Garish Duty Free rat runs.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Having flown from/through several UK airports this last month or so, it struck me that there seems to have been an introduction of garish winding lanes directly after security (with no option to bypass them) where one is bombarded with salespersons hawking free samples of perfume/food/whatever. I'm polite (mostly) but after a few "No thankyou's" and finding one's forward passage continually impeded by shoppers, sorry, travellers who DO want to go shopping, the stress levels started to rise. I'm of the school of thought where airports are where you fly to and from and they should have adequate facilities, but not that they should be shopping centres/malls where you fly from/to.

I realise that to service the monstrous loans used to purchase airports by investors they are keen to monetize every possible moment that passengers are on the ground, but to leave passengers with no option but to be exposed to the festival of consumerism is just plain wrong imho. What say the road warriors ?

[mixture]

Duty Free, what Duty Free ? The real flyers turn right after security and waltz through the secret door at LHR T5. :cool:

I realise that to service the monstrous loans used to purchase airports by investors they are keen to monetize every possible moment that passengers are on the ground, but to leave passengers with no option but to be exposed to the festival of consumerism is just plain wrong imho

Indeed that is the problem.... expensive to build, maintain and operate airports, increasing number of airport operators are listed on the world's stock exchanges.... leading to a desire to bring swift and large satisfaction to investors.

I hate it, I never use Duty Free, there is no place for it in the 21st century.... better deals are always available through ecommerce on the internet.

[ExXB]

An unforeseen consequence of governments allowing 'duty free on arrival'. Of course within the EU there is no 'duty-free'. Shops at Heathrow, for example, have only one price regardless if you are travelling to the EU, or outside.

For those travellers going elsewhere they simply pocket the VAT.

I suspect the same is true of LCC (and others) on their non-EU flights. They don't have two prices in their catalogues, but their onboard goods and services are free of VAT.

[Heathrow Harry]

Dublin is my favourite - some people have got so lost in the Duty Free they gave up and decided to settle down and raise families....................

[WHBM]

The new terminal at St Petersburg has an especially convoluted if not ludicrous wind through the "duty free", with no apparent signage for how to get to the gates.

British architect, of course

Pulkovo Airport < Projects | Grimshaw Architects (http://grimshaw-architects.com/project/pulkovo-airport/)

[Hotel Tango]

where one is bombarded with salespersons hawking free samples of perfume/food/whatever.

This is what pees me off the most! I can just about live with having to walk through the "shopping mall", but I start to get shirty about being approached every 10 meters by sales personnel pushing their products. I am not at an airport to shop. I'm there because I need to get a flight. My message to the sales people is quite simply that they leave me alone unless I approach them!

[WHBM]

The worst for this panhandling is the Heathrow Express sales tout at Heathrow Terminal 5, who is allowed to work inside the secure area, in the corridor leading from baggage claim, and who forcefully tries to sell the grossly overpriced tickets on the train service to Paddington, without any mention of the Underground service just outside the arrival area.

I asked them what was the best way to Knightsbridge, and was told "Heathrow Express to Paddington and then either the Underground or a taxi". The fact that there is a direct Underground service from the Terminal 5 station that departs more frequently, takes less time, doesn't involve nearly as much walking along the way, is direct rather than with connections, and costs 10% of all this mullarkey (because a First Class ticket on the HEx was what was offered first - for a 15 minute journey) was completely ignored.

[DaveReidUK]

I asked them what was the best way to Knightsbridge, and was told "Heathrow Express to Paddington and then either the Underground or a taxi". The fact that there is a direct Underground service from the Terminal 5 station that departs more frequently, takes less time, doesn't involve nearly as much walking along the way, is direct rather than with connections, and costs 10% of all this mullarkey (because a First Class ticket on the HEx was what was offered first - for a 15 minute journey) was completely ignored.Trading Standards at LB Hillingdon would probably be interested to know that.

[Capot]

I'm afrad your entirely correct rant is about 25 years too late.

"Duty-Free" shops were a dishonest rip-off when I set one up at a regional airport in 1986, and they still are.

Most items were not dutiable in the first place, and even if they were they were cheaper with the duty in any supermarket or high street shop in the nearest town.

If you have a delay, or otherwise have time to kill in a departure lounge, ask to see the shop manager and ask him/her what duty his/her stock - ostentatiously labelled as such - is free of. Initially you will be told a load of BS, and then the next stage is a discussion of the law relating to fraudulent descriptions of goods, etc etc. If you are in a BAA airport (ie my one-time employer) ask for the Terminal Duty Manager and have the same discussion.

Nothing will change, of course, but it passes the time.

I had no future in the BAA once the grocer took over the asylum. At meetings about extending the time passengers are forced to be in the departure lounge (increasing "dwell time"; a management KPI), it did not do to mutter that airports are to transfer people and goods from land to air as quickly and efficiently as possible, not to make it a protracted and unpleasant experience while also defrauding them by selling goods wrongly labelled as duty-free and/or cheap tat at inflated prices.

[GrahamO]

I am reliably infomed (maybe not) that 28% of the GDP of Dubai, is carried out in the duty free area of the airport.

There's also something like a few tens of million pounds each year spent on perfume.....

Its not an airport, but a shop with a runway at the end of it.

[surely not]

Stretching the truth a long way to call Dubai a shop with a runway!!! I have travelled through Dubai a lot, sometimes I had time to spend in the Duty Free area and rarely got pestered by sales staff, but on many occasions I walked right by all the temptations and straight to the gate or coffee shop.

The range of destinations available and competitive fares provide many connecting passengers, not all of whom have fast connections, and they welcome the distraction of shops to browse whilst they spend a couple of hours waiting for their onward flight.

[OhNoCB]

Maybe I am cynical but having noticed this too, including the amount of passengers rushing through the winding 'lanes' with various backpacks, I wondered if someone was hoping there would be lots of broken bottles of whiskey and expensive perfume, thus forcing the poor folk into 'buying' it. :E

[Metro man]

I found the price for Swiss chocolate in the duty free at Zurich airport was more expensive than a department store I shop at in Singapore.:hmm:

I remember a newspaper investigation years ago which showed that in some instances alcohol was available at a lower price in supermarkets than Heathrow duty free.

[crewmeal]

ASDA, Tesco's and Morrisons quite often have booze for £12 a litre. Gone are the days of proper duty free shops. if you're travelling within Europe it's VAT free and you can bring in what you like. The '200 fags and bottle' rule still applies outside the EU, where you can still get a bargain. Amman comes to mind an excellent range. Dubai used to be good years ago but now it's one of the most expensive.

[SpringHeeledJack]

For me, whether the prices of offered goods are cheaper or not in comparison to the high street/web to be caveat emptor, apart from an impulse buy, anyone who doesn't check beforehand the likely price range is unwise. There should be a high level enquiry into the so-called 'Duty Free' status, and as mr capot says the businesses concerned might not be being totally honest with the (captive) public.

For me to be affronted by a shiny black 'Yellow Brick Road' embedded with spangly/sparkly stars that reflect back up the very strong overhead lighting to dazzle the innocent traveller and when at the beginning of said 'road' it is truly difficult to orientate the way to the central area and gates due to the winding nature of said 'road'. People LOVE to shop, and in transit areas it helps to pass the time, but more joined up thinking by airport owners would be helpful. I despair when confronted with masses of people at 06.00am shopping as though it were saturday afternoon, but I'm evidently in the minority :hmm:

[joy ride]

Reading thread I suddenly realised that it is about 10 years since I last flew in an airliner, no wonder I have the Wander Lust again! However, it sounds like airports have become even worse than I was used to; last time I used one they were already "Shopping Malls with runways" but to have sales canvassers stalking my move would drive me crazy. Shopping is no more than a necessary chore, for food, beer and clothing.

I know many people love shopping, but just how are we expected to carry all this mulloch we have just impulse-bought? We have not yet evolved four arms and baggage limits keep going down.

[Captivep]

To be fair, T5 departures at Heathrow is not like that at all, although there is a small sales area on the exit from the baggage hall.


I flew out of Sydney a few weeks ago and it's one of the worst I've seen for this type of thing.

[Basil]

It is duty free to the seller who then increases the mark up so it is nothing like duty free price to you, the buyer.

A wenwe tale:
Wenwe were in the RAF, buying at overseas stations or from Saccone & Speed in Gibraltar, cigarettes were a sixth of UK retail (5p for 20 cf 30p in the shops).
I don't know what true DF spirits prices are now; perhaps someone who's bought from the aforementioned S&S may advise.

Just had a look at an old wines & spirits price list from RAF Gatow about 1970.
Prices are per BOTTLE:
Ordinary Whisky: £0.71
Glenfiddich: £1.29
Martell VSOP: £1.63
Vodka (40oz): £0.48
Chateauneuf du Pape: £0.50
:{

[McGoonagall]

Malaga. It is the only thing that spoils a really good airport. Exit security and you are in a very large perfume shop and are regularly accosted by sales reps. As it was, daughter wanted some perfume bringing back. Saw what she wanted and swallowed hard at the 88e price tag. An expat couple told us to buy it back in the UK as it is much cheaper there. Sure enough £42 at Luton Airport.

[vctenderness]

The old saying is 'it's duty free not profit free'.

What I find incredible is that no one has ever investigated the price fixing of fragrances.

You will never, ever get a cheap bottle of perfume or aftershave from any airport, airline or store world wide.

I have noticed that all prices, taking into account exchange rates, are roughly the same everywhere so it is definitely uncompetitive practice.:=

[ExXB]

if you're travelling within Europe it's VAT free and you can bring in what you like.

If you're travelling within Europe you pay the VAT of the country of purchase. As you've paid VAT there there is no limit on what you can take to another EU country. (Within reason, personal use, etc.)

But when you are travelling to Switzerland (or the US, or Canada, etc.), for example, they still charge you the price inclusive of VAT. They then scan your boarding card to prove you exported it, and then pocket the 20 odd percent.

One of the biggest rip-offs on the planet.

[Heathrow Harry]

"What I find incredible is that no one has ever investigated the price fixing of fragrances."

and it's only really coloured water in the first place................

Duty free is useful if it has some local booze you can't get at home at a reasonable price but if it's a major brand it is almost always cheaper outside (except maybe in Norway)

[WHBM]

I am reliably infomed (maybe not) that 28% of the GDP of Dubai, is carried out in the duty free area of the airport

I think you may have confused the Duty Free shops at DXB (which in my experience are rather a poor selection) with the various Tax Free business zones like Jebel Ali where international businesses are not assessed standard tax treatments (not that there's a lot of tax in Dubai anyway).

[Davef68]

At meetings about extending the time passengers are forced to be in the departure lounge (increasing "dwell time"; a management KPI), .

Presumably the same reason that most airports now have moved most of their 'buying opportunities' 'downstream' of security. (Glasgow being the worst) - add in the fact that screen announcements don't announce delays etc until after security, it all funnels people to the shops.

I suppose it also deters lurking spotters

[pwalhx]

Truth is it is the price we pay for the price we pay to fly nowadays. Airports have to gain revenue lost from airlines from somewhere.

However always amazes me how much it distresses people having to walk through these area, it is no big deal, maybe adds a few minutes on to your walk but it is hardly difficult.

[mrben09]

To be fair most of the booze in DXB is sold on the way in, in the sizeable Duty Free shop in arrivals. If you have ever had a Dubai booze licence and tried to buy a bottle of Whiskey in Spinneys, you will then understand why most (expat) locals buy on arrival.

[Capot]

One of the biggest rip-offs on the planet.To put numbers on to that, in the shop I mentioned earlier, the airport, ie us, bought from a supplier and ran the shop; only later passing it over to a concessionaire who ran it better than we did.

A figure that has always stuck in my mind was that we bought Johnnie Walker (1 litre bottle) in bond for about £3.50 per bottle, and retailed it "Duty Free" for about £2.00 more than the high street "duty-included" price, which also included the retailer's reasonable profit. I think our price must have been about £15.00, maybe a tad less, but memory fades.

People bought it because of the "Duty Free" sign.

The rip-off continues today. The difference is that the proceeds are not used to pay airport running costs in most airports now; they go straight into the profits of the owner, usually being extracted to overseas holding companies as "management charges" and the like to minimise tax, and to maintain the fiction that the user charges are required to pay the airport costs having taken all other revenue streams into account.

[SpringHeeledJack]

However always amazes me how much it distresses people having to walk through these area, it is no big deal, maybe adds a few minutes on to your walk but it is hardly difficult.

These things are relative and compared with really distressing things, well they are just 1st World problems, but when one is subjected to all the obligations of funneling before security, then security and then to be subjected unwillingly to a shopping mall before getting to a holding area before going to the gate, it's just another stress. If one likes to shop, especially in crowded spaces it must seem like nirvana :hmm:

[DaveReidUK]

to maintain the fiction that the user charges are required to pay the airport costs having taken all other revenue streams into accountSo airports could scrap user charges and still break even purely on the revenue from their retail activities?

[poke53281]

Used to be a fun novelty in the 80's getting some new shades and a bottle of old spice on the way to the Costa's .

Now its Costa freakin Cofee in every corner, and the horendous bright lighting of these malls only serve to trigger a migraine on top of a already stressful situation.

I hate airports.

[Capot]

airports could scrap user charges and still break even purely on the revenue from their retail Probably not, and I didn't say that. But any assertion that all retailing and car parking revenue is used in some kind of central pot to keep the charges as low as possible is a fiction.

So when airports make the case for higher charges, you will find that most if not all the retailing net contribution has been squirrelled away by some accounting trick or another; inter-group charges are the favourite and, when they go overseas, reduce the tax bill as well. Trebles all round.

[easyflyer83]

My personal opinion is that we should really man up. Unless you have kids, for MOST people the airport shouldn't really be that stressful. You turn up leaving enough time, be prepared to queue and be prepared to take your shoes off etc at security. Nobody likes to queue but we all manage it at Alton Towers or wherever else it occurs and we generally don't go into meltdown.

As for the shops. Well there is usually an aisle through there with shelves and merchandise at either side. So yes you have to walk through the duty free but what's it matter whether there are walls at either side of the pathway or duty free goods? I have never been forced through a duty free shop where I've had to walk round a maze of shelves and displays... There has always been a clear path through.

For many passengers, admittedly mainly leisure travellers, the mall experience is part of the holiday. My partner loves to turn up hours before so he can get the full airport experience and he's not alone.

[ExXB]

I believe the OP was specifically targeting agressive sales staff:

where one is bombarded with salespersons hawking free samples of perfume/food/whatever. I'm polite (mostly) but after a few "No thankyou's" and finding one's forward passage continually impeded by shoppers, sorry, travellers who DO want to go shopping, the stress levels started to rise.

Airports need to make the experience less stressful, not add to it.

[easyflyer83]

I've never really experienced that but then again I am always happy to be offered free samples. I really don't see what is stressful about that. Never been actively asked if I want to but anything, the odd 'can I help you' but that has been when I've been looking at their products.

[pwalhx]

Agree with easyflyer, I still fail to understand why people find walking through a duty free are so stressful. As has been said it's a first world problem and really pails into insignificance when compared to what is happening in the wider world right now.

[Capot]

Coming back through Gatwick last night reminded me of the blatantly dishonest rip-off that is the "last buying opportunity" that passengers are forced to walk through after clearing Customs on ARRIVAL. The claims about saving money over that mythical place "the High Street" are otherwise known as lies, or even fraud.

Perhaps "obtaining money from gullible visitors by deception" is the best description.

Mind you, I've never ever seen anyone actually stupid enough to buy anything in those traps, but the fact that they are still there shows that someone occasionally does, I suppose.

Here's an extract from the Gatwick website. I'm not sure if the shop they are talking about is the one after Customs, or another one on the way to Customs if there is such a thing; regardless, it's entertaining to tot up the misinformation, distortion, contradiction and downright lies they have managed to fit into two short paragraphs:

International travellers arriving at Gatwick can now shop at the World Duty Free Arrivals Store, which offers a selection of goods that passengers normally only see on their departure, sold at tax free prices.

The range of items available include fragrances, cosmetics, confectionery and electrical goods. There is also a wide range of duty paid spirits, wines, champagne and beers, together with tobacco at duty paid prices.

[Hotel Tango]

Birmingham has a similar "duty free" store after customs. I too have never seen anyone purchasing anything there on my forty odd arrivals since it was opened. I guess that enough pax must use it or it would have long gone. But I must also state that, unlike the departures store, I have never been approached by sales staff as I exit, which is fair enough.

[ExXB]

The range of items available include fragrances, cosmetics, confectionery and electrical goods.

Why would these products be free of UK VAT? Are they zero-rated in the UK? At least they are honest that cigs and booze prices include the VAT - however since I'm usually arriving from outside the EU I should get it free of UK VAT.

Duty free, on arrival, is possible in a number of countries but I'm not certain if the UK is one of them. In any case if you are arriving from an EU airport you cannot be exempted from any local VAT.

I once went to a Currys at LGW and asked for the price of an iPad. The price they quoted was higher than the VAT inclusive price at the Apple Store, even though the clerk swore up and down it was 'tax-free'.