Security in Aviation

[Ultergra]

I've had it seeing the ground staff just waltz through their so called "security check points" all la-de-dah and then straight out into a secure area. Yet, flight crew get the 3rd degree.

The federal government has raised the National Terrorism Level from Medium to High. If they are serious about this, these dodgy half ar$ed practices need to stop.

Can we lobby someone and get this sorted? It affects EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Checklist Charlie]

Easy, just light some more fires to create more smoke and buy some more mirrors to add to the impression that there is some kind of 'security' in all the pantomime we see at airports:{

Farce begets more farce

CC:ok:

[ga_trojan]

I believe security theater is the term.

[SOPS]

I was checked today, as I left on a international flight for explosives. The person checking me wore a long beard and was not born in Australia. (I know that because I asked where he was from, as he was doing a body search on me)...

It's time to retire ....this is now a young persons game...

[Falling Leaf]

Security in this country appears to be a form of welfare where we can still have people sitting on a chair all day reading a book to ensure no one walks the wrong way through an exit...

My favourite is a checkpoint in Adelaide for staff where there are 3 people working. One on the scanner, one to check your ASIC (don't ask to see their's, big mistake), and one to scan for explosives...

The other thing that drives you nuts is the inconsistency between airports. Oh we are in Perth today, better take out my mini deodorant can....

And has already been mentioned, most of the staff perfectly match the profile of the very people most likely to commit an act of terrorism in this country...

No wonder the airlines can't make a profit.

[superG3]

"I've had it seeing the ground staff just waltz through their so called "security check points" all la-de-dah and then straight out into a secure area. Yet, flight crew get the 3rd degree."

I suppose one could refuse entry to the cockpit,cabin and cargo holds to those whom have not undergone "proper" screening. That would surely make some noise!:ugh:

[mattyj]

I sat next to a pyrotechnician on a flight to MacKay once. I asked him if he ever had trouble with a security check, having handled explosives. He said never. He'd been tested often. He went on to say, he handled all the nitro and sulphur compounds that are supposed to show up on those wands, and should be all over his jumper.
So what use is it..!? Do you have to literally have an explosive vest strapped on to get a positive?

[NIK320]

It's pretty good at picking up shoe polish tho, a quick covering of that in the morning and your boots will send that machine nuts. The usual solution is for them to do it 2 more times, without touching the boots. No need to actually inspect the item that is giving a high level positive reading.

[YPJT]

Ultergra

As you clearly feel so strongly about this, may I suggest you use the online security incident report form
https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/transport/security/aviation/otsform.aspx

You can, if you are still unhappy refer the matter direct to the executive director of the office of Transport Security or Minister Warren Truss.

[DeltaT]

So can I go through security as airline staff with my ASIC and then get changed into Uniform before getting into the cockpit? and bypass all this trouble :}

[IsDon]

Some good advice. Kindly remember that the Aviation Transport Security
Regulations 2005 specifically says that aircrew are required to be screened, whereas airline staff with an ASIC can enter a cleared area and not have to go through a screening point.

It's an everyday part of life...it's been going on for a long time now...probably time to get over it!

As aircrew we are used to dealing with things of a practical nature. We deal in science, physics, mathematics. Politics? Not so much.

Aircrew being screened has squat to do with enhancing security. What it does is demonstrate to our punters that we, as aircrew, have to put up with this nonsense. So when the punters see us being treated like criminals, by those most likely to be the criminals themselves, they are more likely to be compliant.

Like it or not, we are the stars of the theatrical performance that is the airport security farce.

[Nautilus Blue]

At the aviation related facility I work at we have visibly ramped up security in response to the increased terror alert. Its probably not appropriate to discuss on an open forum, but if the phrase "blue alert bulb" means anything you'll have the gist.

[simsalabim]

It is fairly simple really.There are multi millions of government dollars raised from taxation that needs to be distributed to friends of the government. They can't just hand it over , that wouldn't look good so the best way is to create problems with very expensive " solutions" i.e. terror threats. This creates fear amongst the general population and makes them happy that the government is doing something to make them "safe".
Hence the farce that is airport security since 9/11 . In fact the farce in the middle east right now in the name of "humanitarian rescue"
Security and wars are big business and big bucks for both those in government handing out contracts copping the kickbacks and to their mates in the military industrial complex , all to make us feel warm and fuzzy and "safe".

Fear Pays: Chertoff, Ex-Security Officials Slammed For Cashing In On Government Experience (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/23/fear_pays_chertoff_n_787711.html)

[simsalabim]

The more I think about this the more angry I become.Example of the stupidity:
I recently went back to shaving with the old fashioned butterfly top safety razor , twisting the bottom part of the handle opens up the head for easy installation/removal of razor blades. If anyone has seen the excellent British TV series entitled Peaky Blinders you can plainly see the horrific damage that can be caused by these blades , my first time through airport security I was concerned that these blades might cause a problem but no.... not a problem.

[Boney]

A good friend of mine used to be a baggage handler with a "major Australian airline"

About 5 yrs ago, he accidentally went to work for nearly a week with a Leatherman in his side pocket. He had inadvertly put his work pants on an hr before work and did a couple of house jobs and forgot to take the Leatherman out.

Of course, he turned up to work, day after day, got a very lazy wand passed over him and after about 5 shifts realised what he had been taking to work for nearly a week.

This whole security thing is load of bull$hit.

5 years ago there used to be a woman in Brisbane, she used to snatch your paperwork out of your hands just before you went through the metal detector. She would shake the $hit out of it to see if a Nuclear Weapon fell out or something?

[Gas Bags]

Your mate went to work for nearly a week wearing the same pants....and he was a baggage handler.........hmmmmmhh stinky!!

[Ollie Onion]

What I find weird is that in domestic security, passengers can pass through without showing ID or Boarding Cards but I get the full work over and a stringent check of my ASIC. Still they will decide the solution to all this hieghtened security is to half the validity of the ASIC to just 12 months whilst doubling the price!!:ugh:

[insertnamehere]

****, Ollie. Don't give them ideas!

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Of course, he turned up to work, day after day, got a very lazy wand passed over him and after about 5 shifts realised what he had been taking to work for nearly a week.


The wand is often turned on and 'beeped' against the agent's badge etc. - then switched off when passed over the person entering the secured area...

It's all theatrics for the CCTV..

[73to91]

Guys at the airports have nothing to worry about. Mate says that the security at Port Botany for crew visiting (they go into the city for example) is a joke. Crew just show Crew Id or photo copy of passport and out they go.

When they return, no checks on 'shopping' bags.

Other visitors show MSIC (M for maritime) card at gate some actually sign in but certainly no scanners in sight. No AQIS on site, Customs come and go.

I know this is an aviation site and no threat to pax etc at a container terminal but just saying.;) Border Security !! yeah sure.

[over_centre]

Other visitors show MSIC (M for maritime) card at gate some actually sign in but certainly no scanners in sight. No AQIS on site, Customs come and go.

I have an ASIC and an MSIC; same paperwork submitted, same checks etc but MSIC valid for 5 years and the cost is half that of an ASIC.

:mad:

[simsalabim]

Sorry, but an MSIC is no where near as sexy as an ASIC to Customs and Border protection dudes who don't get off on asserting authority over merchant mariners as much as airline types .There is usually no one around from the general public to witness the charade and to boost their egos.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

You're just cranky the Customs (sorry...Border Force) guy has more stripes on his shirt than you!

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Shouldn't say it, but once upon a time I let an ex-girlfriend look after a 744F. No security, nothing, just because I'd probably vetted her better than them. Tulla BTW

[pianokeys]

Some years ago I was in a meeting with a Goverment under Secretary and the expert's, "yes the unknown quantity and the drips under pressure" from Aviation Security in Canberra. They wanted to know how we regarded their new aviation Security rules. The chief pilot commented you give my pilots an ASIC and do every check under the sun before they can get it then you lock them in the flight deck behind an armoured door so no one can get at them. We put them in charge of a million dollar aircraft and trust them to fly it and now you want to go through security and humiliate my pilots. The answer was its all to do with public perception nothing to do with Security what a joke. I made the statement what about the Engineers or catering staff who arrive at work jump in the truck or van and off they go down to the Aircraft backwards a forward no Security. The answer was watch this space I am still watching its a joke.:confused::confused:

[framer]

I made the statement what about the Engineers or catering staff who arrive at work jump in the truck or van and off they go down to the Aircraft backwards a forward no Security.
Until this is addressed, everything else is a waste of time, completely.
Until it is addressed, every single x ray and explosives swab and pat down is a waste of money. Every security professional ( that's professional) knows this.
It's pretty basic stuff.....something about water and path of least resistance.

[pianokeys]

Framer your right and what about the Jet verses Turbo Prop you can fly on a 70 seat Turbo Prop And no Security but if it's a 70 seat Jet then it's all on full security.

[YPJT]

Pianokeys, I think you better check your version of the ATSRs as your copy is about 2 yrs out of date.

Jet propulsion is no longer the trigger for screening. It is now MTOW with 20,000kg being the magic figure.

[ranmar850]

I made the basic mistake of having a 1/2" combination spanner in my backpack recently--"no, I'm not going out there to join the check-in queue, always do it online"-- in the bin:( Such a dangerous piece of equipment.

[noclue]

I've had a pax get through security with 3x chef knifes, ranging from 6-10" long, wrapped in a x-Ray proof tea towel apparently.

Super safe :ok:

[capt.cynical]

"X-ray proof tea towel" WTF

[scrubba]

oooohhh, can I get a jockstrap made from that?????

[noclue]

Maybe I gave our security brothers to much credit, the knifes were wrapped in a tea towel and weren't seen/picked up in the x-Ray machine. Therefore x-Ray proof.