RYANAIR new contracts pay

[VaniosLenos]

Being offered a DEC contract with FR via Storm. After all taxes (Irish) and social insurance, I was told retention rate is apx 55%. Other skippers I now of, make much more than that about 80% of their gross.


Anything I am missing? Can anyone shed a light into this?

[16024]

55% seems realistic to me, based on experience. You might push it to 60% if you are on top of the expenses, but then you have those expenses to consider, if you see what I mean.
I also would like to see how the "80 per centers" do it, but I'd be surprised if got posted here.

[WhyByFlier]

Yes, that the Ryanair captains are exaggerating and the fact you can probably claim expenses against the taxes which Storm couldn't possibly predict for you. I don't fly for Ryanair, I'd leave the industry before I did and I'm just guessing. Enjoy!

[172_driver]

Tax and social security administrations closing the loop holes that once existed. A few years ago it was not common that you paid social security in the country where you are based, this is now a must for new-joiners (even though the enforcement of such rules seem to be lagging slightly..) Those already in the system can live on grand-fathers right and pay the (very low) social security rate of Ireland for up to 10 years. Check the local social security rates for different countries, e.g. Belgium 48 %.

There was a thread further down about Denmark re-writing the tax agreement with Ireland. Now Ryanair employers based in Denmark will have to pay taxes in Denmark, and not in Ireland as previously was the case. Tax rate in Denmark is most definitely higher than Ireland. It wasn't clear, but I assume, it involves contractors as well.

Years ago as a contractor you could set up your service providing company in tax-havens, Malta, Channel Islands, Dubai among few places I've heard from colleagues. There are still plenty of those pilots around who proudly swaggers with paying only 5 % in taxes. These times are over and, if you're a Brookfield contractor at least, you have to engage with a "Ryanair approved accountant" that will put you in an Irish Ltd. company.

Another trick in the book many I know of uses is dubious company expenses to reduce the tax burden. This is of course dangerous territories and as late as last week only it seems the Irish Revenue has started to look into some companies associated with Brookfield.

It's all very complicated and there is no one size fits all. Everyone has there own story to tell. My low point was when I went 2 years without any social insurance at all, not because I wanted to, but because I was bounced between different institutions none wanting to deal with me. So be careful what you wish for over here…

All in my humble opinion of course.. :ok:

[Say Mach Number]

Why not just insist on a permanent contract.

The power is with you at the minute.........for a change.......

Ie I am not coming unless I have a permanent contract in the base I want.

Try it. Unless of course you want to be a contractor.

[skyloone]

Take care and good advice on approaching any flying contact offer. One large loco have just asked current crews to submit CV's should they want standard employment contracts. Tax authorities appear to be crawling all over this right now and it's not looking good. The agencies just have slots to fill and remember at the end of the day tax compliance or not is your business and your liability!

[BALLSOUT]

Depending on your contract I would say 80% is possible. As a contractor you will be able to take all of your expenses from the top before tax. If you are on a floating contract that would allow you to take out all the travelling costs, hotel and food costs. Then there is your normal training, uniform and equipment costs to deduct. Even if you are on a based contract, you will still be out of base quite a lot and the above will all apply. I would still recommend you get a Ryanair employment contract if you can.
Less money perhaps but a lot more security.

[VaniosLenos]

Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas.
The retention rate of 55% (according to a sample payslip I received from an Irish accountant company) was after an addition of about 10% of expenses, on the take home pay. It looks unrealistic to be able to claim every month an amount of in excess of 10% of your gross salary, at least IMHO. That would mean one has to spent every month 1000-1500 Euros only on company expenditure, something that looks difficult to achieve. I was also sent a list on what you can claim, and is not a lot. Flying out of base would qualify basically to claim all expenses you incur, but its your money you are spending at the end of the day so, no real increment from the 55%
Apparently 80% as it was said, was for those having an old contract with companies set up elsewhere other than Ireland, and that can be done no more.
Furthermore, I was told that if you are in a base where there is not much flying in winter time, then obviously you are looking at a salary of 30-40 hours gross, making the home pay on such months, very very low. Is that also true?

[172_driver]

It looks unrealistic to be able to claim every month an amount of in excess of 10% of your gross salary, at least IMHO. That would mean one has to spent every month 1000-1500 Euros only on company expenditure, something that looks difficult to achieve

It is unrealistic, unless you are out of base - as you said. The big thing that most new-joiners live on for about 2 years is the cost of Type Rating and subsistence expenses from their time in training. When those expenses are gone it, reality catches up and people are surprised that they all of a sudden have a much lower retention rate. And to boost their take-home pay some start to put in dodgy expenses, like driving there car half way across Europe on every block off. Of course they don't, but since for mileage no receipt is required it goes through. At least until IRS knocks on your door.

Furthermore, I was told that if you are in a base where there is not much flying in winter time, then obviously you are looking at a salary of 30-40 hours gross, making the home pay on such months, very very low. Is that also true?

It's true. When a base reduces from 7 aircraft in summer to 2 in winter - it's easier to understand. Now, everyone's month off is distributed during the winter so that offsets the reduction in aircraft partially. This seem to be more of a problem for FOs though, since captains tend to be closer to the 900 hrs limit over the year.

[skyloone]

For any new joiners or those thinking of going down this route and in particular Cadets planning on claiming the cost of type rating back and with loans to pay. If revenue continue the digging and new joiners are put on the current base PAYE FO pay deals with no ability to claim the TR costs back you could find yourself in some bother. There are souls who claim you could get the TR cost back via a self assement thereby getting ones income tax back but even with my limited tax background I'd suggest that is never going to wash. I believe one needs the limited company structure to do this.

[Avenger]

Nowadays 55% is about the maximum you can trawl out of these contracts, the old creative accountancy schemes won't wash anymore. My colleague has been asked for a "full disclosure" the revenue want to see bank statements, credit card statements, travel bookings, phone bills the whole lot. The 40k saved over the past 4 years will get quickly swallowed up by the penalty fines and tax accountant at 180/ hr. Forget trying to get the rating cost back, that's pie in the sky. If your location has a DTA agreement with the Uk revenue then the problem gets even worse. At NAS they fez up and pay the correct deductions, sleep at night and can retain their asset base, of course, the downside of contract work is the attitude of the banks if you want a mortgage without a "permanent" contract as our colleagues have found in Spain. If you have a UK property to rent out while working abroad this is also on the radar now, on the other hand "inspection visits" are tax allowable, but "improvements" such as 52 plasma TV are not!

[South Prince]

Any info as to when screenings for non typed Capt will start and time lapse before you get a reply after applying?
Cheers

[despegue]

Write your own "permanent" contract, sign it, present it to the bank and voila! A mortgage for 25'years:E worked perfectly in my case.

[Grease Weasel]

Despegue - nice! :-)