That's no way to treat a lady - the Boeing 787 Display at Farnborough

[Centaurus]

Just saw a You Tube of the Boeing 787 displaying its flying characteristics at Farnborough. While a most impressive display of handling at low altitude I must admit to being rather uncomfortable at the manoeuvres flown by the test pilot. Granted it could be the camera angle.

The rotations seemed savage and the initial climb angle so steep as to be cowboy flying particularly as what seemed to be a marked bunt from high angle to flap retract angle. I certainly did not like the second take off on the film where the pilot whipped into a very low level right climbing turn within seconds of another savage rotation rate.

Of course it might just be my personal reaction after memories of long past air shows where over-enthusiastic test pilots have pulled that much too hard and gone in like a bomb.

By all means show off the beautiful lines of the Boeing 787 with a fast low run but none of this yanking and jerking please. That's no way to treat a lady. Leave the hack-flick-zoom to fighter displays.

[Ian W]

If you want the world TV directors to choose your slot to show during a 15 second voice over about Farnborough then you have to make things look a little more exciting than normal airport operations. I am sure that everything done was fully checked and cleared before the display.

[RVF750]

Boeing released a Youtube video of the practice run which was identical. FBW. Doesn't matter how hard you pull if the aircraft won't allow a tailstrike. Likewise roll angle at low altitude.


It is surprising what you can do with a very light aircraft.....Thrust to weight is pretty awesome when you are at empty weight plus maybe 1/2 hour fuel plus reserves.

[flydive1]

And they don't even need to install a smoke generator;)

[NWSRG]

Have to say, as nothing more than a lapsed NPPL, I loved it! Beautiful aircraft, a real looker, and clearly dynamically capable. I'm sure an Airbus can do the same tricks, but it's nice to see something out of the ordinary at an airshow. And I'm sure the electro-trickery is keeping the (highly skilled and experienced) test crew right.

From an SLF point of view, isn't it reassuring to see what she can take!

[Capetonian]

Farnborough 2014: 787-9 Dreamliner dazzles over Farnborough Airshow (http://www.boeing.com/Features/2014/07/airshow_787-9.html)

What a beautiful bird she is!

[DevX]

The 787 Doomliner is so yesterday dahlings, I'm looking forward to seeing the shiny new A350 XWB tomorrow. :cool:

[Linktrained]

"It is surprising what you can do with a very light aircraft..."


Some may remember the single engine entire display of the lovely looking Airspeed Ambassador over sixty years ago at the Farnborough SBAC show.


The design for Heathrow, then, had three sets of parallel runways with three different QDMs. (Potentially that might have meant 12 different ILS approach paths.)
Possibly someone saw that the potential power of a nose wheel would allow the better control of an aircraft in a crosswind. So Heathrow has, at the moment, TWO runways.
Would this have been " an unexpected consequence..." ?

[tdracer]

The 787-9 at Farnborough is one of the aircraft that was used during the certification flight testing.


The maneuvers at Farnborough are pretty mellow compared to what was done to the aircraft during cert flight testing. I've been on a few of those (although not on a 787) and they can be quite, um, exciting :eek:.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Once spoke with a chap who was part of BOAC acceptance team for the VC10. They did barrel rolls and looped it over the North Sea, decided that would do nicely!

[rjtjrt]

I respect Centaurus' opinion, but, apart from the low level turn, I thought what a beautiful circuit. Tight, with a curved approach and a lovely touchdown well up near the beginning of the runway (well short of the displaced threshold but I guess they have dispensation), and a very short rollout.
Also looks like fun.
I have no expertise in flying an airliner, and I don't think they would do this with pax aboard or a commercial flight, but a very skilful handling display from inexpert vantage.

[grounded27]

Think the most outrageous was old Tex Johnson rolling a 707 without approval. Pitch angle was impressive (do not know about the camera angle) as seen. I had the pleasure of being on an MD11-F with a relatively lite fuel load. The boys driving threw the gear up, V2+? and rotated to 45-50 deg from what I could see. I was fighting a formidable G-force to both glance at the PFD and look out the L3 window sitting behind the captain. Best acceleration I had experienced was on the side of the pond most of you reside on, PAX MD11. Cambridge to Stanstead, MPA set, they kicked the breaks off and I felt sorry for the gear. Shortest flight I have ever been on at about 9 minutes as we were already on the G/S before my flight crew could clean the aircraft up and finish the checklist.

[VH-Cheer Up]

"What do you think you were doing Tex?"

"I'm just selling airplanes"!:D

[Gate_15L]

Centaurus, I respect your post(s), but seriously!? Have we become that "P.C" that we get offended when Boeing Test Pilots, perform a well rehearsed, pre-planned display that in no way was performed recklessly but executed perfectly?

I just saw a video of the practice run, identical to the "offending" airshow... looked completely the same.

This is not in the same league as some rogue B-52 bomber jock off to ad-lib his own flying display.....

Do you get offended when you watch Bob Hoover does his stuff too? :O

[ruddman]

Aren't they flight sim pics? Not sure how 'REAL' they are.


Think you need higher AA settings. Got some jagged edges there.

[Exascot]

Once spoke with a chap who was part of BOAC acceptance team for the VC10. They did barrel rolls and looped it over the North Sea, decided that would do nicely

You can barrel roll any aircraft but not loop. I am prepared to be proved wrong but I think the G force would be too much for a VC10.

[Capetonian]

I would be surprised if you can loop any a/c with a high/T tail as at a certain point the airflow from the wings would interfere with that over the tail and produce a deep stall. (BAC 1-11 Cricklade, Wilts.)

[VH-Cheer Up]

I can only tell you what he told us. Speech night at the Air Training Corps.
He was a senior captain with BOAC. I recollect the implication was that a Mr. Trubshaw may have been at the controls. I was only at the speech night, not on board the aircraft.

[Exascot]

VH we don't disbelief what you heard but we disbelief the speaker. I don't think even Brian Trubshaw could loop a 10. He let me barrel roll Concorde once though but then I crashed it landing at LHR. His fault he was supposed to be instructing me from the RHS. OK it was in the sim but even so. Great guy, ex King's Flight.

[VH-Cheer Up]

I would be surprised if you can loop any a/c with a high/T tail as at a certain point the airflow from the wings would interfere with that over the tail and produce a deep stall. (BAC 1-11 Cricklade, Wilts.)Plenty of aerobatic aircraft with a t-tail, including gliders. And have personally seen some of those loop, including the Slingsby T53 with the ATC, so not sure that logic stands scrutiny.

According to http://www.vc10.net/Technical/wing_shapes.html: "The VC10 is one of the few T-tailed airliners to have a natural tendency for pitching nose down at the stall, if not the only one. This was mainly due to the fact that the engine nacelles were comparatively wide and therefore started acting like a low-set tailplane in high angle of attack situations. A case was made for allowing the VC10 to fly without a stick pusher but in the end a decision was made to install one as an added safety feature to prevent the dreaded super-stall condition that caused the loss of the BAC 1-11 prototype in 1963".

[pax britanica]

I thought hat people with an interest in aviation had long since got used to big airliners doing seemingly alarming things from the AB340-600 and A380 displays in recent years, good to see Boeing showing off their capabilities too.

Mind you for non aviation literate it can be alarming viz a new to the FNB area Kiwi out jogging not far away in Hawley while I was walking my dog thought he was watching incipient crash as a 380 with a seemingly disasterous bank angle and flying very low appeared and disappeared behind the trees.

He had only just relocated and had never heard of the show but he knew that as he put it 'Jumbo jets just don't do that.

[PerAsperaAdAstra]

Sure this was practiced in the sim and was carefully worked out. But one cannot help but think of the Czar 52 and C17 incident. In the C17 incident he had got away with it a few times, but wind conditions can play a part? Rolling with spoiler is also basically stalling the wing, it needs a moment to recover on rollout, that poor C17 did it's best, despite the spoilers almost continuosly extending and retracting as it was brutalised around the routine, untill she finally said, stuff this for a lark. I haven't flown anything that heavy, (25 years military, now civil) I'm sure with min fuel and the kind of power from those engines it will handle like a fighter. Birdstrike with resultant engine thrust loss at those speeds/flight attitudes? Is it worth it? Maybe is, to put one over on Airbus. I admit as a passenger I've always felt better (rightly/wrongly) flying with Mr Boeing who has pilots at the controls with the computers looking over their shoulder, compared to the competition, who have the computer at the controls with the pilot anxiously looking over it's shoulder.

[sandiego89]

I would be surprised if you can loop any a/c with a high/T tail....

Pucara, C-114 Tutor, F-104, F-101, Javelin, gliders as mentioned, etc, etc beg to differ.

If you are strictly talking about large airliners or trash haulers with a t-tail you may be more accurate. Being cleared/certified for loops/aerobatics is different than being capable. Shoot the CH-53 was looped.