Class 1 Medical required?

[Timothy]

I am of an age where I need a 6 monthly Class 1 medical, or a 12 monthly Class 2.

All my instructing is of qualified pilots, though some of it outside the privileges of their ratings.

In order to instruct for money, do I need to keep the Class 1 valid all year?

[welkyboy]

No. You can instruct on a PPL now(with CPL exams passed) and class 2 medical is acceptable

[Timothy]

Oh yes! Thank you, l had forgotten that provision.

[Whopity]

You must hold the licence or rating for any instruction to e given therefore; to instruct for a CPL you would need a Class 1 to exercise CPL privileges. Anything that can be done on PPL privileges, can be done with a Class 2 medical including the IR.

[Timothy]

Thank you.

[172510]

The regulation says

(f) Applicants for and holders of a commercial pilot licence (CPL), a multi-crew pilot licence (MPL), or an airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) shall hold a Class 1 medical certificate.

I could not find anywhere in the regulation that you may fly with a CPL on a class 2 medical cerificate, even if you only exercise PPL privileges.

[S-Works]

You can't fly as a CPL on a Class 2 medical. However you can be remunerated as an Instructor on a Class 2 medical and in fact with only a PPL.

[Timothy]

172510,

I believe that that is an anomaly which has been brought to the CAA's attention and they acknowledge that the legislation needs amendment, as it clearly doesn't make sense. As I understand it, they agree tacitly not to enforce a daft oversight.

[BEagle]

There is no anomaly; the privilege to receive remuneration for instruction is included in the PPL privileges.

The level of instruction you may provide as a PPL holder will depend, amongst other things, on whether you meet the relevant experience prerequisites and for PPL flight instruction, have demonstrated CPL level theoretical knowledge.

[ShyTorque]

I take it your age is between 50 and 60 years old?

My Class 1 medical form states, (regarding expiry dates):

"Class 1 single pilot commercial operations carrying passengers" (date = 6 months hence).

"Class 1 other commercial operations" (date = 12 months hence).

"Class 2" (date = 12 months hence).

So, unless you are single pilot and your students are passengers, I reckon it's valid for 12 months.

[Timothy]

Yes, that's the anomaly with the regulation 172510 quoted.

I actually thought it was BEagle who raised this with the CAA in a meeting in AOPA's cellar about a year ago?

I was certainly there when it was raised by someone and the answer was "oh, yes, that needs dealing with."

[BEagle]

I might have misunderstood the anomaly of which you speak, Timothy. Will you be at the meeting on Saturday? If so, we can discuss this.

[Timothy]

Yes we can talk at LM.

But, in the meantime, the anomaly, as I understand it, is that there is no provision for a professional licence to revert to a private licence, though the Class 1 medical certificate says that it is good for the privileges of a PPL in the period beyond Class 1 validity but within Class 2 validity.

This may have been resolved on recently issued licences if they say that they are PPLs as well as ATPLs, I am not sure.

[chrisbl]

Shy Torque,


When you pass 60, the line


"Class 1 other commercial operations" (date = 6 months hence).


By the way instructing has always been in this category of activity not passenger carrying operations.


If you want to instruct for the CPL after 60 it is a six monthly Class 1 medical, otherwise you drop down to the PPL and the Class 2 privileges which are annual.


Timothy


The CPL licence carries with it all the privileges of a PPL as per FCL 305. see CAP 804 Part D sub part 1 page 1 right in the middle of the box.

[alpha69]

Can you two resolve this one then. I have a JAR ATPL but do not want to go through the process of a Class One Medical. I however do do a Class One Audiogram every two years for my IR. I currently get a Class 2 every year.

My ATPL expires on 10/3/2016 I was going to get a valid Class 2 before that date. Will EASA /CAA issue a EASA ATPL or a EASA PPL.

I have no desire to do a Class 1 medical. I have no wish to fly (even as an instructor) for hire and reward. I just want a PPL with my SPA IR.

What should I apply for / what licence will they issue?

A69

[ShyTorque]

By the way instructing has always been in this category of activity not passenger carrying operations.

Yes, I'm aware. I have an FI(H) rating.

Problem is, the authority(ies) never writes anything in plain language.

[dobbin1]

My CPL(A) includes a PPL(A). Says so in box ii.

[Level Attitude]

My ATPL expires on 10/3/2016 I was going to get a valid Class 2 before that date. Will EASA /CAA issue a EASA ATPL or a EASA PPL.

I have no desire to do a Class 1 medical. I have no wish to fly (even as an instructor) for hire and reward. I just want a PPL with my SPA IR.

What should I apply for / what licence will they issue?Why wait until March 2016?
Act now.

You have three options:
- Apply for an LAPL with (at least) a valid LAPL Medical
- Apply for an EASA PPL with (at least) a valid Class 2 Medical
or
- Although it would cost a little bit extra my recommendation would be to take one more Class 1 Medical and then apply for your EASA ATPL (or CPL) straight away.

The CAA will only issue a Licence if an appropriate valid Medical is held, but the Licence is then valid for life with what use you can make of it depending only on what level of Medical you possess (without further CAA involvement or cost).

Holding an EASA ATPL/CPL gives you much more flexibility for the future than holding a PPL:
1) Full ATPL/CPL privileges if a Class 1 Medical is held
2) PPL privileges if a Class 2 Medical is held
3) LAPL privileges if an LAPL Medical is held
[Neither 1) nor 3) are currently possible for a PPL holder]

[alpha69]

Thanks Level Attitude; but I repeat that I have no desire to do a Class 1. The boys in the Belgrano have said that to get that I have to do an Exercise ECG which costs a fortune. I have no need for the ATPL privileges (having retired 11 years ago.) As I said, I just want a PPL to fly recreationally, hence my question.

A69

[Level Attitude]

Hi A69,
You asked "What should I apply for?" and I just wanted to confirm you (and anyone else reading this Thread) were aware of all options before making a decision.

You say you do want to maintain your IR.
This is not possible on an LAPL, as it is a VFR only Licence.

You say you do not want a Class 1 Medical (I understand why).
So an ATPL or CPL is not possible.

Given the above your only option is to have a valid Class 2 Medical and to apply for a PPL.

There is no need to wait but, before you apply, make sure any Ratings you will wish to use (eg SEP, IR) are, or will be, valid at the time of Licence issue.

There is no problem Renewing them later if they are not valid, it is just that they will now be recorded on the back (rather than the front) of the Licence and it will therefore require additional CAA action (and cost) to reactivate them.

Also consider whether you want, and already qualify, for any new EASA Ratings (eg Aerobatic). If so apply for these to be added to the Licence at the same time. No additional cost if done this way.


Good Luck

[S-Works]

Why does he need to change anything? A Class 2 medical and his ATPL will grant him PPL privileges.

[OhNoCB]

I have a related question which has come about from another thread.

This concerns someone who would hold a CPL, an FI rating and a class 1 medical with an OML.

They have found that they can instruct ab initio PPL but only POST first solo XC.

However, the OML applies only to the class 1, so if they let it lapse to class 2, they now hold a PPL and class 2 medical, and can instruct ab initio PPL with no restrictions?

Are we reading this correctly, is it a loophole, does it need clarified or am I really missing the point?

[Whopity]

Are we reading this correctly, is it a loophole, does it need clarified or am I really missing the point? Just another anomally, the rules are not joined up, you are reading it correctly. Don't rock the boat!

[topoverhaul]

Essentially a Class 1 with OML is the same standard as a Class 2. Therefore PPL instruction may continue unrestricted, but CPL instruction is restricted as described in the table.

[ShyTorque]

So if you pop your clogs in the air with someone who doesn't know how to fly, that's OK, BUT with someone who does, it's not.

Is it me, or....?

[chrisbl]

It depends on the condition giving rise to the OML.


For a class 2 it might lead to a Class 2 OSL as in this example.


http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2499/Renal%20stones-CL1&2.pdf


Then instructing is unlikely to be allowed at all. Its best to consult the AME.

[OhNoCB]

Essentially a Class 1 with OML is the same standard as a Class 2. Therefore PPL instruction may continue unrestricted, but CPL instruction is restricted as described in the table.

Agreed with it being the same as class 2. Which means that someone with a CPL and a class 1 medical cannot teach the initial stages of a PPL but can after there class 1 lapses to a class 2. Super.

[topoverhaul]

I am failing to see where there is a problem. A Class 1 OML is generally equivalent to an unrestricted Class 2 (with a few exceptions as above.)
With a Class 2, one is operating as a PPL and as an FI, can instruct ab initio.
However to instruct a CPL course the FI needs to hold the same licence and therefore a Class 1. If this is restricted to OML, generally there is not a problem as one's student is post solo xcountry. The only difficulty comes with CPL integrated courses. The tables in CAP 804 are a complete mess as they have been cut and pasted from JARs and have not caught up with the fact that under EASA only a PPL is required for remunerated PPL instruction.