Sunwing flight escorted back to Toronto

[Dutchman79]

Exclusive: Tactical police board Sunwing flight after plane escorted back to Toronto's Pearson | CTV News (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/25-year-old-passenger-arrested-after-sunwing-flight-escorted-back-to-toronto-1.1931597)

[AreOut]

TORONTO, July 25 (Reuters) - A Canadian charter plane bound for Panama was escorted by U.S. fighter jets back to Toronto, where a passenger was removed by police after allegedly threatening the safety of the flight, police said on Friday.

Canadian plane escorted by U.S. F-16s after passenger threat (http://news.msn.com/world/canadian-plane-escorted-by-us-f-16s-after-passenger-threat)

[Flash2001]

Bit of overreaction. Certainly the police looked much more dangerous than the suspect.

After an excellent landing etc...

[AreOut]

"He basically just tore a strip off her, explaining how expensive the cigarettes are here in Canada, he hates Canada," Bathe said.

"Then he said, with great expression using his hands, 'I just want to bomb Canada.'"


what a naughty boy...

[Dushan]

He is free to leave Canada, after he serves his time in jail.

[L-38]

News now reports that after his force-able arrest by SWAT police, the shackled kid's attitude had dramatically changed - "I love Canada" he had said. . . . . I certainly would have said the same.

[Runway101]

Awaiting for the US to impose psychological evaluation before anyone boards a flight over US airspace, in a US aircraft, or with US passenger on boards. :}

[Basset hound]

The guy is mentally ill. His parents have been trying to get help for him for years, to no avail. It's a good thing the Metro cops didn't storm the aircraft; they tend to shoot people in that type of situation. :(

[RatherBeFlying]

Outside the courthouse his father Sadegh Shahi said that his son will be sent to a hospital for a psychological assessment for at least 72 hours at the request of his family.

"That’s what I want," Sadegh Shahi said. "He's been suffering for 10 years now ... I hope they are going to do something for him."
'Ali is not at fault'

Shahi's family says he has a history of mental illnesses that weren't properly addressed by police and the health system.

Ali Shahi, who currently lives in Mississauga, is alleged to have made a threat to Sunwing flight 772.

"I am sorry for what happened on the flight, but Ali is not at fault," his father Shadegh Shahi said. "I blame the police and health system. We called the police for help more than 23 times in the last two to three years, but unfortunately they did nothing to help us or help my son."Ali Shahi, Sunwing threat suspect, released on bail - Toronto - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ali-shahi-sunwing-threat-suspect-released-on-bail-1.2719016)

As before mentioned the Toronto Police have shot quite a number of mentally ill and don't seem to be improving:(

[SummerLightning]

According to American news reports, flight 772 had an unusually eventful day, Taking off for a second time, it was forced to divert to Montego Bay because a passenger was taken ill. Same Canadian Flight Diverted Twice in One Day - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/same-canadian-flight-diverted-twice-one-day-n165491)

[Gauges and Dials]

This story, as reported in the press, doesn't hang together at all.

Either the guy's an immediate threat or he's not. If he's a threat, why did the aircraft fly 45 minutes back to Pearson instead of diverting to someplace closer? Or, if he's not a threat, why didn't they just continue to their destination and hand him off to the local police upon arrival?

And then, what's with the police placing the aircraft and all of the passengers at risk by deciding to play Army, rather than just arresting the guy?

[Maxan_Murphy]

Overkill....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhRCZDjaevQ

[josephfeatherweight]

That, was, ridiculous...

[Gauges and Dials]

I might pick other words than "ridiculous" to describe a bunch of heavily armed people invading an aircraft and pointing ltheir weapons at innocent unarmed. passengers

[Checkboard]

So - six police all board the aircraft, and ALL SIX immediately turn right and move down the cabin, leaving (at least two visible crew and) an un-searched toilet and cockpit to their backs.

They spend an enormous amount of time shouting "Heads down, hands up" - and yet ignore the guy filming them all from row two in front of them??

Is it just me - or is that rather poor operational practice? :confused:

[ehwatezedoing]

How about knowing in advance it was about ONE person and having a confirmation just prior entering of where he was in the cabin ?

No poor operational practice.

[ehwatezedoing]

I might pick other words than "ridiculous" to describe a bunch of heavily armed people invading an aircraft and pointing ltheir weapons at innocent unarmed. passengers

They had to deal with whatever version of the event was given to them and assume the worst.

[flydive1]

How about knowing in advance it was about ONE person and having a confirmation just prior entering of where he was in the cabin ?

They had to deal with whatever version of the event was given to them and assume the worst.

Did they know or did they not?

[chips101]

Jeez, I'm no expert but if that's Canadian special forces or law enforcement in action it should be a walk in the park for true terrorists :{

[500N]

ehwat

If they KNEW it was only one person, then why the need for all the raised guns ???

Secondly, if you are going to raise the guns, then the first person through the door takes a second to raise his gun as he turns the corner.
In fact, he is fully exposed in the corridor before the gun is raised.

[Sawbones62]

chips101 - that was a tactical unit of the Peel Regional Police, i.e. local police, not even Toronto police or RCMP.

The Canadian SOF (JTF2 etc..) are very different, as those who have served with them in Helmand, Kandahar etc.can attest. They get called out for the real terrorists...

[J.O.]

This thread has certainly taken the notion of Monday morning quarterbacking to a whole new level. But I'm sure you're all perfect, so what's the harm ...

[angels]

Checkers - The SWAT team should take a look at the clips (especially the second), sit down and work out a new plan which would not have killed many people had there actually been a dangerous, armed, person there, rather than a standard nut case.

People in the back had absolutely no idea what was going on.

[500N]

JO

It's not about us being perfect, it's about the right and wrong way to do things
- like assault aircraft, buildings, take control of the environment.

Another aspect, the first 4 if not 5 Police all have their weapons pointing
down the corridor and / or at the policeman in front of them.
I very much doubt the threat is the policeman in front of them.


BTW, if they haven't been trained for that scenario, then it's not totally
them to blame.

[Sunnyjohn]

Either the guy's an immediate threat or he's not. If he's a threat, why did the aircraft fly 45 minutes back to Pearson instead of diverting to someplace closer? I cannot believe that during that 45 minutes the crew were not able to report back exactly what the situation was. So somewhere the message got lost. Overkill isn't in it . . .

[Gauges and Dials]

The SWAT team should take a look at the clips (especially the second), sit down and work out a new plan which would not have killed many people had there actually been a dangerous, armed, person there, rather than a standard nut case.

I'd go further than that, and say that the SWAT team should not exist.

Either it's necessary to militarily storm an airplane full of passengers (which I believe may have been done successfully at the very most a handful of times, worldwide, in my lifetime) or it is not necessary. If it's necessary, then for God's sake, bring in the best special forces team in the region to do the job. and do it. This is not the kind of operation to be carried out by a couple of members of the local constabulary to whom you've given some surplus military kit and a weekend's worth of training. Encouraging local police departments to play commando is a good way to get innocent people killed.

[Bobman84]

Cringeworthy video of the gung-ho members.

Glad there were no injuries, but come on, you can tell if someone is just saying something out of frustration as this guy did and handle it accordingly.

[sandiego89]

So I guess we should just ignore angry, "crazy" folks with arabic sounding names making bomb "jokes". Just laugh it off, hand him a cookie and a cold drink...maybe an upgrade as he is obviously just frustrated????

Yes the tactics need a review, but I don't see the outrage over the repsonse.

[Gauges and Dials]

So I guess we should just ignore angry, "crazy" folks with arabic sounding names making bomb "jokes". Just laugh it off, hand him a cookie and a cold drink...maybe an upgrade as he is obviously just frustrated????


Your logical fallacy is black-or-white (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white). There are many, many possible responses that are neither "ignore him," nor "have the local police put on a Kabuki show."


Yes the tactics need a review, but I don't see the outrage over the repsonse.

Can you imagine a single possible scenario under which you, as PIC of an aircraft full of passengers, would want this response? Can you think of a single incident in the history of aviation in which this would have been a good idea? Guy with a bomb -- he's going to detonate it when he sees the cops board. Guy with a gun -- he's going to either start shooting or grab a hostage when the cops board.

[evansb]

Most passengers are reporting that the most traumatic part of the flight was the storming of the aircraft by the Swat Police.

The police hand-cuffed, arrested and detained his girl friend. During the flight, she was observed trying to calm him down during and after his outbursts.

If his whole family was on board, would they have arrested all of them too?

The militarization of civilian police forces is escalating all over North America at an alarming rate. The costs of these teams, even in small town America, is borne by the local tax payer.

Swat Teams in full body armour and shields, (and armoured vehicles for that matter), are being used more frequently for things like domestic assault and busts for simple drug possession and low level trafficking. NOT funny when they get the wrong house.

As Bill Maher said recently "Even white people are afraid of the police now in America".

[737Jock]

I would have no idea what to do: "hands down heads up" or "heads down hands up". hands and heads kind of sound the same when they scream like that.

Police like to scream, but they don't realise they are not being very clear with their instructions in general.

[500N]

737

Agree. In fact, when watching one of the videos, I thought at first the last Policeman who stopped near the door
had actually said in one sequence
"Heads up, hands down".

I think that is Police training where they like to see the hands.

As opposed to "Everyone down".

[standbykid]

Having had a lot of experience in Toronto (YYZ and the city itself) the cops show of force is not surprising. This would have been like Christmas for them.
Toronto and the GTA is pretty quiet given its size so SWAT or what ever they call themselves probably welcomed the action.

[Basil]

So, if you just quietly sat there with your hands in your lap looking at them, would they shoot you? :confused:

[SLFguy]

So, if you just quietly sat there with your hands in your lap looking at them, would they shoot you?

Given how 'Keystone Kop' the operation was they've probably forgotten to bring bullets..

[stagger]

I have experienced a similar situation involving the same Police force very near to Toronto airport - on a bus where apparently an individual (who was clearly mentally ill) had perhaps muttered something about a "device".

In that incident a single officer charged onto the bus in body armour - with no obvious Police markings - pointing his weapon at each of us in turn screaming "Which one? Which one?" to the bus driver.

Apparently it wasn't obvious that it might be the crazy looking old guy, talking loudly to himself, wearing a large handwritten sign with the words "Super Actor" on it - and carrying a huge sparkly tin-foil covered box with odd decorations.

So compared to that incident - the recent operation looks extremely well-planned and executed!