777 Captains to 380 again

[Ketek400]

Yet another blow to the 330/340 guys!

[apron]

Where has this been documented out of interest? I'm sure it's in the pipeline tho

[jack schidt]

You can't be serious to think that any Boring driver would want to defect to the whale?

Just had to get in there before the "mines better than yours" bunch came into the fight pit.

JS

[Saltaire]

Laker:

They will get interest. The 380 does not offload bags. 777 is notorious for having the most "wankers" as the cabin crew describe. DEC's on the 380? Not going to happen. Maybe the 777 again. The 380 as a commercial failure? Perhaps, but at the price EK is paying for them. Highly doubtful.

[Al Murdoch]

God... Here we go.

[Laker]

Not True Saltaire,

I spoke with a cabin crew manager who said they put all crew through a day of training focused solely on dealing with 380 pilots since they tend to be so "odd." They learn about identifying anti-social behavior and how to effect a positive outcome when working with such people.

I've also spoken with the wife of an SVP's shoe shiner who said that the company is very disappointed in the 380 payload. It's either passengers or bags. Not both. That's why we have freighters flying 20 miles in trail on most of the 380 US destinations. Oh and the 380 looks funny. :=

[Heritage 1]

Laker you should get a real job! The boredom is obviously getting too much for you!

[Cloud Bunny]

This is all news to me but would they likely open up the invitation to F/O's as well as and when?

[Saltaire]

Laker, it is true. I fly the thing. Rumor all you like. So we take 500 passengers without bags? Interesting...

Agreed, it's not the prettiest thing in the sky, but the extra space, air quality, lounge bar etc. seem to be popular. Oh, and it's slowly taking most of the ULR destinations. Pretty or not :O

Maybe you should speak with Tim Clark?

[HarryDunne]

The freighter is doing more US routes, that much is true. However it's not due to the A380 having to leave bags behind, this, as we all know, was a petty rumour started by some jealous chaps who no longer flew the shiniest jet. There are more freighter flights simply because the company are making huge profits from flying cargo around. They clearly prefer the 380 for flying people around these routes.

As for Mr Laker's suggestion that the pilots are 'odd' and the cabin crew have a day of training to address this, what a ridiculous statement. I hope this was an attempt at humour.

You see, the truth is, there are colleagues that we all find 'odd' from time to time. I am lucky to have been on the 330/340 which happens to suit my life outside of work. The pilots I work with are mostly a fantastic bunch and those I know on the 380 and 777 are all like the rest of us who just want a good flight with no paperwork to fill out when we land.

I'm aware there's courses starting this or maybe next month for us on the 'little bus' to go over to the 380, the list of interested candidates from the left seat is lengthy so I can't see why they would require Boeing pilots to ask the change.

Let's try and draw a line under the childish squabbling, you're just making yourselves look immature and not doing wonders for your blood pressure. Our employers clearly like the 777 and the 380 and what we think means nothing to them.

Good evening

[Capn Rex Havoc]

It is also a blow for the a380 guys who came back to the 330 for their commands 3 years ago who are going to get bypassed by 777 guys who are junior to them and have zero airbus time. All of these guys have over 2000 hours 380 time.

[glofish]

Be so kind to post name of the airline in the thread. We might save the time not to check it if not relevant. Thank you

Which airlines in the ME has 380ies and T7s? At least for now? :ugh:

[fatbus]

JA at a wash up this week said last option would 777 Capt's transfer to the 380 . Priority 330/340 Capt's . Direct hire FO s to continue and no to 777 FO s transfer to the 380.

[GoreTex]

laker, I pax to LAX all the time, even on a full flight, that means the good people in EK leave passengers bags behind but take staff bags, :D

[fatbus]

The 380 does not leave bags behind, the 777 goes load restricted. If anyone thinks the 380 is not making money have them talk to any FO doing their upgrade ,777 or 380, that have had the commercial briefing.

[donpizmeov]

Was this the wash up with the moaning john deere FOs complaining they didn't get upgraded at 3yrs as promised?:ugh:

The don

[kingpost]

Childish twonks, are you not part of the same team?

[MulletHead]

T7 plonkers please stop comparing your tool with the A380, its like comparing a Mini to Rolls Royce.

Enough, lol

MH

[haveago]

This should not be a Boeing v Airbus childish slanging match again! Its pathetic. Us Pilots must look like a right bunch of plonckers to the outside world.
This thread is about 330/340 pilots yet again being shafted by EK management!

[nolimitholdem]

Why do the 380 captains always seem to be short little fat fellas? Paging Dr. Freud.

Also, I heard they smell bad. True rumour.

Favourite is the FO showing his wife and kids the sims at the college. A380 sim is in use but the bridge is down on the B777 ("John Deere", for those following at home), to allow them a peek inside. So he says to his wife, (in harsh Strine accent, natch) "Of course, the one I fly is much bigger".

The sim.

HAHAHAH! No wonder eyes roll every time you hear "super" on the radio.

Pity the paycheque is the same size...then there might be something to brag about.

[Shangaan]

A bit off topic.....
I See Emirates 100th B777-300ER just rolled out of the factory at Paine Field. I believe it will be A6-ENV.
Good day mates

[nakbin330]

If there are not enough volunteers for the 380, juniority will mean that the DECs employed in 2008 will be the first to go. 777s loss, 380s gain ... :E

[fliion]

Not scientific...but anyone I've spoken to at the 8-10Yr+ on property - all seem to want it due days off and the likely increase in regional duties of T7 crew.

I think this one will go pretty senior.

f.

[HarryDunne]

I'd say that's fairly accurate fliion; trust me, you don't want to regularly operate into Kabul, Trivandrum, anywhere in Pakistan and exclusively fly in darkness. If you senior 777 guys take an educated guess at what your rosters will look like in the next couple of years then I can't see any junior skippers getting a chance at swapping fleets.
There are, of course, quite a few destinations around the Gulf and larger airports in India the 380 will go to, however if you look at our route map and still want the roster you've had for last 8 years of so, it's an easy decision.
Having said that, you may find that you enjoy being home more regularly when doing mostly turnarounds, I certainly do. I'm not as chronically fatigued as I was going through so many time zones and I most definitely don't miss taking the 340 West one week then East the next with no chance to get your head straight.
It comes down to a lifestyle choice.
Harry

[Wizofoz]

Well, as someone who MIGHT be around about in the frame to go over if I chose to, I do agree that it is probably at the point where the 380 is a better lifestyle, and it certainly serves places I want to go more regularly.

But it would mean that, as someone pushing 50, my first Airbus type rating would be LHS on the Big Bus, complete with the egos and company expectations that entails.

I'm not saying never, but right now that seems like a huge pain in the arse!!

[donpizmeov]

Wiz,
If it hurts your arse your doing it the wrong.

The don

[fliion]

Wiz

You may not have to worry - judging from latest email the OMA can apparently be amended by a "notes" addendum in an email. See note 1. (Which does not comply with 20.10.12 para 3 - as that is based on supposition of no interest.)

Keep discovering.

: /

f.

[donpizmeov]

I hear ya Royston.

Am not sure if it's true, but was told it was to manage a surplus on the 777. Seems loss of long stay ULR has left the fleet with too many Captains.

Hard to believe when everyone is flying max hours.

[JAYTO]

Hard to believe when they are still doing upgrades.


J

[Rather Be Skiing]

I hear ya Royston. Am not sure if it's true, but was told it was to manage a surplus on the 777. Seems loss of long stay ULR has left the fleet with too many Captains. Hard to believe when everyone is flying max hours.

Hard to believe when they are looking for additional 777 Training Capt because they anticipate increased demand upcoming.

[fatbus]

Not upcoming demand but trainers leaving,don't get too excited. 777 upgrades and new hire intake has slowed .transferring 777 Capt's to the 380 does two things provide a small number of upgrades at the same time as managing the surplus.

[glofish]

It's unfair to the 340 blokes. They deserve the transition.

Could i apply? Yes
Would i? No

Happy?

[airbusgirl66]

Completely agree with you glofish.

[The Turtle]

Another blow to the morale of the 340 people.

Shameful

[Wizofoz]

If they want 777 pilots to transfer, they get 777 pilots, even if they have to draft them.

Yes it's unfair to the 330/340 pilots, but if you want to go and don't, all you are doing is meaning they will NOW be unfair to a junior 777 pilot that doesn't want to transfer.

If NOT going helped out the likes of airbus girl, I wouldn't even think of it (I'm not anyway!!) but unfortunately it doesn't.

[lowstandard]

Old Tractor Seat Stock Image - Image: 2905211 (http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-image-old-tractor-seat-image2905211)

I don't care about doing a course, route structure, quality of life, Boeing v Airbus, payload or anything really.

Just the thought of a more comfortable chair is enough to make a person express their interest all over the 380.

Love my tractor, hate the seat.

[Rather Be Skiing]

Not upcoming demand but trainers leaving,don't get too excited. 777 upgrades and new hire intake has slowed .transferring 777 Capt's to the 380 does two things provide a small number of upgrades at the same time as managing the surplus.

Thanks for the clarification. I was going by the FCN which stated 2015 training projections necessitated in increase in trainer numbers.

Silly me.

[White Sausage]

Problem is, if you do the move from 777 to 380, you are stuck here for life. There are no jobs for a 380 driver as opposed to dozens on the 777 outside of EK. I rather keep my chances for a plan B even though the 777 seats and the terrible noise are killing me.
Happy to be corrected though...

[palm]

So true WS, the move is a one way ticket to no where....the 777-x will be the killer in a few years. The 380 is a dead horse, a NO plan B solution in case something goes wrong...

No thank you,

:ugh::ugh:

[White Knight]

Why do the 380 captains always seem to be short little fat fellas?

You sure about that?:E

Could i apply? Yes
Would i? No


No problem; don't think we'd want you:} anyway...

[Wizofoz]

Yeah, not the most coherent sentence I've ever written, Mullah, I'll try again!!

I'm saying that passing up the 380 if you would otherwise want to go to it in some kind of show of solidarity to the Airbus boys and girls is a bit futile, as if they don't get enough volunteers they'll just draft them in from the more junior 777 ranks.

It doesn't help you, it doesn't help the 330/340 guys, and it means a more junior 777 Captain will be forced onto the 380 when he doesn't want to go, so it's something of a self-defeating strategy.

[fatbus]

Was any 777 capt forced over Last bid? No, do you think it's going to be any different this time ? No

[Wizofoz]

They were planning forced transfers about a year ago, FB, but a change in the numbers meant they let 330/340 guys go instead.

I imagine they WILL probably get enough volunteers, but my point is is they don't, they'll draft, not open more positions up to the 330/340 pilots.

[Dubaiforever]

it "seems" that there aren't enough 380 F/O's with the requirements to be upgraded so they have to move 60 (sixty) CPT's from 777 to 380.
For the above mentioned reason they will need more 777 captains (all from upgradings) and new joiners (hence more TRIs).

[MagicCarpet]

Yeah, those 6-year A380 FOs with 4,000 hours of heavy Airbus time aren’t ready for a 380 command, but the Boeing guys who upgraded at 4yrs and 2,500 hours T7 time are. Come on. Just align the 380 upgrade mins in line with the 777 and you’ll have plenty of qualified FOs to nominate for command.

[glofish]

I love it:

"They have to move" tractor drivers to the 380....
Some time ago we heard the whale astronauts gloat about how many of them failed or needed additional training (so be prepared ..!)

Anyway, nobody will be forced, there's no problem here:

Enough JD drivers who will apply (but would never admit!)
Enough FOs on the JD to upgrade (good for them!)
Enough LC-to-shiny-jet-wannabees in the pipeline to fill the ranks (ohh god ..!)
Enough just-upgraded-and-immediatly-wannabe-starred to distribute their infinite wisdom onto the main fleet (ohhhhhh god ..!)

[haveago]

So I have 12000 Airbus time 9000 of which is wide body. I also have 2300 hours on the 380 with Emirates. Upgraded on the 330 with Emirates just short of 3 years ago and probably average 8-10 trips per month which generates minimal monthly hours due to all being turn arounds. Fly to India consistently at night with monsoon weather, or Africa or war zones. However I'm not suitable for a 380 upgrade!! But my Colleague who joined 777 on the same day and happens to have 3000 EK command time but not a single hour on any Airbus qualifies for a 380 transfer..

Somebody tell me what I'm missing??????

[dubaigong]

Most probably missing the Middle East logic... :\

[TwoTone-7]

It's all LOL, lack of logic. :ugh:

[White Knight]

main fleet.... Yep Gloeybaby. The Main Fleet is indeed the Super Fleet... Keep your chins up!

[HarryDunne]

Having recently spoken to the appropriate department, I can tell you they require approx. 40 captains to transfer and have so far received over 100 applications

Harry

[GoreTex]

its so funny they bitch but volunteer, just the junior guys keep bitching cos they won't get transferred anyway

[palm]

So funny indeed, going on the A380 is a mistake but some guys have just a TOOOOOO big ego I guess.

[fatbus]

Why is it a big mistake ? If all you want is a 777 rating then fine but have a look at the overall attrition . Go somewhere else now and don't waste your time here.

[palm]

Attrition ?? what are you talking about. Attrition rate in EK in below 1.5% apparently???:D:D:D

As for the 380, probably ok if you are doing your last 5 years in EK and have no plans to go somewhere else. Otherwise why would you go on the Super unless you have a size problem......:ok::ok:

[emratty]

The A380 is far from being a type rating that will not get you a job elsewhere. The whole Airbus family from from the A318 to the A380 are incredibly similar to operate hence the ability for MFF. If an A380 pilot wants to convert to the A320 the course is a matter of days.
There will be plenty of jobs advertised when the A350 comes along that will state "Airbus wide body experience required".
In my opinion the A380 is a far more useful type rating to have for these very reasons.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Your opinion is not supported. Ask any of the the 380 chaps who have applied for the numerous 330 jobs in the far east. For all of them, currency on the 330 is essential, currency on the 380 is meaningless.

[emratty]

So when the A350 gets delivered how are these companies going to get type rated people? The Chinese and Korean carries have strange rules and regulations including the medical which is far more detailed than the GCAA but I would have no interest in working for any of these I know enough people who have and would never go there if they had their time again..
I had an email from an agency 2 days ago wanting crew for an A340 operator and they were quite happy knowing I fly the 380 but have 6000 hours on the 330/340.
I am quite happy on the 380 the rosters are generally good with 3 or 4 trips a month that's not to say I like what is going on at the moment with the company.
I am not worried one little bit about not being current on a classic Airbus type.

[kingpost]

Emratty, just for your info, if you want to convert onto the A320 from the A380 you have to do a full course!!

[fatbus]

Palm, that's my point, attrition is low ie not many are leaving once they get a 777 rating so why is it a big mistake to go to the 380.

[Trader]

From the wash up recently. Attrition at 1.9% - higher than normal but still with the industry average. HR's words.

Not many leaving at the moment - and it is a mugs game to make predictions - but no doubt many interviewing at China Southern and many watching.

I think many are just staying on the 777 to keep options open. No intent to leave tomorrow but want the possibility to do so.

[Outatowner]

The figure is actually 49 "volunteered" to leave the 777 fold. Half of them are FOs who think you "have to be in it to win it".

Apparently a lot of capts changed their mind after discovering you need to be current on 777 if you want a job on it elsewhere which many people do seem to want.


PS: if you believe anything those embittered slags from HR have to say at a management meeting then let me introduce you to Ahmed, my cockney english finance friend at Devere and Co, he has some great funds to sell you.

[glofish]

How credible are your figures???

I would have thought that more were applying .... If the skippers number is in the high 20ies only, does that mean some guys will be forced?

[donpizmeov]

Gloie,


There are no FOs on the list. I am not sure of the numbers, but a fella who has applied was told that there were plenty.






The don

[glofish]

Thanks, don.

[donpizmeov]

Not sure it's a done deal yet. He was told it would start next Apr, and could be up to 75 Capts, if it goes ahead.

Who knows?

The don