Wizzair Interviews [Archive]

captplaystation

6th Nov 2014, 22:03

They are apparently really picky

Well, they should be, they are paying you something approaching €2000 /mth AND you get to fly a lovely Pink Airbus :D isn't that just so. . . . super , no, super dooper I think :ok:

This industry just makes me want to :yuk: & then :yuk: & then :ugh:

If you have a brain , FFS why don't you go & get a "proper" job paying "proper" money & fly a Cessna at the weekends ? too late for me aged 56 , I am stuck with this cr@p, if you are 20 ish & educated , you are not. . . are you blind ? ?

BusAirDriver

7th Nov 2014, 00:25

2000 Euros a month!!! Ha ha ha :D If you are non rated, and with training bond for XX amount of years, expect to have around 1200 Euros a month!

:} And guess what, you get treated like you get paid! No further comment :E

Saturno

7th Nov 2014, 16:43

For people looking for the first job Wizz and other low cost are still a good choice, brand new planes, europe, nice destination, quite good roaster, nice envirment, and at least you are sure to get the salary, and when you get the experience you leave for better T&C..
And these low cost are the only one hiring people.. Fortunately

Or we wanna talk about all the airlines that are more close to bankrupt than to fly???

JaxofMarlow

7th Nov 2014, 17:29

2000 Euro a month. :mad: me. I am speechless. Utterly speechless.

BusAirDriver

7th Nov 2014, 23:50

Saturno "Or we wanna talk about all the airlines that are more close to bankrupt than to fly???"

Yes maybe it is better that the authorities made a proper audit of the conditions of this airline, and they stopped flying! Or are you working just to make the airline rich!

Last I heard they reported 1 million profit a day! Why not give people a good bonus! 4 free tickets :D

Saturno

8th Nov 2014, 06:11

Last I heard they reported 1 million profit a day! Why not give people a good bonus! 4 free tickets

You are completely right, it's a shame, and I don't agree with this policy and model, just saying the these company are the only option available for the young kids to start a job.

Narrow Runway

8th Nov 2014, 06:20

And therein lies the problem.

Why should Wizz Air be considered a first job? Because they know that kids will accept anything in order to fly.

Believe me, I've flown with some of these kids. Some were good, some were very, very bad indeed.

Initial selection is almost based on ability to pay, not ability in it's purest form.

F2 Driver

8th Nov 2014, 06:50

Latest News from a recent management and crew meeting. No more British or Dutch will be employed, partly due to the number of resignations. :ugh:

Saturno

8th Nov 2014, 07:27

This is a 2 way games, they hire pilots giving them low salary, and pilots come get the hours and experience they need and leave, everybody is happy.

The selection is not based on ability to pay believe me, a lot of things changed, and resignations are from all nationalities, both fo and cpt, only local pilots, based in their own country are not leaving, not yet :)

Saturno

8th Nov 2014, 07:32

NR today in europe, a kid with 250 hrs where could apply? Tell me

Narrow Runway

8th Nov 2014, 08:24

saturno

It is based on ability to pay. If you can somehow live on €800 a month, then that is ability to pay, when compared against someone who can't.

It is a direct economic relationship.

Most of the €800 a month FO's will be somewhat subsidised. This will likely be by parents, grandparents, partners or whatever. But make no mistake, that is selection by ability to pay.

250 hour pilots always struggled to get their first job. However, in the past they didn't directly destroy the entire industry T & C's.

sascha410

8th Nov 2014, 17:31

Narrow Runway,
I do not know where do you have 800Eur figgure from. The one I know is bigger than that, so no lower than 1200EUR for the first year.
And one CAN live on that in eastern EU. It is not much, but one years goes fast and do not forget that on top of that your Type Rating is being deducted. So your sallary is around 2000eur.
Considering todays situation in aviation this is, from my point of view good chance.

Kind regards

JaxofMarlow

8th Nov 2014, 18:03

Great. Freedom of labour between member EU states is really not helping. 1200 Euro a month to fly an airliner. In UK this is less than the minimum wage and what you would expect if you filled Tesco shelves for a living. Would not get close to covering my mortgage.

imaximov

8th Nov 2014, 18:43

And yet it is the salary everyone in my country (with a wizz base) dreams of. No surprise when the average salary is around 500 eur. Even more 2000 is around what you can expect as an FO in another local airlines.

It is not Wizz. Is it the lack of equality in EU.

JaxofMarlow

8th Nov 2014, 19:10

It is neither. It is the bonkers political dream of providing a level playing field across a huge geographical area with a huge divergence in employment opportunity/unemployment levels/cost of living/wages. You surely can see why those in the UK (for instance) are pissed off at seeing their salary and terms and conditions eroded as our employers see a wave of potential resource at their disposal that are happy with salaries that won't cover the cost of keeping a roof over our heads. I talk not only of those from Eastern EU but the spotty kids whose mummy has plonked £100k on the table to get young James a glam job.

Narrow Runway

8th Nov 2014, 19:37

Sascha,

Please don't think I don't know the situation.

I've been both a Captain and a Base Captain at Wizz Air.

Believe me, €1200 is NOT enough. How do you expect to repay your training debts to the bank?

Oh, hang on. Silly me. Mummy and Daddy do that for most kids in this salary.

Believe me, I've flown with FO's in Wizz (admittedly 5 years ago now), who could not keep their finances in order, after debt repayment. And they were earning €2500 a month then.

Can you see just how exploitative this all is?

I can.

yurski

8th Nov 2014, 19:40

I'm the Bus driver in London driver and I get paid more

TheBigD

8th Nov 2014, 19:46

Can I get the email for recruitment?:E

All kidding aside, do you guys in JAA/EASA land see the t and c's improving at all in the foreseeable future or have you yet hit rock bottom in terms of T&Cs?

Saturno

8th Nov 2014, 20:23

NR, as I told you before, I agree with you, and since you were in wizz you know the situation, but all the parties are aware of this, and both use eachother.. And yes 1200 eur are not enought even to survive not mentioning to live!!
Bye

RedBullGaveMeWings

8th Nov 2014, 20:27

BusAirDriver

9th Nov 2014, 08:58

Cost of living much cheaper?

Besides slightly cheaper rent for living in so racist country, there is not much else that is much cheaper!

It's EU second tier!

Skipping Classes

9th Nov 2014, 14:58

...the situation, but all the parties are aware of this, and both use eachother..

And that's the reasons its "get your experience and move on" airline, even for the most experienced local TRI/TRE's and top management pilots (as we know from the experience) - quite sadly.

And this won't change until its sold or IPO.

drfaust

9th Nov 2014, 19:15

I don't understand what's so complicated. An employment contract is a voluntary agreement between the two parties. If you don't like what your contract says, or find it unacceptable, don't sign it by all means. I also don't know where all you people are based and on what contracts, because as a normal bondless FO here I rake in just about 3.3K euro per month after tax, social contributions and pension deductions on a local Polish contract.

Really guys, by all means, don't come. You might force them to improve the package. However, you and I both know that when push comes to shove and they offer you a job, you will take it. And after a year or two when the men in the LHS have taught you how to fly, you will bail either by respecting your contract or not. This is not a great place to work when it comes to money, roster and holidays. It really isn't, especially not for experienced people. But what is really worrying is the experienced people leaving, a lot of them. Locals and expats, CPT's and SFO's. But they're not spending their time moaning on PPRUNE about something they willingly signed up for when it was advantageous for them. They take action and evacuate because the company is failing to improve their standards of living over a long period of time. That, I understand. What I just don't understand is the hypocrisy on here. They offer you a contract, you accept it and sign it and then you end up whinging about it. Are you retarded?

So for the last time: just don't sign! It might force the company to improve the package for everybody. In the meantime for all the guys that will join (and they will join), a piece of advice: try to listen to your captains and trainers, you might learn something when you are not speaking. And for all the people considering these countries to be racist or second tier EU, feel free to crawl back where you came from because nobody will miss you. Over and out.

BusAirDriver

9th Nov 2014, 22:57

Racist, I have seen this personally. (Not within the company, but locally)

Second tier, because they want to be part of EU, but give working conditions that is ancient 19.th century style!

Management style that does not belong in the 21.st century!

Long term future is in my opinion they have to change, as even people from these countries will want and expect more!

Keep the people down with spy-games and inside reporting! Good for morale!

BusAirDriver

9th Nov 2014, 23:20

Just to get this pay figures correctly.

Base pay is 20.000 Euro a year before tax = 1666 a month.

Deduct 1000 Euro of this for 15 months, and you have base pay of 666 Euros a month.

Add sector pay, approx. 30 Euros a sector, which can be from 16 - 30 sectors as median averages.

If you are sick, or holiday, your base pay is 666 Euros a month, if you on a local contract. If you on tax evasion Swiss contract, you will be deduct sick days from your base salary. But happy days for your holidays, you will have 6 66 Euros a month for that. Good luck to survive on this!

imaximov

10th Nov 2014, 18:16

A high-school teacher in Bulgaria gets about 350 E a month.... And survives!
Good luck to you!

TheColonel

11th Nov 2014, 02:23

Becoming an airline pilot is not about surviving... just saying :ugh:

TBSC

11th Nov 2014, 03:27

@BusAirDriver

A doctor gets 600 EUR net in Hungary. And not survives but lives. Bear in mind that being a doctor is a real profession with 6 years of university study +3-5 years of practice until you get promoted to any kind of specialist and not a crash course about push-buttons and basic physics. Before you start with the "saving lifes in case of emergency" lecture, a doctor has all the same chances to kill people each day.

If your home country offers you great jobs with high wage as a pilot, please take it. Problem solved. If Wizz gives you a chance to be a pilot (as you don't get a job at home) and collect hours, please take it but do not moan. Maybe it's not too late to study either and be a doctor for a big stack of dosh. Your choice.

Saturno

11th Nov 2014, 05:52

@ TBSC

you are right, the problem is that in Wizzair, there are a lot of expats, and with Wizzair salary it's not easy to manage a family in your home country with maybe a house to pay and all the rest, and at the same time live and commute int the country where you work, with no sick leave in case something happened and no retirement contributions, and in the meantime try to save some money for the future.

This is the big picture, but as I said earlier, when you join you know the deal, take to leave it. If wizzair would have a better salary the rate of leaving was completely different, because apart that, it is a great place to stay.

bye

drfaust

11th Nov 2014, 10:43

If I may add something here, I totally disagree with people like BusAir etc. Who are known for their stirring around the company. Joining as a cadet in this company with zero experience means you will financially suffer for the first 18 months or so. It is a choice you make for yourself and accepting it means you do not get the right to moan anymore or anyones sympathy. And if Eastern Europe is so racist or second-tier then my god, please, pack yourself up and show yourself the door. I know plenty of guys that would love to take your place. I would like to add that I am not Polish, but have never been treated in a fashion that could be called unhospitable let alone discriminated against.

I disagree however with WZZ management that they exclusively pay salaries that are somehow a reflection of the national average salary in the country you are based in. This is an international market, and the FR guys parked right next to us doing a very similar route out of the same base do seem to be getting somewhat of a fair wage for what they do. For me that's the reason why so many people leave, deliberately ignoring holiday and roster issues.

BusAirDriver

11th Nov 2014, 12:23

Ref the racism was not by people within the company, more from the locals!

I guess you will only notice this if your skin colour is a bit dark!
Besides the Hungarian CRM team who likes to make jokes of the funny Indian accents!

Jwscud

11th Nov 2014, 14:00

It's coming to something when FR are the good wage benchmark.

BusAirDriver

11th Nov 2014, 17:51

Yes the irony is that at RyR you make more than double as an FO, and as a Captain I would think treble!

I say one thing only, unfair competition, because Wizz and likes bend every rule they can, be careful what you wish for if the other companies need to do the same to keep up and survive with cheaters like Wizz!

This is the major point people fail to understand!

If we do accept the way Wizz operates, and others similar, it will only be a matter of time before EVERYONE will do the same, and it will be joyous business.

FRogge

11th Nov 2014, 18:43

If a FR captain makes about 9k/month. that can't be 3x more than a Wizz Cpt, no matter what the living costs are in Poland. Just out of interest, how much tax do you pay in Poland/Hungary?? In Ireland we pay almost 40% of the FO salary and I think captains pay even more (if not on a dodgy old contract) + social insurance

BusAirDriver

11th Nov 2014, 19:02

FR Captain on 9K a month, Wizz Captain on around £3500 a month!

Wizz pilots are not really paying any taxes, Wizz has created a Swiss tax haven!

Btw. who knows, employed or not, everybody gets a Swiss tax certificate!

Be careful for what you wish for! Some companies are cowboys who bend the rules more than others!

A320baby

11th Nov 2014, 19:13

LOL. Where the hell are you getting 3500 from? (this has been my average take home from the past 13 months) You are seriously deluded!

BusAirDriver

11th Nov 2014, 19:57

Captain salary with Wizz approx £3500 UK pounds, that was what Frogge used as CURRENCY!

Which 4500 Euros a month! Base pay CPT is 40.000 Euros / 12 = 3333 Euros a month + sector pay.

So who is deluded now?
And for first 6 months after upgrade base pay is reduced, believe it is to 35.000 Euros. So Captain pay can probably be less then 4500 Euros a month too in the start, so all happy days.

A320baby

11th Nov 2014, 20:02

I guess you are still very deluded! :ugh:

FRogge

11th Nov 2014, 20:45

Actually I meant euros because thats the currency FR pays and I would imagine Wizz aswell. And that 9k(euro) is with the sector pay and allowance included! So if u take that and taxes into account I don't think the difference would be as big as you are insisting.

BusAirDriver

11th Nov 2014, 21:13

Ok double instead of treble!

I still think Captain pay of around 4500 Euros a month is appalling!

EU is supposed to be one market, or as we can see there are 2 tiers! Fact is in the numbers!

Not talking about the people, talking about the economics! So why does not all the big companies just outsource to these low paying countries, and then we will have all happy days all over the continent?

negativeclimb

12th Nov 2014, 11:07

Guys,
I would like to know how many years are needed to get the CPT upgrade from an experienced FO starting from 0 hours on the A320. I have passed the screening but I am flying the Jumbo in Asia with a good contract but I would jump on the left seat, because here takes a long time.

Thanks :ok:

drfaust

14th Nov 2014, 08:50

An average WZZ CPT in my base in PL takes home around 5.5K-6K in euro per month after tax, social and pension and including sectors. So it's a third less than Ryanair, and that's obviously ****e. Couldn't agree more.

But don't come moaning to me about eastern Europe. If you don't like it, just go back. Nobody is forcing you to be here. The fact is that the same regulations that allow us to work here are the same regulations forcing the wages down.

Simple as.

FRogge

14th Nov 2014, 09:20

If a wizz cpt takes home 6k/month(euro) that is equal or even more that a RYR cpt gets paid! I say it again, 9000euro minus 40% tax leaves you with 5400 euro/month! I think that wizz and ryr are pretty much in the same boat! As an FO I don't see much future in either one.

BusAirDriver

14th Nov 2014, 11:12

Reg. RyR, if you have a limited company, you pay 21% tax on dividends.

Also deductions before tax etc. 145Euros x 750 hours a year = 9000 Euros a month before tax.

Wizz Captain, base pay 3333 Euros a month, and 1800 Euros sector pay, so total 5100 Euros a month before tax.

On this approx. 21% tax.

Also depends how good accountant you have, tax can be reduced, if your pre tax pay is high.

FRogge

14th Nov 2014, 12:55

Nowadays only RYR contracts available for new commanders, so no self employment, thus normal employee tax rates.

At 20% (the standard rate):

the first €32,800, for individuals without dependent children
the first €36,800, for single or widowed persons qualifying for the One-Parent Family tax credit
the first €41,800, for married couples.

The balance of income is taxed at 41%

After this you still need to deduct social charges (USC) and social insurance (PRSI).

A :mad: LOAD OF TAXES!

FRogge

14th Nov 2014, 12:58

I have to say though that there is several different contracts within RYR, but I'm now talking about what is offered to current command upgraders and what I would most likely be offered in a few years

BusAirDriver

14th Nov 2014, 16:14

If proper contracts like this, you will at least have holidays, sick days and pension? (Frogge)

This at Wizz would be negligent if any at all!

drfaust

14th Nov 2014, 23:05

Dude honestly, what are you talking about? Are we working for the same company? I'm on a Polish contract. I have Holidays, sick pay and I pay contributions for a pension in Poland. This admittedly is :mad: but it is there and considering that I am a resident of the Netherlands these working years get counted in NL towards my dutch state pension, as per EU regulation. My taxes are also paid, in Switzerland. Fully compliant with double taxation treaties. It is not my fault nor that of WZZ that the EU allows this kind of practice within its member states. Each year that I have worked here I have filed a full tax declaration with the authorities in the Netherlands and never had an issue.

I'm not saying that what I have is good, far from it and I am far from satisfied, but get a grip already. I was out there today and asked my direct colleague, an English bloke by the way, what he actually takes home every month. He says there are better and worse months, but on average around 25000ZL. This comes down to 5.5-6.0K per month in Euro, after all is paid and deducted and factored for the variation in FOREX on the zloty. I understand you are based in VNO and that local contract is significantly worse, but there are quite a few contracts in this place with very different take-home's at the end of the month. Again, not saying it's great because it really isn't, but please get your facts right.

FRying

15th Nov 2014, 10:18

And what do you do to improve your situation ? Have you joined a union ? Do you invest time in defending your T&Cs, one way or another, instead of waiting for the sun to come out, if that's God's will ???

drfaust

15th Nov 2014, 10:37

You know as well as I know that due to the structure of this company, and others, and the way that they are allowed to be incorporated within this European Union of ours it makes it extremely difficult for single staff to make any difference. Management knows that and has purposefully set the company up in this way. Just like yours has if you are in FR. In my previous airline I was indeed member of the union. It is much simpler when you are based in one base, in one country with one group of pilots. That being said, I came here voluntarily (whilst having other options) and don't regret my decision as I always knew what it would mean. I had personal reasons for doing so.

In the mean time, I try not to do anyone any favors without getting compensated really well for it and it works quite nicely for me. On the short term I should be leaving for an airline in Asia, because sadly it does appear that the only way to vote is with your feet in the current aviation climate. What I certainly am not doing though, is accepting a job whilst fully knowing all it's consequences and then coming on here berating the country where I am based. Or neglecting my own responsibility when it comes to the contract conditions that I, and all of us here, accepted. So what am I doing? It appears that certainly a lot more than most on here.

We can certainly discuss terms and conditions, the things that could and should improve or are otherwise neglected by my employer. But let's be grown up about it and read into the material at hand first before starting some sort of discussion. It would certainly reflect better on some of the more junior colleagues here and would increase the probability of me, but more importantly the company, taking their complaints and grievances to heart.

FRying

15th Nov 2014, 10:51

I am not at FR anymore and that for a looong time !! I quit that slaughterhouse, sick and tired of their behaviour. I'm not one to put up with that cr@p.

The fact the structure was adapted is one thing. But nothing prevents from working around the rules. Just get the right lawyers working on it and they'll find. That cannot be achieved out a personal endeavour. There are ways and solutions.

BusAirDriver

15th Nov 2014, 20:02

I am not VNO based, my base is not important either Dr!

40000/12 + 30 sectors x 60 Euros is a good average to work on. If you can get that to come to 5500 - 6000 Euros a month after tax, well that is interesting maths!

You have of course the 5% increase after every 1000 hours for more senior Captains!

A320baby

16th Nov 2014, 05:14

Busdriver you are a complete idiot hahahaha :mad::ugh:lier lier pants on fire

BusAirDriver

16th Nov 2014, 08:05

Whatever!

The figures I presented are correct, that is the base of the Captain salary!

I love the Wizz HR witch hunt of the guessing game, who who who!

Yes that is another special perk this company provides, they don't like people with opinions that cross their East European leadership / management style, which belong to another century!
Rule with an iron fist and report each individual to big brother, a company that loves to self promote how successful they are, with one after the other unknown Hungarian business awards!
When the fact their success is built on a very fragile foundation, which was proven when they was not able to float on the stock market earlier this year!

drfaust

16th Nov 2014, 09:50

Eastern european management style eh? CEO HU, EVP UK, COO NL, DFO UK, FLT OPS MGRS: DE, PL, HU. Yeah mate, I really feel behind the iron curtain here. I'll be the last to say that there isn't plenty to improve in this company, there really is. But you are just stirring, misinforming, spewing and even insulting the same peoples and cultures that offered you a job to begin with, calling them racist no less. I am just a lowly FO like you sir and like you I am not from here, but you strike me as a particularly pedantic drama queen. Get over yourself and present facts when you are in a debate, because trust me nobody that I know from the aforementioned MGMT people has the inclination, time nor energy to care about who you are. Even if you would like to feel important. A lot of fun you must be in the flightdeck :}.

Furthermore there is nothing wrong with my mathematics.
(40.000 x 1,05^(2))/12 + at least 40 sectors x 60 = 6075 = 25685 PLN at todays rate.
(40.000 x 1,05^(2))/12 + at most 60 sectors x 60 = 7275 = 30759 PLN at todays rate.

This is for a captain that has flown 2000 hours in the LHS, before tax and pension/social security. Considering that we realistically fly plenty more than 40 every month, I'd say my colleague was not just right, but right on the money. And this is with the numbers that you provided, I don't know the exact numbers that he has in his contract. It is a poor salary for the job, that thing is for certain in my mind. I will allow you to interpolate for seasonality yourself as I honestly can't be bothered, suffice to say that our season lasts around 8 months.

As a last thing to note, it is no big secret who I am. Anyone with any time in this firm that lurks this forum can easily guess it. Despite the fact that I have been critical about this company in the past and in the present, I have never heard anything and nobody has been trying to intimidate me at any point. As I said, I think we work for different companies!

737Jock

16th Nov 2014, 10:23

I have no idea what you are calculating.

40.000 eur basic per year
60 x 12 x 60 EUR per sector = 43200 EUR per year

total 83200 per year = 6933 gross per month before tax.

If you take home about 6000 you should count yourself very lucky. But I hope the tax authority won't come knocking on your door.

In the Netherlands you would need 130.000 gross a year to make a similar salary. Which happens to be the Capt salary in easyJet Amsterdam.

drfaust

16th Nov 2014, 10:27

It is pretty obvious you have no idea what I am calculating. It was a particular example from a CPT that I know personally and professionally, with 2000 hours in the LHS. Every 1000 hours the basic salary increases by 5 percent, that's why the 40.000 x 1,05^(2) in his case. What they end up with is between 5.5K and 6K depending on the month, the amount flown, any extra sector payments, etc. It's basic arithmetic, I suppose if you would have taken the time to gather the information you would have come to the same conclusion.

The social and pension is paid in Poland, the tax in Switzerland. In my case as First Officer, I make full tax declarations every year in the Netherlands and have had zero issues with it for three years now and take home between 3K and 3.3K depending on all the variables. I don't like it either, but it seems that this is fully legal within the European union. Whether it should or should not be is a different story, but this is how it's structured. I am fully aware of what you need to earn in the Netherlands for the same net salary and it is precisely the reason why EZY AMS is totally not interesting as it would provide no improvement at all.

737Jock

16th Nov 2014, 10:33

Yeah but you won't actually fly 720 sectors a year.... so the sector pay in my previous calc is vastly exaggerated. Lets go for the industry standard in loco of about 450 sectors a year.

So he'll make 44100 basic
450x 60 = 27000 sector

71100 a year = 5925 a month before tax.

Cut the BS, either no tax is being paid or ur friend is overstating his take-home (which happens quite a bit with pilots I have noticed)

drfaust

16th Nov 2014, 10:53

Again, it was factored for what you are saying. The highest amount before tax and social was mentioned, as was the lowest amount. So the gross numbers are correct and I have no reason to doubt that he will take home 5.5K or something similar. And mind you there are captains with a lot more hours in the LHS and a higher basic. It was also mentioned that I was calculating with the numbers the previous poster provided, and clearly not with the numbers that my mate has in his contract. So let's stop going in circles here.

BusAirDriver

16th Nov 2014, 11:12

1. There is no average of 60 sectors a month!
2. I doubt average will be as high as 40 - 60 sectors a month, unless you in Gdansk
3. Average over 12 months would be 30 - 36 sectors, low and high months.

4. If you taking home 3.000 - 3.300 Euros a month FO pay, then you are not paying a Cent in taxes!
You might think you don't have any problems at present moment, but if you had some connections with various unions you would quickly find out why you are momentarily left in peace. But this will not last forever.
Mention Union in Wizz, and you will be fired out before you can even spell the word Union!

5. I did not say people in general was racist within Wizz itself. Besides the one story about the funny Indian FO on flight IX-812, who because of his funny accents was to blame for not being assertive enough, and flew the aircraft in the ground in Mangalore.

Or the SCA on OTP to TLV flight, complained that Hitler should have done a better job.

Or the CPT from Poland, who believed Sweden was a terrible place to move to, because they would take away your children and give them to gay couples.

Or the CPT who saw and FO approaching the A320, and exclaimed, but he is black!!!!

In my world that is racism, but then again I am not a great Putin fan either, so depends what flavours you prefer!

Or dark skinned pilots, being told to go back home to their own country, or being refused to rent apartment by land-lord when they saw these pilots! Or not being served drinks in the local bars! Or being refused entry to bars/clubs!

I admit the above does not represent the majority, but it does exist! And much more then it would happen in Amsterdam, Paris or London!

Sure this is normal! Good to know!

But hey, who cares, as long as we get our hours and can fly on! :}

I know plenty LHS guys, great guys, but on 12 month average they rarely take home more then 4500 - 5000 Euros, and that is with a dodgy taxation system, that company itself can not even explain to you when you start asking them questions.

TAXATION from Geneva: (From the horses mouth itself)

From a Swiss tax point of view the relation between Confair and WizzAir is typical for body leasing. WizzAir is considered the economic employer of Mr. X, The relation is treated as an employment because Mr. X (1) works exclusively for WizzAir, (2) is fully integrated in the organization of WizzAir, and (3) takes directions from WizzAir.

A Swiss economic employer is required to remit salary tax if the employee is resident outside of Switzerland. Normally, an employee who does not physically work in Switzerland is not taxed in Switzerland.

Saturno

16th Nov 2014, 11:18

There is only 1 base that fly 450 sectors or more and it is GDN. In other bases they fly between 350 and 400.

drfaust

16th Nov 2014, 11:41

Who was talking about confair. Sigh.

BusAirDriver

16th Nov 2014, 12:00

99% of new Captains are forced on to Confair contract! With very few exceptions. Part of the new package deal, pay less, fly more!

It's economically very efficient!

Saturno

16th Nov 2014, 12:49

Exactely, like 8% gone and 11 months contract.. :=

737Jock

16th Nov 2014, 22:09

Oh come on drfaust stop the crap.

Lets take a 10k hrs in LHS captain then, cause they are clearly the majority of captains in Wizz:ugh:

Basic 65155
Sector (450 a year) 27000

total 92155

7679 per month

Still a challenge to take home 6k on that salary in most normal tax regimes.

Basic arithmetics and basic social security and income taxes don't match your story faust.

captgeorgekajo

17th Nov 2014, 09:13

This is all very interesting but the fact remains that at a recruitment day recently there were 100's pilots queuing through the hotel. This doesn't include the vast number joining from Lot / Eurolot just for the Polish bases alone nor the online applications.

There are lots of (mainly expats) leaving for other operators that is causing some problems for next year's staffing levels, so if you don't like the terms that Wizz offer then don't join, but if you do then go in with your eyes open.

You'll fly to max all year round (myself 892 hours: 510 sectors), rostering and scheduling will take precedence over your commuting, especially when there's a shortage of crew, the salary is a lot less than other operators, and some pilots have been told to sign a new (agency) contract with worse terms or else...

But, if you don't have a job, or want a short time to upgrade, or want to be based in your home country then Wizz are still a very good option.

seventhreedriver

17th Nov 2014, 10:09

BusAirDriver!

If the money is bad, racism and antisemitism is all around, management is oppressive Soviet style, the pilots are not really pleasant, and if you mention UNION, you will be fired, I just have one question to ask:

Why are you still working here? Give me one reason, and I will be the happiest person on the face of the Earth.

seventhreedriver

17th Nov 2014, 10:16

About the salary:

Either you fly a lot of short sectors, or longer ones which pay more. The compensation is OK for captains, not so for the FOs. (20% extra for sectors above 2hrs, 40% for 2:30+ for PIC, 10 and 20 for the FOs) The average of my last 5 months were around 6200 EUR after taxes, with more than 2000hrs WZZ PIC time.

Nobody is forced on a Confair contract, but almost everybody chooses it as apart from the income tax, you pay all the rest wherever you want. (which is deducted in case of local contract)

I had a selection scheduled for Easy in AMS, but after a quick calculation of the salary, I declined, as it would have been more or less the same...

BusAirDriver

17th Nov 2014, 11:42

seventhreedriver;

Ok you claim you have 6200 Euros net after tax, with 2000 hours PIC Wizz.

So this means base pay 44.000 Euros a year, and lets use 72 Euros a sector with the 20%. And lets assume around 20 % in taxes. So taxes would be around 1400 Euros a month. So this means before tax you get around 7600 Euros. Base pay is 3666 Euros a month,

That gives you an average of 55 sectors a month at the medium range sectors.

Doing 55 sectors on average is pretty impressive, 20% in tax is a very low tax rate, and is realistic.
To do 55 sectors a month you would not be mostly on the short sector pay of 60 Euro per sector. That would be 65 short sectors a month to make 6200 Euros a month after tax.

Of course you could be one of the new DEC that they promised 8500 Euros a month. :D

TBSC

17th Nov 2014, 15:55

And your reason being?

drfaust

17th Nov 2014, 16:06

On a local contract, which means not confair, you are liable for tax in Switzerland and social premiums and pension in the local country (in the case of my examples: Poland). This means that as a CPT with 2K hours in the LHS you can take home 5.5-6K on average. If you reject the construction of income tax paid 'at source' (which is very low if you take into consideration how income tax is dealt with in CH), then it makes no sense to discuss any further as we would be debating different things. My social premiums and pension are a higher percentage of my gross salary than my income tax. That's how the bloody thing is set up and the tax man in the Netherlands sure has no problem with it considering the double taxation treaty that NL and CH enjoy. Should this tax dodging and social dumping be allowed for companies to do? No in my opinion, no way. But the fact is that the way it is at the moment, the only country that has protested such employment practices has been France with the case of FR cabin crew (IIRC) being based in France whilst on Irish employment contracts.

You have captains coming on here telling you what they are making on a local contract. What more do you want, really?

BusAirDriver

17th Nov 2014, 18:55

You are liable to taxes to the country you have residency!

I have that in writing from Swiss tax authorities, copied in a previous post.

Of course what you decide to do and believe in is up to each person. If it was so easy, was does not BA, Lufthansa and all the others do the same?

737Jock

18th Nov 2014, 15:01

Better read the NL-CH dta again then faust. Bet you don't have a single tax declaration definitive.

seventhreedriver

18th Nov 2014, 16:52

Each and every country has different taxation. One says you have to only pay taxes as aircrew in the country where the company is based (based meaning all business decision is made, which in case of WZZ is Switzerland). Others base the taxes on residency. A good accountant is a must.

As for my taxes, as I am married, I have to pay around 8% income tax.

The social security contribution in the EU is based on the residency. It also depends on the country, how it is calculated, and how much should be paid.

Skipping Classes

18th Nov 2014, 18:21

737Jock:

Better read the NL-CH dta again then faust. Bet you don't have a single tax declaration definitive.

I think his residence is Poland, which, like Hungary, exempts the income taxed in Switzerland from further taxation.

Netherlands / Switzerland different story = tax at source is 0% and all must be paid in Holland.

Local contract or Confair is not up to the employee - it is decided by the company in most cases depending on your base. In rare cases you have a choice.

BusAirDriver

18th Nov 2014, 19:08

Challenge, ask anybody within Wizz to provide you written evidence of these agreements and contracts, you will never get any!
They will not give you any written proof that can make them "liable"!

Isn't ironic, Poland is the "new tax haven", what is it Monaco of Poland? :D

Let's see when other companies starts outsourcing their work force like this how it will be, when these TC's becomes the norm!

Have in mind, Wizz don't even own the aircraft they clam they do, they are ALL leased!

Current status is all the experienced Captains are line trainers, the experienced FO's leave, new DEC (rated and non rated) flying together with Cadets!

It's not a matter of if, it is a matter of when!

BusAirDriver

18th Nov 2014, 19:16

seventhreedriver;

Where did I ever say that the pilots wasn't pleasant?

I do not have ONE single bad word to say about the pilots working in the company, everybody I have worked with and talked with have been great guys!

There are much bigger wheels in motion, which hopefully will stop such practices, as they do not even try to make it look correct.

And about choosing the contracts, new Captains unless they are home-based are told to take Confair and pay cuts.

Tontito

19th Nov 2014, 13:06

The social security contribution in the EU is based on the residency

According EU 465/2012 social security has to be paid in the country in which you are based. That country will provide you with the necessary paperwork so you can benefit from healthcare in your country of residence, according local rules. Healthcare outside your country of residence is according to the rules of the country in which you are based.
Pension will later be paid by the country in which you were based.

For income tax you have to comply with the DTA's between country of residence, country in which you are based and CH. Complicated stuff, which needs professional advice!

737Jock

19th Nov 2014, 19:33

Skipping classes, if he was resident in Poland he would not need to do a tax return in the Netherlands which he claims to do. And he claims that the Dutch tax authority is perfectly happy with his returns and not paying taxes. So since he does tax returns in Holland he is likely seen as resident in the Netherlands.
As such he will eventually get a nice tax bill from the Dutch tax authorities.

He is also completely unaware that years in EU do not count towards state pension in NL. In fact quite the opposite, you can volunteer to pay the extra social taxes for AOW so that you do build full rights to state pension in NL. If not the other EU country is expected to cover state pension for those years at their local rate according to that countries legislation.

I would take his "knowledge" with a grain of salt!

Skipping Classes

21st Nov 2014, 15:03

I'm sorry n77 we have a freedom of speech.. Why taking the position of the censor?

In fact I think it might be the right time to discuss openly our terms and conditions.

Why hush hush?

BusAirDriver

22nd Nov 2014, 04:02

Skipping Classes " discuss openly our terms and conditions."

Open discussion!!! :D Reality is that we are own worst enemy. In normal circumstances, if you can improve your situation, and get into a position of influence, it would seem reasonable that such discussion could and should take place.

Yes we sign a contract, however we do not sign our contract in blood! But many of these companies prefer to have one-way communication, this is not unique for Eastern Europe, as we can see with FR, however there is a culture of very authorian company culture in East / Central Europe, compared to Western Europe.

Try to raise your voice to want improved conditions, and you will be stabbed in the back by your colleagues , this can be done by opposing improvement of TC suggestions / ideas or / and refraining from taking a stand, not giving support when others stand up and put themselves in the spot-light!
Yet shortly after they will still go around moaning and complaining about how bad their TC's are!

These companies work with a big whip from the top, they believe they can control your life, your roster, your holidays, your base, your commuting possibilities, your upgrade chances! All these factors are controlled by power hungry management from the top, who are not afraid to "punish you" if you have been a "bad boy / girl" Without some kind of union that can protect your interests you are left to accept whatever they throw at you, legal or illegal!

As the piece below from another PPRUNE thread illustrates, the illusion of better jobs after some experience, is slowly fading. If companies like Wizz do not improve their TC's, other companies will follow them to become equally competitive, other companies will also lower their TC's

From another thread regarding FR / NAS - similar applies to Wizz.

"low pay, lousy roster, nasty management, etc., etc. (And it was & still is.) They were all going to build their time & then leave & here I would ask the question, "where are you going to go to?" All of the airlines have continually lowered their Ts & Cs & there are now no places left that offer anything like the conditions that we all took for granted back in the eighties & nineties. Now, if those same people: the Ryanair, Jet2, NAS pilots told the likes of O'Leary, Meeson, Kjos, et al, to shove it & walked out, within a day all of our professional lives would improve. "

Tomasz

2nd Dec 2014, 12:12

Hey hope somebody could help me out, I applied to wizzair about 7 months ago, went to the open day in Warsaw, lately I wanted to check my status on the webpage and it disappeared. Do you know what that might mean? Thanks

Narrow Runway

2nd Dec 2014, 16:53

It means start again.

Tomasz

3rd Dec 2014, 17:48

Thanks for the help. I tried applying again, but it still shows no status, does that mean I have to wait a year. I didn't get an e-mail telling me that I was unsuccessfull. Thanks

TheColonel

3rd Dec 2014, 22:47

Have you interviewed already??

Tomasz

4th Dec 2014, 06:31

No I haven't

kwstas

5th Dec 2014, 11:07

Hi, same issue with me. I completed my application a month ago. I logged in again to check and at the "View Status" section is blank.
All my uploaded docs are visible. I haven't been contacted by the company.
Any ideas??

moko

5th Dec 2014, 11:29

same situation happened to me as well. i submitted my application with all necessary attachments, then got e-mail with confirmation bus status is blank...
PS. anyone has any info about wizz open days in 2015?

Jean-Francois

9th Dec 2014, 16:56

Welcome to the blank status privilege club...
What does that mean? Easy... At the present time your profile is not needed!
I applied the first day when Wizz started again to recruit (31/07/2014) for rated/non rated pilots w and w/o experience!
They have been recruiting a lot of experienced pilots rated and non rated. Few people I know started with them for the last few weeks.

Open days... I am interested as well... I would appreciate to know what to do with our applications? Start again, expecting a call or just forget about it!