spot-on, very quick. However, was told by the guy standing nearby providing assistance, that UK passports cause quite a lot of problems.

[johnsmith3862]

I travel regularly into LHR from HKG and, with arrival times from 5-30 ish onwards (various carriers BA CX VA), we are always among the first flights in.

On several occasions there has been 'intelligent life' at the manned immigration desks but the e gates are not yet open. They seem to come to life at 6-30am. I had assumed that was because they require some trained supervisor sitting at a remote terminal to oversee their operation, and that they get to have a lie-in.

Last time through (5-30 arrival, so queued for the manned desks) I struck up conversation with the officer and asked why the e gates don't wake up earlier. His reply suggested that the airlines (with the early arrivals) have to pay [more] for the privilege and hence the e gates are shut until 6-30...

Anyone else heard similar or different?

[S.o.S.]

Welcome to the forum johnsmith3862.

Thank you for a most interesting first post, if that is what has happened, it would be disappointing but not surprising.

[barry lloyd]

Interesting story. I came into LHR from Barcelona on a Monday night recently and none of the e-gates were open. Everyone was funnelled into the manned desks. There wasn't a large queue as such - it was after 2200 - but there seems little point in investing public money into a system which works so intermittently.

[Heathrow Harry]

its the workers - defending their jobs by switching the gates off

If everyone used the gates they'd be standing aboiut doing nothing and Mrs May would have them out on the street in seconds.......

[Kiltrash]

e'mail arrived today from the Border Agency, after my issue of 27th April, well thats not bad for HM Government, and t'was confirmed that 25 min wait is acceptable to them for EU passport holder and 45 min wait for non EU holders and they feel they are doing well!

However no comment as to why the machines are needed to be replaced after 18 months

Imagine if that was the wait in your local Asda

Words capitive customers spring to mind

[ExXB]

... and 45 min wait for non EU holders and they feel they are doing well!

That's an average, so 1/2 are waiting longer than 45 minutes.

That is one reason why I avoid LHR and LGW! LCY and BRS are better (due to fewer non-EU/CH - and they have to have 1 lane for us)

Why the hell can't they use APIS data to pre-clear (or not) arriving passengers? I travel to the UK 10-15 times a year, never overstayed, never worked illegally, never used the NHS, never broke the law and they (should) know this. Agents always ask the same questions usually repeating what's on the landing card. A waste of everyone's time.

[pax britanica]

Passed through LHRT3 yesterday and one thing did strike me as I weighed up the auto or manual queues (an chose the manual option). When did the once homely immigration officers morph from white shirted civil servants into the LAPD SWAT team style of work attire with handcuffs prominently in place on their shirts . Some still have a sense of humour tho'.

[Gibon2]

That's an average, so 1/2 are waiting longer than 45 minutes.

[PEDANT MODE] No, that's not what "average" implies. The average tells you nothing about how many are above and below it. It could be that almost everybody waits 44 minutes, and one poor sucker (probably me) waits 3 weeks.

Remember, nearly everyone has more than the average number of legs. [/PEDANT MODE]

[Heathrow Harry]

Hmmm - and the longest I've ever waited at Singapore is 10 minutes.... these long waits are really damaging to the reputation of the UK

[Capot]

Remember, nearly everyone has more than the average number of legs.Depends on the definition of the term "average", which is often used loosely, especially by politicians telling porkies.

If you mean mean, OK. But if you mean median, it's not quite the same as I'm sure you know. (PEDANT MODE OFF).

PS; I've now got a problem trying to work out the median number of legs of a group of 100, 99 of whom have 2 legs, and one is deficient by 1 leg. Mean is 1.98 legs per person, and I guess the median is 2, but the lunchtime glass is intervening.

[finncapt]

pax b.

I mentioned that to my wife (the black outfits).

The same seems to have happened to the UK police.

I'm not suggesting that they wear pink (what was wrong with blue?), but I do think it makes the police look aggressive.

Not conducive to defusing difficult situations in my opinion.

[barry lloyd]

pax b.

I mentioned that to my wife (the black outfits).

The same seems to have happened to the UK police.

I'm not suggesting that they wear pink (what was wrong with blue?), but I do think it makes the police look aggressive.

Not conducive to defusing difficult situations in my opinion.

Guess where that came from? The same place as the changes in the NHS and schooling in the UK. Quite why we have to have so much US influence in the way we do things is beyond me.

[pax britanica]

The US are good at some things-logistics like FedEx for example but their education is shocking and health care for the uninsured little better than witch doctor standards .

Why anyone in UK-a tiny country full of people would borrow ideas from US , almost an entire continent and mostly uninhabited is equally beyond me.

Oh and the US police are an example to all , as we well , know. All of these things started under the last Government and continued apace with this one so maybe Tony Blair got some kickbacks for starting it and David C is too scared of his rabid right to introduce ideas from the satanic EU.

[geeohgeegeeoh]

Fronted T4 with UK docs, partner has AU only. No signage, so I do the decent thing and queue in the strangers bar. 45 minutes pass we get to front:

"oh, next time you can both use the EU passport lane"

But there is no signage. How can you know? You would feel like a complete queue jumping twonk to ask, but why can't they say "...and accompanying partner/spouses" on the signage?

As for "pay GBP70 if you do this more than 4 times in the last 3 months with two partridges and a quarantine approved pear tree and we *might* let you in expedited" .. please. No. don't charge to speed up. Speed everything up and we all win.

The oddy? You can (I believe) now use US and UK biometric passports in the AU/NZ readers. No reciprocity. As my partner said, if the did, they'd have to let the rest of the commonwealth in and that would be .. common.

[ExXB]

Well that is the opposite of what I've been told. My British spouse can come with me in the 'other passports' or 'all passport' lanes but I may not accompany her in the EU/EFTA/CH lane.

Doncha just love the consistency!

[geeohgeegeeoh]

Probably safer to be slow. At least you're only accused of being less optimal instead of being a queue jumper.

And if it is up to the discretion of individual staff to decide, its a system designed to fail.

[Hartington]

T2 LHR Thursday 3 September 2015 about 1130. Enormous queue for Non-EU, practically no queue for EU. e-Gates no queue at all; they seem to be different to the ones I've experienced before in T5. They work but seem slower than T5.

[LTNman]

The last I heard only 3 out of 10 e passport readers were actually working at Luton. This is 6 months after they closed for upgrading.

[Heathrow Harry]

some poeple seem to jam them full of matchsticks - I wonder who................

[Ancient Observer]

The whole thing about queues at airports is a question of lies, damn lies, and statistics.

The airport owners want to quote short queues for everything. So they measure the queue for, say, security, or passport control, once every hour. They do this every hour. Including those times when no-one is going through the airport.
So one awful queue at 7.30 am is averaged out by zero queues at 01.30 and etc.

[Kiltrash]

Not bashing this time BUT landed 21.30 Gate 21.40 Gatwick 18 manned desks all open and no queues

8 out of 10 e gates green and working and no queues either

made the 22.08 train (no luggage belts needed) having stopped at duty free to get perfume for SWMBO

Well Done Gatwick / Border Force

Hmm Luton on 13 Oct lets see how that compares....

[Mike Oxbig]

I travel regularly from Munich to London(weekly) and find that my 2 year old UK 'e'passport never works in the German machines - neither incoming nor outgoing- but has always worked in the UK machines. I presume there must be something the German machines don't like about my passport(maybe my nationality!!:oh:).

[ExXB]

Kiltrash,

Did you notice how many 'Other' passport lines were open? Likely only one, and that's the one they also use for PRMs (both EU/EEA/CH and 'Other')?

One reason I avoid LGW (like the plague). LCY much better for us foreigners.

[Capot]

Thursday evening, 1000-ish, the T5 epassport channels were functioning well, and the time taken to process 75 - 100 people in front of me can't have been more than 5 - 10 minutes. There were 8 or 9 channels open, I think. (Pity, though, about the officious youth shouting at people to tell them to do what they were doing anyway, ie spread themselves out evenly among the channels waiting for their turn, but he didn't bother anyone much.)

So that was OK.

Unfortunately, we were delayed before disembarking by about 30 minutes (I think; that's what it seemed like) for a stand to be vacated. How the hell is that allowed to happen, with all the communication and other facilities available to managers? Why does no-one, evidently, predict that the situation might occur and have an alternative prepared? It's unacceptable just to say "Sorry, folks, we screwed up, thank you for your patience while we all sit here, engines running, for as long as it takes."

[Dairyground]

Quote:
Remember, nearly everyone has more than the average number of legs.
Depends on the definition of the term "average", which is often used loosely, especially by politicians telling porkies.

If you mean mean, OK. But if you mean median, it's not quite the same as I'm sure you know. (PEDANT MODE OFF).

PS; I've now got a problem trying to work out the median number of legs of a group of 100, 99 of whom have 2 legs, and one is deficient by 1 leg. Mean is 1.98 legs per person, and I guess the median is 2, but the lunchtime glass is intervening.

More pedantry:

There are three common measures of centrality, Mean, Median, and Mode. Median is not really applicable to a distribution where the possible values are drawn from a compact set of small integers, being more meaningful where there is a wide range of possible values. The measure that gives the answer that most people first think of for the legs problem is the mode, the value for the greatest number of the population.

[Kiltrash]

EXXB

If its of any use we were on a flight from Tbilisi via Kiev and so I expect there were non EU nationals on board

There was basically no queue's anywhere even if there were non EU Passport holders

To be honest after travelling for 9 hours all I wanted was to see the train out of the airport!!