Arrest over cabin baggage dispute

[Trackmaster]

At last, the issue is being taken seriously. Well done Captain.
Jetstar luggage crackdown leads to Sunshine Coast arrest (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/jetstar-luggage-crackdown-leads-to-sunshine-coast-arrest-20141008-1139u3.html)

[prospector]

Well past time that some action was taken in regard to oversize cabin baggage.

Why are the frames supplied to measure any cabin baggage? I have never seen one used yet, even with what is obviously oversize luggage going onboard as hand luggage.

If it wont fit in the frame then there can be no argument.

[Intruder]

An arrest is one [good] thing. Getting a conviction and a reasonable sentence is, unfortunately, another all-too-rare event...

[Rate1]

Great to see oversize cabin baggage getting the once over.
Next has to be restricting the reclining of the seat in front so we all can have a comfortable ride in the limited space givern to us. Just spent a long time with someones head up my nose. There seems to be no form of courtesy or care for your fellow pax and the flight attendants seem to rush past as you delecately try to escape for a toilet break. This is a safety issue and the heated discussions that arise will i'm sure lead to skyrage.
I'ts not on trying to turn your economy seat into a business class bed.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

Get yourself a pair of these....


http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo92/RasputinDude/News%20Story%20Pix%202014/20140827_KneeDefender_zpsfca00318.jpg (http://www.kneedefender.com/goods/kneedefender.html)
KNEE DEFENDER. — Click on the image to learn more.

[deadcut]

Rate1,

Tough titties. Want a better seat? Pay for it.

Pretty sure you can't use those in Australia.

[Australopithecus]

Deadcut try this: wanna sell a seat? Make it suitable for the human paying for it.

[apache]

Gggrrrrr...... Cabin baggage!!! I hate it! And I applaud JQ et al for NOW trying to police it, BUT..... It is of their own making! The LCC's were the one who started to charge for checking in a bag, and the pax wished up to it. The pax then take advantage of it, and the airline gets upset. Now the pax get upset that the airline is belatedly enforcing the rules.



So.... Where was CASA in all of this? Surely they have seen pax and their carry on bags. I am sure that they have seen the airlines abuse the morality of travel...... But why haven't CASA actually stepped in prior to this, as either a safety issue, or compliance with AoC conditions?( should there actually be any)

[Unregistered User]

Am with deadcut.

Having travelled for years and the seat pitch has never really varied.

What has changed, is the discipline and attitude of the modern day airline passenger. Reclining, at non meal times, was never an issue, because people had the decency not to do it until the trays were cleared. If you want more space then, buy it.

I hope my thoughts have not "givern" anyone the sh*ts.

[allthecoolnamesarego]

If you keep paying for the tiny seats, they will keep selling them!
Am with dead cut on this. Pay more, get more!

[Pinky the pilot]

Also with deadcut. I've had some not too good experiences in economy, and on the other side of the coin, a few good ones.

But if I definitely want something better I know I must pay more.

Simple really.

[Keg]

Get yourself a pair of these....


Kiwithrottlejockey, install those on any aeroplane I'm in command of and I'll have you arrested for interfering with the operation of an aircraft.

[catseye]

About time. Was on a Rat flight where this piece got on with a bag. took two ringers to lift it, she couldn't, then it didn't fit in the bin. She stood there wacking it to try and fit in. in the end the trolley dolley relocated it down the front. last time on DJ they made the mistake of sending me a survey. main reply are you running a pax or freight flight.

Got on the dash out of Horn Island behind one fat cow who attempted to take 5 bags into the cabin as the second last person to board. They should have left it on the ramp or put on next flight. :=

AN used to have a circular slide for dumping oversized downstairs. Bloody good idea.

[noip]

Wot Keg Said.

[40years]

Dead cut,
TT to you.
If you want to lie back and pretend you're in a bed, pay for it. Go business class.

[bmam7]

dead cut

I'm sorry but I think that is a rather arrogant attitude. Were I to fly BNE/SYD on QF this coming Saturday (for example), I have a choice of Red-e-deal ranging from $146 to $295, FlexiSaver at $329 or Fully Flexible at $595.

In other words I could end up IN THE SAME SEAT in economy for either $146 or $595, It's a no brainer.

To go business class I would have to pay between $699 and $999. A thousand dollars for a flight that lasts a bit more than an hour? Great if you are one of those fortunate enough to have your company pay for it but when you pay for all your travel yourself, not so much fun.

I realise those are QF fares and not JQ and conditions are different but the point I'm trying to make is that even if you purchase a more expensive seat you could still be sitting with someone who has paid a fraction of what you paid.

Plus the subject was cabin baggage. Last time I flew there were just as many dickheads in business who were trying to put their bags, esky, golf clubs and and kitchen sink up there. Or the other favourite, fill up the front luggage bays in economy so the precious darlings don't have to drag their bespoke trolleys all the way down the back. Too bad for those actually allocated row 6.

It's become a very selfish attitude on the part of a lot of people who think their time is too important to wait 10 to 15 minutes at a carousel but instead it's "look at me, look at me - I'm someone indispensable to the running of the country/economy and I just have to get the first cab off the rank"!

[Capn Bloggs]

bmam7 + 1.

I can't believe some of you are suggesting business class if a reclining seat is annoying. People should be more considerate, or lock all the seats upright.

[Jack Ranga]

Kiwithrottlejockey, install those on any aeroplane I'm in command of and I'll have you arrested for interfering with the operation of an aircraft.

Awesome, serve him his warrant at the Epworth after he's picked up his warfarin for the blood clots caused by your seat pitch :D

[Australopithecus]

Back to the matter at hand: It seems that initially at least, the system works. Bag sizes and carry-on limits exist for a reason. The fact is, however, that punitive checked luggage fees encourage some passengers to try to game the system. That behaviour is expected from a small fraction of the public. Attention should be paid to airline policies that promote it.

Eventually airlines will force the hands of the regulators, as they do in most things. Minimum seat width and pitch will likely have to be mandated...to at least the 95th percentile. Perhaps a rebate scheme could be employed for people outside of that standard. Its only fair, after all.

I would like to see 476mm/19" width and 34" pitch for long haul and perhaps 32" for short haul under three hours. 30" maybe if recline mechanisms are locked out*

{*I am a fairly tall bloke, and dislike being assaulted by an insistent recliner. Usually a whispered promise of retributive violence does the trick. Why should it have to come to that? Garrotte just one person and you never hear the end of it.:cool: }

If such standards were universal then fares would drift up slightly to compensate and air travel would again be something to enjoy rather than dread. Or at least tolerate in semi-comfort.

The missing two rows of seats would then instantly increase the available carry-on space to what it was when the aeroplane was designed, magically fixing the problems mentioned above.

[Square Bear]

install those on any aeroplane I'm in command of and I'll have you arrested for interfering with the operation of an aircraft.

OMFG,......................!!

[PPRuNeUser0184]

Good work to the JQ Captain for not taking any sh#t.

As for the seat recline......I am 6'3. If someone is completely inconsiderate and decides that having a few degrees of recline is more important than the person behind them then I just push both my knees as hard as possible into the back of the seat. Usually fixes the problem after 10min or so.

[Ollie Onion]

^^^^ likewise, I am over 6ft and if the person in front reclines and there are people sat either side of me they get knees right in their back. I don't try and do it on purpose but it is just the way it is, I have had a few people abuse me for doing this but I don't really have any other choice, can't just chop my legs off!

[Keg]

Square bear, have you heard of the physical violence these things have inspired in the USA? I'm not having that on my aeroplane. The pax either removes them of they'll be met by the wallopers and arrested.

I back my cabin crew to manage passengers seat recline appropriately during meal services and so on. At other times though, if a passenger wants to recline the seat, they can.

I also acknowledge that if they do, they may end up with the knees of tall people in their backs. :ok: I've no problems with passengers and crew negotiating an acceptable outcome to all concerned.

Ps: I agree with Australopithecus. I'd love to see a national standard of 'not less than'.

[blueloo]

I don't get this 'stop them from reclining' stuff. If an airline offers/sells/markets facilities and the passenger pays for it, then you as a fellow passenger can't deny them a product they have paid for. You can't deny them their seats recline ability. They have paid for it.

Common courtesy is another matter - and I am not promoting slam your seat back and squash the punter behind you. If you are tall, and find it an issue, then perhaps it would be worth investing in extra leg room...either by exit row seating, going to something like seat guru picking your own seat with more room, or fork out the dosh for an upgrade to the pointy end.

[Australopithecus]

Wait a second. Because I am tall I have to pay extra to not be assaulted? How about you treat the seat recline mechanism as something other than a licence to injure the passenger seated behind.

Maybe those people who want to sit in the La-Z-boy section could pay the extra. Or learn to sit up straight like big boys and girls.

[blueloo]

No I said if a tall person finds it an issue perhaps you should look at your options. I didn't say you had to pay extra.

One of your options is to endure the discomfort - this does not require you to pay extra 😬 Most economy passengers take some form of discomfort as a given.

[Ka6crpe]

Bring back the old DC3 where there was plenty of leg room and if your carry on luggage didn't fit under the seat then you had it checked. It seems that as aircraft have become bigger the seat pitch has become smaller.

[Oakape]

So it is not OK for the person in front to put their seat back & cause you discomfort, but it is OK for you to insist that they keep their seat upright & cause them discomfort?

My wife was on a 14 hour SYD - DXB flight a while back & when she went to put her seat back a little in order to try & get some sleep, the 6 foot something guy behind her asked not to recline the seat, as he was finding the leg room a little challenging. She was quite annoyed that he would buy a seat where the leg room was tight for his frame & then cause her discomfort when she was trying to sleep. She had a right to recline her seat & he really had no right to prevent her from doing so. They eventually reached a compromise where she only relined part way. Both ended up uncomfortable for the entire flight.

The point is that it wasn't her problem, it was his. We can both appreciate his difficulty, but frankly, it is up to him to try to get around his height issue as best he can without inconveniencing others.

[Ka6crpe]

"She was quite annoyed that he would buy a seat where the leg room was tight for his frame..."

Maybe when he bought his seat he missed the "legroom option".

I am currently looking for flights SYD - PRG and probably around 27 hours flight-time each way. I can find plenty of timetable options and airfare options, but no-where can I find the leg-room option. Perhaps you can assist?

[ACMS]

If some prick stopped me from reclining my seat he would get a seat back smashed into his knees.

1/ he knew what class his seat was and that it wouldn't be roomy
2/ it's not my fault he is 6'
3/ how dare you take away my small amount of comfort I've PAID FOR.
4/ YOUR SEAT CAN RECLINE AS WELL
5/ If you wanted room you should have stumped up for Business class

Now fark off and stop imposing your tight ass BS on the rest of the world.


ME ME ME

:mad:

[KneeDefender]

Keg wrote Square bear, have you heard of the physical violence these things have inspired in the USA? "the physical violence"?

Here's what the AP reported on September 3 (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/passenger-speaks-out-about-airline-seat-dispute) -The dispute occurred on the final leg of Beach's trip back to his home near Denver. [...]

When the flight attendants came through the cabin to serve beverages, the woman said her seat was broken. That's when Beach told one of them about the Knee Defender. The flight attendant asked him to remove the device, and Beach said he did.

"As soon as I started to move it, she just full force, blasted the seat back, right on the laptop, almost shattered the screen. My laptop came flying onto my lap," he said.

Beach complained, saying that he couldn't work like that, but the flight attendant informed him that the woman had the right to recline. Both passengers were sitting in United's Economy Plus section, which offers 4 more inches of legroom than the rest of coach.

His reply: "You asked me to let her recline a few inches, and she just took 100 percent of it."

That's when Beach's anger boiled over. He said he pushed the woman's seat forward and put the Knee Defender back in. The woman stood up and threw a cup of soda — not water, as previously reported — at him.

"It was really just surreal and shocking. Did that just happen?" Beach recalls. "I said, 'I hope you brought your checkbook because you just threw your Sprite all over my $2,000 laptop.'"

The flight attendant stepped in quickly and moved the woman to another seat.
That was the extent of the "physical" interaction between the passengers: The woman banging her seatback into the man's computer, then the woman throwing her drink at him.

Then the pilot diverted, landing in Chicago.

The Knee Defender product has been on the market for 11+ years, it's been shipped to people on all 7 continents, and that is the sum total of related problems - one incident, a jostled computer, and a thrown drink.

And, the man using the Knee Defender initially did follow the FA's instructions. But subsequently he did react badly, for which he's apologized publicly, repeatedly.

Now, a few days after that incident, an AA flight from Miami to Paris was diverted when a man became upset after someone reclined a seat, banging him in his knees.

Then a few days after that, a Delta flight to Florida was diverted when a woman became upset after a reclining seat smacked her in the head.

And so in those two subsequent incidents and diversions - in which no Knee Defender was involved - that's where there was some real physical violence. To a man's knees and to a woman's head.

I'm not going to try to convince anyone here about who's right/wrong regarding reclining/anti-reclining. I just wanted to offer up some background regarding what happened on 3 recent flights here in the US.

And yeh, I'm the guy who invented the Knee Defender.

[Oxidant]

Any chance we can stay on the "baggage" part of the thread? :*

[Australopithecus]

You malignant dwarfs can opine all you want. I can assure you that in real life you'd be singing a different tune.

And have a look at the irony in the " ME ME ME" line. :p

[Oakape]

but no-where can I find the leg-room option. Perhaps you can assist?

It may not have been an option in the case I mentioned, but plenty of airlines sell exit row seats & the like at a premium, due to the extra legroom.

The point was that some here are complaining that people putting their seat back is causing them discomfort & stating that it shouldn't be allowed. However, they seem to miss the point that by not allowing someone to put their seat back is causing those people discomfort. Do you think you are so much more important than the person in the seat in front of you that your comfort at the expense of theirs is both fair & acceptable?

[grrowler]

Does reclining your seat that 1/2" really make you comfortable? Half the time I see people recline their seat and then lean forward working on their laptops anyway. Don't see the point, let's face it economy seats are crap, even at there most generously reclined.
Back on topic, the reason I make sure I can take everything in the cabin is more to do with the massive bag checkin lines. Yes fair enough enforcing your cabin bag rules, but how about having more than 2 staff checking bags in. As has been posted, for years lcc's have been encouraging people to not check bags, checkin online, etc so they could cut back staff numbers.

[Australopithecus]

This is great. Here we alleged professionals are arguing about relative rights to cause discomfort to our fellow humans. Time for mandated minimum seat pitch standards, as I have previously mentioned.

The last time I was in an exit row the other punters were all much shorter than I. Perhaps the exit row should have a minimum height requirement, like a Disneyland ride? You must be thi-i-i-i-s tall to sit here! Otherwise it is grossly unfair to any beanpole who may turn up, is it not?

What a grotesque world this has become.

[34R]

Some great posts here.........Jesus wept!



The incredibly large amount of carry on luggage has stemmed from the fact that waits of around 30 mins were quite normal at the carousel. I commute and I must admit I try to take it onboard with me now to spare myself the wait at the other end.
However, on the rare occasion I do check a bag in, because most onboard have decided to carry their bag on, ironically there can be very few bags coming out on the carousel and the delay is often minimal.

[YPJT]

A reclining seat on QF domestic is also a pain these days. Have done a few legs on the A330 recently and they fairly pack the business class seats in these days.

[*Lancer*]

Minimum seat pitch would have to be law. Airlines try to cram in as many as possible for the product. The economics justify it, and the economics are a big factor for the passengers too. Good article in last months AA about it.

Seat recline is the passenger in front's personal space, not the one behind. Simple as that.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

Regarding wait times for baggage at the other end....I often fly between Auckland and Wellington, and vice-versa with Air NZ and I have worked out a way to get my checked bag before most other people at the other end.


I wait until the last possible minute to check-in (using the self-check in kiosks) and I've found that my bag usually appears amongst the priorty baggage at the other end. I presume the reason for this occurring is most likely because they close-up the other baggage containers and keep the priority container open until the last minute before loading it into the aircraft hold last, so it will be first off, and that any non-priority last-minute checked-in bags therefore go into that priority baggage container.


It seems to work every time on that Auckland-Wellington route. I disembark from the aeroplane and by the time I get to the baggage conveyor, my bag has just popped out, whereas everybody else (except those with priority baggage) are left waiting for ages for their bags.

[Australopithecus]

...or bad driving, or any other dumb stuff that impacts others:

Imagine that the other person is a dead-eyed bikie with prison tattoos. Tell me again how it's your right to bruise the knees of that guy. No? Not so much? Didn't think so. Approximately 1% of the population are psychopaths. Another 3% are disposed to violence. This is the world which airline managers have created, then asked us to both endure and manage.

Re checked baggage: last time was SYD-JFK. 1:55 for bags to appear on belt. Twenty minutes later it became apparent that many of us were waiting in vain. After another 82 minutes we were out of the airport, sans baggages. But hey! Four days later they arrived no problem!

[Cost Index]

Yep, user pays.

If you buy a seat then you are entitled to use it how you see fit. It complies with all requirements. Seat pitches are designed to conform with the median height of the target market. Go to Japan and see what it's all about.

If you are tall, then that is not other peoples problems. User pays. Pay for extra room. We all pay for extras in our life. Why inflict discomfort on the majority of other peoples liberties by preventing them reclining through intimidation or use of 'illegal' seat clamps? If you're travelling a short distance and can't afford the upgrade, then cop the discomfort. If you're travelling long distances then pay more. Simples.

And what about the vast majority of people these days that genuinely suffer from back-pain at some point in their life? They need to recline somewhat to position their back in a way that relieves some of the pain.

Personally however, majority of times I tend to consider those behind me and 'try' to limit my recline amount and choose not to do it during meal periods. But that's my personal call. It doesn't have to be everyone's.

Also agree with Keg, you are altering the aircraft. Illegal. Full-stop. Cease -and-desist or I'll 'Bring in the Feds.'

[Cost Index]

and further Austra... Using your analogy, being bikies they should have plenty of drug money to afford the seat upgrade, lol :E

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

And what about the vast majority of people these days that genuinely suffer from back-pain at some point in their life? They need to recline somewhat to position their back in a way that relieves some of the pain.




Having a pair of knees jammed hard into your crook back through the seat isn't going to make that pain go away....it is going to cause even more back pain. At least the Knee Defenders are going to prevent those hard knees from digging into your back.

[Australopithecus]

Well then failed, narrow-eyed bikies.:cool: The ones who misplaced their drug money yet retained their injured sense of personal space. Tough room, this. ;).