Hong Kong Airlines - New/Relevant info

[kr575m]

Hong Kong Airlines is doing quite a bit of upcoming hiring. I'm sure I am not the only one looking for some up-to-date relevant info. I've spent the last week reading through the many old threads. The current threads mostly contain people making fun of the management, safety standards, and telling everyone to STAY AWAY!
I hope there are some current or former employees with a more positive outlook. I'm coming from a 5 year regional FO background, so I would look forward to an increase in salary and the opportunity to receive a better type rating and experience a new part of the world. I'm single, so I wouldn't need more than a studio apartment.


I'll start with a few questions (A320 FO Position):


How is the schedule?
Do you do many overnights?
How are the hotels?
How often are you used on reserve days?
The contract says 8-9 days off a month. But it also says you fly 60-70 hours a month. So, there must be a lot of days you don't fly? Or do you just come into work to do a turn?




Thanks for any feedback.

[Flying Clog]

Come for the free type rating and hours. Leave for all the reasons mentioned in your 4th sentence.

:}

[MD83FO]

I have exactly the same questions as kr575

1500 pic on A320, 8500 total, and i never want to see a muslim country ever again.

[jefkaw320]

kr575m and MD83FO,


How is the schedule?


Specific to A-320. Mixture of 1-3 day trips. Most of the flying is to Mainland China. There are some turns to Japan, Hanoi, and Bangkok. All of the overnights on the A-320 are in Mainland. Most departures are late morning or mid-afternoon. A-320 has 2 all night flights....1 to PEK and 1 to BKK. Typically a pilot will have 1-2 per month unless he is the rare breed who enjoys all night flights....he can request to do more. Schedule requests are due by the 10th of each month and rosters are published the 20th. There is no computerized bidding and seniority is not a factor in rosters. You make requests for what you like and Crew Control attempts to accommodate.



Do you do many overnights?


All of the overnights are what are called 3-0-3. So, fly 3 sectors on the first day, spend 2 nights in China and fly 3 sectors on the 3rd day. These trips are mixed with the 1 day turnarounds. Therefore, a line F/O would do approximately 5 of these per month equaling 10 nights per month on the road.



How are the hotels?


5 Star, Western brands such as Hilton or Intercontinental.



How often are you used on reserve days?


Rarely



The contract says 8-9 days off a month. But it also says you fly 60-70 hours a month. So, there must be a lot of days you don't fly? Or do you just come into work to do a turn?


The A-320 flying is very inefficient. The 3-0-3 patterns typically give you about 10-12 hours in 3 days. It is rare to get above the minimum CAD FTL day off requirement. You will have a mixture of flights and standby days. Referring to above, it's rare to fly on a standby day.


As for the previous threads about HKA and all of the negative sentiment on PPrune regarding HKA.....ignore. You're an adult and a professional. Interview...decide for yourself. If you based your decisions on what you read on PPrune, you wouldn't work for any airline, even CX. PPrune is not a place to come to find "this airline is great and all of the managers are awesome!".


I've attempted to give you answers without any "Kool-Aid" or biased negativism towards HKA.


Hope that helps.

[Black Sheep One]

Well done, Jeffkaw.

A mature reply is rare on this forum these days. Airlines are never going to please every lifestyle - like any job, you pick what suits your circumstances.

[crwkunt roll]

At least you guys get 5 Star, Western brands such as Hilton or Intercontinental.

[HEALY]

What are you taking about crwkunt roll, we get Western Hotels.....it just has the word Best written before it:}

[crwkunt roll]

......... and "BY" in front of "BEST".

[TwoTone-7]

What about A330 fleet? Cheers

[jetjockey696]

Does anyone know.. do they have command upgrade course yet??? otherwise waste of time going.

[AQIS Boigu]

Less than 10 commands in the last five years...

[hongkie]

Forget it if you are not a hongkie like me. := Our assistant fleet manager will only promote cathay dropouts in HKA on the A330:ok:

[jowong1]

Any latest news on hiring? HKA and HKE? HKE's website says they r looking for NTR FO...is that true? Anyone has any direct contact at HKE?

[chrispatrickGA]

Hi everyone,


Anybody can give me the A330 captain package in HKA?
thanks for your info.

[DETRESFA]

Heard HKA just terminated A330 Captain for no reason still within contract period:confused:Is this true? If true then not good to go HKA.:=

[uk-pilot25]

Company run by assh#$es, con men, liars, corrupt and I could go on! Stay well away from them is my advice. Just as with Hong Kong Express, same poor standards run by a bald narssocist ozzy ****, a singaporean who talks **** and drunk 24/7 and Brazilian twats

[highflyboy]

I recently submitted my résumé but I immediately get an e-mail stating out of office. Is that normal?

[Killaroo]

I hear the new (2 months) GMF has resigned. Third one in 12 months.
Rumour is he had a run in with the company 'bully-boy' and quit.

This chap seems to be alienating everyone he meets. How can a FltOps Dept run under this kind of regime?

One things for sure - the IPO is dead in the water while there's a cap on aircraft numbers, and the CAD will not lift that cap while DFO's are continuing to resign like this. That's a huge and costly impact from just one man's poor attitude.

More pilot resignations can be expected after the CNY Bonus (or sooner if there is no bonus).

[Pucka]

Heard same...apparently they are about to go under another CAD audit!!

[sally]

Just to offer another opinion....I worked for HKE for 5 years (would have left earlier but for family reasons) and although most of my pilot colleagues were good guys it is almost impossible not to be affected by the chronic incompetence/dishonesty of management. Whether it is command upgrades, getting annual leave, errors in your pay, roster disruption or constantly changing contractual terms and conditions, it is difficult not to become very frustrated and stressed working for HKE. I had friends at HKA and I know that it is even worse there! The huge turnover of staff and the CAD restrictions are evidence of this. I would recommend to stay clear of both airlines unless you are desperate and you plan to get the type rating and leave.

[chouchou22]

it is such a bull**** airline

[chouchou22]

i do approved it. HKA is getting worst. They are right now trying to finalize a program for cadet in order to face the lack of pilot. No one want to join and more are going to resign. The management team are crazy and focus on the way to keep their authority on people...they give a **** of the potential of pilot or whatever...all is about how to sufficiently lie to pilot just to maintain the actual ops.

HKA = 0

[crwkunt roll]

I have no idea what you just said.

[squarecrow]

Ya I agree, have you got even level 3 mate? your post is not going to be taken seriously like that.

[AfriAnt]

I got the same message when I sent mine in!!

[doubledeckera380]

Let me share my experience (even though I was ex HKA back in 2007)

I had an interview for flight ops position

Guess what the DFO said, "What would you say if we mark your KPI to the number of pilots recruited? So if you cant recruit the minimum crew that is required, we take a reduction in your salary?"

Man was I thrilled. I am now a Salesman. That is more than fair and square I said. Waste my time even looking back at this company Lol :}

HKA: Horrendous Krazy Azzholes Lol

[lee_apromise]

Turboprop driver here looking to move onto a jet. Is this requirement really the realistic requirement or are they actually looking for some higher numbers?

A320 Direct Entry First Officers (Non type-rated) applicants should meet the following minimum criteria:
Minimum 1,000 hours total pilot flight time;
Minimum 500 hours in aircraft above 10,000kgs;
Minimum 200 hours on a EFIS type aircraft;
Holder of a valid Multi-Engine ICAO ATPL or CPL (with examination passes at ATPL level) with Instrument Rating acceptable by HKCAD;
A valid Radiotelephony Operator’s license;
A valid Class 1 Medical Certificate;
ICAO English level 4 and above;
Last flight within 12 months.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

I don't work there so someone correct me if you have more accurate figures, but my sources tell me a junior F/O with minimal or no jet time can expect about $60,000HKD per month (which includes housing) with overtime after 50 hours.

[PropDude]

Would love to hear from some prop dudes if they make it in :ok:

[lee_apromise]

Would love to hear from some prop dudes if they make it in

According to source I have, they won't even bother with turboprop drivers. Too many applicants with jet hours. :(

[PropDude]

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[airdualbleedfault]

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
Believe me propdude, you are dodging a very large calibre bullet

[coldastone17]

How's the situation in HKA now? Got a buddy who is due for interview this month. Info much appreciated

[PropDude]

I am searching this forum everyday for new info. Haven't found a positive thread or even a positive comment for any airline!!! :ugh:

[White None]

Put it this way mate, I have given an unbiased info pack of data, conditions facts etc to my Sons then, after having been asked repeatedly for an opinion - strongly advised them to choose a different career and feed any aviation desires by hiring stuff to play with at the weekend..... OR join the Miltary.

[coldastone17]

:ok:....well said

[PropDude]

Hehehehe yea , my father tried the same with me but didn't work. Anyway it doesn't sound like a bad deal for NTR people looking to move froward to jets.

[timothy9338]

So speaking of the cadet program, it states a guaranteed interview.. by the looks of the downhill trend above would it be safe to say they would most likely employ their cadets ?

[kolob666]

Prop drivers, put in a CV with HKE, they have recently hired prop drivers. It's not the greatest company but you don't have to pay to fly and you don't have to pay for your type rating.

[lee_apromise]

Prop drivers, put in a CV with HKE, they have recently hired prop drivers. It's not the greatest company but you don't have to pay to fly and you don't have to pay for your type rating.

They are only looking for type rated guys for now. Last year, they were offering A320 NTR FO positions however its recruitment just got stopped for no apparent reason.

[CaptLeazinho]

I thought they just had a round of interviews a a few days ago.
Is that true ? and if so anyone knows how many interviewed and how many got hired ?
I sent my application and never got an answer back , is there a lead on who to contact ?

[timothy9338]

Hi, i also sent in an application but haven't heard form them yet..

[FMSPEED]

Hi, I just would like to get an idea how long is the traning for NTR FO since day 1 until check line ? and also how much is the salary within that period ?

regards

[hongkie]

HKA is no longer hiring as they are restructuring.

No more non type rated, and less than 3000 hours guys.

[Ozavatar]

So does that mean if someone has over 3000 TT and only Type Rated on the A320 , they can get a look in.

Can someone on the inside of HKA elaborate that for us.

Oz

[coldastone17]

Yup...From a fren of mine who applied recently:

He went for interview recently. He is rated on A330...with more than 3000hrs. And they sent him an email stating his successful application pending medical.

So its true...

[Ozavatar]

Thanks Coldastone ,

I would really like to hear from the group if anyone has got a look in with only Turbo Prop hours over 3000 TT and just a Type Rating only on A320 and how did they go about getting a job /look in with HKA.

Thanks

Oz

[Highflyah]

FM,


I'm hearing that it is 3 months. I don't know what the breakdown is within that time frame, but if you find out please keep us posted.


Thanks.

[Scott_T]

Can someone who has gone through the interview process please PM me?

[hkgyyzhkg]

They were setting up a cadet program in Europe last year for those without flying experience.

It's ridiculous because they make you pay for all the training and at the end, you MIGHT get an interview. An interview, not offer of employment. So after you spend all those money getting trained to be a pilot, you might not even get an interview.

I realize that's how almost all other pilots do it, but if you are going to set up a "cadet program", you can make them pay for it but you have to hire them or else whats the difference between the cadet program and normal flight school?

[boocs]

Gold Coast tourism to be boosted by Hong Kong Airlines | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2015/07/31/gold-coast-tourism-to-be-boosted-by-hong-kong-airlines/)

b.

[mince]

How much are A320 Captains paid?

[CaptainProp]

3 year contract with WASINC according to their website:

Basic Compensation Package (based on 50 hour minimum):
A320 Captain with 3000+ hours jet PIC time: $15,957 per month
A320 Captain with less than 3000 hours jet PIC time: $14,636 per month
Overtime available above 50 hours:
51-60 hours: $109/HR
61-70 hours: $122.50/HR
71+ hours: $135.40/HR
Current schedules include flight times of 60-70 hours per month.
Performance Bonus: (paid annually based on personal performance)
- 1st anniversary after checked to line: $6,450
- 2nd anniversary after checked to line: $12,900
- 3rd anniversary after checked to line: $19,350
Vacation: 28 days of paid leave per year.
Hong Kong Airlines will provide the following assistance as you transition to living and working in Hong Kong:
1. 2 weeks hotel stay will be provided when you arrive in HKG for training.
2. Moving expenses (shipping personal effects or excess baggage charges) will be reimbursed up to $4,448.
3. Up to 4 one way tickets for employee and family will be provided from your home to HKG.

Google is your friend ;-)

Looking at these numbers, nowhere near enough money to live well in HK.

CP

[Trafalgar]

Good grief! You couldn't live in the Philippines on that, more less HK. What a complete joke. It would have to be 3 to 4 times that amount to even begin to be acceptable living in HK. :eek:

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Good grief! You couldn't live in the Philippines on that, more less HK. What a complete joke. It would have to be 3 to 4 times that amount to even begin to be acceptable living in HK
I'm not sure what you're smoking, as this is more than double what a new joiner s/o at CX would get, and probably at least 30% more than a new joiner f/o at KA would get. I'm not saying it's great, but they still seem to be getting guys willing to join so it can't be that bad. And you'd be living like a king in the Philippines on that.

[CPA777]

That must be in USD...

[kwaiyai]

@ Trafalgar, as Sue R says if you need 45K plus USD a month to live in HK you need serious Help and 15 for Phills OMG I couldnt throw it away quick enough.
The Figures are in USD mate.

[Trafalgar]

Ok, USD...got it, much better. Don't know why I wouldn't realise that a HK airline centric post would be in USD...! ;-)

[jetjockey696]

Top FO pay (3000hr jet) = 84750HKD -50hr flight (10900USD) which including housing.

lower FO pay (1500hr jet) = 77250HKD-50hr flight (9900USD) including housing.

Top Capt pay (3000hr jet) =123750HKD -50hr flight (15960usd) including housing
Low Capt (<3000hr) =113750HKD (14600usd)

if you fly a330 (FO or Capt) ADD ANOTHER 2500 (FO) /5000hkd (600usd) CAPT allowance PER MONTH.


need to pay 15% Tax of annual earning

no school, no loss of licence, no transportation

yes to medical insurance

[polaris79]

Hey guys.. great info here thanks but any info on the profile and interview tech exam? Anything on the interview would be much appreciated...

Thanks!!
P

[sewerpiper]

Guys, a great place to prep for interview is here: Hong Kong Airlines Pilot Interview-Latest Pilot Jobs-Latest Pilot Jobs (http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/interviews/view/subject/Hong%20Kong%20Airlines%20Pilot%20Interview)

Also, the pay figures posted previously are correct, but that is at base pay of 50 hours. A normal month for me is closer to 65-70 hours. So on Senior 330 FO pay, i get somewhere around 14K a month. But living in Hong Kong, that isn't as much as it sounds. Lots of rumors about another pay raise, hopefully much better than the last one.

[radiant]

Anyone has info about the HKA interview latest

[radiant]

I received an invitation on HKA Pilot interview which will be held in November 2015,I am not sure if HKA is a reliable airlines.i am not current on my A320.am I consider not rated or what.

I'm not current anymore

[legoswag]

I would like to know if HKA is hiring prop driver??? Any advantage if you have hkid for direct entry fo (ntr) position??

Do they fly you to HK for interview?
How is schedule and upgrade?

Pay seems better than cadet programe, correct me if I am wrong. Fo time is better than so time as well

[MENELAUS]

Or Dalton computers. Oh, hang on. He's too young to know what that is. ?!!
In all seriousness. Avoid HKA and the HNA and the HPA like the plague.

[Lowkoon]

Sound advice.

[sebatsea]

Care to elaborate gentlemen? The plague?!? That bad??

[Tibus]

Hi Guys!

Does someone know if HKA hire freshly type rated pilots with less than 1000Hrs TT?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[jetjockey696]

How is the interview process for pilots?? any updates??

[Tekor Bali]

Hi.
Please could someone share any news about assessment process with HKA?
Thanks

[flyingpilot89]

Hi guys, anyone here got thru the FO interview on the A330. Would appreciate if you could share some info. I have my interview in the coming month. Thanks in advance. Cheers

[coldastone17]

Post msg me..if u keen. Cheers

[flyingpilot89]

Hi coldastone17. I'm new here. Tried to pm u but it say I'm not allowed. Not sure why.

[coldastone17]

Yup I tried to pm you. But unable too mate...not sure about your settings.

[zpknio]

Hi guys,
Anyone has any news about the HKA A320 assessment?
Thanks.

[Ex-Brazilian]

Heard that HKA is receiving 30 A320 + 15 A350 in the next few years... is that correct?

They have a kind of partnership with HKE?

Anyone knows anything about upgrades? Minimum hours?


:}

[patxiPA]

Hello,

Anobody did the interview recently?
Any tips?

Thanks

[AlexanderH]

Anyone have any info on the atpl/tech interview questions?

Much appreciated.

[ChinaBeached]

Everyone has told you guys what HKA is like to work at, yet you can't wait to join the race to the bottom. Just like CX C-Scale, pilots will always lower themselves to accept sh!t sandwiches then moan when their breath stinks.

Interview tips? Here's one: Don't go. That's the the advice every seems to be giving you.

Otherwise, they fly A320's and A330's. How about you studying up on them and basic IR sim profiles. Shock horror! You might get a V1 cut and raw data ILS, just like almost every other sim profile in the world. You might need to know basic ATP / ATPL stuff. HKA is guess where? In HK! So how about you study up on rental prices, costs of living, etc of HK? Is it just me or is this all too obvious?

Friends of mine joined HKA before & after their 330's came. A few spoke out against the DFO's blatant lies and so he fired all of them from the same nationality in one foul swoop. "Trouble makers" he called them when he was caught out as an undeniable liar. (Eventually they ended up at CX on CoS 08). The management lied to them for years about seniority and deliveries, & still do but so many lap it up. HKA were placed on the CAD Cat 2 register for a reason. So where are the 380s, 777s & 350 orders that the DFO assured the pilots were coming / on order?

Seriously, some of you could be handed a rotting bowl of curry, be warned about the repercussions yet still eat it. Then moan here about your rancid stomach for getting what you asked for.

[highflyboy]

Question are they hiring non-typed onto the A320 again?

[Yonosoy Marinero]

And the gold diggers keep flocking to the empty mine...

This would be hilarious to watch if it didn't sound the death knell of the airline pilot profession as a whole.
:(

[highflyboy]

I hear what you all are saying but some of us are really out of options on choices and begging for jobs right now. I agree that some of the stuff that's going on isn't the greatest but for a select few of us it's better than what we have now or are capable of getting without either gaining a completely new foreign license or going to a pay to fly scheme.

[sebatsea]

I will just say a few words for those that "know what's best" for some!!!
When you are stuck in Europe, or in USA, or in South America in a small company, or in a bigger company, on a not so "great" aircraft, with a crappy salary and with almost zero perspective, then you will take whatever in behind door nr.2!
When almost all the European companies make the pilots pay the TR for a B737 or A320, and one has NOT the financial means or does not agree with this type on "procedure" will take, again what's behind door nr.2!!
The salaries in the Asian market are NOT small at all...btw, have you seen the amount of money a Ryanair FO is making???? How dare we blame people for wanting something better.
Looking from your positions, gentlemen, with thousands of hours on an Airbus or a Boeing, with your upgrades and some money stacked (if you were smart enough) it seems that we're all idiots :( ...I believe you are out of contact with the real job market problems back here...:ugh: Maybe it's not Heaven, but most certainly it's better than a Regional in Europe/US which pays 2500 EUR or USD/month for an FO...
It depends, of course what the hell you want from life: you want a PIC or F/O position where you fly 900HRS/year and get30.000 to 60.000E/year, with no permanent contract, no medical, etc ??? or you fly 700hrs/year and get 110.000E/year, maybe with medical insurance? Expenses are not very different...in Milano a nice apartment will set you back around 1500-2000E/month in a nice district... London even more expensive...And you will STILL be away from home... True, in Europe...flying for a low cost...:yuk:
Wake the hell up and look around...it's a freaking jungle due to those that took bank loans and payed their TR, and set the "habit"...:mad: management!!!
Please be so kind and := DO NOT get into a rough discussion here...it's just my humble opinion...

[sebatsea]

I know what you're pointing out, but in Italy, a FO will make 1800-2500EUR/ month...imagine living in a nice place with this kind of money. While in HKG, out of 80.000HKD - roughly, you may spend 25.000 for a nice serviced apartment in Lantau for e.g.
well, maybe PICs in Lufthansa, making 250.000 Eur/year can afford a 5000 eur/month rent...
Cost of living in Asia is high? A coffee in LHR is 4pounds...a pint is 6...a decent meal in a Pub is 15-20pounds... and the income is still LOW...
so you make more money, you spend more...
I know you get my point and my "anger", so to speak...

[coldastone17]

Sebatsea...
Good points..but I still think you are not clear on what our keen frens are seeking...to join or not HKA? Maybe you know something but you are holding back?
Maybe you work for someone in Hk...I don't know mate. But if you do, it would be nice to come straight to the point..cheers

[highflyboy]

In that case I'll have to brain storm what else I'm good at doing because there isn't much else I enjoy doing and an office job is not my thing. I agree with you 100% aviation is on a extreme downward spiral. It's gone a full 180 only a privileged rich few can afford the options that are available now. Pay 2 fly or pay your own type, minimums so high that guys just getting a license won't stand a chance for years to come. I'll take your advice, 2000+ hours 3 ATPs into this I think I'm going to call it quits.

[highflyboy]

Well Dan you "old-timers" were absolutely right but a lot of you have also failed to admit that the industry is screwed up because of the "old-timers" if you look at the people in management in most companies they are part of the baby boom era. If you look at the economy it's a a downward spiral but again who are the heads of all these corporations "the baby boomers aka the old-timers". One generation alone has managed to screw up so many things on a global scale. Is agree that all these airlines should be paying more but again it is a privilege for an airline to give you housing or offer housing allowance, it isn't something they have to give. You made the decision to take a job in a foreign country so you should have to find your own place to live on your salary not the company giving you a housing allowance or giving housing it's a privilege that they do. Abuse of that privilege and many others by pilots themselves has caused managements to take away or lower these privileges. I personally find that is what a lot of the "old-timers" are not admitting to themselves. Taking huge housing allowances and buying houses and pocketing the remainder of the cash just milking the cow. Well due to the abused of that generation the shoe is now on the other foot for this generation and it's a damn shame that this generation not only have to deal with the destruction of the generation before us but we also have to find a solution to see to it that those after us never go through what we did. Abuse only begets more abuse people. Own up to your mistakes.

[TheBiggerD]

Sebatsea wrote:
"Maybe it's not Heaven, but most certainly it's better than a Regional in Europe/US which pays 2500 EUR or USD/month for an FO..."



Remember that is just 1st year FO pay in the States. And remember ALL regional pilots in the States must have an ATP not a "frozen" ATPL as in Euro land.


Most regional guys in the States are staying put and waiting for a chance for a move to a Legacy or a LCC. Trust me, not many desperate American regional FO's wanting to move and live in HK for s**t pay and s**t conditions. You may be making more, but your cost of living will be nominally more. And if they do make the move, what will it get them? A 2000 hour FO on an A330 who moves back to the States or a 2000 hour FO on a CRJ or ATR who stayed in the States will still be first year FO's at the US legacy carrier they get hired on...So I don't see the advantage of jumping ship to Hong Kong for Regional FO's...Hence the difference between them and you. They see the big picture and will patiently wait it out while you will be playing musical chairs jumping from one job to the other and thinking you are beating the "system" while eroding conditions for other pilots....

[Flying Clog]

Nail. Hammer. Head.

:D

[Algol]

You lot need to give the kids a break. Sure, it's a dirty hand they've been dealt, and they have to just suck it up for a few years. If they're young free and single they might even enjoy HKG - maybe find a rich Chinese gf to spoil them.

It's the senior guys who really shouldn't be in HKA. They have options, and they exercise them on a weekly basis, when the timing is correct for them.

HKA is demonstrably a worse job than RyanAir. At least in FR you won't be flying freighters (or Pax) around the backside of the clock, followed by minimum rest and do it again. In FR you get to sleep in your own bed most nights.

In FR you get a fixed roster pattern. 5-3-5-4 is it?
In HKA you'll work 6 days on the trot, get 1 day off, and then whatever they like after that. Legal Mins, Legal Max's - ad infinitum. No pattern. No predictability. No stability.

In FR you fly in civilised Europe, with competent and co-operative ATC. In China you get to learn how to survive in an ATC war zone.

In Europe you get a bit of fog, a bit of wind, a bit of ice or snow - with good infrastructure to help you deal with it.
In China you'll face typhoons, monster CBs and the fog, snow and ice too at certain times. All with little or zero infrastructural assistance (refusal of WX deviations etc) and ATC who seem determined to kill you, or at least drive you insane. Remember - the buck ALWAYS stops with YOU.

In HKA, if you don't DOT every i, and CROSS every t correctly you'll be hounded and harassed by junior office clerks and pen pushers who will instruct you on the errors of your ways.
You'll constantly be reminded you're a gweilo, and not really wanted.

If you face bigger problems - an incident - the management will gladly rush to hang you, to protect their own asses, and the organisation. You are a Patsy.

Not many can stick it out for very long. The mental and physical fatigue takes its toll on even the most strong willed and resilient. Everyone finally reaches their limit.

Also, be prepared to be lied to and misled at every turn. Remember that at the interview.

And forget about going home to your family in Europe, or anywhere else. There is no commuting roster, and they'll die rather than give you even a regular series of days off. That would spoil you! Could encourage unwanted extracurricular activities (like, a family).
Swopping is severely discouraged.
Every form of petty penny pinching mean spirited imbecility will be constantly foisted on you.

That's the deal. Eat it and smile.

[sebatsea]

This is getting a bit too far.
1. @TheBiggerD I am wondering WHY are there so MANY U.S. pilots EVERYWHERE CX, QR, EK, EY, Copa, Astana, Air China, Spring, Shenzen, ETC ??? Is it because they went into the spiral? Since now you need ATPL in the US, why don't they go back home? I met guys, that will NOT go back to the US, for simple reasons: TAX, cost of living, families abroad...

2.@ coldastone - I am employed by a small Regional company in Europe. I have more than 2500HRS total, 2300jet time. My pay scale is stuck since 3 years ago...and as an FO, will be stuck for good...No upgrades in sight, no options... I started late, age wise, but now it's time to see what can I do about it...

I am not speaking out for everybody, since everybody has his own reasons for finding another job. Blaming one another, is quite easy, but the blame is also on the markets, on the Low Cost carriers, and ultimately on the Flying Schools selling you the dream, and some other entrepreneurs (TRO, SIM owners, providing "interview training") that seized the opportunity to skin young wannabe pilots alive...it's as simple as that...

[Algol]

Regarding point 8.
Very true.
When the weather turns nasty and the sh1t starts to hit the fan - the management make themselves scarce. There is no back-up for the line pilots facing the music. Nobody will ever make the decision to cancel. Operations is run by a nameless and faceless group in a building miles away, who seem to have no authority vested in them either.
Any decision to cancel falls squarely on the Captain, and woe betide him if they don't like the decision. It's generally as I H K says - better to go, take tons extra, and divert. They don't care. That lifts the decision making off their shoulders entirely.
On the other hand - if you go, and things turn out badly (severe weather encounters etc) you will be nailed to a cross.
It's a sick joke.
The pilots of HKA save the skin of that company on a daily basis, and get nothing but abuse in return.

[TheBiggerD]

Sebatsea,
Simple as to why they don't go back home.
They don't want to be a first year FO at a Legacy. Simple. You can be a 777 captain at EK and if you come back home and apply for a job with a Legacy carrier they will be in the same spot as a regional captain or FO who stayed home and applied for the same job at a legacy.


Hmmmm, an expat American pilot at Air China, Astana, or COPA or a pilot with a US legacy living in your home country with US laws and ALPA in place?......Easy decision; no brainer.....Trust me there is more to the story than what they are telling you or what you are hearing through the rumor mill......

Sebatsea, ultimately what is your long term career goal? Do you want to stay in Europe or are you willing to go halfway across the world to pursue the "dream".....If you want to live and work in Europe my advice is stay put and network, network, network like mad.....

If I had to leave the US and pursue the job with my wife and two young kids in hand, I would personally leave the industry. Being halfway around the world from friends and family to "live the dream", not my cup of tea personally. Much respect to those who do it.

Finally Sebatsea, don't blame the flight schools and TRTO's. Especially in the day and age of the internet and quick Google searches, all of the information is at one's fingertips....You mentioned that you have 2500 hours TT of which 2300 is in a jet. So you walked into a jet straight out of flight school!!!! You my friend really have nothing to complain about. Many of us had more than 2500 hrs TT before we even got a jet job!!!!

[Tekor Bali]

So, if this situation you are telling corresponds to reality, then it is really hard to live in HKA.
But from my info, the average salary of a FO on A320 should be around 7000 Euros per month, is it true?
I ask you, for those who know the cost of apartments in KH, are you unable to live there with this money? That is not a polemic, I ask for info, I am not informed about this topic.
Rather I'd like you remind what is the quality of life for instance in executive in Europe: very low salary, around 1200 euro month, no private life, crazy roster (you should be on duty 10 days but you will extend one week more), ftl..mmm no comment. Maybe someone would like to try to change this path moving somewhere, maybe HKA could be the only opportunity. But of course, if the situation in HKA was really so horrible, you could try and then...nobody will put a gun on your head to remain there, you can give up with this lifestyle and jobdream, back to normal life, family and friends, and bye bye to the aviation market.
At least, you tried it.

[Algol]

Like I said. If you're young, have no family and no other choice - go for it.
Get your type rating and move on.
It's not a career airline.

[azhkman]

Hi Tekor, EUR7k now equals around HKD60k per month. Is that net of taxes, or not? I am going to assume that is net.

Can you do it? Sure. But you'll be surprised what little it does do.

Family? I recommend Tung Chung or Discovery Bay. You are looking at 25k minimum for any place to have a family, and it will not be great. That leaves you 35k. School? Minimum 8k per child (+1k for the bus) and that is a school that people will cringe when you speak to them about. Now you are pushing it in your day-to-day expenses.

No Family? You can try to live somewhere else. For a one bedroom, you can look at HK Island. it will probably cost you 20k to 25k unless you go a studio route. This is where it deviates. If you go old and small, you may even be able to get something under 20k. If you want new and small, it will push 25k, likewise if you want old and big. If you want new & big, it will be over 25k. Sure, you can play the neighborhood game, and if you are willing to go to a very local neighborhood, like Sha Tin, you may be able to save up to 3k. But you may not have many friends around you, and you'll find your transportation costs go up correspondingly to your savings.

For either, you can find your grocery costs going up. If you eat out for a Western style meal, it will cost you between HKD150-300, and likely double if you add alcohol. Not a drinker, it will save you some. Non-Western meals will save you about 50% too. Cucumbers from Holland? HKD30. It adds up. Especially since the grocery prices follow CPI, but your wage increases won't. For example, a package of four US chicken breasts was HKD115 when I moved here, it's HKD154 now.

The best bargain in HK is transport which is more or less the same cost as when I moved her almost 9 years ago.

In summary, if you are single, selective about where you live and see many places before you decide, and be judicious about eating out (I assume a single guy won't be cooking) you can do it and you may even save a little.

[Tekor Bali]

Thank you azhkman.
Let me see how things will go...not sure, but you confirmed what I knew, regarding price and areas for living, many crews in Discovery Bay.
Wife and baby are the biggest challenge, to go or not to go. Not for the moment, maybe after.
Are you from AZ?
Cheers

[azhkman]

Yes, originally from Arizona.

[CEA330Driver]

Here is a little something I wrote earlier on another thread. I've copied it for simplicity's sake.

To put it into perspective; a few years ago I applied for a captain position with a low cost Hong Kong carrier to fly the A320. Being licensed in Hong Kong, having plenty of Hong Kong/China experience and having a permanent HK ID I was quickly offered a position with the start-up. It was pretty exciting for us, thinking about all the things we loved about Hong Kong. It was time to do the math before I officially accepted the position. We started with housing. By browsing real estate websites, and knowing where we wanted to live, we started jotting down rent. From there is was schooling: debentures fees were through the roof and there was a high probability that we weren't going to get our kids a placement in school without having to fork out at least $C 70,0000 (non-refundable, and no guarantee of a placement in the school). School fees were not cheap, nor was the cost of living (which was considerably higher since we had left). Add transportation, utilities etc. when we added up all the potential expenses, the salary (which was certainly not minimum wage) would not cover them. We then had to change where we were to live in order to make our numbers work. Tung Chung was pretty much the only place we could live where the rents were a bit lower and we could avoid transportation. Bottom line: a move to Hong Kong would mean that we could put $1000 per month into our pockets as disposable income. Staying in Canada, selling our principle residence, downsizing and reinvesting the equity, sending our kids to public school, we could live on a minimum wage salary in Canada - albeit not in the lifestyle we are accustomed to. Doing the same, moving to Hong Kong and working for a low-cost carrier, we would be treading water at best with no guarantee of educating our children. It didn't make economic sense three years ago and it hasn't changed. To top it off, why would I want to work in a toxic environment where very few pilots respect their company and management simply has no respect for their staff? Hong Kong used to be the be-all, end-all for many aspiring and experienced pilots, now unless you are already established, it is nothing more than a temporary stop. Minimum wage is relative: to many Canadians they get by - just. Minimum wage in Hong Kong is a fast track to poverty.

[Flying Fortress11]

Seriously guys, take everything you read on PPrune with a pinch of salt. There are good and bad things about Hong Kong, and if you can learn to adapt to the negatives then you may end up loving it.

Firstly, people like Dan Buster and Chinabeached are the last people in the world you should be listening to. These are seasoned 'old timers' that are so out of touch with the real world that their opinions are just beyond irrelevant. Unfortunately, these are the guys who joined in the golden era and feel entitled to insult anyone who joins on lesser contracts than them. However, it's still rather comical to find these 'seasoned veterans' sitting on their supposed gold mines whingeing away on PPrune day-in day-out...and it's because they have no one and nothing else to do with their life. Their third wife has already left them, they're feeling lower than low, and the only remedy to their loneliness is to come on PPrune and insult everyone. It's getting old...!

I'm not going to lie, Hong Kong is a difficult place to live and after spending 5 years here I am ready to leave. However, that's not to say it isn't for everyone as my reasons for wanting to flee are mostly non-financially related. I'm a year 2 FO at the other "dreadful airline" and all-in I get around $100,000HKD per month. I'm not too sure what the HKA package offers but I assume it's relatively comparable. I'm married, no kids and with tax at 15%, a decent flat (2-3 bedroom, 600-800sq') costing around $20-32K in rent, it's not all too bad. For me though, the most difficult aspects of life in Hong Kong is the daily living. For example: living in such close proximity to everyone else, having to deal with smells and noises you may not be used to, having to listen to the Chinese people hock, burp, fart, slurp almost everywhere is just intolerable. I miss the fact I can pick up a phone and get something sorted without having to go via three people, each as clueless as the other, just to hear "sorry cannot". The list goes on but I'm not going to bore you with it all. Basically, adapting to Chinese customs is something you need to be able to do...and that's easier said than done!

Regarding expenses, house prices are so expensive that I can almost guarantee it will be too expensive for you to buy into. A 4-bedroom house in Discovery Bay with a garden will cost around 30+ million (look here if you don't believe me: Buy & Rent Homes - Squarefoot - Hong Kong Apartments, Homes, Real Estate for Sale (http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/)). Imported food is quadruple the price it is back home. Schooling is ridiculous with the better schools having limited spaces. Debentures have therefore gone through the roof and it will be out of your reach unless you're joining with already very deep pockets. I personally don't find bills too expensive with my gas, water and electric coming in at about $1,000 per month. Cable TV is rubbish but the internet is fast so a good VPN will give you access to all the stuff back home. If you chose to have a car, fueling it and finding a place to park will be your biggest issues as used cars are pretty cheap. The transport system is great though so you probably won't need a car unless you live on South Lantau or out in the New Territories.

If you plan on moving to HK with children then you really need to think hard about this, and I personally think Hong Kong may not be the right place for you. It will require a huge amount of sacrifice from yourself and your wife, which ultimately could lead to unnecessary strain on your marriage. However, if your current job has a whole host of other problems then it may be a no brainier for you.

At the end of the day, we're all adults here and you ultimately need to decided what's best for yourself and your family. If you're coming as a single guy to get a free type rating, some experience and then run, it may be a great deal. If you plan on having a future here, buying a house and raising a family, then I think it will be out of your reach on the current offerings.

Good luck to you all

[ChinaBeached]

Agreed. Take everything with a pinch of salt, and that means to do your due diligence to come up with sound reasoning and facts to make a decision and not from a "rumour network" website - as I've written countless times before.

But guys like you FF11 don't do your due diligence before deciding to attack the player and not the ball.

Firstly, people like Dan Buster and Chinabeached are the last people in the world you should be listening to. These are seasoned 'old timers' that are so out of touch with the real world that their opinions are just beyond irrelevant. Unfortunately, these are the guys who joined in the golden era and feel entitled to insult anyone who joins on lesser contracts than them. However, it's still rather comical to find these 'seasoned veterans' sitting on their supposed gold mines whingeing away on PPrune day-in day-out...and it's because they have no one and nothing else to do with their life. Their third wife has already left them, they're feeling lower than low, and the only remedy to their loneliness is to come on PPrune and insult everyone. It's getting old...!

I interviewed and passed the CX interview in early 2008 and was amongst the first to be offered C Scale. I've been to HK more times than I can recall and with many, many friends at CX, KA, corporate as well as investigated HKA personally and taking the accounts of close friends who were & still are there. So by your opinion I'm the "last person" to listen to? Best sit down and take the advice of someone with none of that first hand experience, eh? Maybe a CX C-Scale iCadet like yourself would be better? (More on that later....)
"Seasoned old timers?" I'm under 40 years of age. If you'd have bothered to have read my posts from the beginning you'd have worked that much out based on timeline and my own history, as divulged by myself. But you haven't. You've just come up with a deluded account to satisfy your own conceited need to verify your imbecilic attack & reasoning as to why to discredit me, as well as DB.
"Golden Era"? See the above point. But I will admit to making the most of the options laid in front of me borne from necessity as well as those that experience, credentials and qualifications enabled me to take advantage of. If you had them then you'd understand and wouldn't write such embarrassing and resoundingly inaccurate lies about me and others.
"Insult"? If this is insulting then good. It's meant to. I'm very blunt and harsh. I don't suffer fools, hence my vitriol toward fools writing inaccuracies about me. In my previous post on this thread I, like others, had had enough of some similar fool begging for cheat-notes (dare I say the "Vol-8's") on how to pass a widebody DEFO sim. I & those before your pitiful existence passed the CX interview to a standard C-Scale iCadets could never fathom. So you pretending to fit into any form of a pilot uniform is insulting, hence I choose my words as I see apt and correct. I actually insulted myself in even writing it for him so as just to shut him up. But after all, that's the standard some people and airlines accept nowadays, as you're evidence of. (Imagine relying on a "rumour network" to turn to for "factual information"? Agreed - it's insulting to one's intelligence to read....)
"Third wife?" No. Happily married to the same first and only wife I could wish for. Even with a job that has given me thus far greater career progression and long term financial security than CX, KA or HKA could. My wife and I are are very happy. Strange to a guy like you that someone under 40 can have a secure job in an airline, with good career progression and be extremely happily married, eh? You made your decision, my wife & I made ours. We're happy. By your own admission you can't say the same.


after spending 5 years here I am ready to leave.
So, I'll do with you what you couldn't seem to do regarding my profile: it's 2016, you've been at "that other dreadful airline" for 5 years, hence you joined in 2011. Inductive reasoning (look it up) says you're therefor most likely at CX, & I'm almost 100% sure I'm right. A such that also dictates that you're a C-Scale iCadet [and that is how you'll be known for life no matter where you go in your career]. So after "2 years" as an FO you've amassed only 2 years of ICAO recognised hours since the CX P2X (SO) rating hours are not ICAO recognised. Some airlines I understand may make a waiver and accept 500 hrs of your sandwich hours, but I know of maybe only one. You've therefore amassed 175 hrs for your CPL, approx. 1500 hrs as an FO = approx. 1675 of ICAO recognised hours. With that total aeronautical experience you think you're some super cool dude reverse high-fiving pilot beach volleyball player, don't you?! And if you do have more hours than that and came to CX with more hours only to be a C-Scale iCadet then you're more of a fool than you've exposed yourself to be. It just means you were a failed pilot elsewhere who couldn't get a job and so had to take the scraps to be the cheapest backside in a seat. And still I'm the last person to take advice from you say? You begged for & took what I threw away as a pathetic insult & from that stand point your opinion counts?

From the UK? If so you might be one of those illustrious RAF "classroom pilots" who actually never even started their flight training and were subject to budgetary cuts and hence lost their seat in the classroom before understanding what a 1:60 was. But fast jet pilots you weren't, no matter how many times such UK C-Scale iCadets start a conversation with "I was in the RAF....".

And yet it's strange that so many reputable airlines aren't banging down the door of your "decent flat (2-3 bedroom [which is it?], 600-800sq' [which is it?]) costing around $20-32K [which is it?] in rent..." You don't seem to know the size of your own flat, how many bedrooms it has or the cost of rent you pay and I'm the one not to take advice from? Seriously?

So in short, you're a guy who took the sh!t sandwich deal whilst everyone told you it was rubbish and of course must defend it with lies and accusations against others' characters who speak out against what you begged for. By all means you've the right to speak in your defence, but try using facts and not shear and utter lies about those who disagree with you.

Other points you raise about HK are valid. It's just a shame you're an exposed liar about the first part of your idiotic, immature and self-exposing reasoning.

Now, back to HKA....

HKA has turned over more Fleet Managers and senior managers than any other airline in the region. Why does this not set off alarm bells? Much as the last, the current DFO is nothing but a self serving snake from what I am told by those who are there and have suffered his backside covering management techniques. A (former?) influential senior executive was banished from Singapore by decree of the Singaporean Prime Minister. Still no alarm bells? They recruit CX CAT D pilots and fast track them to Cmd. Yes, they take pilots that CX stated (prior to C Scale) could not be promoted and made them Captains. One is even the Deputy Tng Mngr and designated 330 Test Pilot. Still looking like a great airline to work for? They were put on the CAD CAT 2 list for continual safety breaches and only just came off it not long ago. They operated widebody aircraft for years without being capable of being granted ETOPS approval due the CAD refusing to grant it after continual flight ops and safety breaches. Their continued promises of fleet expansion has been proven to be lies upon lies. Where are the 777's that were due in 2011/2? Where are the 380's due in 2013/4? If it happens, good, but bank on it based on their history? No, I couldn't and wouldn't. They are at the mercy of the HNA group and your contract states that you can be relocated at the Company's will - at least that's the contract I saw & have on my computer from 2011. See FF11, this is called "due diligence". Know what you're talking about before shooting your mouth off. I know what HKA was like then and is now and hence I know it was a good choice to stay away from when I turned down an insulting pay packet from CX that you lapped up.

[CEA330Driver]

@China Beached: Loved it! Well said.

[Steve the Pirate]

@ChinaBeached

I & those before your pitiful existence passed the CX interview to a standard C-Scale iCadets could never fathom.

Come on CB, don't be coy, tell us how good you really are :E

But guys like you FF11 don't do your due diligence before deciding to attack the player and not the ball.

Thankfully you don't stoop to the same level. By way of illustration I include the following:

From the UK? If so you might be one of those illustrious RAF "classroom pilots" who actually never even started their flight training and were subject to budgetary cuts and hence lost their seat in the classroom before understanding what a 1:60 was.

Very gentlemanly of you to seize on others' misfortune to illustrate your superior judgement - pure class.

I'm very blunt and harsh.

Seriously? Could have fooled me. I'll bet you're an absolute pleasure to fly with. As I sit here at my keyboard I can imagine listening to your tales of derring do and watching you buoy the crew with an endless line of witty banter.

Stirring stuff. :ok:

STP

[ChinaBeached]

Actually Steve, I'm a very laid back guy. I admit I'm brash & direct - no apologies. But I am so when the instance calls for it. Otherwise when people are willing to have an ammicable discussion & welcome other opinions then it's all the more pleasant. But in this instance the guys opening was a personal attack as to why guys like me shouldn't be listened to. I demonstrated in direct (& brash) terms why he's a tool. (See, easy, isn't it?)

He played the player & not the ball. No apologies therefore playing the game at his set standard.

I mention inductive reasoning as to my assumptions. I still believe I'm quite right & therefore used that to again demonstrate his most likely / almost definite background.

My crew & I enjoy overnights, beers & my downtime is spent with my family, & watching rugby with mates. Easy going guy really. But just as you believe that experience / hours don't count toward a pilot's potential or aptitude, you also think that an anonymous rumour website is basis to decide my persona to fly with.

Classy? My deduction of his background is quite near the mark if not spot on I reckon. He attacks me personally without any form of evidence but that's "classy"? But me making assumptions based on evidence is a no-no.... Just keep it balanced, eh Steve?

Your choice....

I believe experience, credentials & qualifications count. I believe that hours built in real time jeopardy & accountability in a real aircraft in real conditions are a pilot's mettle, not watching others doing it, or sitting in a safe, airconditioned non life threatening simulator is anywhere near as close. I also believe that a person's actions speak louder than words. I believe if you're the type of rugby player who throws cheap shots in a game then expect them back. The actions of guys like FF11 were responded to & exposed in the manner & rules he set. But you call me the bad guy??

[Steve the Pirate]

Hi CB, no I'm not calling you bad guy necessarily, it's just that I didn't feel that you needed to descend to his level to support your argument. Name calling is petty by any measure and I've always considered you to be above that.

But just as you believe that experience / hours don't count toward a pilot's potential or aptitude

Not entirely true. My argument is that hours, in and of themselves, do not necessarily reflect competence but that's another story. It's a semantic argument really but it seems it's difficult for some (including you it would appear) to grasp my point. Anyway, enough of that.

you also think that an anonymous rumour website is basis to decide my persona to fly with.

Was the sarcasm that obvious? If ever we meet for a beer I'll have the opportunity to form a true impression, until then, and to use a term quoted by an antagonist on another thread, my judgement is based on prima facie evidence.

Cheers,

STP

[Freehills]

I think you'll find FF 11 is from HK Express

[ChinaBeached]

Fair enough Steve, & point taken. I'm willing to take the criticism when I'm critical of others.

Hours alone do not quantify aptitude. The TYPE of hours do. 1000 hrs of instructing in CAVOK in the training area are not as good 1000 hrs as single pilot night freight in winter over high terrain performing NDB & (night) circling approaches. Add a few more thousand hours to that TT / experience level as well as ME Multi-Crew Cmd time & you can't tell me that you're happy with a monkey see monkey do book-regurgitator sitting beside you instead?

As I re-wrote above: I believe that hours built in real time jeopardy & accountability in a real aircraft in real conditions are a pilot's metal, not watching others doing it, or sitting in a safe, airconditioned non life threatening simulator is anywhere near as close.

Let's let it be & leave this thread to its main purpose which is about HKA.

[Steve the Pirate]

@CB

I agree, let's not hijack this thread. Check your PM.

STP

[etops777]

Hi all,

Shortlisted for a DEC A330 position. What is covered in the tech exam?

Looking for some.positive feedback. I understand the negative part of the company and has read through the thread about HK Airlines. What are the general consensus about the airline these days? How is the staff travel benefits? Any feed back is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[PropDude]

Anyone invited to the London Roadshow?

[iamanaussiemavrick]

Anyone has HR/ recruitment team contact ? Are they still hiring NTR330 captain ?

[LOU2]

Hi all,

I have just received terms and conditions for the commuting contract as capt A330 with the figures for more than 50hrs in a month. So I am wondering if with 20 days on you really fly more than 50hrs a month?

Is there anybody able to confirm. Thanks for you help and have safe flights

Lou2

[jetjockey696]

I see the new lifestyle rostering...for HKA

Package A: As per Hong Kong Airlines rostering
Package B: Monthly roster will include one block of 4 consecutive days OFF

AND

one block of 2 consecutive days OFF plus 2 days of annual leave assigned by HKA rostering.
Package C: Monthly roster will include one block of 8 consecutive days OFF plus 2 days of annual leave assigned by HKA rostering.

These new roster options will help to facilitate a lifestyle preference that HKA pilots get to choose from....:}

[ROW_BOT]

These new roster options will help to facilitate a lifestyle preference that HKA pilots get to choose from....http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

No they don't.
The existing HKA pilots are being fobbed off with 'Option B', while new joiners (including NTR guys) are to be offered any Option they want, including the most desireable Option C.
The existing HKA pilots are taking this like little lambs.
Or maybe they're expecting HKA Management to just lie, and screw over the newbies too. Anything is possible in this outfit. You take your chances.....

[Iver]

When will the first A350 arrive? Are they replacements for the 330s or are they supplemental?

[ROW_BOT]

The 350's will arrive in 2018 and are additional.

Any of you guys who are promised a 20/10 commuting contract - and if its a 'deal breaker' if you don't get it - be VERY careful. Don't give up a secure job to come here if you're depending on that. They'll promise the sun, moon 'n stars to get you signed up, but its one of THOSE places where they feel no compunction whatever in later changing the deal at their whim and to suit themselves.

Its a Chinese Airline, without the big bucks and guaranteed commuting.
Normally those benefits would counterbalance that "Chinese Attitude" that you have to learn to accept up North. But in HKA you'll get the full-on Chinese Attitude, without the benefits.
When you take money from these people - they OWN you,. Body mind and soul. You exist to serve. Nothing else is remotely important.

Whatever they promise, get it in writing, and be ready to walk when they don't deliver.
Otherwise, be prepared to join the ranks of the slaves they already abuse.

Oh, by the way, one detail you should consider - you get no 'freebies' to commute home. You pay for your own tickets. HKA Staff Travel is a PITA to use and you'll soon prefer just buying direct from the airline you'll be travelling with. The price difference is usually minimal anyhow because their Staff Tickets are overpriced. The application process is Byzantine, sheer drudgery.

The problem then arises that you may plan on going home on your last duty day (after your final flight). Forget that. The first and last days of your block days off will be spent travelling, because if you make a plan to go earlier they'll inevitably change your roster at the last minute.
They will never facilitate your commute by finishing you early before Days Off. They actually have a policy position against that because it encourages pilots to take risks with fatigue and missed connections.

Even if you do manage to get a swop (very difficult) onto an early finish - be prepared to get a phone call just before it starts telling you you're now switched to a duty with a late finish - thus screwing up your travel plans and probably costing you a full fare ticket. Happens all the time. There is no Roster Stability. There are no limits on the changes they may give you, only legal Min Rest and Max Duty limits.

Another favourite is to pull you off a flight (maybe your early finish before Days Off) and put you on a late Reserve, along with maybe another 10 reserves they already have.
So again your full-fare ticket gets flushed, along with your home plans, and you'll simply sit on your ass in HKG twiddling your thumbs when you could have been on your way back to your loved ones. They don't give a s**t.
They own you, so eat it and smile.

[Strewth]

HKA orders nine A333 in addition to the A359.

AIRBUS (http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/hong-kong-airlines-confirms-order-for-9-more-a330s/)

[yellowcontrails]

Heard a HKG based FedEx guy just joined HKA. He really must have hated flying freight! :sad:

[u3k bus driver]

He really must have hated flying freight!


and...


-his fat paycheck
-his housing allowance
-his respectable worldwide medical insurance policy
-his retirement
-his ALPA contract work rules and protections

[Luibar]

Or he was fascinated with the new fantastic lifestyle rostering on offer... who knows... :E

[jetjockey696]

Or he had a abused childhood... maybe like he pain and suffering.. without the need to pay.

[Hakeem]

Hello there,

Is there anyone who could help me with the contact person in HR or so... I have applied few months back however haven't heard them back since, except the auto generated mail saying they received my application.

Appreciate any inputs.

Thanks.

[Pilotjet320]

Hi guys, sorry if interrupt someone...
I have applied for HKG Airlines and got infor about a technical test before a Sim Assessment.
Do anybody has any idea what should be expected ?
Thanks

[HH Chan]

Then suggest a place for Him to ask..stop being a snob here.

[Killaroo]

Try the Wannabe forum?

[airdualbleedfault]

Gotta say there's an awful lot of negativity towards Hong Kong airlines here....... You guys have obviously worked there :}

[Below the glide]

When will the first A350 arrive? Are they replacements for the 330s or are they supplemental?

First one arrived 1st Sept.
2nd around 16 Nov and 3rd on 1st December.

They’ve offered 15 plus an additional 4.

Not to replace the A330.

[pfvspnf]

Air Asia coming?

[jetjockey696]

Yes..Air Asia coming to HK.. They want the Malaysian pilot back.. Malaysian license is a must.

19-20 October. Novotel City gate. 10-5pm..

[Gnadenburg]

No room for the CX moaning minnies with their griping culture. The lo$$ of their housing is so ironic. Its hilarious .

Some of my CX mates are fed up and on their way. They are looking for renters for their properties if you want to upgrade from Tung Chung . Big lifestyle pads, try them on for a HKA ID discount?

[raven11]

A370. You’re right it’s been a great run...time to retire...won’t work for peanuts....will be thinking of you.

Oh, and no point renting out the house..might as well cash it in....

Best of luck with your diminishing future prospects at HKA.

[Gnadenburg]

We've Heard it all before Gandey. A whole lot of guys with big mouths on the DB bus. But when push comes to shove, well we know the answer there.

And honestly, where are they going? Retirement? possibly. To JetStar? Good luck with that.

And try running a HK property when you are not in HK. I won't be getting my AirCon fixed, when the landlords on Bondi beach, sunning there white bits.



Yes, I'm not arguing with you there. I'm just saying I know two guys who are off but their houses will be available for you to rent.

Your last comment indicates no property management experience. I can tell you first hand, leasing a Bondi apartment is more problematic than leasing a HKG property which is relatively hands-off with no tenant rights. I'd even say HKG tenancies are far easier than commercial leases in Australia. You can screw HKG tenants on rent and even pinch their bond with relative ease. Try that in Australia and you will be strife.

[Freehills]

Now, that’s where irony does kick in, because the same lack of protection applies to labour and labour contracts in HK vs OZ, and the same comment that rorting someone in HK is easy to get away with vs OZ...

[mak3434]

Hi guys, sorry if interrupt someone...
I have applied for HKG Airlines and got infor about a technical test before a Sim Assessment.
Do anybody has any idea what should be expected ?
Thanks

Any update for the technical test ?

[Aviadorbrasil]

Does anyone applying at this time?

[LongTimeInCX]

Yes, but they would prefer only those with level 6 English to apply.

[ANTIPHOLUS]

Surely you meant those with level 6 English does applying at this time ?

[Flap3]

Can someone explain how is a normal roster on the A330 fleet?

Hours a month; layovers every month; etc.

Thanks a lot!

[XanaduX]

Has anyone used an agency to apply to HKA or is it better to apply directly to the airline?

Those who have gone through an agency, has anyone used APAS (Asia Pacific Aviation Services)?

[A350HK]

Yes, but they would prefer only those with level 6 English to apply.

Preferred yes. But i'm told its not a necessity.

[Luggage]

What's the deal with bonds at HKA and HKE? Are the 3/1 year bonds enforceable? Anyone been chased for the money?

Why, you thinking of doing a runner!!

[Start Fore]

Can you blame him?

[ROW_BOT]

Latest video of HKA Pilot Induction Course (https://www.scmp.com/video/china/2144733/footage-employees-being-slapped-crawling-dogs-company-meeting-china-goes-viral)

[mngmt mole]

Haha....!! You sir have a great sense of humor. :-).

[ROW_BOT]

HKA HR Pilot performance review


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTvaZM0zqB1-Xrhq5mCa1HLdlUTXVH-f-_7-yNEwNZtQXuQFRRU8Wu7D-5G8w

The video says they ‘begged to be slapped’.
Sounds about right!

or maybe they just got bad info on PPRuNe....