Preparing for an Exam

[Usernames]

I arrived in Greece a few days ago, for my ATPL Exams. I started off with IFR and VFR Comms, as well as HPL. They went well.
Tomorrow i plan on taking Ops Procedures. I've spent the whole day studying and managed to do around 1 000 questions. Inclusive in this were 8 "Simulated Exams" on the Bristol questionbank. I scored 84, 89, 87, 91, 82, 96, 89, 93 for them. Somehow i still feel a bit unsettled.
If i remember correctly the simulated exam on Bristol tries to replicate the CAA's method of examination ie. certain amounts of questions from each topic/section within a subject.
The exams i'm doing are electronic, and i'm not sure if they follow this setup.

I'm hoping that someone with some experience in taking electronic exams can confirm or deny that they do. Or even better if someone that has previously taken exams with the Hellenic CAA can confirm or deny this.

If i look at the grades i've been getting i shouldn't be feeling this unsettled, but i still am for some reason or another.

Thanks in advance.

[Dash8driver1312]

If you've studied the subject deeply enough instead of chasing question banks, you wouldn't be feeling that unsettled.

[speed_alive_rotate]

I'm afraid because of the shambles of ATPLs in general and the way they are written and asked, if you want a good grade you need to know the question banks off by heart and then any extra info you are able to get in the other study time you have. They are a poor poor representation for such a highly respected industry, I don't know how they haven't been overhauled at this stage!!!

[paco]

It is true that you won't pass the exams on knowledge alone - you need at least to get acquainted with the very poor standard of questions, and in that respect the commercial databases have a part to play.

There is a breakdown on subjects within a subject and the exams should follow that, but I don't know if Greece is using the same software as the UK CAA, where it certainly happens.

There are two aspects to taking the exams - having the knowledge and mental preparedness. Don't take the exams until you have both.

Phil

[Meikleour]

The present generation does not seem to realise that if you LEARN the subject then you will never have any problem answering any questions!!

I put it all down to american inspired multiple choice exams.

[speed_alive_rotate]

People who have LEARNED the subject back to front have actually failed because of the way the exams are written and the " american inspired multiple choice" way of asking them. The exams are poorly written and in some cases translated from another language ie German into English and don't even translate accurately!! I think the fear of students sitting ATPLs now makes them learn question banks, its not all laziness! Its cheaper to do exams this way so Aviation bodies don't care and wont change the system. Would it not make more sense to get a written exam for example in AGK with something like -Turbine engines explain how they work and their functions etc. It would but the cost to correct such exams would eat into the profits of these Aviation bodies!!!!!!

[paco]

"The present generation does not seem to realise that if you LEARN the subject then you will never have any problem answering any questions!!"

That's OK if you can trust the questions! Not to mention the abysmal Learning Objectives (don't get me started)! This is for the EIR/CBIR:

"Describe and compare the following two types of vertical speed indicators: — barometric type — inertial type (inertial information provided by an Inertial Reference Unit)"

I'm sure they are referring to the other name for an IVSI! :)

The schools are pretty much guessing what to teach at the moment.

Phil

[cumbrianboy]

Surely it's a balance. I think if you rely on the question bank alone then good luck if you ever make it to a technical interview with a training captain.

Likewise if you only study the material, then the exam is not the time to start to decipher the sometimes curious way in which the questionss are asked.

Personally I'd say learn the material fully from the books and first principles. Be able to talk about each subject and have a good understanding of it. and then start the questions. If you get an answer wrong don't just learn the right answer but be able to explain why the answer is correct and also understand why you chose what you did and why it is wrong.

If you can do that, then even if they throw new questions at you at least you'll know how they are asked and have a method for being able to answer them correctly and accurately.

Why did you chose Greece?

[speed_alive_rotate]

@cumbrianboy You are talking absolute sense, however that is in an ideal world. I have to admit I learnt the question bank and then on top of that made notes and studied any extra material I had time too. I passed all 14 first time 91% average. And I can say without a shadow of a doubt it was more down to the question banks.
@paco excellent point, and from talking to some of my past ATPL instructors they are exactly what you said trying to guess what to teach.
You do what you have to just to get through these poor exams, if you don't re study the material "properly" and know all your subjects inside out prior to a tech interview then that is a huge mistake and you would only have yourself to blame. As I mentioned above would it not be more productive for the tests to be based around such interviews. Give you topics and let you discuss, you would then find out very fast who really knew their stuff!!

[Meikleour]

There seems to be a view on this thread that the ATPL exams are simply a "hurdle" to be passed before getting on with the job. Thus the approach of question bank cramming has a logic to it, and boasting about pass marks may or may not tell much about true understanding - HOWEVER much of the info learned has practical applications! The " shallowness" of this approach to aviation knowledge has been very obvious these last 10 years.

So, just remember, job interviews may be conducted by "old school types" who do know the subjects and who will quickly expose shallow understanding!

[speed_alive_rotate]

@Meikleour if you are referring to my comments may I suggest you go back and read my post correctly. No 1. I wasn't boasting, merely proving my point as to the poor set up of the exams and how a high mark can be achieved,never did I say it was the right way, but it was my "personal" experience.
No. 2. I clearly stated that prior to undertaking a tech interview you should know all your ATPL subjects bk to front so regardless who interviews you, and no matter what the question you should be well prepared to answer it.
And the sad truth of the matter is because they are so badly put together yes they have "become" a hurdle to get through, which I strongly disagree with, that is my whole point. They should be preparing us for all aspects of our future careers and interviews sadly in my opinion I think they fall extremely short. Do you think any other highly respected industry would behave in such a way towards their exams??
And you also cant blame students for covering all their bases with question banks etc when you have the likes of Flybe only accepting students with a 90% average or above for interview.

[Usernames]

@cumbrianboy This is what i've been doing (or trying).
I was meant to take my ATPL exams about 2 months ago, but i chose to postpone for a very simple reason. I worked through the books my school provided. I felt like i knew and understood the work well, but doing simulated tests on Bristol yielded very poor results. I either passed by a few marks, or i would fall just short. The way some of the questions are asked left me feeling rather confused and i felt like in most cases having the ability to argument a point means very little when your answer has to be a choice of 4 options given.
So i basically decided to stick to the questionbank for the remainder of the time. Within a week of studying the questionbank my marks went up by at least 10%. Right now, fr the subjects i've prepared for, i should be able to get anywhere from 85 - 95 depending on the questions i get. But an average of 90 is realistic.
If i get an answer wrong and i don't understand/know why i got it wrong, i'll look at the description and/or do some extra research on the question. If i'm still confused and/or unsure after that, i'll rely purely on recognition. Some of the answers are asked in such a way that no matter how i look at it, how much i prepare for it, or how much i know about it, they're still confusing purely because of the way they're asked.
English isn't my native tongue, but i speak it just as well. And i've realised that the way some of these questions are asked are just grammatically poor and make understanding them a challenge in and of its own.

Chances are if i ever get to an interview with my knowledge based on questionbank learning i'll have a hard time. Unless the interviewer gives me an a, b, c, or d to choose from, i'll sit there with nothing to say. But that's why you prepare for an interview. I feel like i utilize my limited time a lot better by doing ~1200 questions a day and memorizing the answers even though in the long run it's going to give me very little advantage. Rather than working through a book two or three times, knowing everything there is to know, but failing because of a poorly asked question.

As for why i chose Greece. Financially and logistically it's the most convenient for me right now. I probably won't do my CPL here, though.