BBJ

[de facto]

Flying in a 737 Boeing Business Jet - YouTube (http://youtu.be/lHqDEiTNSrY)

Have a look and spot all the pilots mistakes in such a short demo...amazing:D

[con-pilot]

Okay, I watched it, what mistakes?

[Dash8driver1312]

I think the mistake is taking the Jumpseat when you have that fantastic cabin to stretch out in?

[B737900er]

The only mistake i can see is the PM touching the MCP panel, But then again, it was in manual flight so technically it is his to touch under instruction from the PF.

Other than that I can't see whats wrong.

[Jet Jockey A4]

Didn't rotate into the command bars and kept flying out of them.

[CL300]

slight "bad habits" but no mistakes as far as i can see.

"under flying" the bars on take off is very common habit on VIP drivers ( all types)

Shutting down engines ASAP even if out of idle is also a common event.

They are "old school" so they climb and descend V/S which is not optimal, but works fine

For the rest they flew the plane, it is a cognitive process for these guys , they are neither struggling, nor overwhelmed by idiotic sops.

All in all it is a good performance, consistent, and you can be sure that they will bring the thing intact every time.

It is a "PASS"... on my opinion, but i cannot wait for the list of mistakes...

[tommoutrie]

What's this list then?
What's wrong with using VS? Or FLC? Or pitch? Or FPA?
Why do planes have all these buttons if there's an optimal method? Just have one big button that says FLY. Much easier..

[silverknapper]

Factory pilots. Flew the airplane. No messing about. It's called flying. They probably flew a 747 two days prior and are in a 777 the next day.

[despegue]

Good Operators, no glaring mistakes found at all de Facto.
I operate the same way, so do my collegues, all VERY experienced.
Yes, they did not follow the v bar...big deal, it is a SUGGESTION bar, not a Command bar. The only commanders are the pilots flying the aircraft.

[PLovett]

The only thing I thought may be wrong was shutting down the donks' prior to applying the park brake, but then what do I know about a BBJ, zip!

[CL300]

What's this list then?
What's wrong with using VS? Or FLC? Or pitch? Or FPA?
Why do planes have all these buttons if there's an optimal method? Just have one big button that says FLY. Much easier..

OK I bite, just because it is you..:cool:
There is NO mistakes, just habits.. everything is safe and consistent.
They have all this buttons, because they can...in 30 years time you will have none of these ! promised, but you will not be flying as well so no big deal.
Of course there is an optimal method, the one that follows the nice curves on the performance manual.;)

At the end of the day, it is a flying day, no more, no less. :D


..I do not think that they are factory pilots, they do not have a boeing lanyard..:p

[tommoutrie]

Defacto...

What's this list?

You're accusing a couple of professional pilots of a bundle of gross errors and subjecting them to trial by prune. What's this list? Or are you too busy updating your flight sim? I've got thousands of old jepps I was going to send you and your mates but I'm going to line my hamster cage with them instead because they will make good use of them.

I've got some checklists with real pilot writing on that you can't have too.

CL i still don't understand. What's this optimum departure of which you speak? Do you mean flying an accurate speed? And you can't do that in anything but FLC?... I tend to depart in the bombardier bastardised version of pitch but use FLC or VS too whenever the mood or conditions dictate. Quite often hand fly and seem to get the speed I'm after by some miracle. So how can there only be one button for departing? And if there is, which one is it and why isn't it labelled FLY..

[CL300]

At the end of the day, pushing button or not, having a FD or not an autopilot or not. The front hamsters have to deliver :

1 .. a trajectory in 4 dimensions
2 ..A compliance with the performance of the plane

The technique achieved really does not matter, as long as , it is safe and consistant; this is exactly why SOP's were created, because pilots are NOT of an equal capability. Sops are there to establish an average performance , tied into the performance of plane, spirit of company, politics ;-) , etc...
On the latest falcons for example you do not have an FLC, you have a CLB, it can be raw as a standard FLC in climb, or slightly prepared in a VCLB, doing all you departure ( unless ATC mess up in between) and if nice with you and ARINC coding is right being a full course with the ultimate VNAV that will "drive" the vertical part of your flight with you only touching the FMA ALT SEL rotary switch..

Very close to a "FLY" button...Since i forgot to say that speeds constraints are handled by the AT...

Is it better ? I do not know, what i know is that humans have to adapt to technologies, they have to embrace and master them ( it should be easy since they created them in the first place, and they did not create the laws of physics); for decades we had ( in aviation among others) shifted the physical action into a brain action, embedding our behavior in a process so cognitive , that deviation from these are unseen, and accident are happening .

As FAR as the FLY button is concerned, my only sentence would be : " ARE YOU READY ?", Are pilots ready to have a "FLY" mode and watch the film ? :ok:

[tommoutrie]

Anyone else irritated by defacto not posting his list?

Publicly slags off two professional blokes doing their job without any justification.

****.

[CL300]

he is on line as i type..let's see !!

[JonDyer]

Somebody get Tom a sector to fly. He's evidently bored.

If he doesn't get into the air soon we'll have a seven page thread on why VS is a safer climb mode than FLC and how he's positive that if he takes the Global into low earth orbit he can get the engines to function as ramjets.

[flydive1]

Well, in the Global VS is more stable and confortable than FLC.

But i see your point;)

[tommoutrie]

My theories on flying the ILS inverted so that it's easier to spot the ground contact will be published shortly.

And I regularly use VS or pitch (that now flashes master bloody cautions at you when you select it) for the climb.

But back to the point, defacto is a defacto knob end for not publishing his list. He's saying that two blokes aren't doing their job properly and that doesn't matter if you're down the pub but this forum is public and it may have the poor sods owners eye..

Mods.. I'm sorry for saying **** before. I had toned it down from **** which is what I actually thought.

[BBJ-Captain]

Maybe defacto has a vested interest in getting traffic to the video (which has a sponsored advert attached to it), in order to get some advertising revenue.

I would suggest this thread be deleted by the mods.