Cars on a 767F/A300F

[steelbranch]

Hi,

I'm working in logistics for a humanitarian agency in South Sudan. I will shortly be buying cars for our projects here - Toyota Land Cruiser 70 series Hardtops.

Juba can't accommodate a 747 or MD-11 owing to its short runway. A300s fly in here regularly, as do 767s.

Has anybody got experience of transporting vehicles on the main deck of a 767 or A300? I'm trying to work out how many I could fit onto one of those types, and plan accordingly.

I put 15 on a 747-400F earlier this year into CAR, seven down each side and one in the nose. Wondering if the 767 will accommodate two vehicles in its cross section.

Here is a link to the vehicle dimensions:

Land Cruiser Hardtop STD 10-seater (HZJ76L/R-RKMRS) (http://toyota-gib.com/English/VariantDetails.aspx?ID=2008431&NTD=20)

Many thanks for any feedback you might have.

[deltahotel]

Try DHL - we move cars on our 763s. Shooting from the hip I doubt they'd go side by side but in an idle moment over the Atlantic tonight I'll see if i can work it out!

[KBPsen]

An A300 takes 88"x125" pallets side by side on the main deck, so width wise there is space for two cars. I think the problem might one of height, i.e. fitting two square cars into a round main deck.

You'll have the same problem on a 767.

[Flightmech]

Because its a Land Cruiser contour will be an issue. You will almost certainly have to centre load if your chosen operators procedures allow it.

[Kim Jong Il]

Height won't be a problem for A300. We have moved armoured landcruisers side by side on the bus. I would say you can fit 10-12 on the maindeck. Only thing I am not sure about (height wise) if you can fit 2 side by side near the bulk. Depending on the contract, pm

[16down2togo]

2400m is quite okay for 747s as long as the turn pads and the runway
carry the weight.
Of course it's depending of the flight duration!

[steelbranch]

Good stuff guys, thank you. If some of you have experience of these cars side by side on a 767/A300, that gives me something to work off.

Vehicle height is 195.5 cm, in an area with max height of 250cm, so fair points from the guys who mentioned the curvature, but it sounds like it can be done.

I need to fit 10-12 to make it financially viable. Bulkhead areas could be used for relief/medical items, I'd hope, plus belly space.

JUB ramp/parking is like a gravel car park, frequent high-speed stones breaking windshields and damaging control surfaces from prop/jet blast, wing scrapes, etc. I'm told 747s do not land here at all, too heavy.

Now the challenge is to find an operator who will fly into JUB from Europe.

[deltahotel]

What's the PCN? It's a measure of the load carrying capability of the surface and may give a very quick answer to whether it can be done.

[steelbranch]

Can you tell me what PCN is?

[deltahotel]

Pavement Classification Number - it's a numerical measure of the load carrying capability of the surfaces. It looks at (among other things) the surface itself and the subsurface structure. It is compared with the Aircraft Number (ACN) which is a measure (in simple terms) of the load through each wheel. PCN needs to be greater than ACN ie surface needs to be stronger than the load.

A quick search via a well known search engine does not come up with a PCN - in some idle hours I'll see if I can come up with more info.

[dusk2dawn]

will direct you to the Sudan AIP wich still lists JUB / HSSJ: http://scaa-ais.sd/pdf/AD/HSSJ2-3.pdf with the magic numbers 32/F/D/Z/T.

[deltahotel]

Blimey - nice one thanks. Will look at that later.

Ta

[Just a spotter]

As a suggestion (from an non air freight bod) If the vehicles are on pallets (adding height) you could take the wheels off them, rest them on flat rubber blocks/mats and secure the 'Cruisers to the pallets as a way to reduce the overall hight.

Just be sure to leave enough ground clearance to get a jack under them again to refit the wheels (and don't forget to pack the wheels and jacks whit them on the 'plane!)

JAS

[deltahotel]

32/F/D/Z/T means a PCN of 32 based on:

Flexible (asphalt) top surface.
Very weak subgrade.
Tyre pressure category very low - limited to 73 psi
Info derived from technical evaluation.

So not suitable for a 763. On this surface 32 would give no usable payload/fuel on arrival and the tyre pressure thing alone would be a stopper. I can't answer for A300 or 762 but I'd guess that JUB wasn't built with this size ac in mind - haven't even started to look at TO/Ldg performance. Most suitable freighter would be something like a C130! All that said, I'm intrigued that you say that A300 and 767s operate there regularly.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.

[MisterFred]

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on freight or Juba. But if you need a big cargo plane that can handle poor facilities going from Europe to Africa, you could probably charter an Antonov from any of a number of companies.

[steelbranch]

Deltahotel,

Now that is interesting, thanks for this analysis. All that makes sense to me. IL-76 is the largest I've seen, and a lot of C-130s as well.

ET have a regular 767 cargo flight, and an Egyptian cargo outfit regularly send an A300-B4 in.

Someone said this is possible with A300 or 762. Can you pm me with your company details, would be good if we could get a quote for the job.

d2d - thanks for the Sudan aip which helped out with this.

[deltahotel]

No worries - hope it helps.

Good luck

[CargoMatatu]

I think you may find ET's freighter flight is a 757.

Their Freighter fleet consists of B777-200F, MD-11F, B757-200F & B737-400SF.

MD-11Fs on their way to retirement.

[trancada]

Try EUROATLANTIC , they have a B767-300F.

[SU-GCM]

Steelbranch,
you have a PM
We fly A300s from EU to JUB

[mutt]

Assuming that you are working for a NGO, wouldn't it make more sense to purchase the trucks in Jeddah or Dubai and reduce the cost of shipping? If this is the case, you can find loads of Il-76 cargo companies in the area.

[LMLMLM]

"Try EUROATLANTIC , they have a B767-300F."...no they dont Trancada, DHL have bought it :)

....and the A306 will fit 96"x 125" pallets side by side.

[MrIkea]

"Try EUROATLANTIC , they have a B767-300F."...no they dont Trancada, DHL have bought it

?? IF that's the case , EU or US use ?