Tiger Moth ailerons

[W84me]

Hello all,

Can anybody that flies the tiger moth explain this to me ?

If I roll full left or right instead of one aileron going up and the other down. One will go up and the other goes down a little than back to netural. Does this have something to do with the little disk under the bottom wing that push/pulls the ailerons up and down ?

I hope i have not confused anyone. Thanks in advance:)

[Feather #3]

Firstly, it's the little disk that does the work.

Secondly, the effect you describe is to cut down aileron drag. If you simply apply full aileron in flight, without using any rudder, you'd be shocked to find that the nose of the a/c swings AWAY from the aileron input. This is caused by the downgoing aileron producing more drag than lift on the wing you're trying to lift.

So, if we give full deflection to the upgoing aileron, an initial bit of lift to the upgoing wing, but cut out that lift before it gets too draggy, then PRESTO, with a bit [lots??] of help from the rudder, we can have a balanced turn.

OTOH, if this is too big a problem, buy a Stampe [I can't believe I said that!? :eek: ]

Hope that helps a bit.

G'day ;)

[W84me]

Thank you very much for that. I have 6 hours in the moth now and after flying modern day aircraft. I am having to work on that rudder in the turns.

Thanks again:)

[Feather #3]

Not just the turns.

In case you weren't shown; keeping the nose pointed at a spot on the horizon, slow to min speed and accelerate with say 2,000rpm continuous. Note how you have to vary the rudder all the time to stay straight.

Cross countries show how well you fly; just watch the iAS variation if you don't keep the a/c spot on with 1,900rpm on.

The Tiger - easy to fly, but difficult to fly well!! ;)

G'day :)

[Skylark4]

W84ME
You should have learned to fly gliders before converting to power.

I used to fly an Olympia 419 with enormous,(and very heavy) laminar flow wings, I think it was 19 metres. The aileron drag on that was so bad that the approved way to get it into a thermal turn was to kick in full rudder into the turn and full aileron out of the turn. This would start the aircraft turning and the crossed controls seemed to cancel out in the roll plane, you only held it for a second or two. Once the turn had started you fed in the appropriate amount of aileron for the turn. Once established it was fine.
That aircraft was the one that John Williamson flew in competition when it was the hot ship of its day.
I now fly a Skylark 4, similar in some respects and of a similar vintage. Some of us never progress.

Mike W

[Dan Winterland]

Skylark 4 I remember the 'Ollybomber'. Possibly one of the worst aircraft I've ever flown - along with a lot of other gliders of that vintage. Skylark 4 was OK, and I used to fly a Dart 17R which was alright - apart from it's un-nerving tendancy to spin thanks to 17M wings with no washout.

[Skylark4]

Dan W
I was there when Pete Dawson spun in at Bannerdown in a Dart. He was not the only one to be killed with that particular nasty trick. Not a very acceptable vice for a glider.

Mike W

P.S. I have great trouble getting the Skylark 4 to spin at all. Have to really work at it and she recovers into a spiral dive no matter what I do. I do weigh about 200 lb./90 kg mind.

[Bart Bandy]

Hi there Tiger driver. If you get to fly other types of the same vintage and class you'll get the same effect. I apologise if I'm wrong but I guess you have learned to fly on modern all metal aeroplanes within the last twenty years or so. I'm rather surprised your instructor didn' t explain about the causes of the handling quirk. Its known as adverse yaw effect.Try and get your hands on a Hornet Moth, a true gentlemans aerial conveyance.
Just as a bit of anorak trivia when you do your walk round you may well notice that more grease has oozed out of the middle aileron hinge than the other two. Dh designed the Tiger for the private market with two aileron hinges but when the RAF ordered it as a trainer their 'experts' decreed that the ailerons were not secure enough and insisted that a third hinge be added so Dh put one more in the middle.Rather than mess about all civlian models were then built the same way.The centre hinge always wears out faster than the others 'cos it doesn't need to be there !
Does your aeroplane have anti spin strakes in front of the tailplane?It probably does, more useless trivia to follow.

[Feather #3]

BB,

You're dead right about the Hornet Moth. Had a brief drive last weekend. Very impressed.

However, you'll find anti-spin strakes a rarety in Australia. We, apparently, haven't had the same range of problems as the UK in this regard.

G'day :)

[foxmoth]

Anti spin strakes were an RAF mod after spinning problems with bomb racks fitted, not often fitted these days! As far as having these problems in Aus goes, I believe the CAA restrictions were brought in after a problem spinning a tiger in Aus. (memory could be wrong on this- but how I recall it). CAA had obviously not LOOKED at the reasons for spin strakes as these aircraft were allowed back spinning/aeros well before the others.
As far as a gentlemans aircraft goes, if you think the Hornet is nice, try the Leopard Moth, even nicer! ;) :)

[TeeS]

Mention of the Hornet Moth Brought back some old memories for me. My Old Man was a pilot with British Eagle and helped run the British Eagle flying club based at Blackbush. The club operated an Auster registration GAPCY and a Hornet Moth the registration of which I can no longer remember. I believe the Hornet was destroyed in an accident during a third attempt at landing in a crosswind. Memories of an eight year old consist of sitting in the back while it was hand swung, if it failed to start after a few swings then they used to open the cowling and hit something on the engine very hard with a hammer, it would then start O.K. (I think it was the magneto!)

[Low-Pass]

Sounds like the mags. Don't have to do it these days with "Slick Mags" fitted...which take away some of the worry for joyflight passagers when the engine doesn't seem to want to start.

[Low-Pass]

Sounds like the mags. Don't have to do it these days with "Slick Mags" fitted...which take away some of the worry for joyflight passagers when the engine doesn't seem to want to start.

[Jhieminga]

Did you ever see the tailplane modification that the Dutch CAA had installed on the Tiger? Looked like it was designed by a three year old! There is still one Tiger flying around the Netherlands with this tail.