BAC Jet Provost

[mauld]

BAC Jet Provost - YouTube

[BEagle]

What a great little aircraft the JP was - back in the days when the RAF could afford to train all pilots to wings standard on jet aircraft.....:rolleyes:

I went to a seminar at RAFC Cranwell earlier this year. It seemed like a ghost station - a few plastic pigs and that was it. Gone was that seemingly endless line of training aeroplanes on the main ASP.

Nothing happening at Barkston Heath either.

:(

[Wander00]

170-odd happy hours on JP3 and JP4. Does a JP5 with tip tanks make it a Strikemster? Who were the pilots - saw the display from a distance on Sunday and was impressed. Who were the pilots?

[Avionker]

The JP, fixed speed, variable noise.

Remember a few camouflaged examples at Brawdy when I was there. I believe they were used by JFACTSU.

[Madbob]

Wanderer 00

Ditto the hours but by my time the 4 had gone and replaced by the 5. As regards the JP5 with tip tanks that does not make it a Stikemaster as the Strikemaster had underwing pylons and a gun/bomb sight.

The JP5 with tip tanks was the version the RAF used to train navigators destined for the LL fast-jet role when at Finningley. The "normal" JP5A wazzing around at low level could do 300 kts (330 at a pinch) but sortie lengths were a max of 50-60 minutes. The tanks gave the baby navs an extra 30 minutes or so....(to find their way back to base!)

Beags

You also need to remember that Cranwell was not the only BFTS....there was also Linton and Church Fenton in the 1970's/80's with a combined fleet of probably 220 JP's running multiple courses throughout the year. Go back further to the 1960's and there will no doubt be others who can recall more BFTS's that have all since closed.:{:{:{

My BFT course at Linton has 5-yearly re-unions and the 35th is in York at the end of next month - it will be great to see the guys again. Happily, none of the course I was on have been killed in accidents or even had to experience a Martin-Baker let down. A pretty unique achievement I should think.

As you say a great little jet.

MB

[Herod]

Madbob; you're right. I'm a little older, and back then we also had Syerston and Acklinton. The BFTS's were turning out about 320 pilots a year, plus Cranwell. Happy times.

By coincidence, a colleague from BFTS at Syerston has tracked down all of our course, and a few of us are meeting up next month, prior to a fifty-year reunion in 2016. Not as lucky a course as you, three lost to accidents

[Wander00]

Madbob -thanks for tip tank info. W

[Gannet Driver]

Ex-RN aviator here, who also trained on JP3 and 4 at Linton-on-Ouse in early 60s.

Enjoyed it greatly, then went on to Hunter T8, which climbed 30 knots faster than JP would go flat out downhill!

If I can find a way of making it available, I have some-air-to-air footage of Jp's in fairly low-level formation over Yorkshire in earlt 6
'64. No promises, but will try.

[Rocket2]

Avionicker - yes we had 3 camo'd JPs at Brawdy a mix of 3's & 4's that varied as their life expired, maintained by the TTF / VASF staff. Spent many happy hours sitting in the right hand seat batting around & inbetween the Welsh hills being talked onto targets - the only time I've ever felt airsick (but thankfully never had to use the dreaded blue bag :eek:). Happy days.

[papa_sierra]

For a very good read involving JP's/Strikemaster, I can recommend Storm Front by Rowland White. One of those 'cannot put down 'till finished' books. From Amazon in both paperback and Kindle.

[Yellow Sun]

I recall sitting in the tower at Cranwell as Duty QFI one Friday afternoon at 1610. The circuit was empty and I counted the pins on the local controller's desk. There were 35 JPs airborne and I knew that they would all be on the ground within the next 45 minutes.

Those were the days!:ok:

YS

[Lynxman]

If Madbob is having his 35th reunion and the reunion is held every five years then he must have been on course 175 years ago. Just an observation.

[Madbob]

Lynxman

Very droll! I must say that when I posted that I was aware of the double entendre but though I do sometimes feel beyond my age, 175 plus years is stretching things a bit far!

It will be the seventh re-union of my venerable BFT course which our esteemed course leader, aka "STEELY" without fail manages to organise, helped by one or two whippers-in. :ok: (You will appreciate that his formation flying was not without room for improvement!)

In the early years we were even made welcome in the Mess at Linton even when some of us were RO's. (junior ones that is!) Now, in spite of having some senior RO's in our ranks we are no longer welcome it seems. No rooms available, or no staff on duty at weekends and other excuses, .:(:(which is a great shame.

Now we have to made do with the fine hotels in York and re-live our mis-spent youth re-enacting our Saturday night pub crawl to the Ye Olde Star, The Three Tuns and the King's Head with the obligatory late dinner at the local Indian. Great times and very fond memories of a year at Linton as a 19 year old, and to live it all again, if only in my dreams.

With a PPRuNE call sign such as yours I guess you were either FAA or AAC so perhaps the delights of York remain a mystery. A great loss I would say....

A still youthful MB.

[ShyTorque]

Ye Olde Star,

Now there was a pub where a young man could easily get himself in trouble.

We tried every Thursday night, which was the local payday and the night of the week when the local bored housewives hunted in packs for young trainee pilots who couldn't run away quickly enough. I arrived from Henlow as the fastest runner but soon got wise and developed a bit of a bad leg....

Thirty seven years ago for me. The bad leg got better but these days I look in the mirror and realise no-one would be bothered to chase... :(


Edit: having flown both of those JPs, I recall that even with the tip tanks empty, they flew more efficiently than the ones without them.

[Gannet Driver]

Have managed to edit a short clip from old 8mm cockpit shoot of 2 Jp4's in low-level formation over Yorkshire 1964, would someone please let me know how to post?

[ExAscoteer]

JP5s originally had tip tanks when built - they were removed when the aircraft had the avionics upgrade (VOR/DME) to become the JP5A.

The JPs on LLADTS (Low level and Air defence Training Sqn) were unofficially referred to as JP5Bs and were in reality a mixture of original JP5s and JP5As with the tip tanks put back on (the dead giveaway for the latter was the fact that they had the nose strakes).

IIRC they were all fitted with twin DME.


In addition to Mad Bob's post, the Strikemaster had the more powerful Viper 535 engine with an extra compressor stage (similar to the Viper 301 fitted to the Dominie).

[ShyTorque]

Re the aircraft at LLADTS, the cockpit layouts were sufficiently different to require an additional instrument rating check.

[Haraka]

JP5s originally had tip tanks when built - they were removed when the aircraft had the avionics upgrade (VOR/DME) to become the JP5A.

Pull the other one! :)

[Herod]

FWIW, I have a poster on my wall, showing the JP, proudly proclaiming "Hunting Aircraft Limited (A Hunting Group Company)" So there!

[Haraka]

FWIW, I have a poster on my wall, showing the JP, proudly proclaiming "Hunting Aircraft Limited (A Hunting Group Company)" So there!

Before that "Percival", then "Hunting Percival"
Story goes that the Hunting Group ( "Hunting Clan" anybody?) bought Percival as a convenient tax loss.

Then , horror of horrors , it started making money!

[Above The Clouds]

Oh the days of variable noise, constant thrust. :)

[ShyTorque]

Above The Clouds: Oh the days of variable noise, constant thrust.


Indeed. Due to days of pea-soup autumn fog at Linton, we were all bored stupid, not even one Viper engine had been started for over a week. Then a familiar sound, a low burbling, then a whining, whistling noise began. Someone rushed to the crewroom window and flung it open.

We all jumped up, desperate to fly as we were.

Who's starting one up? We all asked.

No-one, it was the automatic water boiler above the sink..... :(

[thing]

I've always wondered why the RAF's main training facilities are in a fog prone region of the country. If you count Church Fenton, granted closed now, there were five training establishments within 30nm. All in Fog Central.

[Gannet Driver]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hszoxnyybc4&feature=youtu.be

Not sure if I did this right, but have YouTubed short "from the cockpit" sequence of JP4's over snow-covered Yorkshire just east of Linton-on-Ouse in January 1964. Regret no sound, taken from old 8mm film I shot with fairly primitive cine-camera - allowed because this was final trip before Wings.

Agree with the fog comment above, tho' we only had one dose of it in the year i was there, but it was a beauty! Almost two weeks of freezing fog followed by massive snowfall.

Preview shows i didn't do it right, had hoped for actual YouTube screen at top of this posting, will re-try but also would be grateful for more professional advice.

[India Four Two]

GD,

See here: http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/534520-posting-youtube-videos.html

[Gannet Driver]

Hszoxnyybc4&feature=youtu.be

[Gannet Driver]

A bit hasty in my posting/pasting immed. above, but it worked - THANK YOU!

Gannet Driver

[Wander00]

Thanks GD - those halcyon days when I could remember what I had had for breakfast

[Quietplease]

Still quite a few of us around who flew the 1,2 ,3 and 4.
The 1 really was constant thrust variable noise. One of the ugliest aircraft. Little beads of metal in the jet pipe indicative of the odd turbine blade melting, engine came from an early drone, appeared to be made of old cocoa tins. U/C legs started to break so had to stop operating off the grass at Hullavington. No MB seats.
Apart from the odd spinning problem, (asymmetric tip fuel), the 3 and 4 were great little aircraft. 3 was a bit short of power for low level aeros, 4 a great improvement.

[Haraka]

The JP1 was partly sold on the basis of having 80%+ commonality with the "Piston" Provost . Hence the canopy, no ejection seats and the long u/c legs ( which even at Luton were known to "walk" on the grass.) Indeed the Viper was initially out of the Jindivik and IIRC the turbine blades were stamped out.
By the time they got to the JP4 the commonality with its propeller driven ancestor was reportedly down to less than 20% and the Viper had of course matured into a very creditable ( and immensely more powerful) product.
I think Quietplease is being very modest as there cannot have been that many who flew the JP2 among all the other Luton built marks.

[ZOOKER]

I remember seeing them flying circuits from Wymeswold and sometimes extending over the outskirts of Loughborough. I think they were Mk3s and 4s from Syerston, which I believe used Wymeswold as a satellite airfield. Great days.

[Herod]

Zooker, you're right. Wymeswold was the satellite for Syerston. 27th July, 1965...first solo, from Wymeswold.

[sycamore]

5 June `63. XM 380/`29`,Wymeswold,10 mins....

[sycamore]

Jenks, I can just get `TTAFFIOPHHHCP`correct,it`s when I release the brakes and feel the surge of power ,can`t remember much after that....not as much surge as my ZX9R .....but XW291 is still going well...(See `the Jet Provost Files`) for a nostalgic rewind...