Small Biz Jet across the pond

[Doors to Automatic]

My knowledge on executive jets is rather rusty so would anyone be able to tell me what the smallest Biz Jet that can make it across the pond in one go is (LON-NYC). Also would anyone be able to give me a very ballpark steer as to the one way sector cost of such a flight? Any responses very gratefully received.

[Consol]

Probably a bit more sensible to consider a tech stop for a start. Costs a lot of money to have the range you rarely will use, plenty of places to stop. However if big wallet wants LON NYC then go get it.

[galaxy flyer]

Non-stop, it's the CL604/605, G IV types. Tech stopping, much wider fleet and cheaper, too. CL300, G200, DA 2000 (that might do it non-stop).

GF

[ckiel]

Sorry to say, but with the CL604/605 it depends on the wind. Happens to me, that I had to fuel in Gander or on the way back in Shannon. At least in a commercial ops.
Part 91 or privat, who cares about etops. Heard rumors about a CL601 going nonstop from KTEB to LSGG and the Captain was bragging about it.
Cheers

[Booglebox]

Falcon 50? :}

[Mike Echo]

Fairly sure the Falcon 50 (EX) will not do LON - NYC but I was on one that did TEB - LHR non stop. Can't remember if this with good winds or just normal
M.E.

[Doors to Automatic]

Thanks for the answers everyone. What would typical sector costs be (all costs allocation included)? I am guessing $15-20000?

[CargoOne]

If all costs included (incl financing/lease) you need to double your figure for a simple jet like hawker/learjet which will need a stop. Anything what can do TATL reliably you need to multiple your figure by 3..4 times

[cldrvr]

I am guessing $15-20000?

With BA charging 10k for a single first class you think you can get the whole plane for slightly more?

If you gotta ask, you can't afford it.

[Doors to Automatic]

$20000 is not "slightly more", it is double. :p My estimate for a A319 is $45000 so I would expect something a lot smaller to be around half the price.

[cldrvr]

$20000 is not "slightly more", it is double. :p My estimate for a A319 is $45000 so I would expect something a lot smaller to be around half the price. Fine, I'll bite. Small jet with tech stop, you won't get much change for 80k, non stop in something bigger, 120-160k, let's not go the 319 route shall we.....

[Doors to Automatic]

How do you arrive at costs like that? A 787 wouldn't be much more than $120K? That equates to circa $480 per seat (250 seats) or $640 per passenger to break-even at 75% one way which is in the ballpark of the sorts of fares charged.

[INNflight]

You're stuck with the "small aircraft costs less than big aircraft" logic, which is not true.

Just because an aircraft only has 10 seats and not 100 doesn't mean it will only cost a tenth to operate.

[cldrvr]

How do you arrive at costs like that? A 787 wouldn't be much more than $120K? That equates to circa $480 per seat (250 seats) or $640 per passenger to break-even at 75% one way which is in the ballpark of the sorts of fares charged.

Apples and oranges, the fixed annual cost of a private jet are spread out over far fewer hours then an airliner.

You can't just translate operating one into another.

[Doors to Automatic]

You're stuck with the "small aircraft costs less than big aircraft" logic, which is not true.

Just because an aircraft only has 10 seats and not 100 doesn't mean it will only cost a tenth to operate.

No I agree but neither would a plane with 6-8 seats cost the same as a 787 with up to 290 seats!

[galaxy flyer]

I think CL604s are chartering in the US for around $10k per hour plus crew expenses and any positioning charges. Globals are easily twice that. I've seen quotes US to UAE round trip for $1 million.

The charges have nothing to do with capital costs, just what someone will pay, as always. A Global's actual transaction cost is probably a quarter or a third of the 787's. These 12 passenger planes ain't cheap. For example, a Global is about 80% the purchase price of a 737 BBJ, but the maintenance savings of the 737 almost overcomes the higher fuel burns.

GF

[mutt]

No I agree but neither would a plane with 6-8 seats cost the same as a 787 with up to 290 seats! Nope they would probably cost more :) We charter our F7X for $9500 per hour, but we can obtain B747-400's for $6500 (ACMI).

Allowing for an older aircraft such as a a G4 at $5000 per hour x 16 hours =$90,000 plus the extras, 7X would work out to be $152,000.

[Phil Brockwell]

And this conversation demonstrates why Commercial Pilot is an Oxymoron.


PB

[FlyMD]

Oh, can I play the oxymoron game too? "Honest Broker" :}

[specialbrew]

Challenger 604 = £70k~

[Lima Oscar]

I have just seen a "sale" for a round trip with a Glex LBG-SFO costing up to 320000$ ;)

[SMT Member]

I was quoted a CL605 for a 06:30 block hour flight at USD 72.000. Would imagine LON-NYC to be around 90K based on that.

[Doors to Automatic]

Does anyone have a steer on how many business jet movements there are between London and NYC? My guess would be 3000 per year - 1500 each way or 4 returns per day.

Passenger-wise I would assume 3-4 on each flight so around 10,000 per year?

[Lima Oscar]

Does anyone have a steer on how many business jet movements there are between London and NYC? My guess would be 3000 per year - 1500 each way or 4 returns per day.

Passenger-wise I would assume 3-4 on each flight so around 10,000 per year?

How did you guess those numbers ? :confused:

There is an average of 6 daily flights between LBG and the USA (3 each ways) with about 2 of which are to/from NYC area...

I think London should be close to that.

[Global_Global]

Oh, can I play the oxymoron game too? "Honest Broker" :}

Now that just made my day! Haha :D

[Doors to Automatic]

Lima Oscar - I know that there are 80-85 movements from the London Area in total so I just guessed 4 based on the size of the New York market at Heathrow versus the airport total (6%) - I appreciate that this may not be accurate as the total market includes leisure traffic and my gut feel is lower so your figure of 2 seems reasonable so thank you very much for the information