easyJet DEC Gatwick?

[ETOPS]

I read a rumour on another BB that easyJet were going to recruit direct entry Captains. Found this on their jobs page..

Future Captains Wanted

As the 4th largest airline in Europe, we're growing at real pace and there are no signs of us slowing down. In fact, with our 3 brand new Crew Bases in Amsterdam, Naples and Porto, these are exciting times for us. Even better opportunities for you! We're looking for talented, experienced and ambitious type-rated Captains and
Co-pilots, who have integrity, energy and a genuine
passion for flying, to join us and be part of the next
generation of easyJet pilots.


The rumour further mentioned some recruitment at LGW - fishing for Monarch crews?

[DirectCF]

EZY has always been looking for captains and FOs for positions of "future captains".

-->> right seat waiting for all of them, of course for a length depending on experience.

[pitotheat]

There may be some DEC positions in the new crew bases and perhaps LGW due to training department capacity issues. Monarch are not being targeted though it may be a very fortunate coincidence that whilst M are shedding some pilots easy are looking.

[Burpbot]

DEC on offer at LGW! Fact!

Can't say I'm keen myself, but good luck to everyone else ;)

[mesh]

They are! We received Monarch titled notice advising of positions with email to send CV too. All that needs to be done is see if you pass the ridiculous tests, the CV with why you want to work for them, pass the group hug exercise and move to LGW....the Monarch guys must be falling over themselves to apply:) I wouldn't get too worried about these Monarch Scabs nicking your jobs lads. A few want to get out but I think you are miss reading the situation with us at the moment. If you are a recent Cpt that is about to be put in the RHS then you don't have the LHS time to apply, so that's them out. Then you move up to the next lot of Cpts that have kept their command. Most have been with Monarch over 8 years and the new deal actualy gives them a pay rise so they are going to stay and see what happens. Then you get into the more senior Cpts who are taking a pay cut. However the pay cut is for a PYW contract and most of them were part time. They will either work more or take the hit because they are financially ok by now and they certainly whont move to an airline that will work them into an early grave. Then the rest are 53 plus when the pension makes their minds up for them. These poor buggers need to make big bucks and quick to get the pension up or pay the house off. Easy, Monarch, Jet 2 couldnt help them in a month of Sundays. If they go it will be to the sand pit or China for obvious reasons. To conclude, I recon about 10-20 of the Cpts that hold onto their commands may apply and a fraction may move if given the job so this conspiracy theory that 100's will flock is utter :mad:. If Monarch goes completely down the pan then absolutely, they will apply but at the moment as hard as you may find it to believe if you asked the 8 year Cpt who will move on to circa 93k for part year working if they are applying for Easy they will laugh and go no thanks.....

Ps Having said all of that I personally think they would be mad not to go for it. I have zero faith in us staying around for the future and I believe you should get out and cover all bases. Some of our colleages have a belief it will all be ok and the company will grow......I hope it does for them but I will not be around to see it.....

[ManTfs11]

Mesh - long term job security means many will apply I suspect

[pitotheat]

MESH "The ridiculous tests" as you put it are to weed out those who would not fit in to the company culture. You should remember that DEC is a contentious issue and those coming in should have clear skills and attitudes that will allow them to be credible DEC candidates both for our robust training system and in the eyes of our FO cadre particularly those who feel they have been disadvantaged. Unlike M we operate the Airbus in a much more level manner with our SOPs giving PF much more responsibility, particularly on the ground (obviously still under the ultimate discretion of the Captain). Any DEC will have to accept this SOP, not so easy to do for some characters.
Numerically the numbers required are not that many so we will be very picky. As for your rather confusing post it seems to initially say that there will not be that many interested because of the poor T & Cs then conclude with stating those with the opportunity to move would be mad not to.
In any case best wishes to all at Monarch, I sincerely hope their new strategy will work and they continue to be a worthy competitor.
To those thinking of applying to easyJet in either seat I am sure you will find a warm welcome for you wherever you are based.

[Thadius]

Great to see easyJet respecting experience & looking to diversify its Command intake , that's a breath of fresh air in an industry that has recently always looked for the cheapest options , well done easy management.

I have a couple of friends looking from Monarch to easy at the moment , very keen on looking to a stable company (as stable as you can get in this industry) , with good remuneration & great opportunities throughout Europe . Looks like Manchester's become an option for them too which is great news !


Their point of view is one of taking their future into their own hands rather than letting asset strippers squeeze them dry which I understand.


Once again , good luck to all !

[mesh]

Pitot, please don't put words into my mouth that fit with your own beliefs. Lets go through your points,

"MESH "The ridiculous tests" as you put it are to weed out those who would not fit in to the company culture"

How does steering yourself through a hole in a tube or stating where an NDB beacon is in relation to you let you know how a candidate will fit into company culture?

"You should remember that DEC is a contentious issue and those coming in should have clear skills and attitudes that will allow them to be credible DEC candidates both for our robust training system and in the eyes of our FO cadre particularly those who feel they have been disadvantaged"

I agree they should be credible candidates! Did I say otherwise? Are you saying Monarch captains whon't be? Or are you saying that we don't have a robust training system?

"Unlike M we operate the Airbus in a much more level manner with our SOPs giving PF much more responsibility, particularly on the ground (obviously still under the ultimate discretion of the Captain). Any DEC will have to accept this SOP, not so easy to do for some characters"

So now you are inferring that Monarch pilots that apply will have a problem with letting you taxi or start an engine, is that right? I happen to know that most will love the idea of levelling the amount of all so important taxying and FADEC operation up.

"Numerically the numbers required are not that many so we will be very picky"

And so you should be, did I say differently? Did I say standards should be lowered to let us in?

"As for your rather confusing post it seems to initially say that there will not be that many interested because of the poor T & Cs then conclude with stating those with the opportunity to move would be mad not to"

Don't be confused Pitot, you are right I did say not many will not be interested due to the T's and C's on offer. Poor was your word....all I meant was they certainly aren't any better or by enough to make a shed load of 8 year captains run for Easy. I make reference to "not applying would be mad" in that I don't believe we will be around much longer. To not apply everywhere would be foolish. So just in case of further confusion...some whon't apply because the new package at M is not much different to E, however I think they should just in case we go bust....sorry but can't think of any easier way to put it...pardon the pun.....

" In any case best wishes to all at Monarch, I sincerely hope their new strategy will work and they continue to be a worthy competitor.
To those thinking of applying to easyJet in either seat I am sure you will find a warm welcome for you wherever you are based"

Pitot, I don't know you but I'm sure some do on this forum. I would say though that you come over as an Easy FO that has had a no for some reason on the LHS front. If others get it then you should look at why, have a good look in the mirror and work to be more like them, its not hard. We have heard about some FO's leaving Easy with a bad attitude to come join M...I guess some stayed!

[mesh]

ps, Pitot...only joking on the last bits...good luck at Easy. All joking apart I think I know where I would rather be at the moment :) The guys you get over if any will be a great bunch with a strong work ethic and skills set...our loss your gain, good luck

[CW247]

One has passed these ridiculous tests twice now, only to have applications binned for some other reason two weeks later. What exactly is wrong with my application they won't say. I'm an ICAO English Level 6 speaking born and raised Brit who meets all minimum hour, currency and other application requirements.

I live within 1 hour of 3 of the biggest bases but cannot even get an interview whilst French and Italian ex-colleagues with the same experience and in many cases shoddy training records continue to get invites. EZ recruitment is illogical and a complete time waste for most people. Either that or they discriminate based on a criteria they are unable to share.

[pitotheat]

mesh your assessment of my position in the company could not be more wrong. If my comments came across in any way as a criticism of Monarchs standards then I apologize - I did not intend my comments to be interpreted that way.
Having sat through assessing countless group exercises and interviews I can tell you that it becomes very clear, very quickly if a candidate will be an asset or liability. Remember easyJet has conducted these same exercises for the 15 years I have been in the company with little change to the content but with significant analysis of the results. That equates to thousands of candidates. They are not done in isolation. We close the loop between candidates scores at interview and how they get on in training.
It is regrettable if you have such a low opinion of easyJet, I hope that the colleagues who do join us from M will feedback to you we are not that bad. We are all after the same thing regardless of what logo is on the tail. A safe, secure and rewarding career until retirement.
Anyway I don't wish this to spiral into a personal slagging contest, I am sure if we met over a pint we would have much in common.

[mesh]

Pitot, all understood but I still think this first computer filter is madness with no proven data....beers always good with me..

[Count of Monte Bisto]

Forget the bizarre recruitment hoops at easyJet for a moment - most people stagger through them if they are current airline pilots somewhere else. Monarch is full of high quality pilots and no one is disputing that. This is a dark time for those Monarch pilots - be they Captains for FOs. Quite understandably they may look at easyJet as a possible option to secure their future, as indeed it is. Nonetheless, they will also understand that given the fact easyJet have many hundreds of qualified FOs awaiting their turn at the Command Course, the arrival of DECs will not be welcomed. Nor would they be welcomed at BA, Virgin, Thomson or indeed Monarch either. There is a lot easyJet can get away with in Holland because there is no union presence (yet!) to oppose them. However, BALPA is the main game in town within the UK and I do not believe they will sit idly by and watch their own members be stuffed in such circumstances. Therefore this will turn into an almighty fracas, and it is one of the few occasions at easyJet that I can see a ballot for industrial action being successful, if push came to shove. EasyJet can interview anyone it wants for any job - employing them is something else.

Another thing worth bearing in mind is that last year easyJet offered jobs to numerous pilots and then rescinded those offers in favour of employing 155 hour cadets from Oxford and CTC. They did so without awkwardness or embarrassment and would do so again. Therefore, until you have a letter with a start date in your hand, you have absolutely nothing. This is a hard-nosed world and do not be fooled otherwise.

[Sean Dillon]

However, BALPA is the main game in town within the UK and I do not believe they will sit idly by and watch their own members be stuffed in such circumstances.

Utter tosh - easyJet will do what they please, BALPA can make all the noise it likes, and that's all it will be! As for strike action, believe that when I see it in the UK, it will not be supported by the public - "pickets in Porsches" spring to mind.

easyJet offered jobs to numorous pilots then rescinded these offers in favour of employing 155 hour cadets...

Folk maybe, but for experienced Airbus guys, it's clearly for the desperate only!

[Aluminium shuffler]

EZY is BALPA, but so is MON, so while FOs at EZY might complain to BALPA about direct entry commands, BALPA would also have an obligation to help MON pilots find new jobs. I think you'll find that BALPA will duck the issue completely and say it is a decision for EZY management who they employ and in what position. BALPA is a paper tiger anyway, and has sold out EZY FOs in the past.

As for the selection system, it was always a mess. Let's not pretend that EZY are exceptional. They're generally very good, but they are an extremely arrogant company with just such a culture displayed by a good portion of the crews. Other operators from EZY bases will be quite familiar with the EZY strut, as if they own the airport, and how often they cause go arounds by blocking runways, entering without being ready. That is common, but I hasten to add not uniform - there are still many crew there who do not buy into the whole "orange" claptrap, with a little more self respect than to believe the company propaganda, but the attitude is more widespread there than any other company I have witnessed. Their selection system is just another manifestation of that arrogance.

[olster]

The orange claptrap is indeed claptrap - good operators generally but the company culture runs in a parallel universe to the pilot group - most pilots can see through it though - the 'orange concept ' is a good source of comedy and only the very naive buy into it.

cheers

[Beavis and Butthead]

They're generally very good, but they are an extremely arrogant company with just such a culture displayed by a good portion of the crews. Other operators from EZY bases will be quite familiar with the EZY strut, as if they own the airport, and how often they cause go arounds by blocking runways, entering without being ready. That is common

How very professional of you Aluminium shuffler. What absolute rubbish.

[Aluminium shuffler]

How silly of me to criticise EZY. Everyone who works for them knows full well they're perfect...:ugh: I quite clearly stated that a lot of their people are not subscribers to the managerially instigate company culture of arrogance, but that unfortunately quite a few are. My point is that the culture and management are arrogant, not everyone in the company, and this arrogance is what brings about such overzealous recruitment procedures. Five years of working for them gives me plenty of inside knowledge of the company's manner.

[JosuaNkomo]

With regard to jumping through the hoops. Tough titty if you fail the computerized tests. Who gives a :mad: whether the posters on this forum feel that it is unfair, discriminatory and/or irrelevant. The fact of the matter is -"what it is it is". A low cost company cannot afford the time and money for a comfortable fireside chat with every prospective employee. Followed by detailed feedback if unsuccessful.


If some Monarch people are successful and join as DEC well done, welcome. I am sure the incumbent easy Captains at LGW will appreciate the numbers being bolstered.


CTC/Oxford do all the vetting/hiring for our army of orange cadets. HR just pick up the bat phone and order the required number ( plagiarized from other poster )


It is a numbers game. You want respect get a dog.

[maxed-out]

JosuaNkomo and his sentiments are the reason why the industry is buggered!

[scrotometer]

From what I've seen after over 10 years at EZY there's nothing arrogant about being a line driver or trainer there. Everyone goes to work, gets flogged, gets paid and goes home being grateful to have a job that isn't in danger of going down the tubes like other places.
Regarding blocking runways and the other crap thats exactly what it is. From a flying point of view it's leaps and bounds ahead of many other places and the standards are high. They have to be kept high if others are continually taking a shot at you. training is second to none at EZY.
Arrogance is more abundant in certain long haul legacy carriers I think.
Its not perfect but its a very very safe and professional place to work and will be here for a long time to come.

[WhyByFlier]

Allegedly 60 MON captains are getting DEC at LGW and other UK bases including LTN and MAN. Any truth?

[go around flaps15]

So possibly 60 Monarch captains just walk into the left hand seat at Ezy and skip the queue of able and command ready FOs?

Have I got that right?

[WhyByFlier]

Allegedly yes and jumping command base transfer lists. I'm not saying it's fact, it's what I've been told by people in MON. Is it true?

[Binder]

Flaps...

Some of the Command ready FO's are declining moves to LGW (and AMS)
because they have young families or other commitments and prefer to sit it out at their own base.

So they are not necessarily being bypassed if this was the decision they took having been offered the move.

Harsh but thats's the way it is....

[WhyByFlier]

So keep working down the list, which is very, very, very, very long

[Lawro]

It will add to easyJet's experience levels & great for the industry to see these guys redeployed .

easy does not have a seniority list for this very reason , it has no obligation to promote its FO's as opposed to taking on highly experienced , quality candidates .

Ability is at the heart of easy's philosophy , promotion isn't an attendance course like SFO , it is great to see them sourcing the best quality candidates !:D

[Binder]

And some of the best quality candidates are presently flying the right hand seat.

And making very difficult decisions about their work/life balance.

[Lawro]

Undoubtably there will be some good quality candidates in the right hand seat , equally there are very good quality , proven commanders ready to go without the cost of command courses equally , the pass rate of the EasyJet command course , although very good , will not be 100% .

Those who wanted to pay to get to the front of the queue allowing airlines to take cheaper options for FO's will have to wait a little longer as airlines will hopefully take the cheaper options & allow good quality time served captains to move across into the left hand seat at Easyjet taking advantage of training & time served at other airlines !!

Good on you Easyjet !!

[silverknapper]

Well said Lawro. I'd laugh if I heard an ezy FO dare to complain!

[THRILLSEEKER]

Any DEC recruitment this winter in to EZY will ONLY be based in LGW (UK Contract).

[Thad Jarvis]

Plenty of DECs failing the assessment from what I hear.

[737Jock]

Loads of DEC's have turned out to be not so high-quality as they thought during selection. Bringing some very odd CRM and SOP interpretations to the company. Strangely this never seems to happen with internal command upgrades.

The only reason that easy is taking DEC's is lack of training capacity. As usual they messed up the numbers again. Still 120 command upgrades will take place for next summer.
The word on the street is that all places in Amsterdam have been filled internally.

[WhyByFlier]

What's more, plenty of MON Capts (a huge amount) went through the 'pay to get in front' CTC training scheme - MON were one of the first and largest customers. I've flown with ex MON FOs who made the move to easy when they were let go by MON.

Is it really as many as 60?

[Beavis and Butthead]

Big demand for LHS at EZY this winter. BALPA closely monitoring that no command ready FO's willing and ready to take the vacancies will be disadvantaged. It's also a great opportunity for the Monarch DEC's imo.

[kick the tires]

BALPA newsletter from Friday:

It is therefore becoming more likely that a small number of DECs will be required. We have been assured however that they will be based at LGW, will not jump transfer lists and will be employed on the standard Captain's contract with no variation in terms

[Lawro]

If you read previous Balpa newsletters they state ' DEC's will not be accepted onto UK contracts'.

Don't trust Balpa & their ever growing pile of brown envelopes !

[Enzo999]

WBF,

Quote:/ What's more, plenty of MON Capts (a huge amount) went through the 'pay to get in front' CTC training scheme - MON were one of the first and largest customers. I've flown with ex MON FOs who made the move to easy when they were let go by MON.

What are you talking about?, this statement hardly deserves a reply but I am at a loose end so what the hell.

I know two captains from MON that went to CTC, both are recent upgrades and neither will be applying to Easy as the don't meet the PIC requirements. Every other captain qualified many many many years before CTC were even in existence.

It seems like you are all being extremely disrespectful to these MON captains, somehow trying to suggest the are inferior pilots and their experiences at MON counts for nothing. These guys have a lot to offer any company even EasyJet it will come at Monarchs expense to lose them.

And another point, most people who enter EasyJet do so off the back of paid schemes, excepting lower T&Cs to gain an advantage over everyone else, so you will have to forgive me now if I don't cry in sympathy for you.

And the word inside MON is the number might be 130!!

[WhyByFlier]

Clearly assimilation isn't your strong point. Where did I call MON pilots inferior? There are many, many more than that who trained at CTC - I KNOW THEM!

Easyjet pilots do not accept 'paid for' or lower Ts and Cs - no more than MON pilots have just accepted lower Ts and Cs. A starting salary with EZY is still about 20k a year more than at FLYBE! So what do you think of their pilots?

Whatever happens, I really hope you don't cone here with your feeling towards easyJet FOs. There's only one group with a sense of entitlement here and it isn't EZY FOs.

[maxed-out]

Enzo999,

Well said sir. Ignore WBFs' posts. If you read his other posts, many of which are an act of pure hijacking of the BA threads, he is bitter and twisted about almost everything in every airline.

He went to CTC himself recently and got a RHS at Easy (he claims to have less than 3000 on the Bus) and as such, has contributed to the demise of t's and c's he accuses others of doing. Pot kettle black comes to mind.

Unreal behaviour.

[Marvo]

Lawro - very disingenuous to miss out the last few words on that statement!

"There will be no DEC's accepted on UK contracts - whilst there are suitable SFO's awaiting an upgrade."

Balpa have accepted their are no suitable Fo's awaiting a command course at present and easy plan to recruit less than 10 DEC's from Aer Lingus/Monarch and Wizz. FACT

The brown envelope you refer to is the new easa flight time limitations that the company plan to impose on us - You need to join the union not write rubbish about it on a public forum.

[Lawro]

I am & have been a member of Balpa for 18 years.

They have let me & others down time & time again .

I am a believer in Unions , not associations who do very little for the individuals of this industry , take a good look at what they do for you & demand more !

Some very interesting developments recently with regards to CPDLC & unlike the ATC unions , Balpa are selling us down the river !!

easy are taking in DEC's , that's a good thing but be aware of what the union does to protect you as an individual , what they say they will do & what they actually achieve are two very different things , you have a look back through those very expensive Balpa newsletters !

With regards to EASA FTL's , Balpa have been limp in their dealings with the authorities & there are some big shocks around the corner for UK employees affected by them.

[Marvo]

I'm under no illusion, had it not been for Balpa I'd be paying for my car park, no food, crap uniform (oh wait!). Balpa aren't the be all, end all but you must understand the limitations placed on the unions by the government. Balpa within easyjet is only as strong as its members. Fortunately membership is high and it will be tested before next summer is out.

From the latest newsletter:

Having highlighted the issue to members in the last newsletter, we have since had the opportunity to investigate the issue further with management in an attempt to understand their justification for employing DECs in the UK. We are now satisfied that the Company are making considerable efforts to promote as many First Officers as resources allow but there still appears to be a shortfall in numbers for next year. As an example, although a command course starting in January is full, a course starting in December currently has 6 vacancies and the Company, extraordinarily, are struggling to find suitable or willing internal candidates. It is therefore becoming more likely that a small number of DECs will be required. We have been assured however that they will be based at LGW, will not jump transfer lists and will be employed on the standard Captain's contract with no variation in terms. Notwithstanding the above, if you believe that you may have been overlooked in terms of a place on a command course this Winter/Spring please let us know as soon as possible.

[JosuaNkomo]

WBF


I fly with CTC trained First officers on the line and have done so since 2003 or 2004. I have noticed that in the last 4 or so years the standard of cadet has definitely regressed.


I am no line trainer but have had to grip several for basic things such as un ironed shirts, being unshaven, tardy timekeeping, and generally having an unearned sense of entitlement. Most of the latest CTC graduates are fair weather pilots who are generally no use to man or beast when required to
step up to the mark. But that's what you get when you are taken from zero to hero in less than 200 sanitized hours in benign weather conditions.

[Thad Jarvis]

Limp on EASA FTL? They did a damn sight more than ANY other European Union and are still at it. The only reason EASA got voted through was because the cabin crew unions sold us out by signing up to a false promise that EASA then renaged on.

[Burpbot]

This forum amuses me!

For the vile human being that stated monarch pilots are failing the assessment in droves! Be a bit difficult as no assessments have taken place yet ;)

[No Fly Zone]

From a business and personnel point of view, limited DEC recruiting may be necessary for extremely young or start-up operation. However, as industry history has demonstrated, DECs often do not survive long-term, unless they are also 1) Significant investors and/or 2) Senior makers of flight operations policy - Management Captains.
That poor slog of a DEC joining a rice or sand airline that is in the midst of a mid-life growth crisis will be resented by most other captains, all FOs(*) and may be lucky to stay around long enough to complete his(her) contract. As soon as a few company-owned and barely qualified FOs have the minimum hours, you get a polite thank you (or not) and perhaps a ticket home. Expat DEC's are a necessary business expense for a growing airline and nothing more.
If you hire-on/fly as DEC for a new airline under your own national flag, retention beyond 3-4 years is likely dependent upon you level of stock ownership and your direct contribution to operational policy.
The smart DEC should expect exceptionally good money coupled with Zero love and even negative respect. And again my friends, that is a business and operations perspective, not a pilot's perspective. (I can fly, but yet again, I'm NOT a Big Shiny Jet driver...) In the end, all DEC offers are...:suspect:.

[Three Lions]

So let's get this straight.

One group of "pay to get in front" pilots are upsetting a second "pay to get in front" pilots, by "getting in front" of them. You honestly couldn't make this up.
Which part of the marketing brochure epaulette laden finery covered this part of the career path?

Sounds like the only winner here is the FTO

[737Jock]

I am no line trainer but have had to grip several for basic things such as un ironed shirts, being unshaven, tardy timekeeping, and generally having an unearned sense of entitlement. Most of the latest CTC graduates are fair weather pilots who are generally no use to man or beast when required to
step up to the mark. But that's what you get when you are taken from zero to hero in less than 200 sanitized hours in benign weather conditions.

And you fly for easyJet? Thought not, what a load of utter tosh! Why don't you crawl back in your hole?

[WhyByFlier]

737Jock, he actually does fly for easyJet - here are your clues: what nationality is the president in his name, what airport is he mentioning in his posting history, what other type of flying machine is he mentioning in his posting history and when he uses a word like 'gripping' in that context he most certainly must be an Army boy! That should narrow it down. Previously of the name Robert G Mugabe and others.

Maxed-out, weren't you the silly boy who left easyjet perm on a 3 month notice period with only one month's notice because a couple of years ago you were so sure MON, the charity not a business, were going to see you good? Bet you wish you hadn't burned your bridges old boy. A person who has complained of others bringing up past posting history and paid for his training like others and enquired about p2f!

As for me, let's get it straight, I had an unsecured loan about 7-8 years ago to do a fully sponsored course and entered easyJet on the old original, full, sparkly, wonderful, grandfather rights contracts everywhere I've been in the network. Whether I had or not wouldn't make me any more or less of a pilot bar the short term effect of it weighing on my mind.

As I've said, it's not my choice, pay grade or battle whether DECs are taken. I most certainly haven't belittled, denigrated, abused or questioned MON pilot's or captain's abilities. I 'd have found it very strange if all DECs were from MON however and to the order of 60 or even more laughably 130! Hubris and nemesis again for some MON pilots.

I look forward to flying with those that make the grade - jaxofmarlow et al perhaps.

[Enzo999]

WBF,

I want to make it perfectly clear, I do not feel negatively towards Easy Jet I do not agree with all of their employment practices but have nothing but respect for one of the most successful airlines in the world. In fact if I can afford the accept the job I fully intend on joining you at EZ (and the command list) as do many hundreds of my fellow MON colleagues.

My issue was with you spouting factually incorrect bitter comments about a work force you know nothing about. I have said it once and I will say it again the 130 captains that will be joining from MON will not be CTC cadets, if nothing else they are far too old to have come from CTC.

P.s why did you take out a loan for a fully sponsored course? I might well be very wrong but I don't remember airlines queuing up to pay for flight training 8 years ago.

I really have no interest in getting involved in a pissing contest with you, all I ask is when you say things on a public forum about my friends and colleagues make sure you have your facts correct, remember some of these guys will not only be sat next to you but behind you!

[maxed-out]

WBF said:
"Maxed-out, weren't you the silly boy who left easyjet perm on a 3 month notice period with only one month's notice because a couple of years ago you were so sure MON, the charity not a business, were going to see you good? Bet you wish you hadn't burned your bridges old boy. A person who has complained of others bringing up past posting history and paid for his training like others and enquired about p2f!"

WBF, I now know for a certainty that you are bordering on becoming a huge troll. You obviously don't know anything about anybody on here. I have never flown for Easy or MON. Nor have I done ptf or even posses an A320 TR. I slog it out onTurboprops part-time whilst I keep my other career on the side and have my eye on the corporate sector. I am from a Modular background and I have zero flying dept.

Admittedly, I did once consider doing an A320 Rating and base training and enquired about BMI'S base training/ line schemes. Someone on pprune in the know, kindly steered me in the right direction and convinced me it was a bad move to do this. I listened to them, thankfully.

Nice stab in the dark though to try act all clever!

Let's cut to the chase shall we. You failed the BA selection and spent a huge portion of your time spewing out utter garbage on the BA threads. You went to CTC and borrowed money in the hope that you could leapfrog your way into Easy. Well done sir; you accomplished that.

Now you complain that some (not all) who leapfrogged into the RHS of a jet with you, are going to leap into the LHS ahead of you. Well boo hoo bloody boo hoo. You reap what you sow son!

[jamestkirk]

Sorry if this is somewhere in the thread.

I've been on website. Where do you apply for future captain????

Or have I fallen at the first test

[JosuaNkomo]

737Jock


Your experience of the CTC product of the last 4 or so years obviously differs from mine. Fair enough.


I actually think CTC provides a good course, I am a product of their training both B737 and A320. I stand by my assumption that the mean product is not as good as it was. Perhaps it is a result of the typical cadet being treated as a commodity. That is what you get with pay to fly contracts. Loyalty and pride in the job is not displayed as a rule.


With regard to operating. Yes they can use the automatics, yes they can fly approaches in reasonable weather. Bare minimum experience levels, very limited solo flying and a very prescriptive training combined with little if no life experience mean some CADETs fade badly given a long or an arduous duty. Sometimes to the extent where one is effectively having to think for two.


Back to the DEC thing, I welcome the addition of DEC if the company and the CC agree that it is in the best interest of the company and not to the detriment of our excellent SFO's.

[737Jock]

Any problems I had with FO's (maybe once a year) was with experienced SFO's with 4000hrs+ who did not come through CTC or Oxford. Sure sometimes you need to coach a bit, but that's usually due to uneconomic flying and being overly cautious with descent profiles and/or coaching through visual approaches.
Now I know this and manual thrust is very scary in the easyJet world, but I would put that down to the attitude of certain captains from a certain island, not down to the FO's who are actually eager to maintain their flying skills and willing to learn.

Maybe you overestimate your own skills when you had 200hrs. I'm however sure that you had to be coached and made errors that everybody makes. But as far as I see the cadets are excellent and fly very well indeed and they learn very fast.

As for loyalty and pride, easyJet does not encourage this. Just look at the quality of the uniform they supply and the way they reward loyalty by skipping eligible FO's in favour of DEC's.

Oh and No I didn't come through CTC or Oxford nor am I affiliated to them, so I have absolutely zero interest in promoting their product. I'm sure that MON pilots are excellent operators, but as far as I'm concerned they can join the back of the queue. They would scream murder if MON would employ DEC's as they have a seniority list.

[mesh]

Word heard from Easy high command, 100 dec needed. I believe 135 monarch guys with upcoming interviews, which seems high. I do hear though that some of our trainers, management pilots are leaving for orange climes...I suppose it's for the Easy guys to push Balpa to slow the outsourcing of commands

[Mr Angry from Purley]

The brown envelope you refer to is the new easa flight time limitations that the company plan to impose on us

Not sure its easy that is imposing EASA FTL on you, it's EASA and if not its no EASA AOC and no job.
I'd have thought EASY is without any doubt the best placed major UK AOC in the UK to adopt EASA FTL. I'd be more worried elsewhere :\

[JaxofMarlow]

And it does full circle again. I think it is up to EZY to decide whether DEC are needed or not. They are best placed to decide on the state of readiness of their SFO's and their short/medium term resourcing needs, not the pilots themselves. Protectionism is fine but has to be recognised for what it is. The reality is probably that only a handful of MON captains will actually move and this is hardly going to hurt those in the queue. Every other industry in existence hires from outside when required (it is a very healthy thing to do from a corporate perspective) and if the pitch to prospective employees was " stuff your experience you go to the bottom of the pile" there would never actually be any cross company movement. If EZY need pilots, they recruit. If they don't they won't.

[JosuaNkomo]

737Jock


You may work in a large base where you cannot establish a lasting relationship with Newby's . My colleagues and I establish some sort of rapport with these people and fly with them on a regular basis . Some want to go back to the bigger places.


I just think that these " bad uns " will be lost in the bigger bases. I mean you fly with one :mad: once you tend not to report the fact. I see the :mad: day in and day out . Do you give a :mad: if they are so bad if you fly with them once a year?. NO



You and the company should be happy I am not in LGW because you will reap the wrath of complete compliance with FTL and SOP with no discretion.

[737Jock]

Odd that the bad uns I spoke about were in LGW (some years ago though). As I said I can maybe get to 1 problem a year. But hey please continue to gossip about FO's amongst colleagues and make sure that they will never get a chance to make a first impression.

Lovely base you must be in! Instead of gossiping maybe you should try to improve things.

[ESQU]

Interested to know where Mesh got his 100 DEC from, we have been told 10.

[Superpilot]

I have no idea about what's going on but 120, 100, 80 even 50 sounds like nonsense to me. The MON ads for DECs would be open right now if that was the case.

[DickPilot]

Similarly, 10 would seem too few given the hassle associated with creating a system for recruiting DECs for the first time, unless, it is 10 now with further recruitment anticipated in the future.

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

We've taken DEC before at Easy, just not for a few years in the UK. Again it was a similar situation, chronic shortage of Captains and not enough Sfo's to promote in the time required, combined with another airline shrinking/going under.

[Thad Jarvis]

Think 20 and you'll be closer to reality. There are a few heading for BA longhaul though. They could push that figure up a but.
As WBV said - this isn't a new development. They've been doing it ad-hoc for years. The important bit is ensuring those who are genuinely ready for command get a crack at it.

[go around flaps15]

I couldn't agree more Thad Jarvis.

[highfive]

I've not seen any adverts for DEC Gatwick? Presumably Easy are contacting Monarch directly to see suitability of suitable candidates.

I can't believe some guys on here saying bravo to easy for helping out the monarch captains. Monarch, until recently, was a very safe, long term career. No chance these guys ever thought they would have to stoop so low as to join the LoCo brigade.

Any port in a storm, and a cornered rat is a dangerous beast ;)

[Lawro]

'Monarch was a very safe , long term career ', are you aware of what has been going on ?? Probably one of the most stupid comments I have ever seen on this site !

As regards to 'stooping' so low as to join a loco , I have some very good friends at Monarch who would be very keen on jumping ship to a more secure & apparently long term outfit.

A job with low hours & high pay is going to be a very short lived one in this industry . I have never worked for Easyjet & understand you may have to work hard for them , however , longevity with a choice of European bases , a good share scheme & great company profits sounds like a good option to me.

Once again , hats off to Easyjet management for identifying good quality candidates from the likes of Monarch , good to see experience appreciated in the industry these days !!

[mesh]

Figs from senior pilot Managment at Easy, as always may be total rubbish....

[Count of Monte Bisto]

Most people don't get any problems with First Officers at Gatwick, and the standard is not any different now than it was a few years ago. In my experience, if you treat people with respect, in 99.9% of cases they will respond well. All FOs understandably want to be captains, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that - if they have reached the required standard, there are few companies in the world that can offer the promotion opportunities easyJet can.

However, that is the sideline conversation here. It is absolute nonsense that easyJet 'need' DECs at Gatwick - they do not and there are dozens of perfectly good FOs queuing up to be Captains. As long as there is one qualified and capable FO in easyJet who wants to be a captain at Gatwick then there are no grounds for employing a DEC in his place. What on earth BALPA are doing over this I do not know - very little by the sound of things. No one has an issue with easyJet offering jobs to Monarch guys - but they do have an issue with them taking the commands of current FOs around the Company. The Monarch guys can join as FOs like everyone else at Gatwick and take their turn in the queue. There is a rapid promotion system available and they will be captains again in a couple of years at whatever bases have vacancies at the time. What Monarch pilot would have accepted DECs there? You've guessed it, not a single one. This is nothing to do with Monarch pilots' abilities - they are clearly top people and highly competent at what they do. This is all about leasyJet pilots looking after the interests of their own colleagues, because no one else will. It is absolutely not the responsibility of the easyJet CC to look after Monarch's pilots - their sole job is to look after the pilots in their own company.

[Three Lions]

Count you raise some good points. However the standard career path in ezy CTC Cadet FO Capt in quick time is oft stated as one of the benefits for working for a loco.

It may have passed you by but one of the other "benefits" to working for a loco is that they dont tend to have a seniority system ala some of the better airlines

Im sure taking a big picture view that having an airline where the bulk of the crews have followed a very similar path to greatness, could have inherent weaknesses. Maybe it adds strength to the whole picture having the surprise opportunity to add such a large number of very capable and experienced guys into the left hand seat.

Joinuing an airline with no seniority list, and then griping on a web forum that its not fair that your company hasnt adhered to a non-existent seniority list - does sort of highlight the attitude/behaviour based problems that could occur due having such a fixed career path in such a big airline

Just a thought

[kick the tires]

It may simply be that there aren't enough suitable SFO's for the forthcoming command course's, I know of 2 who have been taken off Decembers course for different reasons.

I flew with a SFO last week and asked when his course was, he said there was a new process whereby he could defer his command course until a vacancy existed at one of his 3 chosen bases. What a great idea that is. saves him having to turn down a course and saves easy from having to replace him at the last moment, or not as the case may be.

Encouraging to see easy are evolving the whole process and how great that I get to fly with this chap a while longer!

[Count of Monte Bisto]

First of all, as John Smith has said, easyJet has a seniority system in all but name for command promotion. I do, however, disagree with his take on the merits of seniority - it has been a protection that has prevented management promoting 'good chaps', their mates, wives' tennis partners or favoured individuals who have have caught their eye by doing naff secondary duties 'a la RAF'. Yes it has stifled movement, but we all know if a company goes under you are tossed into a sea of uncertainty. I am delighted to be something of a lifeboat for Monarch pilots but not at any cost to our own pilots.

We currently have a command list that grows by the day. I fully accept that the Monarch pilots would be a great asset to any company, and I will welcome them with open arms. Nonetheless they should take their place as FOs and join the queue of other top quality pilots already here - every DEC from Monarch is a current easyJet FO who loses his command. Monarch pilots would never, ever have countenanced such a process there and we should not do so here. Our own internally promoted FOs are almost universally top quality pilots and have all gone through a rigorous selection and training system to get their well-earned command.

A parallel has been drawn over the previous takeovers/mergers with Go and GB Airways, where every pilot came across at their original rank. The key difference there, apart from the fact these were effective takeovers were that these companies brought a pile of aircraft with them and no one was disadvantaged in the process. Ultimately the BALPA CC at easyJet need to get stuck into this and do what they were elected to do - represent the interests of easyJet pilots.

[JaxofMarlow]

Same old stuff.
As I have said before and acknowledged by John_Smith…In any normal industry, people made redundant/ forcibly demoted are at liberty to find another job at the same level and make a sideways move. Unfortunately, this ridiculous industry is far from normal.
What is so special about aviation ? A MON captain with 20k hours and 10 years in the left hand seat has to find his place behind an existing EZY FO for no other reason than the EZY pilot has been in EZY longer. Get real. EZY clearly think they do need DEC and that is that.

[Binder]

Four years ago easy put 4 bases under 90 day consultation and sent out redundancy notices to pilots based at EMA.

Although most pilots were 're deployed' I don't think any of those very experienced guys & gals expected to be anywhere but at the bottom of a seniority list, if that should have been the outcome elsewhere.

Having no seniority list has big advantages but....it doesn't cut both ways when the chips are down.

[IcePack]

John Smith. Funny old thing, prior to Monarch getting in the Poo, a few months ago DEC's had been talked about. So what next is often not as thought. Personally I think the seniority system is now out dated and a detriment to the industry. In the 60's within the independents you spent about 11 yrs as an f/o the got made up to captain. & stayed that way moving companies to acquire better T's & C's. Allowed companies to recruit the best available.

[Xulu]

The company can claim that there aren't enough 'command-ready' FO's to fill up their courses. They can convince Balpa of this too and to some extent it's true.

The reality is that there are a large amount of FO's who have the hours, meet the requirements, are perfectly capable but have not been scheduled their 'Assessment flights' for quite a while.

I'm one of them, and know personally many more.

If the company had been better organised, they could have rostered the 'assessment flights' over the last year and we'd be looking at a command this upcoming season instead of it being given to guys from Monarch.

However it's true, technically we're not 'command-ready' - we're stuck treading water until they schedule these flights and we can progress through the process.

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Jaxo....quite happy to "get real" as you put it. Would Monarch get real if the shoe was on the other foot?
The fact is there is more than enough capable FO's at Easy who are capable of taking the commands. The company claims they don't have the capacity to train them, so DEC are the answer!

[CW247]

...A situation brought about due to a massive gap in experience levels (EZs life long love affair with CTC cadets). This is a natural and significant truing up exercise and if any former CTC cadets are affected by it, well that's just plain ironic.

[JaxofMarlow]

Lots of EZY FO whining continues.
Not relevant to speculate what the reaction of other airlines would have been. The point is, and one that no one in orange has answered, why do airline pilots think they are exempt from a practice that introduces experience to EVERY other industry in the world?
EZY have undoubtedly got lots of very capable FO's. Not the point. It is only in relatively recent times that LHS has been available in such a relatively short period of time. It would be foolish to miss out on acquiring a handful of very experienced pilots at the cost of delaying command to a handful of FO's for a relatively short period. You are not going to miss out, just wait a tiny bit longer.
I have never experienced such a bunch of me me me whinging in any of my comparatively wide experiences inside and outside of aviation. The MON captains that will appear in orange are highly experienced. As Enzo999 said earlier in the thread, some will be sitting behind you as well as alongside.

[Three Lions]

Ezy has enjoyed the benefit of droves and droves of new hires funding their own arrival, which has undoubtedly seen pressures on the other operators as a result of this workforce assisted salary induced reduction in staffing cost at the orange loco, The benefits to the company have been discussed ad finitum. The low cost model does depend heavily in paring costs down to an absolute minimum. This is manna nirvana to the accountant. Getting staff to invest in their own salary is quite a clever move if you can find those willing to invest in it.

However from a purely long term operational viewpoint considering diversity as an added stream of safety I guess is this approach of cadet heavy recruitment to such an extent and for such a time period, is also very short sighted. You can only surmise that some unbiased manager in ezy higher echelons has spotted the inherent weakness with the hiring practices.

Monarchs downturn maybe exactly the breath of fresh air that the orange bubble needs. A touch of diversity can inly add strength to the overall operation.

As posted above some of the more impatient "command ready SFOs"(who dont forget as we are all regularly reminded, are there early anyway for a pop at command... Or so the sales pitch goes) so just a short wait longer while the company allows itself to strengthen? Is this not important to all, including the SFOs in question-I can only guess its exactly this scenario of upset and clear feelings of being wronged that gives some, the understanding that ezy is awash with me-me-me merchants.

I have to agree about the outlook of some of the posters on here from within the bubble. Sort of adds weight to the arguement for diversity.

[Thad Jarvis]

Alas you give recruitment management far too much much credit. This has zero to do with demographics or other. It's all about next summer. Nobody has seen the error of their ways. What they have seen is a summer 2015 schedule that they can't crew. Lots of issues coming home to roost here.
Easyjet hate the SFO rank, they believe it costs them too much because a 200hr guy does the same job (that's the opinion of the same team that will hire any DECs)
The job has got harder, the experience level has reduced, the network is bigger, the crewing levels are derived in fantasyland and the command failure rate has increased. What they need is some certainty because the margin for error is perilous. DECs bring more certainty and are quicker to train. They plug gaps that get exposed by an overly cost-centric recruitment policy. They are a quick fix and have been used intermittently for years. They are not the savior of easyJet but they will bring something to the party. Nothing wrong with that - so long as internal candidates get a fair shot too. Yes some of our guys have a misplaced sense of entitlement but for every one of them there are at least 2 conscientious, hard working, potential future a captains waiting patiently for their turn.

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Jaxo I'm not whinning. Just pointing out that if Monarch were recruiting DEC then I'm sure there would be quite a strong voice from the crew there.
Unfortunately I think Thad has hit the nail on the head. It's all about cost. "Have to remain competitive"

[FRying]

I will never stress strongly enough how blissful I feel realising what a great move I made changing jobs and industries. I listen and read most people here. This job has turned into a farce cast by semi-tramps ready to sell any part of their anatomy for a job, exploited but never willing to fight for their own good and conditions. This population of pilots has turned into a hord of scared puppies with no guts.

Forget it...

[Xulu]

All I'm reading is self-entitled whinging Monarch guys calling EZY FO's self-entitled whiners for daring to speak up about DEC's.

If it was the other way around, you most certainly would be asking questions as well.

Hasn't a significant portion of Monarch recruitment over the years also been from CTC? Yet somehow we are supposed to be grateful for your incredible experience which I'm guessing is remarkably similar to that currently in easyJet.

Over a career, a year delay on command won't make a huge difference to those affected - Although 40 years of compound interest may prove significant. My point earlier was that this should have been avoided by better forward planning.

If we need the bums on seats to cover next summer then fair enough. However it's arrogant to suggest any other reason for the opportunity presented.

[JaxofMarlow]

Xulu

Hasn't a significant portion of Monarch recruitment over the years also been from CTC? Yet somehow we are supposed to be grateful for your incredible experience which I'm guessing is remarkably similar to that currently in easyJet.

Answer. No.

And this thread relates to captains. Only two, and relatively recently, that I know of. Most were captains before CTC existed.

[siftydog]

TJ is right.

[RHINO]

Monarch peeps are already reeling from the news of some who are leaving for DEC at EJ. :sad:

[JaxofMarlow]

Because John_Smith total reliance on intra company seniority is stupid and has disappeared in the rest of the world of industry some time ago. To expect a senior captain to slot in at the bottom of a seniority list of expectant first officers is a ridiculous expectation. And by the way, "loads" of monarch captains is an exaggeration. It will be a handful. The numbers quoted earlier in this thread were there to wind up some participants.
This whole issue needs to be put into perspective. Inter company movement of pilots is healthy for both airlines and pilots. To effectively eliminate it except in the event of company failure is bonkers and not in the best interests of anyone. What you are saying is effectively you are stuck with the company you join after CTC for ever unless you are prepared to go to the bottom and start again. Does not happen anywhere else and it is madness that the concept still exists in airlines. Seniority lists have been sold to you as a great idea by the airlines at this juncture because it suits them at the moment to drive down costs. If there was free competition (like the rest of the business world) then maybe we would not be seeing such an erosion.

[JosuaNkomo]

What you are saying is effectively you are stuck with the company you join after CTC for ever unless you are prepared to go to the bottom and start again

MPL....

[Coffin Corner]

JaxofMarlow your argument doesn't really hold water I'm afraid. The point is there ARE seniority lists within the airline industry and whilst everything is governed by these lists such as leave/promotions/base moves/days off etc then you are always going to have opposition, and quite right too. If I was command ready in lets say LGW and the company recruits a DEC instead of promoting me then I'd be spitting and so would you. You put forward some valid points but until these lists are removed industry wide you can want it as much as you like but this sort of argument will never go away.
You also haven't given any substance behind your notion that it's "bonkers to eliminate movement and it's in the best interests of companies and pilots". I can only see that it's in the best interest of the company short term as it saves costs, but also in that short term you'll have a number of p****d off pilots who have been stepped over (not healthy for the company) it's in the best interest of ONLY the DEC. So please tell me/us how it's healthy for the company and healthy for pilots in general.

[Enzo999]

Why don't all the command ready FOs get together and offer to accept a lower salary in exchange for command. Maybe 68k a year would be fair, I bet Easy would soon find the capacity to train you then.

[Binder]

Lex

1) Insufficient training capacity.

2) SFO's offered Commands at OPO/AMS on inferior contracts not prepared to go.

3) Euro based SFO's not prepared to go to LGW and live away from Family as
Commuters on what almost amounts to a pay cut.

4) Northern based SFO's baulking at moving down South for similar reasons.

5) A smattering of course failures.

[JaxofMarlow]

So the majority of argument in favour of Seniority lists for command is because "it is the way it is". Notwithstanding that every other industry has a blended approach thus benefiting from free movement of resource from other companies as well as promoting talent from within.
There is regular reference to "my LHS". It is not your left hand seat until someone has granted it to you. The attitude that because you have paid for your CTC entry into one of the few growing airlines you have an automatic right to promotion once you have completed a few thousand hours is clearly incompatible with a healthy industry.
My issue is with Seniority lists for promotion being the only route to command. The behaviours it engenders are divisive and are clearly visible in many posts here. Acceptance of a blended approach would be healthy for all. It is everywhere else outside of aviation. Blind acceptance of this in the face of the overwhelming evidence from every industry outside of aviation is the root of the problem. Most telling is a comment above…..It's ridiculous, but that's the way it is in aviation. Until we get rid of seniority as a concept (and I would vote for that tomorrow) the expectation is, and has always been, that a senior captain leaving one airline will slot in at the bottom of the seniority list. For those that think that this archaic process is anything but ridiculous then I give up and there is no hope for this industry.

[stiglet]

LEX ...... come on lad keep up. ;)

[stiglet]

Command ready does not mean that they will pass the course, merely that they have the minimum hours and licence requirement and have gone though the preliminary stages. There is, I believe a significant failure rate; hence the perception that taking in DEC will reduce the training capacity needed to get commanders online before next summer.

I can see the argument from both sides. If there is controlled recruitment of DEC it could be beneficial: provided they have to reach the same standards and it is not assumed that because they are already Monarch captains they are somehow better, and they are not given preference to base above easy FO's. A limited number of experienced DEC could help the experience inbalance but too many will allienate the existing workforce.

For those who do come I trust you will quickly embrace the orange culture and understand and accept the views of those FO's who perceive you have jumped the queue and taken their place; if so I am sure you will be welcomed with open arms.

[qwertyuiop]

I heard the "orange culture" mentioned many times.
What is it?
Is it fun?

[stiglet]

Now do you want me to spout the company line, or ...

opportunity, equality, fairness, openess, working together

what would you like it to be?

[qwertyuiop]

Stiglet,
Try explaining it in straightforward pilot, non bull:mad: speak.

[NigelOnDraft]

I am sure it would be both cheaper and quicker to recruit from within as opposed to from outside. A DEC course will be approx. the same time as a RHS to LHS (1 might need a bit more "Easy SOPs" work, the other command stuff).

But the RHS-LHS also involves training a replacement P2, which if low hour is a long process.

Not saying it is right, but that would be the bean counters view - 1 recruitment, 1 course not 2.

[ZeBedie]

opportunity, equality, fairness, openess, working together

For easy F/O's:

Opportunity - denied

Equality - maybe not?

Fairness - doesn't sound like it.

Openness - No one seems to know what's going on

Working together - with DEC's!

[RHINO]

Come on Zebedie....spit it out man!

[ZeBedie]

I don't know what you mean, dear boy.

[james brown]

The sense of indignation and entitlement is amazing. Easyjet is not a seniority airline. Never has been. Why should a FO who has only ever flown one type with one airline who has just turned 3000 hrs expect to suddenly switch seats. If there are better qualified, more experienced applicants then it is both safer and economical for the company to employ them.

You reap what you sow. Those that felt they could buy a job then expect the rest of the career path at Easyjet to be smooth will now see the error of their ways. As predicted by many on this forum. Let's wait until CTC start selling the left seat next.........

[Binder]

James,

You may have a point but the issue concerns SFO's who have already been deemed suitable for command.They have had to jump through many hoops.

Easy needs to promote them to keep the CTC pyramid/income generator ticking over...but with training resources stretched they have a small problem...and gaps at Gatters because of the aforementioned reasons.

So the opportunity to grab some trainers from MON is there...especially if they have Squadron acquaintances!

As for experience...to the bean counters we are just cost units and if they could replace us with robots then they would do just that.

[EGKK.]

hi guys

could someone please show me a typical roster for an easy jet captain based at LGW?

also, how often are night stops and where are they?

man thanks : )

[NorthCountryBoy76]

The standard pattern is 5 lates 4 off; 5 earlies 3 off.

Lots of 4 sector days and a few 5 sectors.

Nightstops are BCN/MAD/CPH/AMS/INV (1 early and 1 late crew), AMS possibly stopping as the base opens.

[so far so good]

Hi everyone,
How much will it be in your pocket monthly as DEC ( after taxes)?

[kick the tires]

It depends how much you pay into your pension fund, SAYE, BAYE, how many sectors you fly v's leave, what your bonus is (loyalty and performance).

Take 10 seconds out and do a search on google and you will get the gross figures, the rest is on HMRC site.

[Paolo]

so far so good...

It does depend on what you put away into share plans and pension. I am 10 plus year capt and take home around £4500. With that, I put 23% of my salary into the pension to add into what the company puts in (making a total around £2300 per month) and subscribe to the share plans (£500 per month) The takehome includes sector pay, so in summer it may go up a little. Every October, loyalty pay kicks in and I get 15%of my basic salary (£96600) in one fat lump sum, which swells the Oct paycheck to £11000.

Hope this helps.

[tupungato]

Thank you Paolo for pretty detailed info! :ok: