Cheapest way to keep ATPL exams from expiring

[Proximity]

I currently hold a FAA ATP and I did the EASA ATPL exams with the intention of converting my license. However, in order to take a skill test for the ATPL, I need to be current in a type and have 500 hours total time on type.

My problem is that the type I am current on I don't have 500 hours, and I won't have it before January when my exams expire. Rather than spending over 20k USD to get current again in an old type, is there a better way to keep my exams from expiring? Can I just do an single engine IR conversion (15 hour course) and then take the ATPL skill test later when I have 500 hours on type?

[ifitaintboeing]

FCL.025(c) has the answer:

(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:

(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter's type rating entered in that licence.

It does not specify SEP IR/MEP IR/Type Rating inc IR, therefore a IR-SPA-SE would qualify.

To go the route you are suggesting you will need an EASA licence in the first instance (PPL will do) and a current FAA IR. You can then convert your FAA IR to a EASA IR via the agreement in Information Notice 2014/129 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/InformationNotice2014129.pdf) which states training as required plus a IR skill test.

[Linda Mollison]

Information Notice IN2013-098 has reverted to the old (and sensible) way of doing things. If you keep an ICAO IR current this keeps your EASA ATPL ground credits current, i.e. you don't lose the credits after 7 years.

[ifitaintboeing]

Linda,

That Information Notice is not applicable for this gentleman as he's never held a UK or EASA IR.

IN2013-098 applies to "... the Requirements to Renew an Instrument Rating that has lapsed by more than seven years"

To make use of these provisions, pilots must comply with the Part-FCL requirements as specified in 2.4 and 2.5 above and apply to the CAA for the renewal of the Instrument Rating previously held on their CAA-issued licence. The application must include:

(a) evidence of having passed the skill test;

and

(b) evidence of holding or having held, within the 7 years prior to application a valid ICAO-compliant IR, or a valid unrestricted UK military Green instrument rating.

[Linda Mollison]

ifitaint...

You are of course correct - I did not read the first post correctly.

However, he will need to do get a CPL issued as well as an IR before the 36 months are up.

CAP 804 Section 1 Part D

8.1 Failure to comply with Acceptance Period

If a CPL and IR are not granted within the 36 month acceptance period then the ATPL theory credit will lapse. Candidates will be required to re-pass all ATPL theoretical knowledge examinations to regain ATPL theory credit.

[ifitaintboeing]

Linda,

I think CAP 804 Section 1 Part D assumes an ab-initio applicant, which is not the case here. Obtaining the IR "locks in" the ATPL exams for issue of a ATPL (not CPL) for 7 years thereafter, see FCL.025(c)(2), but he will need a licence to put the IR onto.

Given the content of FCL.025 (rather than the verbiage in CAP 804), because he is ultimately going for a ATPL (thus no need to obtain a CPL), then FCL.025(c)(2) would be applicable, and he can just go for a PPL/IR which will then "lock in" his ATPL exams for 7 years whilst he gains MPA experience using his ICAO licence, then just pass a ATPL LST when he has the experience.

[Linda Mollison]

Ifitaint...

To quote Part FCL (rather than CAP804!)

FCL.510.A ATPL(A) — Prerequisites, experience and crediting

(a) Prerequisites. Applicants for an ATPL(A) shall hold:

(1) an MPL; or

(2) a CPL(A) and a multi-engine IR for aeroplanes. In this case, the applicant shall also have received instruction in MCC.

and

FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences

(c) Validity period

(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:

(ii) for the issue of a commercial pilot licence or instrument rating (IR), for a period of 36 months;

[ifitaintboeing]

Except that he will ultimately be applying for a ATPL(A) under Annex III of the Aircrew Regulation, not FCL.510.A.

FCL.025(c)(1)(ii) would apply, hence recommending he go for his IR-SPA-SE.

[mad_jock]

I have just had one authority with the view that the pilots had to upgrade to ATPL within 7 years.

Its not a problem as the lad has got the hours and his LPC is before the 7 years is up.

And I would also say that getting a CPL and SE-SPA-IR would be the cheapest way if its going to cost you that much to get current on your type with 500 hours.

You need to get the CPL though as well.

[RTN11]

Surely the cheapest option is to take the exams again, as you wouldn't need a registered course, just pay to sit the exams.

[Proximity]

You're assuming someone who took the years over three years ago could pass them again without studying...if you factor in that my time is worth something, and that I don't live near an exam centre, the cost quickly escalates

[speed_alive_rotate]

Adding to the fact that they are awful exams, and once in a lifetime is certainly enough for any sane person haha!!

[RTN11]

Well, you asked the cheapest. The question banks are available for £60, hammer those then sit the exams is a lot cheaper than any flying course is going to be no matter how highly your time is valued.

Obviously a flying course may have more future use in terms of progression, but I was just answering the question in the title.