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View Full Version : A380 Routings off Lambourne when landing on 09s at Heathrow


ukdean
22nd Jul 2014, 20:43
I have noticed on more than one occasion that A380 aircraft are given what you could say was a direct route to lhr over West London when landing on 09. All other aircraft fly the normal rroute being over north west lLondon then turn over Maidenhead.

Emirates and qantas are the ones that i have noticed take this route. Does anyone know why they take this route which takes them to the south of the field to make the approach. The only reason i can think off is for easy gate access ie next to 9L.

Thanks in advance

KelvinD
22nd Jul 2014, 21:09
Simple: for reasons unkown to me, they generally put those flights on the "wrong" runway, 09R. Today at Heathrow I watched a BA A380 cross the 09L approach in a generally NE to SW direction, before joining the approach to 09R. The Emirates & Qantas A380 arrivals this afternoon also went south of the airport from the Lambourne hold to join 09R from the south.

Crazy Voyager
22nd Jul 2014, 22:33
Without working there myself, look at the A380 ground movement chart for Heathrow. I think that should answer your question why they keep landing 09R.

Gonzo
22nd Jul 2014, 23:17
09L exit A5 is shut, this is the first one available to the A380.

If an A380 rolls past A5 then it enters the localiser critical area which means we cannot use the ILS until it vacates the runway.

Therefore, we currently land all A380s on 09R.

KelvinD
23rd Jul 2014, 05:51
Gonzo,
Many thanks for that answer. Makes perfect sense really, doesn't it?
Cheers

ukdean
23rd Jul 2014, 07:55
Why intercept the localiser for 9r from the south and not from the north side as this is the normal approach when leaving Lambourne. The question is still open

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
23rd Jul 2014, 08:47
In the case in question, because it makes it far easier for the final director as the A380 doesn't have to cross the path of the 09L inbounds. It's a procedure which is employed frequently in early mornings for all types of aircraft when both runways may be in use for landings. It may also be used in other situations when one runway is in use for landing to provide extra track distance or in poor weather for example.

KelvinD
23rd Jul 2014, 14:16
HD,
Now that is interesting. Yesterday seems to have been an exception as most, if not all, inbound A380 flights crossed the 09L approach.
EK1, for example, sneaked across between the inbound United 787 and a BA A319. The B787 had come from the Ockham hold and had crossed the 09R approach (as is normal), while the Emirates A380 came from the north.
Later, BA flights BA268 & BA282 also approached from north of the airport and crossed the 09L approach, as did MH4.
What was interesting was the view of the BA 282 as it passed about 1 mile to the west of I was stood with the rest of the "ooh aah" crowd on the Terminal 5 spur.
Regardless of all that, it is nice to know there is at least a temporary valid reason for the choice of 09R!

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
23rd Jul 2014, 14:52
Whilst there are "normal" procedures, what actually happens is in the hands of the radar controllers so there may be many occasions when things look different to usual. I suspect that the "over the top" routeing is only being discussed now because of the A380s but it does happen quite a lot.

Gonzo
23rd Jul 2014, 16:14
Just to be clear though, there is no restriction on landing runway on easterly ops, so there doesn't actually have to be any reason for any aircraft to land on 09R. Or perhaps more accurately, 'because I felt like it' can be reason enough!

DaveReidUK
23rd Jul 2014, 17:10
Or perhaps more accurately, 'because I felt like it' can be reason enough!And of course landing an A380 on the departure runway, as was done on both easterlies and westerlies during the Operational Freedoms trials, can potentially reduce the impact it would otherwise have on the arrival rate.

http://www.heathrowairport.com/static/Heathrow_Noise/Downloads/PDF/LHR_noise-Operational_Freedoms_trial-Phase_2-explanatory_document.pdf

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
23rd Jul 2014, 18:01
...and the departure rate?

DaveReidUK
23rd Jul 2014, 19:34
...and the departure rate? With only 15 A380 arrivals per day, 5 of which are before 0700, even de-alternating them all probably only has a negligible effect on the 670-odd departures.

coracle
23rd Jul 2014, 19:53
KelvinD

It also depends on how busy TMA EAST and BIG are. If it is possible, the 09R landers from LAM get "stack swapped" to the BIG hold so that they are presented to Heathrow App on the south side, saving them doing the cross over that you described.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
23rd Jul 2014, 20:20
That's even better and I'm sure the LL DIRs are grateful.

Gonzo
23rd Jul 2014, 20:21
It's certainly not a negligible effect on the departure rate, which is why in normal ops the best runway to use is a complex decision.

DaveReidUK
23rd Jul 2014, 21:00
It's certainly not a negligible effect on the departure rateOK, I stand corrected.

How many departure slots do the 10 post-0700 A380 arrivals on 09R wipe out?

DaveReidUK
25th Jul 2014, 07:04
Yesterday seems to have been an exception as most, if not all, inbound A380 flights crossed the 09L approach.

Yes, on Tuesday 7 out of the 9 A380 09R LAM arrivals joined the ILS from the north:

WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2384860)
WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2384777)
WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2384711)
WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2384769)
WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2384716)
WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2385168)
WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2384717)

and 2 from the south:

WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2384747)
WebTrak My Neighbourhood - Home Locator: London Heathrow Airport (http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr//home/webtrak/2384779)

Gonzo
25th Jul 2014, 08:03
DRUK,

Without sounding facetious, the answer to your question is 'it depends', which was my point.

Yes, on paper, if you assume a schedule of 40-42 departures an hour, you'd think that one or two A380s arriving per hour would not have much effect, and I could quote the average time lost on the departure runway for an A380 arrival, but rarely are things identical to the average at LHR.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
25th Jul 2014, 09:20
What Webtrak and all the clever statistics do not show is what is actually going on at Swanwick and Heathrow regarding tactical decisions by the controllers.