Oops !

[NickFisher]

I was sat on board G-DBCG last night a minute or two into the climbout from LGW (BA2762) when we suddenly slowed and levelled off.

Shortly thereafter the Capt came on to say there was a problem with the forward undercarriage failing to retract, so we would be returning to LGW.

The return passed off reasonably uneventfully (though being met by the fire trucks with lights flashing caused the odd ooh and aah down the back) and we eventually parked up at a gate.

A few minutes later, the Capt came back on to announce that the maintenance guys had looked at the u/c and found the cause of the problem: the ground crew had failed to remove a pin which had been in place when the aircraft had been towed earlier in the day :eek:

I imagine whoever forgot has probably had rather a torrid time over the last 24 hours, but doesn't the PF also bear some responsibility for not checking ?

We eventually got bussed over to G-DBCI and arrived at AMS 2 1/2 hours late, but I imagine it could have been rather more serious if the u/c had got stuck halfway in (especially as I was sitting right over it !!!)

[FBW390]

Though there is a maintenance fault the Captain if fully responsible even if the preflight check, the pilot'one, has been done by the FO.

[J.O.]

Our SOP was to check that the gear pins were all installed in their storage box in the flight deck. Seeing them there meant that you were good to go, or so we thought. Then came the embarrassing day when a similar thing happened and we learned that maintenance guys carried around a spare set which they claimed was easier than having to go "all the way up to the flight deck" to retrieve them. :ouch:

There have also been cases where the crew simply didn't see the pin because it was missing the red flag that's supposed to indicate it's there. The red flags are needed because some pins are not easy to see on their own, especially in the dark - even when using a flashlight / torch.

I'm not offering excuses, simply pointing out that's it's not always black and white.

[Offchocks]

I remember an occasion where this happened on a 767. After the Captain had done his walk around, a check engineer type hid the red lock tape so the engineer he was checking couldn't see it.
The end result was the nose gear did not retract and the aircraft returned for a landing. I gather the check engineer was somewhat embarrassed.

So there are times when the Captain is not responsible.

[frieghtdog2000]

Did the walkround in India some time ago - red flag neatly rolled up and tied. When I asked why the reply "Very windy Sir - flag might get torn".

[racedo]

So there are times when the Captain is not responsible.

Captain is always responsible but there are times when the Captain is also not at fault even when responsible because they relied on the comptence of others.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

And also the gear wouldn't get stuck half way, with a ground lock pin installed, I will always be down, that's their job at the end of the day

[bugged on the right]

I very nearly did this one night after the third sector. I was inside the aircraft which had just come out of the hangar. I was going through my checks when somebody came into the flight deck with a problem with a cargo door. After resolving that, on with the show. Been outside so walkaround done. First item on the before start checks gave me a very uneasy feeling. Walkaround not done. I coughed up, got the stairs back and removed all 3 gear pins. Beers on me but it showed me just how easy it is. Checklists are a very good idea.

[parabellum]

I remember a Flight Engineer that carried a spare pin in his nav bag, just in case he forgot one day! True, probably wasn't the only one, either.

[grounded27]

Accountability for gear pins on board is weak, every tech or ultimately pilot who performs the last preflight walk around should inspect all gear for pins, (not to assume the RBF flag is attached). Only one I had seen slip between the cracks was a pin missing a flag on the center gear of an MD11 ,it is extremely rare to use and difficult to see esp when the wrong pin is used (factory has a long handle on it). The aircraft was fresh out of a heavy MX visit where pinning the centre gear was normal. A walk around requires discipline, human factors happen. On the upside the worst case scenario is dumping $$$ in fuel, an ATB and a waste of time.

[TimGriff6]

Did the walkround in India some time ago - red flag neatly rolled up and tied. When I asked why the reply "Very windy Sir - flag might get torn".

Must be the same chap who put split pins in all of the extinguishers and clenched them round "very dangerous if pin falls out and extinguisher goes off inside, sir"

[Saintsman]

Not civil, but I seem to recall on RAF VC10 see-offs that a nose lock was used on push-back and SOP was to show it to the crew once the tow bar was removed.

Mind, not all see-offs required push-back, so no system is infallible.

[Airclues]

a nose lock was used on push-back and SOP was to show it to the crew once the tow bar was removed.

The pin that is shown to the flight crew is the steering lockout pin (also known as the Hydraulic Bypass Pin). If this had not been removed then the aircraft would not have made it to the runway (unless it was a straight line to the runway). The U/C lock pin is a different pin and is located higher up in the wheel well.

[DaveReidUK]

The U/C lock pin is a different pin and is located higher up in the wheel well.

It's also a lot beefier, for obvious reasons.

[Blink182]

Airbus A319-321 Downlock Pin when installed is virtually in line with the closed Fwd Nose Gear doors.

By all accounts this incident was not a "Maintenance Error", but investigations are being directed to the Ground Handling company.It has been said that there was no flag attached.:ugh:

[Flightmech]

But gear pin installation requires a log-book entry.........

[BOAC]

But gear pin installation requires a log-book entry......... - oh really??

I guess that will be one (or two) pilots who will no longer rely on flags!

[Blink182]

But gear pin installation requires a log-book entry.........

Within Engineering , Yes......

Third party Handling Company ..... Never seen them touch a Tech Log :ouch:

[Tu.114]

With regards to the pins, the check should not be for the presence of a sufficient amount of them in the flight deck. It should rather be a look at the gear pin holes during each walk around: if these are empty and clear of pins, one is good to go and will not be surprised by someone having produced a spare set.

[BOAC]

the check should not be for the presence of a sufficient amount of them in the flight deck. - what you say is the correct advice but you should check for pins aboard in case you need them down route, and if one or more are missing - someone needs to know.

[bugged on the right]

Another gotcha. Don't assume the pins are removed simply because they are stowed on the flight deck. Our maintenance people would often use pins from the hangar. The advice is to check the holes on your walkaround. Basic airmanship.

[BOAC]

Hmm! A bit like posts#19 and #20, then? Specsavers?

[Offchocks]

- but you should check for pins aboard in case you need them down route, and if one or more are missing - someone needs to know.

Not all airlines carry the pins on flights.

[Basil]

Bugged right, gotchas everywhere.

RAF colleague did walkround - found prob during startup - went for coffee in line hut whilst ground engineers fixed it.
Climbed in - took off and couldn't retract gear.
Landed back and found nose lock and one main gear lock still in position.
Ground crew had, perfectly sensibly, refitted locks before troubleshooting.
Neither he nor his FE had done another walkround.
Yer learns about flying from that.
Main gear locks on that aircraft, which SHOULD have been clamped in position but were often just laid on top of the struts, weighed, and I'm guessing here, about 30lbs.
Something will go 'ding!' against a plough one day. ;)

Poor chap was killed in a Vulcan air display. RIP Simon.

[aergid]

Quote:
a nose lock was used on push-back and SOP was to show it to the crew once the tow bar was removed. The pin that is shown to the flight crew is the steering lockout pin (also known as the Hydraulic Bypass Pin). If this had not been removed then the aircraft would not have made it to the runway (unless it was a straight line to the runway). The U/C lock pin is a different pin and is located higher up in the wheel well.

Not always:

ATR42/72 Aircraft, some airlines use a pin for Pushback but its not a steering lock out pin. Its a nose gear pin. The reasoning I believe is to prevent nose gear collapsing due to excessive pushback & towing.:ok:

Also the Ground handler has a responsibility, as they are usually responsible for the pre-departure walkround in which Gear Pin checks are part of.

[PAXboy]

On the increasingly short turns on s/h, are pins used? Based on type, of course. For a typical l/h turn of 90/120 mins - are pins used?

Is it just on overnights? When certain maintenance procedures are to be done?

[BOAC]

2762 is a 1550 departure, so the a/c either came from the hangar to operate the service, had been towed onto stand from remote parking or another stand or maybe was having some maintenance on stand requiring 'safe' gear. Very little else requires pins.

[virginpaul]

DC10 pushback was done with NLG downlock pin and steering bypass pin installed. Downlock pin was a "hockey stick" - 5 odd foot long pole with pin and trigger operated retaining lever, bypass pin was attached to the stick by wire lanyard. The whole thing was bright red painted and had a 4 foot flag attached with remove before flight on it. Onboard pins were not used for push. The whole was displayed to crew after push when all equipment was removed and clear of the aircraft.

And as a note of interest, B747 pins ate stowed withing lower 41 hatch (between avionic bay floor and fuse skin) and thus are not checked by FD crew.

Engineering make log entry for installation of pins for any reason. Handling agents do not and they are wholely responsible for towing aircraft from/to departure stands. They do not make any log book entries.

A pin with a flag missing is U/S and shoud be repaired/replaced - can be controlled by Non Ops DD raised if aircraft com,pliment. If its an off aircraft pin (tooling) with missing flag this also should be made U/S and rejected if flag missing - or fit one - it's not hard if flag available!

Oh yes - and they won't get stuck 1/2 way up, or up - downlock pins do what they say on the tin - the nose wheel is the one most oft left in, as its used on some aircraft during the tow - whereas all pins (nose and mains) are fitted for heavier or hanger check visits - to avoid inadvertant gear retraction on ground.