Paying for an interview??

[Ricardo82]

Is it fairly normal to pay for an interview?
Not naming any names but i have applied for sponsorship and they charge around £150 for the interview.

:confused: :eek:

[PPRuNe Pop]

No it is not. In fact it is outrageous. If people stopped going for interviews with this company - they would stop.

I wish it were illegal. It is certainly a liberty in my view and should be stopped.

[ac100]

Please do not pay the money for an interview. They need you to operate their aircraft and therefore you should not be paying them for the privillage of having your skills on the flight deck. You have invested a great deal of time and money into your profession. Do not allow the possibility of flying for a airline suck you into this ridiculous practice of having to pay to obtain employment.

When will this stop!!!!! I beg all young aspiring aviators to please stop this madness. They need you not the other way around. Stick it out until you are able to work your way into the flight deck of a respectable airline that treats us all as professionals without having to pay for the anything other than your licences.

I strongly ask all aspiring pilots to consider what they are doing to the profession by paying for acceptance of applications, interviews or type ratings. You are destroying your own careers. All senior pilots have progressed to this point without having to pay for any of the above so you can too.

I strongly urge you all to tell this company, and any other, to shove it and be patient. these companies are taking advantage of young pilots who would do anything to be an airline pilot. Well, ladies and gentlemen, you are destroying your own careers and our profession by paying these fees.The market is picking up and you all will find work without having to take part in these absolutely stupid employment requirements.
AC100

[Fast Erect]

Here, Here.....
The most sensible post in ages.

BTW...is it the cheapskate bog-trotting airline you are reffering to?:D

[Stingray]

Everybody applying with this particular outfit should ask themselves: What does this tell you about the way you will be treated when hired?
Will this really be a desirable employer?

[STATLER]

ac100


Top post, I'm instructing at the moment and am absolutey desperate to get a go at the right hand seat, BUT im not desperate enough to pay for a job.

This plays straight into the hand of the beancounters,over time this practice will filter its way up the chain and start to affect pensions, pay, conditions and a whole lot of other things. So pay for the job today and you will pay all your life, if we all stick together and no one pays then what are they going to do? Start cancelling flights, I think not.

If you pay you are prostituting everything you have trained for, hang in there it will happen soon and hopefully these unscrupulous t*@t's will gets what coming.

Which one is it by the way because a few are at it?

[Lou Scannon]

Let us all have the name of this a***hole company so that we can ensure they get the credit they deserve. Is it the one that charge £50 to read a CV?

[mutt]

Lou, since when did Ryanair offer sponsorship???????

I'm sure that "whatever" company that it is would argue that if they were willing to invest x$$$ on training you, you should be willing to invest $150 on the interview?

I think that the real question should be, is this a reputable company and do you trust them?

Mutt.

PS, as you can guess, this keyboard doesnt have the UK pound symbol........

[TomPierce]

mutt, your argument in 'apparently' agreeing with the principal that an airline is justified in charging to read your CV, or for giving you an interview, is way off the mark. £200 total is hardly a matter that should concern them is it? Not with the cost of training at around £15k for a 737 rating its not.

It is another example of MO dragging every single penny from ANY direction he can. He is an accountant, and his particular kind will go to any lengths to make the books add up.

Just ask yourself this. Why would they want to charge for an interview? Why would they want to charge for reading a CV? A CV is takes two minutes at most, and most get binned. An interview is in their best interests, or a just cynical way of getting £150 hard earned quids. The motive is always money. Why. only MO knows. Their books are are well balanced - unless the figures he flaunts are a pack of lies of course!

[ac100]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

You have all read my post on what i think of the current situation of our profession. So i will not repeat myself. However, once again this is directed to all young aspiring aviators.

The world airlines have for a long time cried that pilots coming and leaving after obtaining type ratings as a huge factor to why they impose these ridiculous cost. So in their wisdom as business people they implemented fees for type ratings initially. Young pilots, not realising the future implecations, excepted the fees and progressed to airline positions. This then lead to fees being introduced for interviews and application acceptance.

As several pilots have pointed out, if a company is willing to treat you in such a manner at the beginning of your relationship woth them, How do you think they will treat you while you are employed by them. The fact that people leave airlines to acquire positions at other airlines is a direct reflection on the treatment of the employee by the employer. This is then a direct indication that these airlines were poor employers in the first place. If you pay and treat your employees with the respect and remunerate them according to their market value, they will not abandon you to find better employment.

Yes it is true that some aspire to fly heavier equipment and thus leave to experience that lifestyle, but they are a fraction of the pilot community.

We have been are worst enemies and it is not the senior aviators that will suffer!. We will have lived are lives the way you all intended to. Therefore, it is up to all you young aspiring pilots to turn this profession back to were it was 10 to 15 years ago and even before that. And the only way to achieve that is by stopping the practices of paying fees.

The airline companies can not blame you for THEIR FINANCIAL MISCONDUCT....so do not allow them to. Your futures are in your own hands ladies and gentlemen. Us old timers will have walked away without having to put up with this nonsense, but remember we did not allow it to become this way. All my peers have never paid for a type rating, interview or application acceptance. When it was thrust upon us we refused and it was put back in the briefcase by the beancounters. DO NOT SELL YOURSELF SHORT. YOU ARE ALL PROFESSIONALS and thus should be TREATED AS SUCH.

I hope this message hits home to all out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Thank you all for putting up with my thoughts.
AC100

[Don D Cake]

Paid around £150 for a sponsorship interview eh? Would that be exactly £147 perhaps????:confused:

[Lou Scannon]

We already set an enthusiasm test in requiring would be employees to attend an interview without any expenses.This fee is not charged for anything other that to squeeze money out of young people who can ill afford it.

It is a very sad comment on the business ethics of the management of the firm and you can bet your life that it will carry over to their other standards.

Second rate behaviour like this merits being treated as a second rate employer.

[steamchicken]

This man has absolutely no shame....so what is the union doing?

[Boss Raptor]

This has been a previous Pprune subject - it is actually illegal under English Employment Law (cant quote exactly which statute as we speak) to charge for an interview/consideration for any job...

Some years ago, about 16 I think, I applied for the then CSE Oxford/British Midland Sponsorship and was charged £25 for the priviledge...after being turned down I found out about the above statute and threatened them accordingly...and got my money back... :D

[Andi]

AC 100,

THX a lot 4 ur thoughts and advise.thought I was the only one
not willing to pay 4 an interwiev. BUT ,have 2 admit that I was stupid enough to pay 150 (lbs) for sending my CV to..RA.
Will not happen again.
THX again!!:(

[greatorex]

Raptor,

Now that you come to mention it, I'm pretty sure that you are right!

I had an ex-wife who used to work for an employment agency and I remember her saying the very same thing (hence the reason that employment agencies charge the Client commision rather than the candidate !!!

Surely, someone from the unions could do a little digging around on this one. . . . . . ? ? ? ?

[greatorex]

Having done a little digging around on the net. I came up with this:

Click Here (http://migration.ucc.ie/examiner/examiner19oct1.htm)

Not sure if it's of any relevance, but you never know?

[ac100]

Dear Andi,

You obviously acquired the right knowledge after your mistake, so do not punish yourself for doing it. However, make sure others in the same position as you learn and improve everyones lot in this profession. It will take a collective effort. I wish you all luck in your futures endeavours and i hope that all that i have said makes a difference in the progressions of your careers. You all deserve better treatment and career prospects. Safe Flying!!!.
Cheers.
AC100

[Firestorm]

I notice that FRs' policy of charging for interviews hasn't changed despite the boast on their banner advertising on Pprune that they have a requirement for 800 pilots.... And what was that profit they announced recently? Must have been all those pilot applications they recieved... :(

I also notice that they claim on their website that they will not persue applications from non-737 type rated applicants... Good luck to you MO'L - you might need that Irish luck! :mad:

[eltel]

When BA took over selected parts of DanAir in 1991,it imposed a 5% pay cut on what was then one of the lowest paid airlines in the country. Naturally, those subjected to this pay cut had to accept it as the alternative was to seek a job in a market which had just been enlarge by approx 500(ex DanAir) job seekers. What the bean counters and jam stealers never put into their finacial considertions was the resentment this engendered in those people. When you consider the post by " I am an army of one"
and realise that this mind set existed 10 years ago, the financial losses to a major airline far outweighed the short term benefits which accrued from their imposing the 5% pay cut, which in any case was rescinded a few years later and presented as a pay rise. Naturally this did not botherthe individual who had first sugested the imposition of the pay cut for he had moved on to to greater things , boosted by the fact that he had, on paper, achieved savings fervthe company.
With age comes wisdom, but very slowly!!!

[Agaricus bisporus]

While sympathising with the head PRuNers for needing advertising revenue it seems a shame to me that they continue to advertise this shameful company. Surely solidarity and a bit of Pilot's self-help could start with these sharks being dumped from our forum's advertising?

Then people could perhaps start concentrating on all the other horror stories we hear coming from the MO machine...

:(

[Carruthers]

Whats all this 'we are professionals and should not pay'? Airlines don't exist for the benefit of pilots. If the company can get away with this charge it will do so, only supply and demand will ultimately affect their behaviour not respect for a 'profession' for which their is precious little anyway.

[Fast Erect]

Carruthers.

You sound like a really nice bloke.

NOT:p

[Flintstone]

Fast Erect

Come away and play with someone else. Didn't your mum tell you that Carruthers is not a nice child?

Abused by his parents and envious of pilots. Makes you wonder why it hangs around here.;)

[ac100]

Dear Carruthers,

Directly replying to your post, Airlines exist because there are PROFESSIONAL PILOTS insuring the safety of their customers. If we did not exist nor would the airline. If you had read my post very carefully then you would have noted that i did not chastise airline companies for partaking in such practises. They are a business and will do anything to make a profit. My posts were aimed at upcoming young Professional pilots who can stop playing by the rules of these ridiculous companies and stop them from paying these fees. If no one pays, airlines will run out of applicants and then pilots. Which would then force them to rethink their hiring policies. So i am affraid you are replying to a subject you have very little knowledge about.

Pilots ARE professionals and that point is easily justified. You can not ask an individual from the street to jump in the flight deack of any aircraft and ask them to deliver 1 or 450 passengers from point A to B safely, if at all. This point is true of Lawyers, CEO's and management staff of any corporation all of who are considered professionals. No individual without proper training or experience would be able to competently do their job, thus the people possessing such skills in these positions are consider professionals.

ALL pilots are professionals and thus desire the respect which is due to them. So dear carruthers next time you are on board an aircraft, make the realisation that the individuals in control of that flight (the professional flight crew) have your life in their hands, so a little respect is what they command from you.
Cheers,
AC100.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

£15,000 cost for a type rating, 300 people send in £50 with a CV, 100 people pay £150 for interview, 2 free sim courses for the airline.

[Carruthers]

AC100 Restaurants wouldn't exist without cooks or Bordellos without whores. Do me a favour, you are not above the laws of supply and demand, your skills are not particularly rare or obviously held in much regard. Train drivers are also responsible for their passengers’ lives, usually more than you.

[BlueEagle]

At least fifteen years ago I answered an advert in Flight International, by a Canadian agency, for type rated B737 pilots.
Heard no more from the agency but a few weeks later received the full application form for South West Airlines and they required either $20 or $40 to process it!!!

Things haven't changed much.

[ac100]

Dear Carruthers,

You show how limited your knowledge of the business world and lack of awarness of how professionals are deemed professionals. To begin with, train drivers and chefs at restuarants, to my knowledge, do not pay for the privillage of having their C.V's reviewed or obtaining an interview. I certainly have not heard of any ladies of the night having to pay their customers to consider their services or have sex with them.

Your limited knowledge of anything keeps refering you to "supply and demand". Well my misinformed and bitter friend you will have to find some better arguments in order to rattle my cage or any other professional pilots, who you seem to keep putting down.

No disrespect intended to train drivers, but keeping a train on a set of railway tracks from London to Glasgow does not require the amount of training as ia pilot requires to operate an aircraft from point A to B. The simply fact is that airlines need professionl pilots"demand" and there are quailified professional pilots out there"supply" but in no other profession, yet, have young inexperienced individuals have been willing to pay to get a job. In the process they are laying the foundation for mistreatment and lack of respect from their employer in the future.

So i will make this one last attempt of allowing you to read and understand that your arguement of "supply and demand" is a weak one. But you seem to have made a name for yourself on this forum board as the last couple of post indicate and i guess your trying to live up to your name. Goodluck to you.
AC100

[C Montgomery Burns]

To be fair to MO'L, the £50 fee is to deter time-wasters from applying. In a previous life, I was part of a team given responsibility for sorting out applicants resulting from a series of ads we had in FI. We received over 10,000 applications and sent out plenty of documentation (at around a fiver a pack), but I reckon a good 95% of those were either not returned or returned by completely unsuitable people just chancing it despite what it said in the ad and again in the pack. Out of the 100 or so viable people we ended up giving 7 jobs if my memory serves me right.

If we had charged £50 'processing fee' you can bet your bottom dollar that the vast majority of the 9,500 timewasters wouldn't have applied ... and those that did would have covered the expenses of doing so.

[lemon]

ac100

I don't think that encouraging young (or old for that matter) aspiring flight deck crew to tell airlines that ask them to pay for interview where to go and to sit it out is going to help them very much. I agree that it is a greedy way of making money but if it needs to be done, do it I say.

If you sit it out, say what, another year (market's picking up alright, but not that quickly) and then apply to some airline - one of the main things they'll ask is, well what have you done for the past year. And what you've done is not apply to an airline for the sake of a few quid and possibly missed out on a job. I'm not saying that paying for an interview will get you the job, you have to do that in the interview - but not paying for it will gaurantee that you don't get the job. It's a risk to take. If you want a job, take it.

And anyway - wasn't the original question of this post referring to Malgus?

[ac100]

Dear Lemon,

I understand your point of view and i agree that an individuals past employment record will be discussed in an interview. But i have to state the fact that respectable airlines look at the whole package. I know several individuals who were out of currency for a year and a half after their pervious employer went bankrupt and were employed by one of the top ten airlines in the world at the time. the are still there.

the question is one of patience. My whole arguement is based on the fact that on other professional group has such practice. This then leads to the fact that airlines knowing that their employees are willing to go to these lengths will then inevitably treat their employees with the same disrespect and mistreament as they started with. Once again i can not hold the airline management responsible, they are a business and will try anything to make money. However it should not be done at are expense of pilots especially when we don't even work for them.

Eventually aspiring pilots, young or old, will get hired and be treated with the respect they deserve. As i have said in my previous post....I do not suffer, as i have established myself in this profession, and done so by not having take advantage of me i might add, the people who will suffer is the aspiring pilots themselves. They have there whole careers ahead of them and they are laying the foundation of mistreatment and disrespect for themselves. You will get jobs it is just a matter of time. Be patience and get what you deserve. Cheers
AC100

[lemon]

I take your point in that patience will be rewarded but in this industry patience sees other people getting jobs while you're being patient (and I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about aspiring pilots with frozen ATPL's).

And I'm OK - I have a job and no, I didn't pay for the interview.

[Flintstone]

A most reasonable series of posts from ac100. Why can't people see that paying money to the likes of Ryanair is the thin end of the wedge?

Sadly there are some out there who will degrade our profession to achieve their own selfish aims.

Having said that, I'd still rather be a pilot than a bitter wannabee making a fool of myself in a forum such as this.

[Seriph]

If you have to keep demanding respect and to be treated like a professional then I suspect that neither is forthcoming. Professions such as medicine law etc don't run vitriolic forums such as this, don't have to demand respect, don't have to pay for CV's to be processed. They have professional associations and bodies and are self regulating, we have trade unions!! Need I say more. I consider it extremely smug to say I'm OK Jack but you have patience and don't pay for it belittles my 'profession'.

[ac100]

Dear Seriph,

You are absolutely correct in saying that other professional bodies regulate themselves and thus do not allow such practices as you and i have mentioned from taking place.

Once again, people reading these forums do not take the time to read each post carefully before forming their opinions on the subject presented. You mention the smugness of, i am assuming, my post. Well, it was clearly stated that if aspiring pilots continue on the path they are, they will be the ones effected by the lack of respect and mistreatments by their employer in the future. I have nothing personally to gain by speaking my mind on the matter.

Aspiring pilots out there deserve better. By continuing to allow employers to treat them this way will make their life less enjoyable.

I am not demanding respect or treatment as a professional. The company i work for has that aspect covered very well. In fact, every company i have worked for has given myself and my colleagues the treatment they deserved as porfessionals. I hope to stir enough self respect amoungest aspiring pilots so that their lives are as enjoyable as mine has been in this profession. I have nothing to gain by saying all that i have. I have also been in the situation where i was not working and needed to pay bills at home etc, but i did not go out and pay for a job. I have been there as all aspiring pilots have and we have all got through it. As all aspiring pilots will. I would not suggested something if i had not done it or if i was not willing to do myself.

It is a shame that people are not reading but speaking without cause or positive replies. I see that the industry is filling up with very negative thoughts. Mostly aimed at fellow pilots and not the gulity parties. I wish you all luck in your future endeavours as i will now refrain from posting on this forum. My posts on this subject have been quite clear. They have only been put there to encourage and improve the future treatment of future aviators. I not willing to partake in this deluge of negative comments on this forum...incredebly counter productive. Cheers
AC100

[VFE]

It will not be long before I'm in the position of applying for jobs and have to say I'd never pay for an interview and the sooner these airlines are stopped the better. I blame the applicants for this situation. Why pay it? It is a pi$$ take of the highest order and just goes to show that some people would do anything to get in the right hand seat. I dare say some might even "drop 'em" for the recruitment team if they knew a job would be waiting. Sort it out!

VFE. :mad:

[Clio Toros]

Well VFE you have a choice, sit on your principles or get a job. The pay will quickly refund your costs. Why does everyone see this as yet another tilt at the 'prestige and standing' of pilots? Everything is so personal, I think you'll find that Mr O Leary et al have more important matters in mind than the fragile ego's of pilots. They are running the business, and if they can weed out serious applications in this way and meet their targets then they will do so.

[touch&go]

From what I read isn't the CTC scheme the same thing, you pay loads the get an interview, or am I wrong, what is the CTC thing that is been talked about?.

[AMEX]

....Well VFE you have a choice, sit on your principles or get a job...
Sorry but the number of people who have paid to have an interview in the industry are a minority. So how did the other do in order to get a job then ? I am very curious Clio Toros so perhaps you could display some of your knowledge and enlighten us all ;)

Never paid, never will (not talking about my speeding tickets)

[Seriph]

Surely if you don't want to pay go elsewhere! NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING, AIRLINES DO NOT EXIST FOR THE BENEFIT OR CAREER PROSPECTS OF PILOTS. Sit on your principles, someone else can take the job, if there are no takers then obviously Mr O Leary will have to change his policies, we shall see won't we.

[AMEX]

...Surely if you don't want to pay go elsewhere! ....
Quite right Seriph but it wasn't the point because that's exactly what the like minded do/will do.

I agree that no one owes anyone anything and that's why the 50 quids will be wasted for most of the applicants. It doesn't garantee you a job, let alone an interview.
....if there are no takers then obviously Mr O Leary will have to change his policies, we shall see won't we....
Pointless, I have already won and so has he simply because I won't apply, so he won't get my £££. Then again someone else (you ?) will and he will get the dosh. Fantastic!! Everyone is a winner :D so don't change a thing for me, thank you very much.

We are all free to believe in one thing or another (what you refer to as principles), so keep doing what you do best and so will I.

Good luck!

Over and Out

[Seriph]

Sorry Amex, did'nt understand a word of that.

[biped]

Sorry to have so many opinions for a new boy! But I see a lot to comment on.

Clio Toros. I don't think it's about a blow to the prestige of pilots. I don't think it's to weed out the non serious (????) applications. I think it's a disgusting way to leech yet more money out of vulnerable individuals and should not be tolerated.

I personally am not a member of a union. If I was however (and prob 30 will be soon) I would expect the union to pronounce an employment ban on any companies that engaged in the practice of charging to read CVs.

Up the workers!

[Clio Toros]

Your entry says it all Biped. Airlines are responsible for protecting 'vulnerable' pilots, existing for their benefit, keeping them in their privileged and cosseted positions? And if they don't then you expect a trade union to wield a big stick. Well they can't, how RA is run is none of their business. The effectiveness of union action in placing recruitment bans is evidently nil.

[Tosh McCaber]

As a matter of interest, which other airlines, besides RyanAir, ask for payment for an interview?

[VFE]

I'll sit on my principles for this one Clio Toros. :D

Sure there are folks who will pay the £50 but I will not. There are plenty of other airlines around so I don't think it is a case of cutting my nose off to spite my face either. To cough up the cash to get the licence is a big enough expenditure in my book. This airline shows itself up as being very cunning with this crafty move of theirs. They know that it's money, money, money all the way to the RHS and are taking advantage. Simple as that. If you think this is acceptable then thy name is sucker!

The shame of it. :o

VFE.

[VFE]

Oh and another thing Clio Toros, what in the name of Hades has an employment scam got to do with so called pilot ego's? Talking rubbish mate - sorry but you are! It wouldn't happen in any other industry so why allow it into aviation?

[Clio Toros]

Seems to have dented your ego dearie. What's the big deal? Obviously Mr O Leary will charge if he can get away with it so go elsewhere. Getting into the rhs may be expensive but so are lots of other qualifications with much poorer returns.

[VFE]

Indeed Clio my old dearie! But those who obtain those qualifications you talk of do not have to pay for an interview - which is the whole point I am trying to make out for you.

Anyway, pay the dosh and do whatever you want to do but when you grow up you will realise there are such things as principles.

Good luck,

VFE.

PS: Must say that had I started on the road to obtaining my qualifications there was (in theory) a situation where every airline was charging money to apply for an interview I would never had started the training.
I love flying and am sure I can offer something benificial to the industry but things like this are beyond my scope of what is right. Sorry.

PPS: I just knew you were going to make a reference to my ego mate! Sooooo predictable I wish I'd laid a bet with someone now! ;)

[Seriph]

Interesting that your choice of career is dependant upon having to pay for an interview VFE. Few company's refund expenses incurred in attending an interview, in principle where is the difference? I'd stick to weekend aviating if I were you.

[VFE]

OK maybe that was a bit over the top but I think there is quite a difference in paying £50 for mearly a chance to get an interview and having travel expenses when finally called to one.

[contraxdog]

I am very confused at the moment, I thought Ryanair was of Irish origin, but to me it looks like they havea very Scottish way about them. I am only a contract whore in Africa but when I heard about them charging 50 quid to read one's CV and one have to pay for everything after that to enable one to fly for them, I thought this was a new Irish joke!
I just hope African airlines dont get to hear about this rediculous practise because they will be peeved at not thinking of it first. I am willing to bet that they wil make the amount far more worth their while than £50. They will most probably better RA on the salary structure as well, as in you will have to pay them for flying for them for at least 3 years at a Captains pay, then 2 years at FO's pay, then you will be allowed to fly for free, for at least another 2.
My humble opinion is that if you have the inclination to pay RA to read your CV they are welcome to you. I hope it will be a fruitfull relationship as far as they are conscerned

..the time has come the walrus said to speak of many things........

th olde contrax dog

[mutt]

The concept of having people pay "application fees" isnt a new Irish joke but an old American one. Looking through a copy of FAPA 1992 Magazine the following fees applied:

Alaska =$25
America West = $15
Southwest = $10
US Air = $25

Remember that this was just after the Gulf War when there was a glut of pilots, I dont know if these fees were still in force last summer when the situation was reversed.

Mutt.

[biped]

Clio Toros. Airlines cannot exist without pilots! Yet they find themselves in a position of power and exploit it! Because people tolerate it!

And as for me expecting unions to wield a big stick: united we stand. Divided we fall!

Up the workers!

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
Somebody asked how many other "professionals" have to cough up to get a job? Surely,when a young doctor or solicitor or lawyer has to come up with "Hello money" to get a slot in a practise,then this equates to the Ryanair scene. As someone has said,it's been the practise for years in the States and it will surely gain ground here,too.Unfortunately,it leaves newly-qualified(and newly-broke) guys like me out on a limb.It's nasty but,from what I hear,guys are finding the money and going onto that right-hand seat. We don't have the extensive third-level operator system that the Yanks have,where their pilots are traditionally sourced from.
As for Unions,they are a waste of space if you are a newly-minted bod.
regards
TDD