dreamlifter

[TOWTEAMBASE]

What Boeing parts are made in barden barden? Just seen the LCF come across Southend from there. Thought most Boeing parts were US made? Maybe it's the raw materials

[G-ARZG]

Grottaglie, Italy a regular port-of-call for LCF to collect 787 fuselage sections
made there by Alenia

[tdracer]

I don't know where 'barden barden' is (and a google search didn't help). But as G-ARZG notes, some of the 787 fuselage sections are made in Italy, while the wing comes from Japan. The Dreamlifter (aka Large Cargo Freighter or LCF) isn't used for raw materials - just completed aircraft sections. With 787 production at 10/month, and an average of at least 3 LCF round trips to deliver the pieces to build a 787, the 4 LCFs are staying quite busy.

[ion_berkley]

barden barden

Baden-Baden perhaps?

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Ah I see, thanks guys. Sure is a funny looking animal

[Una Due Tfc]

Are they owned by Boeing or Atlas air? They've always used Atlas' callsign (Giant) whenever they've been through my sector

[Talon757]

The LCF aircraft are owned by Boeing and operated by Atlas Air. It is an ungainly looking thing. The LCF is a common type rating with the 747-400 and other than having Pratt engines and operating in pounds as opposed to Kilograms it flies just like our other -400s. It does cruise a little slower and there is a constant low background vibration that's absent on the other models. There is no APU, the tail swings open to load and unload, the massive cargo area is unpressurized (although heated) and the pressure bulkhead is just aft of the galley.

[G-ARZG]

T757, most interesting. Prune at its best !

[tdracer]

I was working at Boeing Field when the first LCF was being flight tested - at that time they hadn't bother to paint it yet - so most of it was bare aluminum with that puke green preservative coating. Probably the ugliest airplane of all time (saving the A380 from that distinction :}). They look a whole lot better painted, but still something only a mother could love :E.
I've often said that they should have painted it in an Orca white/black pattern and called it "Shamu" - might have even gotten some sponsorship from Sea World :E

[TOWTEAMBASE]

That was airbus trick, naming their aircraft after a whale. That's an ugly mo fo too. So it the LCF has no APU,does it use an Airstart for every departure ?

[tdracer]

So it the LCF has no APU,does it use an Airstart for every departure ?


Ground cart... Turns out we had some pretty lousy ground carts at Boeing Field - we got several complaints during the flight testing that autostart didn't work - turned out the ground carts were so weak that N2 spooled up so slow it was tripping the 'sheared starter shaft' autostart logic :ugh:


They got rid of the APU because no one was comfortable with running a fuel line through the hinges (the flight controls were bad enough).

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Yeah I can see their point. And as for de-icing, it comes with it's own rules too. It's a very clever design though, I'd like to see her up close

[IBMJunkman]

Saving people Googling labor.

Boeing Dreamlifter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Dreamlifter)

Boeing 747 LCF - Dream Lifter - YouTube (http://youtu.be/nj1l5y2g2AU)

Boeing: 747 Dreamlifter Image Gallery (http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/787family/dreamlifter.page)

Boeing: Boeing 747 Dreamlifter Fact Sheet (http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/787family/dreamlifter_fact.page)

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Wonder why it was never offered as a production model. ?

[MarkerInbound]

How much demand is there to move very oversize freight? Plus it needs some special ground equipment to swing the tail. No one is going to want to buy that equipment only to have it sit a year between flights.

[tdracer]

What Marker said :)

Plus, what Boeing did to build the LCFs was buy back some well used 747-400s (passenger models) and sent them to Taiwan (I think, not absolutely positive) where the actual conversion was done. The work was done to Boeing drawings and engineering, but aside from a few managers and inspectors, the conversion work was done by the contractors.
In addition, the design itself was less than elegant - for example that big pressure bulkhead in front of the cargo section is basically just a big flat plate of aluminum - not the usual dome shape used for pressure bulkheads.
Also, the LCF was certified to a special purpose STC which is less rigorous than a full blown Amended Type Cert that would have been required for a production airplane.

Originally they were going to build 3 LCFs, but that was for a 7/month production rate - when it was decided to increased the production rate to 10/month based on the popularity of the 787, it was decided to build a fourth LCF. There was some serious lobbying going on a few years ago to build a fifth while we had the chance, but they couldn't get the bean counters to go along with it.
I'm sure there are some Boeing managers who's worse nightmare is that an LCF is seriously damaged (or worse) and out of service for an extended period - that would really throw the proverbial monkey wrench in the 787 production.

[galaxy flyer]

Curious question, when they open the tail door, what is the height x width dimensions of the LCF? I flew the C-5, for comparison.

GF

[WhaleDriver]

I would have to do some digging, but being an ex-C-5 guy, the Dreamlifter feels bigger inside (much taller) and you don't have the center door, pressure door or the troop compartment floor limitations to deal with. Remember, there is air conditioning in the cargo area but no pressurization. No checking the cargo inflight. We have a camera system for that.

[grounded27]

Ground cart... Turns out we had some pretty lousy ground carts at Boeing Field - we got several complaints during the flight testing that autostart didn't work - turned out the ground carts were so weak that N2 spooled up so slow it was tripping the 'sheared starter shaft' autostart logic :ugh:

The PW4000 usually requires 2 air carts to meet a healthy n2 for start, might light off a slow almost hung start from min motor with one cart. Diverted once in an MD-11 with 4062's on it, APU out took 30 minuted arguing with the airport authority to allow a hot refuel with #2 running.

[MarkerInbound]

It's the same 16 foot wide floor that balloons out to about 20 feet wide. Looking at the grid on the pressure bulkhead I'd say it's also about 20 feet high. Which makes sense if you're carrying a cylinder.

[tdracer]

Can't find anything that gives the interior (or exterior) dimensions of the LCF cargo bay, but the 787 fuselage is just shy of 19 ft. in diameter - given clearance and the GSE that the fuselage sits on I'd say at least 20 ft. of internal clearance. Wings as shipped are right at 100 ft. long, so that should ballpark it...

[CAO]

The video link below shows some footage (interviews with Boeing managers), and might provide some perspective...

Boeing 747 Dreamlifter - YouTube

As for interior volume, carrying wing and fuselage sections of the 787, there is a scant few inches on the top and sides when the loading system puts the cargo in the belly of the beast.

Another great video (excuse the drama provided by the very enthusiastic BBC reporter!!)...but factually, very correct.

BBC News - The 'pregnant plane' that can give birth to a new 787 (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20399859)

[Intruder]

From the WBM:

Max fuselage width 23'8"
Main deck floor 126'10" long
Main deck usable cargo volume 65,000 cu ft.

Swingtail door opening:
270" max width
199.8" wide at floor
274" high