Melbourne satellite re entry?

[das Uber Soldat]

Those of us over s/e Victoria tonight were treated to a spectacular show as an object re entered the atmosphere and burned up, around 9:45pm. My guess is satellite, anyone else see it and have an idea?

I took a video but it predictably didn't turn out. Hell of a show though. Looked like the shuttle disaster.

[compressor stall]

Reportedly visible from Melbourne in eastern sky heading northwards. Also visible on south coast of NSW too, obviously very high. If multi colored sparks, then it's likely to be satellite debris with the different metals burning different colours.

Otherwise most likely a bolide, or rock shattering on impact with the atmosphere with the greater surface area of the parts allowing more burning, thus appearing brighter than something that might actually reach the ground.

[kotoyebe]

Also visible from Campbelltown NSW at about the same time. We were heading south on the M5 towards Narellan and saw it heading in a westerly direction. Appeared to be very high. It was indeed spectacular.

[Eastwest Loco]

Oh no!

The Triffids have arrived.

You shouldn't have looked:ooh:

EWL

[Ultergra]

Was airborne, and one of the most incredible things I have ever seen. Everyone was talking about it over the radio's and the guard police out in force too, good times!

How was that Qantas bloke worried they might encounter debris, classic!

[500N]

Looks like it was a meteor.

In todays papers.

[compressor stall]

Maybe, but a few minutes sleuthing reveals that space debris number 14037j was tracking to renter the atmosphere overhead Melbourne SSE to NNW at approx 2138 local.

[500N]

OK, thanks.

Normally they give a warning if something is coming down over suburbia
or they have done in the past.

[500N]

Impressive piece of video here.

Don't see how people can be "shocked" unless we have become
a bunch of pansies.

Meteor: 'Space junk' lights up Australian skies (http://media.smh.com.au/news/national-news/meteor-space-junk-lights-up-australian-skies-5586459.html)

[compressor stall]

Re lack of warnings. It was likely only a rocket stage or something similar not expected to make ground contact.

[Cactusjack]

I wonder if Geoffrey Thomas will give us an expert opinion of the potential aviation safety risk this event may have caused? Perhaps he can recreate some creative scenarios in the Sim and dazzle us with how his expertise would mitigate such an occurrence if it were to happen again?

[500N]

He was on Ch 7 the other day about that Go around because of jet crossing the runway.

I couldn't listen to him !

[hoss]

That confirms it for me, at that time I was on approach into OOL and saw a long stream of orange lights to the west. By the time I said to my FO "WTF", checked my TCAS and looked back up it had disappeared. At the time I put it down to the 'mushrooms'.

Golden rules: one head up at all times. (Airbus)

[Captain Gidday]

I was on approach into OOL and saw a long stream of orange lights to the west.
Nah, that was the Pacific Motorway. Check your Rad Alt next time. :O

[hoss]

Good advice, I hope the Air Asia X guys are reading this also ;).

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

From the background comments of whoever shot that video, are you sure it wasn't an outtake from "The Bogan Hunters"?

[Arnold E]

Don't see how people can be "shocked" unless we have become
a bunch of pansies.

Ha Ha, you are joking ofcourse, the vast majority of Australians would not have had a clue what they were looking at, including me.
you are clearly some sort of genius that instantly knows all about everything, amazing, I stand in awe.:cool:

[500N]

Arnold,

Are you saying most people don't know about meteorites and them entering earths atmosphere ? Especially after the publicity of the Russian ?

Not a genius, just done a lot and been exposed to a lot in my life.

[Arnold E]

Are you saying most people don't know about meteorites and them entering earths atmosphere ?

Errr, wasn't a meteorite.:hmm:

[500N]

I know, but most things falling out of the sky that make big fireballs are so that is likely to be the most likely thing to think of.

[Tankengine]

High altitude chemtrail sprayer?:E

[500N]

Arnold,

It says you are 64.

Don't you remember haileys comet ?

Or the space junk that re entered and spread metal over Southern aus ?

Or seeing shooting stars ?

Did yo not see all the pictures and video of the russian meteorite re entry and explosion a few years ago ? It was on all the news and in the papers.

All since 1982.

[aroa]

spend a few clear nights away from the bright lights and you get plenty to look at.
"Shooting stars" going every which way, big and small. Its the much bigger ones we have to worry about :eek: And satellites too, many of

The SYD MEB burn up of space junk was beauty. Falling aeroplane comments notwithstanding

Saw goody a few weeks ago... tracked NW to SE over FNQ, made a stripe in the sky, a few bits fell away before it burnt out. Not quite as speccy as MEBs

What we really need for CB is a Tunguska Event.!! :ok:

[500N]

It just occurred.

It reminded me of an F-111 doing a dump and burn.

[compressor stall]

Leonids in 98 or 99 were spectacular. Camped on top of a dune in mungo np and lay in our swags watching fireballs rip across the night sky. Lit up the ground.

And I was airborne and saw the Hyabusa re entry over Woomera a few years back. That was a spacecraft with a story. The NASA DC8 that came over sure had some toys in it. Optically perfect glass cabin windows.

If you think how ignorant the general population is about aviation (media too ) there is a similar level of ignorance regarding astronomy.

There were media references to this being an asteroid or a comet. That's as bad a clanger as a Boeing Airbus 747.

[Stanwell]

Arnold,
Come spend a few nights with us under the stars in the Outback.
That'll cause you to raise an eyebrow - and just on 'ordinary' nights.


And, of course, the difference between a meteor and a meteorite is only its location. OK?

[fujii]

Don't you remember haileys comet ?

No, but I do remember Halley's Comet.

[500N]

OK, valid point :O

[compressor stall]

And here's a good report as to what it was.

Re-Entry of Soyuz Rocket Stage catches Australian Observers by Surprise - SPACEFLIGHT101 (http://www.spaceflight101.com/re-entry-of-soyuz-rocket-stage-catches-australian-observers-by-surprise.html)

[Hydromet]

It reminded me of an F-111 doing a dump and burn.
In September or October 1991 I was outside Wagga Wagga and saw what I first thought were three RAAF aircraft doing a dump & burn, but then noticed a number of smaller burning objects on parallel courses. I watched these as they passed north-south, for between 30 & 60 seconds, by my estimation. They were reported over a wide area.
It was very quiet, no traffic noise, and it seemed to me that I could hear the sound from these, like a high-flying jet aircraft. Would one of our astronomically knowledgeable members be able to comment if this was feasible, or a figment of my imagination.

[500N]

Hydro

Night or day ?

Were they travelling horizontal or vertical or across the horizon so to speak.

Reason I say is one aircraft makes the noise and flares create the other lights,
If of course it was at night. Flares last 30 - 60 seconds and are often fired in 2 - 3's.

Wagga is an army training area, especially in 1991.

You get some amazing patterns.

[Captain Gidday]

This thread will probably now get longer than Alan's Not Happy, but have you ever thought what might happen if even a tiny bit of incoming debris, natural or man made, impacted your thin aluminium tube at altitude?
Sends shivers up and down your spine, if you stop to think about it.
Probably better not to stop to think about it.

[500N]

Do a google search on space shuttle debris collision.

Some doozy photos of holes in skin and nice dent, star in windscreen - from a fleck of paint :rolleyes:

[compressor stall]

but have you ever thought what might happen if even a tiny bit of incoming debris, natural or man made, impacted your thin aluminium tube at altitude?

Not really as the odds are spectacularly low. Like really really low. The odds of impacting incoming debris in the collective shape of another aircraft is orders of magnitude larger. Only one person has been hit by a meteorite as it came through her roof as she lay in bed - although I think a dog was killed by one back in the 50's.

Most meteoroids (and space junk) burn up by the time they get anywhere near the stratosphere. On the Space Station, however, 430km up they have installed shields to protect against the very real risk of depressurisation due to meteoroid impact.

[le Pingouin]

CaptG, ask yourself where all the buildings full of holes from meteorite impact are. By the time most meteors/space junk that survives to reach the lower atmosphere (such as where aircraft fly) they are at terminal velocity so a small piece won't be carrying a huge amount of energy. Would a 5mm rock travelling at 200kph penetrate an aircraft skin?

[ruddman]

Would a 5mm rock travelling at 200kph penetrate an aircraft skin?


Who wants to find out? Maybe all jet aircraft need to have mattresses taped to them just in case. :8


They also say there is more chance of being killed by a donkey then killed by being in an aircraft accident. :confused:

My luck the flight would go perfectly fine, touch down smoothly then hit the damn donkey on the runway taking me out in the ensuring fireball. :{

[Avgas172]

So the moral of the story is stay away from someone's ass on the runway .... :}

[Captain Gidday]

Would a 5mm rock travelling at 200kph penetrate an aircraft skin?
Probably not.
Would a 5mm rock coming in head on with a closing speed of nearly 1100 km/hr penetrate an aircraft skin?
I suspect it would.

[aroa]

ouch !

Jumbo at 1000 kph meets rock at 200 kph,....I reckon it might put more than just a dent in the Jumbo skin !!! :eek:

[Hydromet]

500N
Sightings (at night) were reported from a large parts of western NSW and Victoria. All the objects were on parallel straight tracks, and were later reported to be either a meteorite breaking up or space junk. They travelled at a uniform velocity, and I watched them through an arc of at least 90 deg. I estimated their max. altitude angle at about 60-80 deg.

Definitely not flares. As I say, at first I thought they may have been RAAF from Forest Hill.

[le Pingouin]

The rock would be falling straight down by this stage so would be far more likely to hit the aircraft on an upper surface than the nose or leading edges. How much damage does hail do? The 5mm meteorite would weigh about as much as a 10mm hailstone.

[le Pingouin]

Hydromet, given it was seen over a very wide area would mean it was high. Probably something like 100km up. The sound would take around 5 minutes to reach the ground. One possibility is the plasma trail produced by the meteor/space junk can emit radio waves which can induce vibrations in objects on the ground so you may have heard that. Of course it might just have been a totally unrelated sound.

[Capn Bloggs]

The rock would be falling straight down by this stage so would be far more likely to hit the aircraft on an upper surface than the nose or leading edges.
Arrr, the old falling down trick. Shine your torch out the window when doing 450TAS when it's raining: she's coming straight at you, horizontally (plus or minus a few degrees). ;)

[Pinky the pilot]

I have no idea if the following is correct; but I was once told by someone who appeared to know what they were talking about saying that meteors/meteorites generally burn with a white light whilst space junk quite often has a colour (mainly green but occasionally red, yellow or purple) to it because of the various alloys used in construction of whatever it is that is re-entering the atmosphere.

I am quite sure that there is a ppruner who could confirm, deny or expand on this with some authority.:ok:

[le Pingouin]

Rain is falling at maybe 1/10th the speed of the meteor so what you say is true for rain. For said meteor it's travelling downwards at about 25% of the forward speed of the aircraft, so unless you're flying an aircraft with a very fat wing and short fuselage it's more likely to hit the top than the front.

[Hydromet]

Thanks, leP. I suspect that what I heard was ambient white noise (wind, etc) which I hadn't noticed until I started listening.

[le Pingouin]

Pinky, for both meteors and space junk it's all to do with their composition. Most meteors (85%) are stony, so are composed of a mix of elements meaning you don't get a particular colour standing out. For space junk you have large pieces of specific materials so will get the colours characteristic of whichever element is being vaporised at the time.

[compressor stall]

le Pingouin is on the money. It's all about the composition. Small fast meteors (aka shooting stars) generally appear single colour. The most common flash is white - probably for a couple of reasons including the fact that they appear and disappear so quickly, and they are usually not in the centre of the eye where your colour vision is the most sensitive.

For more persistent meteors colours are commonly reported, but generally a uniform colour, depending on the concentration of the predominant metal. Nickel gives off a green tinge - there was a large green meteor crossing the northern sky in Melbourne about 6 years ago that got a similar amount of media attention.

The speed of the meteor might also influence its colour hue, as a slower meteor might not vapourise the metals simultaneously (or at all).

I've seen random falling space junk before - once even in daylight. The multi coloured sparks trailing off it (rather than a vapourised tail) were quite spectacular, but a more homogenous metal structure would not be as colourful.

There are also many reports of an instantaneous sound being emitted from large meteors. Not the delayed sonic booms as the news footage from the Russian one last year showed, but an actual sound being heard whilst watching it - usually likened to a frying pan sizzle. Nothing's proven, but clearly can't be sound waves due to the distance and light/sound speed difference, so the likely candidates are a type of VLF radio wave (travels at the speed of light) that's interacting with the inner ear somehow. I've never heard it though (but don't doubt some can).

As an unrelated tidbit, Chris Hadfield (the Canadian musician/astronaut of Bowie remake fame) mentioned in his book that as you drift off to sleep in space, sometimes you see little flashes of light faintly with your eyes closed. These are solar radiation particles hitting your optic nerve and triggering a sight sensation in the brain. We terrestrial dwellers don't see them as we live under more of the magnetic field that protects us.

For those in the flight deck on red eyes - you are more likely to see a meteor in the pre dawn night sky, as that's the leading edge of the earth and more likely to run into objects. For a meteor to happen at dusk, it's got to catch up to the earth (or be sucked into a decaying orbit). On those Perth Sydney red eyes, dim the cockpit lights, lean over the glareshield and stare outside. Magic.

[Brian Abraham]

Jumbo at 1000 kph meets rock at 200 kph,....I reckon it might put more than just a dent in the Jumbo skin !!!I reckon

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0611/peekskill_thomas.jpg

APOD: 2006 November 19 - The Car, the Hole, and the Peekskill Meteorite (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap061119.html)

And another

http://www.buzzfeed.com/austinhunt/a-meteor-almost-hit-a-skydiver-and-it-was-caught-on-video

[compressor stall]

That meteor vs parachutist was finally thought to be a rock that had been stuck in there since the last landing and dropped out again after the chute opened.

[Brian Abraham]

CS, I'm afraid that suggestion would have been tongue in cheek.

[aroa]

Biggish meteorite down in Cape York some years ago left a vapour trail and a sonic boom. So said the mustering cowboy. Or was it his horse having a stomach rumble?
For an object to do that there must have been a sizeable piece left to interact with the atmosphere.
Altho folk hunted along the noted line of fall, nothing found. Probably ended up in the Gulf or West Irian or ???

[aroa]

ABC Catalyst 8pm Thursday About Meteorites :ok:

[Cactusjack]

A couple of punters who have joined the meteor club;

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CRE5EiaBlk8

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-NLBtZKx2cA

[Pinky the pilot]

Ah yes, Cactusjack; Wonder how much her Lawyers are demanding?:* And from whom?

[Gate_15L]

I've heard that "sizzle" on multiple occasions watching multiple meteoroids burn up. It really does sound exactly like a sizzle...