Jubilee Flypast

[PCMM]

Looks mighty impressive...

Why no Harriers?

[high spirits]

Press wind-up to get some comment or genuine?

[bootscooter]

How many engines does a Harrier have?

[PCMM]

About the same as a hawk, i fink...

[PCMM]

OK, I know they're going to do the Portsmouth fly-past, but is that really the reason?

The Reds'll be there at 1500' and the BBMF Spits only have one engine

Just seems like a wasted opportunity, and the RN could have got involved...



On second thoughts, maybe that's why!

[MarkD]

Wot? Get the FAA involved, roll out the FA2's and get public sympathy for the type?

Don't think the Airships et al would appreciate that - probably would prefer to put the Spit [Seafire] on CAP than FA2... bah.

[BLW Skylark 4]

If its not hush hush, can anyone please tell me when, where & approx timings for this flypast please.

Yes I know I could have a look at the NOTAMS, but it wouldnt help me to decide whether to go fly out west or to stay in London and gawp.

Thanks,

[PCMM]

http://www.airshows.org.uk/2002/jubilee.html

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/visitors/top_review.html?in_review_id=597201&in_review_text_id=566129

[Superpilot]

Anybody know the route to be taken? is it direct or covering East to West London? and is Concorde really going to fly by at 1,500ft ? or is this just plain old media hype?

[Bright-Ling]

They will all be at 1500ft - concorde will land off the flypast.

They went out playing over the North sea yesterday (conc and the reds and the rest of the gang). There was a TRA set up.

The single engine bit is prob the reason for no Harrs.......but RAFAT single enginess NEVER break down....do they?!?

Bit of shame it is not a bigger flypast.

[Smoketoomuch]

SuperP;

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/news.html
Take off from Stansted at 1709 on Tuesday 4 June.
1715 - Heading of 062 to the south of Bury St Edmunds
1722 - Heading of 062 to the south of Great Yarmouth and join the holding pattern off the Norfolk coast, where they will formate on Concorde
1733 - Depart the hold on a south-westerly heading.
1737 - Overhead Southwold
1742 - Overhead Ipswich
1749 - Overhead northern edge of Chelmsford
1752 - Overhead Fairlop Waters Country Park, north east of Ilford
1755 - Fly down the Mall then over Buckingham Palace

After the overflight of Buckingham Palace, the Team will return to Scampton, passing near to Hertford, St Neots, Thurlby, Corby Glen and Grantham before landing back at base at 1817.

[DamienB]

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/flypast.jpg

[working boy]

Why no Workules - could at least have put a shiny new 'J' model in the line. All too busy working, I guess, and not flasshy or pretty enough. Pity really, since they've been around longer than everything but the Camberra.

[Specaircrew]

Because they can't fly fast enough to keep up with the rest of the formation!

[BEagle]

Ho hum - how really whoopy-doo. Is this pathetic token gesture all we can really scrape together these days?

In 1953, the Coronation Review of the RAF included a flypast at Odiham of some 641 aircraft in 49 separate formations. After 15 out of an anticipated 20 practices, it started with a Sycamore helicopter at 75 kts and concluded 27 minutes later with a Swift at 500 kts in full afterburner - which then suffered an engine failure but deadsticked safely back at Chilbolton! The flypast aircraft flew from some 40 UK aerodromes......and a further 318 aircraft were on static display. The cost of a public ticket? A massive 1/6! That's one shilling and sixpence or 7.5p to younger readers!

Forgive me if I sound unimpressed at the scale of the display which is all we can apparently manage to commemorate our Queen's Golden Jubilee - it's because I am!


..and no, I DON'T remember the 1953 flypast!!

[Groundgripper]

I do, Beags! Saw it twice in fact!

I watched it on telly at my aunt's house (cos she was the only one in the family who had a TV!) in Golders Green, then dashed outside as all sorts of aircraft came roaring overhead........brilliant, best bit of the whole day!!

[Busta]

Shame they couldn't have scraped together 50 aeroplanes for the Golden Jumbilee.

Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.

[BEagle]

50 serviceable RAF aircraft at the same time on the same day?

Pull the other one mate!

[HectorusRex]

Sorry BEagle, you beat me to it!
However I do remember it as I was on parade at Odiham, and what a superb display it was.
HectorusRex :D

[mr ripley]

Details of the flypast can be found on the RAF Website (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/jubfly.html)

Coronation Day 2 Jun 53 had 144 Meteors and 24 RCAF Sabres flypast the palace.

Coronation Review had 641 aircraft overfly Odiham

Jubilee Day had 25 aircraft, Vulcan, Victors, Lightnings, Harriers and a Nimrod I think overfly the palace.

Silver Jubilee Review 29 Jul 77 had 137 aircraft overfly Finningley

Golden Jubilee 4 Jun 02 will have 27 aircraft overfly the palace.

Golden Jubilee Review 27 Jun 02 will have a flypast of 50 aircraft pm, but will start with 27 Tucs, then involve a dynamic display with at least 15 other aircraft.

Considering the size of the RAF and the operations we are involved in and supporting, I think we have done well to provide this many.

mr ripley

[BEagle]

Have to disagree with you, mr ripley - it just rubs it in to everyone that, thanks to the wretched politicians, our pathetically small RAF has been reduced from a once mighty force to a pale shadow of its former self.

27 Tucanos, eh. Can hardly wait....

[Chairborne 09.00hrs]

As much as it is arrogant to seem to even slightly disagree with Beagle on this site, I still think we are lucky to see what is on offer for the Jubilee.

I seem to recall from a piece over a year ago in Navy News that HM did not wish any great public expense to be spent on commemorations of the Jubilee. The Flypast we have now surely meets HM's qualification.

Please note that a Fleet Review is significantly absent from the programme of events..........

[goldcup]

No wonder. The logistics of getting some boats to sail down the Mall are mind boggling. Think of all the water you'd need to flood it. And that's without any submarines being involved....

[Talking Radalt]

...and why no rotary AT ALL?
This fly past is billed as representing the "operational" RAF of today. So why Eurofighter? And yes I know any helo will struggle to match an F3 or VC10 for speed but it can't be THAT hard to do the maths surely?
Whoever got promoted out of this, well done, I feel thoroughly unrepresented.
:(

(and reference the above message, do we have any working subs left?)

[BEagle]

Talking Radalt - they manged to do the sums in 1953 when the flypast started with a Sycamore which pottered along at 75kts! And at several Yeovilton Air Shows when we had a real FAA!!

[Bright-Ling]

Actually there WILL be a Helicopter flying the route in very lose formation.

So lose in fact, that it will be a few hours ahead and calling itself Winsdor Weather Check (Northolt T/S)

ALSO, there will be another Twin Squirrel overhead St Pancras Station at 2000 ft c/s Windsor Photo.

So........the rotary world is represented.....sort of!!

Look out for the Hawk Whip aircraft over Essex.......maybe it will have a SWO in the back shouting "Right Dress / Forward.....STEADY!!!"

Probably still be with them over Brize!!!!!

On a serious note, it is a shame that more isn't done.......what a great global PR opportunity for the RAF wasted.

[Chairborne 09.00hrs]

Talking, Bright: there will be a R/W flypast - except you'll have to go to Pompey in about three week's time to see it!

[Talking Radalt]

...in three weeks time we'll probably all be in the Desert Formerly Known as India/Pakistan:(

[jstew15]

Is the flypast going to covered on TV and at what time?

JS

[Talking Radalt]

In the commercial break betweeen Corrie and Who Wants to be a Millionaire probably. :p

Think it might be live on Beeb1 at 18:55

[difar69]

It is no surprise to anybody who has been involved on Ops over the last few years that the flypast will be a shadow of those staged in the past. The RAF is overstretched. That is no secret. My fleet is struggling with a serious shortage of airframe hours at the moment due to ongoing Operational committments. There is no way the service could stage anything bigger. It's a shame, but it is the hand our politicians have dealt us. You want more, give us more.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[mr ripley]

You can not claim overstretch then try and emulate an event from a previous era.

The Portsmouth flypast will be representative (-Herc and Canberra).

I think the size and spread of this formation is appropriate in light of our operational committments.

mr ripley

BTW it is on BBC/ITV/Sky at 1755 local.

[difar69]

Mr Ripley. I think that was my point. The flypast we will have is one suitable in the present climate. My response was to those who seem to think we should be seeking to re-create those of past jubilees, which is out of the question. That said, it doesn't make it right.

[Reheat On]

Am I right in thinking that the largest fly by was the RAFs own Golden Joob Abingdon bash in '68 - can any one point to a resource for that?

I seem to recall an F4 jock got into trouble on the rehearsal day for loosing his concentration on the display line, and going past M1.0 in a shallow approach dive, resulting in aheap of houses losing their rooves on the apporach end of 26. There was muttering about ATC having asked the guy if he had visual on a C130 in the circuit - so he looked out of the window while maintaining -3 degrees and full chat .

Lots of A/C Jones' seen with 3 tonners and large tarps a little later. I heard it cost the Staish lots of cases of wine to settle the natives. HM was there the next day.

Can anyone tell me I am wrong, or is the memory still firing on all 12 :)

[Flatus Veteranus]

I was in both the '53 coronation review (Odiham) flypast in a 25 Gp Meteor IV, and in the '68 (Abingdon) flypast (for the RAF's 50th anniversary) in a Vulcan B2. The former was by far the largest flypast and, IMHO, much the better organised (by HQ 11 Gp).

In 1968 the weather in the forming-up area for the Vs - a "trombone" between Wittering (who were leading) and the Humber estuary -was solid clag from 500ft to 15,000ft, but OK over Abingdon. The V's were allocated altitudes between 1500ft and 2500ft (if I recall ). I was leading the Waddo contingent and had great difficulty persuading anyone to make a decision on a join-up altitude. I Gp Ops thought the whole show was Strike's responsibility, until I showed the Staish the Op Order where it said that forming up the Vs was HQ 1 Gp's job, and told him that all we needed was for someone to shift the datum to FL150 and we could do a good, old-fashioned, "snake" climb (à la Meteors in the '50s) under Midland until we were in the clear. And that is what we did and it worked perfectly. But the captains were left wondering what the hell was going on until crew-coach time. After that, I would believe anything of the "bomber" culture! Which was driven by everyone covering their own 6 o'clock.:(

[BEagle]

So that was F/O FV from 205 AFS flying RA456 in the 'box' of the leading Flying Training Command Meteor formation, I guess? Funnily enough the chap flying box in the right hand 4-ship, Joe L'Estrange, also flew many a Vulcan flypast in later years - and I think he was also in the Silver Jubilee Vulcan formation flypast at Finningley!

[Flatus Veteranus]

Joe L'Estrange? The very best, as you know BEagle. He even managed to teach me to fly the Vulcan at Finnigilly!

[Superpilot]

What frequency will the team be in tune with when over London?

[BEagle]

Somewhere between 118 and 400 probably - i.e. on the aeronautical VHF or UHF bands.

Once when I was doing a small RAF airshow commentary, I put Les Girls' air-to-air chat out over the PA. It was so utterly cringeworthy and embarrassing that we cut it after half a minute....

[Stan Sted]

Flypast now delayed for at least half an hour due to procession overrunning.

All spectators in Suffolk, Essex and Greater London stand down.

ETA for Buck House is now 18.25

[Just an other number]

Thanks Stan
It's now 1 am in the laundromat, watching on BBC website (not great pictures) and I thought something nasty had happened.
Will now stay up till 1:30 ish
Cheers

[VP8]

Just seen it on the BEEB good show lads Concorde and the Reds at the end EXCELLENT when Concorde did the climb out of formation.

Take a well deserved pat on the back!!

Nearly made me want to rejoin!!

VEEPS

;)

[Banggearo]

Fantastic Guys!! Just watched it on BBC America, made me realise what it is to be British, wish I could be at home right now but will have to make do with reminding my work colleagues just how much better we are at this sort of thing.

Once again congrats to all involved in flypast really has made my day (especially 99 Sqn).

BG

[Stan Sted]

Saw the flypast live then rushed in and watched it on TV. Great stuff and some superb views from the TV copter.

Congratulations to all involved.

[high spirits]

Great flypast - congrats

[Man-on-the-fence]

As of 5 mins ago, the remnants of the flypast flew over my house (southern end of RAF Abingdon runway) heading towards Brize.

The whole street was out watching :D :D :D

BLOODY MARVELOUS :cool:

Thanks chaps made my whole day.

[jackmilehigh]

Excellent Fly past, perfectly reorganised around the delays.

Its a shame the Battle of Britian Memorial Flight didnt take part. It would have look great and the public would have loved it.

Brilliant show and excellent flying through.

[MrBernoulli]

Flypast looked rather 'thin' to me. Yeah, yeah, I know thats been covered to death on this thread but having watched it there was no doubting how 'threadbare' it was!

[Beeayeate]

Great fly-by guys, really chuff-making even if it was short-handed [pity about the Harrier mates].

Wonderful to see the two PR.9s formating with the Mighty Hunter - they still look sleek and business like [and 3 years after their own 50th Anniv].

And the Reds and Concorde . . . no following that.

When/where can we see the film of the event from the Canberras?

[Guern]

Well done to all who took part looked fantastic on the telly even if they missed the 125's!

[BEagle]

Specaircrew - I reckon that you got a whole 4.6 seconds on TV! Which was 4.6 sec more than the 125s did!

The Canberra 'fighter bombers' (as Dimblebore called them) did indeed look the part. As they did during the Silver Jubilee flypast at Finningley - and as other Canberras no doubt did at the Coronation Review at Odiham!

[brockenspectre]

CONGRATULATIONS to all involved!! I was, alas (due to dog injuring paw) at home and only able to watch on TV so very much look forward to the air-to-air-within-formation shots and then some footage from underneath in the Mall - the BBC footage was clearly shot some way out and had the noise cut out dammit!

Just wish I had been there - there is something about airborne engines that just works for me!!

:D

[Axel-Flo]

Great tug on the heart strings watching the C 17 running in and the military bands music? most apt. However, I doubt that even with 99's input and the Typhoon I doubt it dented the average age and number of flying hours amassed by our stalwart work horses.....after today their airships will most likley re-life the fleets for another 15 years.....:rolleyes:

[Kiting for Boys]

Splendid couple of days.
Did you see TB trying to smile when Lenny H made his observations about transport policy in the 50s?

And where's your Dome now?


But you're all wrong about a lack of rotary or RN involvement.

Didn't you notice the 10 inch plastic RN Helo on a stick
behind the mock-up submarine on the back of the recruiting lorry?

rotating in the wind - just like the real thing

[Flatus Veteranus]

It would have been super to have one complete squadron (boxes in Vic) of fast jets, but the total duration of the flypast was ideal. Balbo after balbo of identical aircraft thundering by would probably have bored the punters. That sort of thing is best left to a review flypast (if we have the numbers!). Within its constraints the concept was ideal and the execution immaculate. Congrats to all involved - including the poor bloody staff officers who planned it.

(PS I wonder what was the plan if a se aircraft had a flame-out over the Mall? - the river?)

[BEagle]

The '633 Sqn' musical score was indeed excellent - although I wondered whether the Zurich Insurance pig-vic was inbound....

Probably more chance of them than of 3 TypHoons.....

[fobotcso]

It wasn't, after all, an Airshow but an immaculate end to a fantastic four days' celebration of The Monarch's Golden Jubilee.

Overall, the whole show was a Masterpiece of planning and to make it so inclusive of races and ages was a stroke of genius to help the Monarchy continue.

I couldn't actually see very well for a few minutes after it ended...

[Specaircrew]

Only 4.6 secs! Hopefully the 2 Sky TV cameras that were in the cockpit will show a bit more tonight, mind you it was a difficult not being able to use the 'F' word especially when Neatishead vectored us to 5 miles in front of the formation on a reciprocal heading during the join!!!!

[Jackonicko]

Mrs Nicko was fairly impressed by the tight formation by the two lads hanging off the VC 10s wingtips (especially the one on the port wing!) as they headed off towards Brize, and even more so as the two 'Dimbleby fighter bombers' broke off for Marham.

Certainly seeing two PR9s disappearing off over the Oxfordshire countryside was an uplifting sight.

[Skylark4]

I did think it rather amusing that the Canberra and the Comet (Nimrod) were designed long before HM came to the throne.
I used to work on the PR9 in Cyprus in the early 60`s and very proud to be associated with such a fine a/c I was and am, too.

Dimblebums `fighter / bomber`:- Do they think this up by themselves or do they have someone, who should know what he`s talking about, give them a brief. If that is the case, can we make sure they use someone who really does know and/ or get the other bloke to listen.

Mike W

[Jimlad]

some random thoughts - very impressive airshow guys - I think it was about the right size and length. If it had been much larger then it would have got a little tedious - oh goody another squadron of XYZ. I also think that if there had been loads of planes up, the traitors over in the treasury would no doubt have thought that if the RAF can spare loads of planes + have enough up to do all their deployments - well they obviously have too many planes so we can cut them again :(
ON the whole though it was well done, still can't believe Canberra is thundering on though...

[Beeayeate]

Ref the Canberras, best flying camera in the world I reckon. The oldest of the PR.9s still flying is XH169, accepted into service on 4 August 1960. That's only eight years after the Queen's coronation - now remind me, how long has the EuroTyphie been in gestation?

They built well in those days including the Nimrod [OK, the Comet], 50 this year as well [Comet, of course]! All a testement to the previous UK aircraft industry, the guys that flew and are flying them and the unseen thousands of guys who kept and are still keeping them flying.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Beeayeate

Don't forget Specaircrews finest VC10. Celebrating its 40th this year as well I believe. I though the flypast excellent although the BBC camera work was utterly appalling. Nice close up of the Nimmies nose but you couldn't see the "Fighter-bombers" in close formation with it!!!!!

Hope Concorde is still around in 10 years, a flypast of 4 in Diamond formation would be something else!! ;)

[Wycombe]

I was in the throngs in The Mall/St James's Park.

Buddha was so quiet, most people around me didn't seem to notice him until he was in the overhead (there was a lot of noise on the ground aswell!).

Huge cheer when Conc and The Arrows came into view - stirring stuff!

[Man-on-the-fence]

Jacko

You cant be that far away from me then, although the Canberras had left the formation by the time they passed over me in Abingdon.

Did the Canberras have any ilm in? Pictures would be fairly spectackleur methinks.

[paulo]

I was right in the middle of Mall. Swallowed hard a few times as they started to roll in with 633 Sqdn. playing.

Then, after a few minutes, just as everyone started to point out the Eurofighter, that distinctive line appeared over Admiralty Arch. Moments later, smoke ON! Crowd cheer!

What the cameras missed as they tracked the Concorde climbout was the tail man slot in to lead the V (Andy Offer?), 9 Hawks wide and breaking away and turning as one in a 30 degree right hander after the palace.

Great stuff.

[wub]

See http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/jubfly.html and check out the second pic down in the second column, says it all really. Well done to everyone, except the BBC director responsible for the 'coverage':rolleyes:

[rivetjoint]

Very good web page that, its not often the MOD "share" such pictures or maps or information with the public like that. Although its not often the MOD do that sort of thing I guess.

[Kiting for Boys]

BBC triumph No2

Managed to cut to the Tiller Girls as William Speakman VC passed in front of the Queen, Dimblebore didn't know what was up, lady from WRVS? blurts out that the Queen would stand, he kept talking over her.

And the camera moved on and we heard about Betty Boothroyd instead.

[Scud-U-Like]

Congratulations to all those involved in the planning, support and execution of the flypast. It was a remarkable sight. The orchestra punched out a magnificent arrangement of "633 Sqn", which tied the whole spectacle together (shame they stopped playing before the flypast ended!).

Anyone who wasn't moved by the whole thing must have a swinging brick in their chest!

[Big Green Arrow]

Top Fly Past..well done..watched it live on Sky from far away...the music made the hairs on my neck stand on end! It was just the right length, and the sight of Concorde powering off was truly a sight to behold....just like Summer 2000 at Aldergrove when one paid a visit and did the most wonderfull, noisy and beautifully light-blue afterburner departure!

[doubledolphins]

The whole thing looked great. But! If your are going to have an airliner taking part, why no Navy? Perhaps the Mighty Muncher had a Looker in its crew? Also, on the subject of the airliner. Surely soaring up out of formation like that signifies mourning, as in a "Missing Man" formation. Please could some one correct a Simlple Submariner? This time I want to be wrong!

[Man-on-the-fence]

dd

Conc soared out of formation AFTER she had flown over the palace (so HMQ missed it which is a pity as it was a beautiful sight). She had to get away from RAFAT as they had to do a right turn to Northolt whereas she was goint to the LHR overhead.

As she has bags of power I guess it was easier to step on it than turn with the Reds to Northolt and then get into the Heathrow pattern.

I'm sure I am not correct to the letter but I hope you get the gist.

I will ignore your beatings about the lack of fisheads in the formation as I dont want to spoil the memories of a wonderful day. (Do you get your turn at Portsmouth in a few weeks anyway??) :D :D

[doubledolphins]

Thanks, as I said before, Glad to be wrong. Yes it did look good. Perhaps next time (Diamond Jubilee) there might be a few more airliners, though the bean counters would never allow it!

[BOAC]

Photo No 3 down/3 across just looked like a 41Sqn close formation to me:p

[brit bus driver]

As I am for one, overseas and missed the whole 4 day hol and two, was down-route out of sight of any Brit-type TV, anyone have any good sites for pics or vid of the flypast? Saw some of the previous days celebrations; makes you proud to be a Brit.

[Reheat On]

Did anyone else notice the Royal Tart Taster, Ms Jennifrightfully Bond continually refer to the flypast at '15000 ft' - why don't these people know when to shut up.

Can anyone tell me why Concorde was not on the Mall centreline - was it a case that visual cues were not possible with the long nose - the old Vulcan low level problem? It seemed about 100yds off the North.

[f4aviation]

Few piccies from the VC10 now on-line at Air-Scene UK http://www.f4aviation.co.uk

[Flatus Veteranus]

Reheat On

Perhaps the Concorde was avoiding turbulence from the elements ahead?:confused:

[Reheat On]

El Presidente wasn't on the balcony was he? :rolleyes:

[jimgriff]

I'm suprised that nobody picked up on the fact that the BBC Radio 2 official comentator on the flypast called one of the elements " An RAF Comet and Two Meteors".....Ho Hum!! PLLLLEEEAASSEE!

[wub]

Photos of RAFAT and Concorde at

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/images/jubconc1.jpg

[wub]

Better link to Concorde + Reds pics:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/gallery.html

[Iron City]

Pics are great but from the practice sessions